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Military propaganda losing us respect in Afghanistan?





JoryRFerrell
American soldier possibly feigning sorrow and pissing off "fellow" Afghans?

Do you think this guy is faking? The Afghans certainly look pissed off don't they? Do you think pretending to care about people who have just died a violent death actually harms our foreign relations with the very people we need on our side?
johans
every game has its own strategies.

Strategies keeps you going, keeps you winning and give you a moral on your communities in fighting there own believes.

War is also a business. In fact, i have seen reports that it is a huge business. I have this ideas in Iraq vs. United States before and reported by CNN.

I am not sure how it really works but it is also a strategies and business.
JoryRFerrell
johans wrote:
every game has its own strategies.

Strategies keeps you going, keeps you winning and give you a moral on your communities in fighting there own believes.

War is also a business. In fact, i have seen reports that it is a huge business. I have this ideas in Iraq vs. United States before and reported by CNN.

I am not sure how it really works but it is also a strategies and business.


Well....considering strategies, don't you think it's bad strategy and business to pretend to care when people clearly understand you don't? Is it going to lose us the war in Afghanistan if these folks go around talking about how some American pretended to care about one of their own in order to serve a political agenda (i.e. winning the war)? Considering that aspect of this situation, isn't this bad strategy?

BTW....would it be "strategy and business" if a country lied to your family about caring that you were killed in action, simply to serve their own interests? Noooo...that's not business and strategy is it? That is more like a very, very serious and personal insult to your family. We shouldn't forget that Middle Easterners aren't stupid. Thinking this is a viable strategy for winning over Afghans is, for them, insulting in and of itself when they figure it out. That is just bad business if you ask me.
coolclay
I don't see how that photo shows anything that you seem to think it portrays. You don't think it is a normal human reaction to be emotional when someone dies? Is there a story behind the photo I am missing?

I think most human beings, particularly soldiers, who see large amounts of wanton death and destruction take the death of a fellow comrade or anyone for the matter extremely hard. I know I would.
JoryRFerrell
coolclay wrote:
I don't see how that photo shows anything that you seem to think it portrays. You don't think it is a normal human reaction to be emotional when someone dies? Is there a story behind the photo I am missing?

I think most human beings, particularly soldiers, who see large amounts of wanton death and destruction take the death of a fellow comrade or anyone for the matter extremely hard. I know I would.


Do you know what an angry/pissed off face looks like? I do. Those guys don't look to happy at that moment, and the way they are staring at that soldier seems to indicate they feel a little....disdain...for him. Well...maybe annoyance would be slightly more realistic. Would you agree that our country does use propaganda at least some of the time to win people over who we don't necessarily like?
kaysch
coolclay wrote:
I don't see how that photo shows anything that you seem to think it portrays. You don't think it is a normal human reaction to be emotional when someone dies? Is there a story behind the photo I am missing?


I agree. Without any additional information the photo just shows nothing at all. A soldier bent over with his head buried, and some Afghans looking at him. A gesture, nothing more. Where was this picture taken and what was the context?
jmraker
A google image search found 16 uses of the photo from 2012
http://barberton.ohio.com/news/kelvington-brothers-at-military-academies-on-9-11-eleven-years-later-still-serving-1.333407
Quote:
Reuters photographer Shamil Zhumatov took a photograph of a grieving Kelvington near the body of his Afghan friend on May 25.

In May 2012, U.S. Army Captain Michael Kelvington, commander of the Battle company, 1-508 Parachute Infantry battalion, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division, bows next to remains of Gulam Dostager, a member of Afghan Local Police who was killed in an IED blast in southern Afghanistan. Kelvington, an Army Ranger, is completing his fifth combat tour. (Shamil Zhumatov/Reuters)


This story mentions the faces of the others.
http://woundedtimes.blogspot.com/2012/05/afghans-stunned-as-us-army-captain.html

How is the photo an example of propaganda?
Quote:
a form of communication aimed towards influencing the attitude of the community toward some cause or position by presenting only one side of an argument
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

Did they drop thousands of copies of the photo from planes onto remote villages?
Is it tacked onto walls in towns with various unrelated slogans attached?
Was the photo used by the military to represent how much the military cares?
Is there an audio clip to it where the solder says something like "Join the navy" backwards
Is there more to the picture where off to the side there was someone telling him what to do, like "Ok, kneel down and pretend to care, that's it, we're almost fooling them"
coolclay
While I am admittedly very poor at judging feelings by facial expressions, I just don't see it.

The biggest part of battling extremism is a campaign for hearts and minds. So yes I am sure that we do everything we can do to make sure that we win over as many people as we can, and show them that we actually do care.
moncong
war is really not good, just wasting money and suffering many people..
JoryRFerrell
jmraker wrote:
A google image search found 16 uses of the photo from 2012
http://barberton.ohio.com/news/kelvington-brothers-at-military-academies-on-9-11-eleven-years-later-still-serving-1.333407
Quote:
Reuters photographer Shamil Zhumatov took a photograph of a grieving Kelvington near the body of his Afghan friend on May 25.

In May 2012, U.S. Army Captain Michael Kelvington, commander of the Battle company, 1-508 Parachute Infantry battalion, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division, bows next to remains of Gulam Dostager, a member of Afghan Local Police who was killed in an IED blast in southern Afghanistan. Kelvington, an Army Ranger, is completing his fifth combat tour. (Shamil Zhumatov/Reuters)


This story mentions the faces of the others.
http://woundedtimes.blogspot.com/2012/05/afghans-stunned-as-us-army-captain.html

How is the photo an example of propaganda?
Quote:
a form of communication aimed towards influencing the attitude of the community toward some cause or position by presenting only one side of an argument
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

Did they drop thousands of copies of the photo from planes onto remote villages?
Is it tacked onto walls in towns with various unrelated slogans attached?
Was the photo used by the military to represent how much the military cares?
Is there an audio clip to it where the solder says something like "Join the navy" backwards
Is there more to the picture where off to the side there was someone telling him what to do, like "Ok, kneel down and pretend to care, that's it, we're almost fooling them"


No, they did not tack it up in Afghan cities, as far as I know. However, they did put it in news article to influence American readers who are on the anti-war side (or riding the fence). It works to make it seem as if our presence is about compassion and rainbows, or to at least make Americans think to themselves that, "hey, our presence ain't all that bad". But if we truly cared about Afghan lives enough to cry about one being lost, why would we not avoid dropping bombs in their cities and villages? Why wouldn't we avoid firing hellfire missiles on weddings? In the end, failure to avoid murdering innocent people, who did not need to die, is the exact opposite of compassion.

If I am murdering people, even if supposedly unintentionally harming innocents, would it be in my best interests to put out propaganda that I am their to help people by flooding the media with photo's of our soldiers bowing their heads over their dead "friends"? It would if I wanted to avoid the issues experienced during the Vietnam war that caused a huge domestic uproar.
jmraker
JoryRFerrell wrote:
jmraker wrote:

Quote:
Reuters photographer Shamil Zhumatov took a photograph of a grieving Kelvington near the body of his Afghan friend on May 25.

In May 2012, U.S. Army Captain Michael Kelvington, commander of the Battle company, 1-508 Parachute Infantry battalion, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division, bows next to remains of Gulam Dostager, a member of Afghan Local Police who was killed in an IED blast in southern Afghanistan. Kelvington, an Army Ranger, is completing his fifth combat tour. (Shamil Zhumatov/Reuters)




If I am murdering people, even if supposedly unintentionally harming innocents


The photo is of Gulam Dostager's grave, a member of Afghan Local Police who was killed in an IED blast in southern Afghanistan

You still seem to think the American troops were responsible for the Police offer's death.

Do you have any proof or knowledge that American troops are or were booby trapping the Afghan country with Improvised Explosive Devices?

Was U.S. Army Captain Michael Kelvington supposed to blow the grave up (of his inconceivable friend) because America dropped some bombs in the country earlier (to be consistent)?
JoryRFerrell
jmraker wrote:
JoryRFerrell wrote:
jmraker wrote:

Quote:
Reuters photographer Shamil Zhumatov took a photograph of a grieving Kelvington near the body of his Afghan friend on May 25.

In May 2012, U.S. Army Captain Michael Kelvington, commander of the Battle company, 1-508 Parachute Infantry battalion, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division, bows next to remains of Gulam Dostager, a member of Afghan Local Police who was killed in an IED blast in southern Afghanistan. Kelvington, an Army Ranger, is completing his fifth combat tour. (Shamil Zhumatov/Reuters)




If I am murdering people, even if supposedly unintentionally harming innocents


The photo is of Gulam Dostager's grave, a member of Afghan Local Police who was killed in an IED blast in southern Afghanistan

You still seem to think the American troops were responsible for the Police offer's death.

Do you have any proof or knowledge that American troops are or were booby trapping the Afghan country with Improvised Explosive Devices?

Was U.S. Army Captain Michael Kelvington supposed to blow the grave up (of his inconceivable friend) because America dropped some bombs in the country earlier (to be consistent)?


When the hell did I ever accuse the military of causing HIS death? I never said that. What I am saying is that the US officer is feigning sadness over his lost comrade, there-by looking like a manipulative jerk in front of all that late Afghans buddies...
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