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Atheism is not a religion





loremar
Atheism is religion? Do you realize how stupid this is?

There's this ridiculous logic that if atheists gather on sundays and sing atheist songs and then an atheist preacher stands in front and makes a sermon about how a certain religion's teachings is wrong, teaches about the doctrine of the great prophet Richard Dawkins, and then feeds everyone the holy atheist eucharist then atheism is religion. And this is already the closest scenario you can get to make it seem like a religion. Even if said group of atheists are able to establish religious beliefs, still atheism is FAR from being a religion. It could be a part of requirements of their religion but a religion must have at least religious beliefs. Atheism is not a religious belief. On contrary, it is the opposite of religious belief which is belief in god. And also religious beliefs intends to explain the origin of the universe, spiritual enlightenment, etc. etc. Not believing in god has none of that purpose. Its basically only says that I don't accept that explanation or some may reject it completely. So even if you say it's a belief, it's not a religious belief nonetheless. I could look for other explanation from other sources but that is the point where you stop referencing atheism don't you think?

Of course you see blogs, youtube channels, and other social media outlets with the word "atheism" on the header, with contents that are anti-religious and some referencing to their favorite atheists and then some have their own atheist community groups. Does that make atheism religion? If instead of atheists, it was cannibals doing all of these, does that make cannibalism a religion when all that cannibalism means is eating human flesh? Of course not. It's possible to make it part of religion, say eating humans for salvation but it's not a religion itself. I guess you could name your religion as "Atheism". But can you? A member of that religion would be called atheist. Remember, a religion must have religious beliefs. I'm an atheist who does not have a religious belief but then there's religion called atheism that I'm not a member of. With the possibility of me being mistakenly referenced with this people, you can't be that insensitive right?

And then there's also this false thinking that when you talk about religious topics extensively to the point that you sound like a preacher yourself, then you must also be a religious person too. Analogy: if I talk about a certain conspiracy theory and how ridiculous it is, does that make me a conspiracy theorist? Likewise I can be a non-religious person who talks about the bible, the quran, etc. I might tell you about my interpretation of the bible or a conspiracy theory to the point that I might sound like I'm teaching it to you, but still i'm not a religious person or a conspiracy theorist. The key point here is the meaning of religious belief. Ignoring that, I can see why it's easy for people to mistakenly call anyone being religious.
Bluedoll
I agree atheism does not emulate other worldly religions. I canít find an atheist church in a phone book but that doesnít mean it is not being religious in its' nature. If we are hung up on the word religion then lets look at this from a religious point of view.

What does it take to be religious? I donít go to church. Iím not registered with an organized religion as a member. Does this mean that Iím not religious? Sure go ahead and call out stupid. Stupid is what stupid does.

In reality, I have more do with religious topics here in atheistsville than anywhere else. If I look at sources for definitions on atheism, I also ask myself where are they coming from. Most are coming from atheists themselves. Why is it that only atheists can define atheism and no one else? Everyone else is stupid I guess.

I think Iíve written enough in this forum that explains my viewpoint on atheism. It is viewpoint because the fact is I could be wrong. I am not perfect and a human being but when the bible tells me what atheism is, I listen, because for me the bible has more trustworthiness because of the source. My interpretation of the bible could be faulty but in this case I might be right too.

I do think atheism is responsible for a lot of misinformation about religious subjects because that is what atheism does. It talks about religious topics, yes indeed. It also teaches its views about religious topics and when they become convincing arguments it is preaching a belief. Though I will agree there are different methods employed in the preaching arena in reference to religious topics like for example does God exist.

I like your analogy. If you are into conspiracies, you may not consider yourself a conspiracy theorist but are you not a conspiracy hobbyist and fueling the fire for conspiracies and so part of that group of conspiracy hunters? Sounds like an average churchgoer to me looking for truth.
loremar
Bluedoll wrote:
What does it take to be religious?

Religious belief. You have religious beliefs therefore you are a religious person. Atheism of a person doesn't tell you if he has religious belief. Hence he could be religious or not, though other things outside atheism may tell you if he is or not. Since atheism doesn't make one religious but only other things outside atheism, and religion certainly makes one religious therefore atheism is not religion.
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Why is it that only atheists can define atheism and no one else?

Ah, so you should be the only one to define it then? We're suppose to accept your definition no matter what? You're saying you can't accept our definition but I certainly don't see why that logic doesn't apply to your definition. Atheism is the lack of belief in gods. That is the "conventional" definition. I don't see why anyone would say atheism is not the lack of belief in gods. And that is why I'm trying to correct you because your definition don't apply to every atheists. The moment you start to say atheism is "not just" then you're going to step over every single atheist who doesn't fit in with whatever the rest you are going to say. That is just going to be outright reckless stereotyping.
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It also teaches its views about religious topics and when they become convincing arguments it is preaching a belief.

But not religious belief. Of course it is a belief centered on religious topics but the belief itself is not religious as in myths about the universe, spiritual enlightenment, etc. You get what I mean?

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I like your analogy. If you are into conspiracies, you may not consider yourself a conspiracy theorist but are you not a conspiracy hobbyist and fueling the fire for conspiracies and so part of that group of conspiracy hunters? Sounds like an average churchgoer to me looking for truth.

Well I'm glad you don't disagree with my analogy. So, if a person has spent so much time studying religion, does that mean he is religious? Like you said a person who is into conspiracies is a conspiracy hobbyist. So a person who is into religion must be a religious studies hobbyist? But not necessarily religious.
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Sounds like an average churchgoer to me looking for truth.

But is he a religious person?

Considering all the things I've said, I'll finally ask you this hoping that you won't bring this up in the future again. So, is atheism a religion? Is an atheist a religious person?(note:if atheism is a religion then an atheist is a religious person) You've always said that everyone believes in something, does this something have to be a religious belief?
watersoul
loremar wrote:
Atheism is the lack of belief in gods. That is the "conventional" definition. I don't see why anyone would say atheism is not the lack of belief in gods.
The faith of some theists, being a strongly held belief in a deity which one cannot see, touch, smell, hear or provide any evidence to support it, is easily reasoned to be illogical.

I am of the opinion that the theists who are so desperate to attach 'faith' to a lack of belief are aware of this flaw in logic and make this claim in an attempt to brand atheists as 'the same as them'.
"You can't say anything about my faith because you equally have faith in science" or whatever ridiculous argument they may have.
It is a pretty lame argument to label atheists in general though, and while annoying when it goes off topic in a thread I may have authored myself, it is certainly amusing to read the ideas of 'logic' some people here have.

Good luck with this topic loremar, some theists will be like a dog with a bone about this and simply not give up, even when they basically have only their own personal faith and belief to support their claims Laughing
deanhills
OK here's what I think. Atheism is not a religion, nor is theism a religion. However, an atheist or a theist can be religious. Most theists are religious, and some atheists are religious, if one defines religion as below, which is the closest to how I see religion:

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Religion is a way of valuing that which is most comprehensively and intensively experienced

Source: Frederick Ferre in Basic Modern Philosophy of Religion.

I also agree with this working definition of religion:
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In defining the word "religion" for a study which examines many different phenomena or traditions, we have to be careful to define it so it does not unnecessarily or mistakenly exclude some particular thing that should be included or some particular aspect or characteristic that ought to be included. For example, if we were to define ďreligionĒ in terms of ďbelief in God,Ē we might end up excluding ďBuddhism.Ē That would go against common sense. We want to have a definition which will enable us:

1. to deal with any religious phenomena regardless of their particular characteristics;
2. to describe ďreligionĒ generally enough to enable us to determine whether we want to call some particular set of phenomena "religion" or not.

Source

For me it is about the steps/pathway to that which is most valued, such as perhaps a belief in God, or lack of belief in God, a belief in a leader, a belief in an "exclusive" truth or meaning of life, etc. And to me those steps/rituals/pathways are always created as "a means to" and always created by man. A theist may not necessarily be religious, i.e. attend a church, read the Bible, follow set steps such as church going Christians do for example. Some atheists, like Buddhists and the Hindi do follow set steps/pathway along the lines of the definition of "most comprehensively and intensively experienced", so I would class them as atheists who are religious.
Pippo90
Atheism is not a religion at all. Who likes to "spread the word" or do some random stuff to celebrate its atheism wants just to show off, since atheism is considered to be cool nowadays in certain environments. I'm atheist as well, but I would never celebrate my "faith".
deanhills
Pippo90 wrote:
Who likes to "spread the word" or do some random stuff to celebrate its atheism wants just to show off, since atheism is considered to be cool nowadays in certain environments.
Totally agreed that atheism is not a religion. Even those who are aggressively atheist and spreading the word "to be cool" as you pointed out, wouldn't fit into my definition of religion. That would be more like promoting atheism. Atheism and religion are two entirely different things, as are theism and religion. Most theists are religious, and some atheists, like the Hindi and Buddhists are religious.
Bluedoll
I just want to make one more comment in this thread and then I will leave this thread alone. It is a personal comment about something that Iíve noticed over time in this forum in general.

I have my beliefs and my opinions. Opinions can change from time to time but I feel it is my God given right and in many cases my right as human being not to be ridiculed for simply having a religious belief.

Look, when it comes to my religious beliefs I donít have to comply with anyoneís understanding of religious ideas here thesis, athiest or otherwise! Watersoul, it is very obvious you are talking about me when you say I will be like a dog with a bone but Mr it is my right to stick to my religious beliefs. And if a religious belief includes how I recognize atheism then I can believe what the bible says about it and do not have to change anything to anyone elseís liking.

Loremar, what I read in your post it is reasonable but donít agree with all it. To ask me not to bring this up in the future again is asking me to put restrictions on my belief and I am sorry I can not do that. It is my religious belief and I have a right to express myself in this universe. So I think your request is not the right thing to do. You started this thread so I will not come to it anymore but I want you to consider why I am saying this.

Given the time Iíve spent on this forum I do notice that there are some people that will accept someone having a different belief and it is not a problem for them. I think Deanhills is one of them. I am more than sure that I do not agree with everything he writes but if I disagree with him I do not think he will stoop to replying to a post Ė please donít write that anymore. The answer is no. I am free and I will write what I want. If not here somewhere else.
loremar
Bluedoll wrote:
To ask me not to bring this up in the future again is asking me to put restrictions on my belief and I am sorry I can not do that. It is my religious belief...

Is atheism a religion? Is an atheist a religious person? All you really have to say is yes or no. If you said no then there is no reason for you to bring this up again in the future unless there's something new you want to say. Why repeat such nonsense? That's all what I'm trying to say.
If your answer is yes, your reason is? And more importantly, does this apply to every atheist in this world? Remember, if atheism is religion, then any person who subscribes to atheism is religious which means not a single atheist will be an exception.
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And if a religious belief includes how I recognize atheism then I can believe what the bible says about it and do not have to change anything to anyone elseís liking.

Where in the bible did it says atheists are religious?
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I do not think he will stoop to replying to a post Ė please donít write that anymore. The answer is no. I am free and I will write what I want. If not here somewhere else.

But it'd really be annoying to see that you agree that it's nonsense and then later you're still repeating the same nonsense again and again.
sudipbanerjee
As per I know Atheism doesn't believe the existence of deities. Then how does it relate with religion?
redhakaw
loremar wrote:
Atheism is religion? Do you realize how stupid this is?


yes, it is moronic to say that atheism is a religion

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There's this ridiculous logic that if atheists gather on sundays and sing atheist songs and then an atheist preacher stands in front and makes a sermon about how a certain religion's teachings is wrong, teaches about the doctrine of the great prophet Richard Dawkins, and then feeds everyone the holy atheist eucharist then atheism is religion.


no, this is not ridiculous, it is in fact correct to assume, that this group of atheists is practicing a religion.

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Atheism is not a religious belief.


yes, that is indeed correct, BUT atheists CAN choose to have religious beliefs.

They can even choose to practice faith, establish dogmas and enforce distinctive beliefs, AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD.


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On contrary, it is the opposite of religious belief which is belief in god.


this is your blatant mistake. religious beliefs does not necessary include belief in God.

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And also religious beliefs intends to explain the origin of the universe, spiritual enlightenment, etc. etc. Not believing in god has none of that purpose.


explaining the origin of the universe as well as any spiritual enlightenment are not mutually exclusive to atheism.

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And then there's also this false thinking that when you talk about religious topics extensively to the point that you sound like a preacher yourself, then you must also be a religious person too.


yes, the term "extensive" has a religious connotation already

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Analogy: if I talk about a certain conspiracy theory and how ridiculous it is, does that make me a conspiracy theorist? Likewise I can be a non-religious person who talks about the bible, the quran, etc. I might tell you about my interpretation of the bible or a conspiracy theory to the point that I might sound like I'm teaching it to you, but still i'm not a religious person or a conspiracy theorist. The key point here is the meaning of religious belief. Ignoring that, I can see why it's easy for people to mistakenly call anyone being religious.


You are not a conspiracy theorist, if you do not CREATE any such theories
You are a non-religious person, if you do not practice any religion.

whether you talk for or against religion or not has nothing to do to whether you are a religious person or not.

I talk about how should the country be led, what directions the country should move, and who the cabinet members should be, but that does not make me the president, no?
loremar
Strawman. -_-

redhakaw wrote:
yes, it is moronic to say that atheism is a religion

Of course.
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There's this ridiculous logic that if atheists gather on sundays and sing atheist songs and then an atheist preacher stands in front and makes a sermon about how a certain religion's teachings is wrong, teaches about the doctrine of the great prophet Richard Dawkins, and then feeds everyone the holy atheist eucharist then atheism is religion.

no, this is not ridiculous, it is in fact correct to assume, that this group of atheists is practicing a religion.

Yes it is. Because some atheists practicing religion doesn't make atheism a religion. That was exactly my point. You might not know but a lot of people and some frihost posters believe that atheism is a religion because of such reason. That's why i'm posting this.
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yes, that is indeed correct, BUT atheists CAN choose to have religious beliefs.

They can even choose to practice faith, establish dogmas and enforce distinctive beliefs, AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD.

I never said atheists don't have religious beliefs. If you have to point that out, then I have to point that out as well. But this thread is about atheism being not a religion.
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On contrary, it is the opposite of religious belief which is belief in god.

this is your blatant mistake. religious beliefs does not necessary include belief in God.

Uhm last time I check belief in god is a religious belief. Explains about the universe and primarily held by faith. Or perhaps you're talking about a pantheistic god? God=Nature/Universe. Therefore atheists don't believe in nature/universe? That's stupid. Of course we're obviously not talking about that kind of god in this context of "belief in god". If that was the case then the word atheism is ridiculous. Hell, God is a chair for all I know.Rolling Eyes
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And also religious beliefs intends to explain the origin of the universe, spiritual enlightenment, etc. etc. Not believing in god has none of that purpose.

explaining the origin of the universe as well as any spiritual enlightenment are not mutually exclusive to atheism.

If you mean by not mutually exclusive as in an atheist can subscribe to both then yes. "Not believing" ITSELF makes no such purpose. Remember, we're not referring to the person here. And I explicitly said above that atheists can have religious beliefs but still atheism is far from being a religion. It's the exact opposite of saying "An atheist can't have religious beliefs". My point was atheism by itself makes none of those intentions but rather states about not accepting. You only make such things beyond atheism. If you think that I think atheists are NOT religious then no, I don't.
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yes, the term "extensive" has a religious connotation already

I don't understand what you mean by this. My point there was like for example talking about the bible or even explaining about your interpretation doesn't make you religious.
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You are not a conspiracy theorist, if you do not CREATE any such theories
You are a non-religious person, if you do not practice any religion.

I was making that analogy in the context of "preaching", you know? -_- You're not religious just because you discuss religion. That was the point. Hence the analogy: Talking about conspiracy theory does not make you a conspiracy theorist. I never said that you are a non-religious person if you do not talk about religion.
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whether you talk for or against religion or not has nothing to do to whether you are a religious person or not.

Did I ever said that not talking about religion makes you a non-religious person? In fact that was the whole point of what I'm saying. Just talking about religion has nothing to do with being religious or not. But some people insist that when you spent half of your life studying the bible and explain your interpretations then you're being religious yourself. That was why I'm making that point. You're totally misinterpreting what I said. I don't even know why you interpreted it that way when in contrary I even said:
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Likewise I can be a non-religious person who talks about the bible, the quran, etc.

Make me suspect you're deliberately doing that to make your own strawman?

Or am I just jumping into conclusions about you making such replies because you have those intrepretations of what I said?
redhakaw
loremar wrote:
Strawman. -_-

redhakaw wrote:
yes, it is moronic to say that atheism is a religion

Of course.
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There's this ridiculous logic that if atheists gather on sundays and sing atheist songs and then an atheist preacher stands in front and makes a sermon about how a certain religion's teachings is wrong, teaches about the doctrine of the great prophet Richard Dawkins, and then feeds everyone the holy atheist eucharist then atheism is religion.

no, this is not ridiculous, it is in fact correct to assume, that this group of atheists is practicing a religion.

Yes it is. Because some atheists practicing religion doesn't make atheism a religion. That was exactly my point. You might not know but a lot of people and some frihost posters believe that atheism is a religion because of such reason. That's why i'm posting this.


I think we are not on the same line here.
What I said is that these atheists is correctly assumed to be practicing religion, BUT I did not say that THAT religion is atheism. A religion does not require a name, it's simply a routine practice usually accompanied but not necessarily by rituals, with the purpose of making man good or better.

atheism is not a religion, I have been very clear with that, what you miss is the possibility or the ability of atheists to practice a religion.

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yes, that is indeed correct, BUT atheists CAN choose to have religious beliefs.

They can even choose to practice faith, establish dogmas and enforce distinctive beliefs, AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD.

I never said atheists don't have religious beliefs. If you have to point that out, then I have to point that out as well. But this thread is about atheism being not a religion.


good, it just gives me the jitters when you said that atheism is opposite to religious beliefs, because they just don't have any relation.

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On contrary, it is the opposite of religious belief which is belief in god.

this is your blatant mistake. religious beliefs does not necessary include belief in God.


Uhm last time I check belief in god is a religious belief.


belief in God, is a belief

religious belief in God, is a religious belief.

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Explains about the universe and primarily held by faith. Or perhaps you're talking about a pantheistic god? God=Nature/Universe. Therefore atheists don't believe in nature/universe? That's stupid. Of course we're obviously not talking about that kind of god in this context of "belief in god". If that was the case then the word atheism is ridiculous. Hell, God is a chair for all I know.Rolling Eyes


no, I am not talking about pantheists.
atheists can't be pantheists.

FYI, most pantheists do not hold any religious belief

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And also religious beliefs intends to explain the origin of the universe, spiritual enlightenment, etc. etc. Not believing in god has none of that purpose.

explaining the origin of the universe as well as any spiritual enlightenment are not mutually exclusive to atheism.

If you mean by not mutually exclusive as in an atheist can subscribe to both then yes. "Not believing" ITSELF makes no such purpose. Remember, we're not referring to the person here. And I explicitly said above that atheists can have religious beliefs but still atheism is far from being a religion. It's the exact opposite of saying "An atheist can't have religious beliefs". My point was atheism by itself makes none of those intentions but rather states about not accepting. You only make such things beyond atheism. If you think that I think atheists are NOT religious then no, I don't.


good.

the atheist richard dawkins is a religious person, indeed.

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yes, the term "extensive" has a religious connotation already

I don't understand what you mean by this. My point there was like for example talking about the bible or even explaining about your interpretation doesn't make you religious.


posting in forums when free during work is acceptable
but if you are posting for the whole day, prioritizing the forums, extensively reading all topics, well, that can already be a religion to you.

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You are not a conspiracy theorist, if you do not CREATE any such theories
You are a non-religious person, if you do not practice any religion.

I was making that analogy in the context of "preaching", you know? -_- You're not religious just because you discuss religion. That was the point.


you are not necessarily talkative if you talk about talkative
but if you talk about talkative all the time, then you are talkative.

You're not religious just because you discuss religion
but if you religiously talk about religion, then you are a religious person.

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whether you talk for or against religion or not has nothing to do to whether you are a religious person or not.

Did I ever said that not talking about religion makes you a non-religious person? In fact that was the whole point of what I'm saying. Just talking about religion has nothing to do with being religious or not.


ok

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But some people insist that when you spent half of your life studying the bible and explain your interpretations then you're being religious yourself.


NOT ok.

This is what I am trying to say earlier, that it is correct to assume that a person who spends half of his life studying the Bible is a religious person, whether atheist or christian.

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That was why I'm making that point. You're totally misinterpreting what I said. I don't even know why you interpreted it that way when in contrary I even said:
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Likewise I can be a non-religious person who talks about the bible, the quran, etc.

Make me suspect you're deliberately doing that to make your own strawman?

Or am I just jumping into conclusions about you making such replies because you have those intrepretations of what I said?


I am just not content about your real intent in your posts. It seems like you are shooting an arrow at a moving target, I find your target switching from atheism to atheists, vice versa, and it makes me suspect that you are either not yet clear about the 2, OR you are trying to hide something between your lines. is all.
loremar
redhakaw wrote:

I think we are not on the same line here.
What I said is that these atheists is correctly assumed to be practicing religion, BUT I did not say that THAT religion is atheism.

Of course we're not on the same line here because you got off tracked on the first place.
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atheism is not a religion, I have been very clear with that, what you miss is the possibility or the ability of atheists to practice a religion.

Lies. I don't even know where in the world you got that assumption about me. In fact I made my point that a religion can have atheists or atheists can have religion and yet atheism is still not a religion.

Seems like you're not really interested with the topic and just want to talk about other issues.

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This is what I am trying to say earlier, that it is correct to assume that a person who spends half of his life studying the Bible is a religious person, whether atheist or christian.

No this is stupid.

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I am just not content about your real intent in your posts.

Don't make assumptions. What I said is what it is. Some people assert that atheism is a religion and of course that also goes to say that an atheist is a religious person. I'm saying that's stupid. And no, I'm not confused between the two. An atheist is someone who subscribes to atheism hence, someone who does not believe in gods.

And for the last time. While I don't agree that atheists are religious that does not mean I agree that atheist's aren't religious. Don't put words int my mouth.
Farmodo
We all think different about it so why make a big deal of it, if people want to believe let them believe. Razz
redhakaw
loremar wrote:

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This is what I am trying to say earlier, that it is correct to assume that a person who spends half of his life studying the Bible is a religious person, whether atheist or christian.

No this is stupid.


I assume you have prepared by now how to explain why it is stupid?


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Don't make assumptions. What I said is what it is. Some people assert that atheism is a religion and of course that also goes to say that an atheist is a religious person. I'm saying that's stupid. And no, I'm not confused between the two. An atheist is someone who subscribes to atheism hence, someone who does not believe in gods.


"An atheist is someone who subscribes to atheism..."

This, mentality, is what makes people confuse as to whether atheism is a religion or not.

I never knew that there is a "subscription" that needs to be done in order to become an atheist.

you just don't believe in God, that's it! no subscriptions, practices, tenets, sunday congregations in order for you to be an atheist.

atheism is a state of belief like autism is a mental state. you don't have to go through a lot of procedures, there is no standard except disbelief in God.

When an atheist starts to develop this state of belief (or disbelief), consistently, procedurally, systematically, and even practically, it falls into a pit of religiosity. I believe that this defect hinges to the fact that most "deconvertees" came from religious backgrounds you can still smell and taste it reeking from 'em.

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And for the last time. While I don't agree that atheists are religious that does not mean I agree that atheist's aren't religious. Don't put words int my mouth.


what do you mean by atheist's[sic] aren't religious and atheist are religious?

that just doesn't make sense!
exactly why I could not find contentment in your seesaw point.
loremar
Yep. Let's pretend for a while that there doesn't exist such a word called "context". Rolling Eyes
Bluedoll
redhakaw wrote:
"An atheist is someone who subscribes to atheism..."

This, mentality, is what makes people confuse as to whether atheism is a religion or not.

I never knew that there is a "subscription" that needs to be done in order to become an atheist.

you just don't believe in God, that's it! no subscriptions, practices, tenets, sunday congregations in order for you to be an atheist.

atheism is a state of belief like autism is a mental state. you don't have to go through a lot of procedures, there is no standard except disbelief in God.
"A theist is someone who subscribes to theism..."

This, mentality, is what makes people confuse as to whether theism is a religion or not.

I never knew that there is a "subscription" that needs to be done in order to become a theist.

you just believe in God, that's it! no subscriptions, practices, tenets, sunday congregations in order for you to be a theist.

theism is a state of belief like autism is a mental state. you don't have to go through a lot of procedures, there is no standard except belief in God.

_________________________________


I donít belong to any registered wordly religion or go through any kind of practice other than to write some stuff online. So I guess that means Iím not religious either.

I believe in God. Praise God.
Very Happy
redhakaw
Bluedoll wrote:
redhakaw wrote:
"An atheist is someone who subscribes to atheism..."

This, mentality, is what makes people confuse as to whether atheism is a religion or not.

I never knew that there is a "subscription" that needs to be done in order to become an atheist.

you just don't believe in God, that's it! no subscriptions, practices, tenets, sunday congregations in order for you to be an atheist.

atheism is a state of belief like autism is a mental state. you don't have to go through a lot of procedures, there is no standard except disbelief in God.
"A theist is someone who subscribes to theism..."

This, mentality, is what makes people confuse as to whether theism is a religion or not.

I never knew that there is a "subscription" that needs to be done in order to become a theist.

you just believe in God, that's it! no subscriptions, practices, tenets, sunday congregations in order for you to be a theist.

theism is a state of belief like autism is a mental state. you don't have to go through a lot of procedures, there is no standard except belief in God.

_________________________________


I donít belong to any registered wordly religion or go through any kind of practice other than to write some stuff online. So I guess that means Iím not religious either.

I believe in God. Praise God.
Very Happy


good for you.

atheists think that the problem is belief in God, when it is religiosity they have a problem with.
and it just gives the irk, when some atheists, whether for mockery or for whatever reason they have, to imitate what religious theists do.

it's already a disaster to have theistic religions, it's just tragedy to have atheistic religions to add to the lot.


to have faith in God is not about DOING something like subscribing, practicing, even worshipping or obedience. It is all about fully depending in God without lifting any finger, that's why it's called faith, faith means you are left with nothing else in your power so you just turn to God. It is a matter of NOT DOING as opposed to DOING. religion is all about DOING something for man's benefit and also DOING something for God (usually but not always).
firmsactingunethically
redhakaw wrote:
atheism is a state of belief like autism is a mental state. you don't have to go through a lot of procedures, there is no standard except disbelief in God.


They are both states, as is, I suppose religion in a sense, but I don't think that addresses whether atheism is a religion. Autism is not a religion, although:
http://www.scn.org/autistics/religion.html

redhakaw wrote:
you just believe in God, that's it!


There are followers of religions who do not believe in a diety. This is less likely in Christianity which is defined (well, one definition) as believing in Jesus as Christ and accepting Jesus as one's personal savior. (or something like that, I may be slightly off.) Judaism certainly does not require belief, and even an Orthodox Jew will acknowledge a non-believing Jew is still a Jew. Islam has "faith" as one of its tenets, but it is unclear whether belief in their dieties (Allah; Mohammad in that people have been described as blaspheming Mohammad). Hindu and Buddhism don't require belief. In Hindu "what is is", etc.

As to the issue, athesim would not be a religion but is a belief. That qualifies it as a religion for US Constitutional purposes in that it is what someone believes, but not for equal recognition of atheist activities. Still, non-diety religions, such as Ethical Culture, are definitely recognized as religions including to a large extent the recognition of their belief systems as entitled to protection under the Establishment Clause (US Constitution).
Klaw 2
Bluedoll wrote:
redhakaw wrote:
"An atheist is someone who subscribes to atheism..."

This, mentality, is what makes people confuse as to whether atheism is a religion or not.

I never knew that there is a "subscription" that needs to be done in order to become an atheist.

you just don't believe in God, that's it! no subscriptions, practices, tenets, sunday congregations in order for you to be an atheist.

atheism is a state of belief like autism is a mental state. you don't have to go through a lot of procedures, there is no standard except disbelief in God.
"A theist is someone who subscribes to theism..."

This, mentality, is what makes people confuse as to whether theism is a religion or not.

I never knew that there is a "subscription" that needs to be done in order to become a theist.

you just believe in God, that's it! no subscriptions, practices, tenets, sunday congregations in order for you to be a theist.

theism is a state of belief like autism is a mental state. you don't have to go through a lot of procedures, there is no standard except belief in God.

_________________________________


I donít belong to any registered wordly religion or go through any kind of practice other than to write some stuff online. So I guess that means Iím not religious either.

I believe in God. Praise God.
Very Happy


And like said before theism isnít a religion, (although almost all theist are religious), if I believe a god exists and do nothing else with that, donít pray, donít read a holy book donít even think about it am I religious? Islam is a religion, the various sects of Christianity are religions.
Atheism isnít a religion, however for example there are religions that donít involve any gods those atheists are religious, for example.

To be a theist you must believe in a god(s)
To be an atheist you mustnít believe in a god(s)
In both cases thatís it.

Then what does make you religious?

From wiki:
ďReligion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to a order of existence.Ē[

Atheism doesnít have any of those and neither does theism. The catholic church has, Protestantism has, Buddhism has etc.etc.etc.

You praise god so you can be called religiousÖ
Klaw 2
firmsactingunethically wrote:
As to the issue, athesim would not be a religion but is a belief. That qualifies it as a religion for US Constitutional purposes in that it is what someone believes, but not for equal recognition of atheist activities. Still, non-diety religions, such as Ethical Culture, are definitely recognized as religions including to a large extent the recognition of their belief systems as entitled to protection under the Establishment Clause (US Constitution).


I have to disagree, a belief is:
Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a conjecture or premise to be true.

Iím an atheist, I donít believe in god, in other words the opposite of holding a conjecture or premise true. Atheism isnít a belief, the same as not collecting stamps isnít a hobby.
firmsactingunethically
Klaw 2 wrote:
firmsactingunethically wrote:
As to the issue, athesim would not be a religion but is a belief. ...


I have to disagree, a belief is:
Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a conjecture or premise to be true.

Iím an atheist, I donít believe in god, in other words the opposite of holding a conjecture or premise true. Atheism isnít a belief, the same as not collecting stamps isnít a hobby.


So how is atheism not a belief? An atheist believes there is no deity. Wouldn't non-belief be agnosticism?

Taking the stamp collecting analogy, I would compare that to not driving, whereas if one could come up with a hobby of not collecting stamps, that would be analogous to avoiding driving rather than simply not driving. (There are people who don't drive and there are people who avoid driving, for example people who live in urban areas or who are unable to obtain a license.) I would say avoiding driving would be more analogous to atheism than not collecting stamps.
Ankhanu
firmsactingunethically wrote:
So how is atheism not a belief? An atheist believes there is no deity. Wouldn't non-belief be agnosticism?

You're conflating different lines of thought.
Theism/atheism is a question of belief/acceptance. Certainty is a different question (the certain/agnostic axis). They're related, but address different concepts.

Atheism is not belief that there is no deity. It is a non-positive response to the question of whether or not one believes in deity. The distinction is almost subtle, but it's important.
Now, some atheists do assert that there are no deities... but that's in addition to the basic question of being an atheist or theist. Many atheists (myself included) simply reject the positive god claims they've encountered, that is NOT an assertion that gods don't exist.

An agnostic is someone who doesn't know... this does not preclude being theist or atheist, it's in addition to being one or the other.
Klaw 2
firmsactingunethically wrote:

So how is atheism not a belief? An atheist believes there is no deity. Wouldn't non-belief be agnosticism?

Taking the stamp collecting analogy, I would compare that to not driving, whereas if one could come up with a hobby of not collecting stamps, that would be analogous to avoiding driving rather than simply not driving. (There are people who don't drive and there are people who avoid driving, for example people who live in urban areas or who are unable to obtain a license.) I would say avoiding driving would be more analogous to atheism than not collecting stamps.


Look atheÔst doesn't mean god denier...
A - not
thiest - someone who believes in god
atheist - not someone who believes in god

An atheist can deny the existance of god or he can be unsure about the existance of god, (but until he has proof doens't)
An agnostic is someone who thinks that the (non)-existance of god can ever be proven...

or as wiki puts it:
"Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claimsóespecially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, as well as other religious and metaphysical claimsóare unknown or unknowable"
GuidanceReader
firmsactingunethically wrote:

So how is atheism not a belief? An atheist believes there is no deity. Wouldn't non-belief be agnosticism?


As agnosticism is the stance that the existence of God can neither be proven or not proven, you can have agnostic theists and agnostic atheists. I, personally, fall into the former title. I do believe in a higher power, but also believe that there is no way (with current means) to prove this belief, and thus accept the high possibility that I could be wrong with my belief in God. I also believe that because it is also impossible to prove that God also doesn't exist, it is my right to make the choice in belief or not.
Klaw 2
GuidanceReader wrote:
I also believe that because it is also impossible to prove that God also doesn't exist


At the risk of looking like a "ant f***er" its the job of theist to prove god exists... proving that something doesn't exist is often very hard or impossible...
JoryRFerrell
loremar wrote:
Atheism is religion? Do you realize how stupid this is?

There's this ridiculous logic that if atheists gather on sundays and sing atheist songs and then an atheist preacher stands in front and makes a sermon about how a certain religion's teachings is wrong, teaches about the doctrine of the great prophet Richard Dawkins, and then feeds everyone the holy atheist eucharist then atheism is religion. And this is already the closest scenario you can get to make it seem like a religion. Even if said group of atheists are able to establish religious beliefs, still atheism is FAR from being a religion. It could be a part of requirements of their religion but a religion must have at least religious beliefs. Atheism is not a religious belief. On contrary, it is the opposite of religious belief which is belief in god. And also religious beliefs intends to explain the origin of the universe, spiritual enlightenment, etc. etc. Not believing in god has none of that purpose. Its basically only says that I don't accept that explanation or some may reject it completely. So even if you say it's a belief, it's not a religious belief nonetheless. I could look for other explanation from other sources but that is the point where you stop referencing atheism don't you think?

Of course you see blogs, youtube channels, and other social media outlets with the word "atheism" on the header, with contents that are anti-religious and some referencing to their favorite atheists and then some have their own atheist community groups. Does that make atheism religion? If instead of atheists, it was cannibals doing all of these, does that make cannibalism a religion when all that cannibalism means is eating human flesh? Of course not. It's possible to make it part of religion, say eating humans for salvation but it's not a religion itself. I guess you could name your religion as "Atheism". But can you? A member of that religion would be called atheist. Remember, a religion must have religious beliefs. I'm an atheist who does not have a religious belief but then there's religion called atheism that I'm not a member of. With the possibility of me being mistakenly referenced with this people, you can't be that insensitive right?

And then there's also this false thinking that when you talk about religious topics extensively to the point that you sound like a preacher yourself, then you must also be a religious person too. Analogy: if I talk about a certain conspiracy theory and how ridiculous it is, does that make me a conspiracy theorist? Likewise I can be a non-religious person who talks about the bible, the quran, etc. I might tell you about my interpretation of the bible or a conspiracy theory to the point that I might sound like I'm teaching it to you, but still I'm not a religious person or a conspiracy theorist. The key point here is the meaning of religious belief. Ignoring that, I can see why it's easy for people to mistakenly call anyone being religious.


Agreed. Atheism is literally a lack of belief in religion. It does not automatically tie you to one or another alternative for it's creation either. Basically, Atheism is like being a person who does not believe the claim of folks that muffins are made by the deep-fry process. This does not automatically mean you believe in the alternative theory of the stork bringing muffins, or even the theory of muffins beginning with a big bang. It simply means you feel the claims of the deep-fry crowd are unfounded.

Now, many Atheists tend to subscribe to the theory (FACT), of evolution. But that is not a "religion" (a.k.a. a unfounded belief with no evidence) if it's proven. For instance, scientists have successfully
observed the speciation of many plants, and flies. Dogs evolved from wolves. Animals that exist today are never found mixed with fossils of now extinct animals, etc.
BigGeek
Merriam-Webster definition of Atheist is - "one who believes that there is no deity", or "a person who believes there is no God".

How this translates to a religion is beyond me - but then again most devout religious people lack some abilities when it comes to critical thinking. It is not really their fault it is what they have been taught to believe and their belief condemns critical thinking when it comes to the area of their religious beliefs. Those that question are evil, influenced by the devil, groups that question them are evil, influenced by the devil or Satan, they are sinners, or infidels or some other such label is given them. Fear of being ostracized and labeled with these horrible titles keeps them from questioning or evaluating any other point of view. This is why I say they typically lack the ability to form unbiased evaluation and conclusion based on anything that has to do with their religious belief system.

I personally am an agnostic - if there is a god I do not pretend to know it or how it works, and I do not think man or language can be used to describe it or speak about it.

My biggest problem with religions is not the people but the literature they use to back their beliefs. Typically the books upon research are found to have suspect origins, have been edited and manipulated for personal or organizational gain, and the beliefs represent a form of control over their followers where the leaders earn a living off of their followers contributions, and the belief system keeps this going!

No matter how you look at it the religious books are written by men thus their divine origin is totally refuted, and I do not see how any man can say anything about a god or supreme being and make any sense (which is probably why the books are contradictory and confusing). Couple that with the fact that just about every religious person alive and many that have passed have been found to be less than honest, as well as in many cases abusive, greedy, and selfish.

Given the corrupt nature of these organizations, the suspect honesty of their leaders, and horrible acts preformed in the name of "God" I personally find it impossible with a clear mind and heart to abide by any of these belief systems.

Just my 2 cents on the subject!
arfaiz
Wow, I didn't know that atheist has a prophet! They even don't believe god exists! Who the heck send this prophet? Is it another man? A mere human like me? Is "He" spreading his creeds? To control us and serve his cause? To hell with it.
Ankhanu
arfaiz wrote:
Wow, I didn't know that atheist has a prophet! They even don't believe god exists! Who the heck send this prophet? Is it another man? A mere human like me? Is "He" spreading his creeds? To control us and serve his cause? To hell with it.

The only thing correct that you said is your second sentence. The rest, I don't know where it comes from but is wholly incorrect.
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