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Is atheism guided by satan?





Bluedoll
Is atheism guided by satan?

Since the beginning of mankind’s existence satan has been actively asking questions that have cunningly lead people away from God. Mankind can not understand God completely enough to be able to define everything about God and so all men have different beliefs and understandings. Satan does have beliefs as well. Satan is the inventor of the lie and atheism’s father. – See the quote below

Quote:
Genesis 3: 1 – 5

Now the serpent was craftier than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

The message here is that God is not telling the truth to mankind but that satan is correct instead. Satan’s actions started a trend not to trust or believe in God’s words. This message has continued to the extent to where it is in our present day...

Atheism’s message is God does not exist.

A member of frihost nickfyoung wrote that he thought God controls satan. We all have different beliefs. I believe everyone can and does belief differently and that this is acceptable. I do not think God controls anyone, even satan but do believe that God’s will, will be done.
loremar
Our Father, Who art in Hell, hallowed be Thy name; Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Hell. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us to evil. Amen.




Rolling Eyes
75alex
So you're basically saying people who don't believe in the same thing as you are guided by an evil force ? Wow, that's such an open-minded point of view, I'm impressed. [/sarcastic]
nickfyoung
The Bible does talk about the god of this world who is believed to be Satan. It does talk about this god having some control over the peoples of this world, even controlling their thoughts etc. This god can even have control over Christians if they let him because they do have the power to resist now they are Christians, something that non Christians don't seem to have. So if you want to be Biblical, yes non believers are guided by an evil force, the god of this world. If you think about that seriously it can be rather frightening.
redhakaw
Satan doesn't care what you believe in, as long as it is not the God of the christians.
SpaceInvader75
Quote:
Since the beginning of mankind’s existence satan has been actively asking questions that have cunningly lead people away from God. Mankind can not understand God completely enough to be able to define everything about God and so all men have different beliefs and understandings. Satan does have beliefs as well. Satan is the inventor of the lie and atheism’s father.


I can understand how that conclusion could be reached, but let us assume that God created man. Now, I think if we assumed this, we would also assume that God created us capable of thinking critically. If we were unable to think critically, we might just believe anything anyone told us (including Satan).

But I think, if there is a God, he gave us a mind to be able to ask critical questions of "facts" that are presented to us. Now, is it logical to accept facts about God that are presented in a book that is thousands of years old, just because the book tells us this or other people tell us this is true?

The books were obviously written by men, and even later other men decided which books would be included in the various versions of the Bible today, yet we are expected to just believe that this is the truth?

Since all religions cannot be true, because they contradict each other, from that standpoint, Atheism is a much more logical view. Could it be a message from Satan (the Satan that we all know exists because it's written in a book)? Maybe, but in that case, the Bible could also be a message from Satan. There is no way to know that it isn't. Reasoning and logic should dictate that the Bible is a message from man.

So are you saying that reasoning and logic also come from Satan? If that is the case we'd have to say God wants us to be ignorant?
Ankhanu
Spaceinvader: Do not eat of the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil...
Seems pretty clear God prefers people to be ignorant.
Bluedoll
This is what I believe. Reasoning and logic is a quality all living beings can develop. It is something that is a beautiful pursuit. It can however be used for evil as well as good.

If we open our minds and consider that existence of beings other than our own might be possible or at the very least think of this as a possibility then we can use our logic in a constructive way. I believe that atheism and all that it teaches actually limits constructive reasoning because it is in effect a belief system though many hard case atheists will argue and become may even become very hostile when this is mentioned. The same logic that might tell us a book that thousands of years old can not be factual can also tell us the words have merit though it is true the bible can not be considered as a modern day science book might be for example.

I agree that the bible was written by men and that from many standpoints can be considered a “messy” collection however once appreciated that is something that makes it rational when we consider the messages it conveys and not the critiques that despise it.

I consider atheism yet another religion though very different than all the otherworldly religions because it displays the qualities of one. Is atheism logical? Yes it certainly is that and the message is very clear. Actually the bible does include messages from satan. Satan’s reasoning is that man does not need God. Satan’s message is God is liar. Atheism has an identical message.

The tree of knowledge, I believe is not a tree to demonstrate that humans can not have knowledge but what knowledge contributes. The idea behind the tree is solely about leadership. When we make decisions (based on reasoning and logic) then we become the moderators of our future.

In the bible God does educate and provides knowledge and understanding that is truth. Since all creatures of creation have free will the decision to accept a religion belief belongs to the individual.
SpaceInvader75
Quote:
I believe that atheism and all that it teaches actually limits constructive reasoning because it is in effect a belief system though many hard case atheists will argue and become may even become very hostile when this is mentioned. The same logic that might tell us a book that thousands of years old can not be factual can also tell us the words have merit though it is true the bible can not be considered as a modern day science book might be for example.


How does atheism limit constructive reasoning?
I think I have stated that I'm not an atheist, but I don't really think it is a belief system. We've probably had this discussion before, but that is like saying I'm a "non stamp-collector", just because I do not collect stamps. If I have to pick a belief system, then atheism would be closest to what I believe, but I think that is due to me questioning what I believed, and why I believed it.

I suppose one could argue that Satan caused me to question what I believed, but that doesn't seem like the simplest explanation.
The simplest explanation is that when I was a child I didn't question what I was taught. But when I became older I did question it, and since then, those questions I asked myself have never been answered enough to cause me to believe what I was taught. I have learned to ask more questions, and the more I asked, the less sense what I was taught about God made.

I think it is possibly a dangerous thing to believe that people are influenced by the Satan (because this implies they are carrying out evil actions) just because they do not believe in God (or they believe in a different God) and I think history has shown us this. I'm thinking of the Crusades, for example. In fact, even in the Bible, genocide was apparently committed in God's name. I think there is an important difference here, with lack of belief in God (atheism). Lack of a belief means that you're not going to be a martyr for your beliefs. It's hard to convince somebody to die for something they don't believe in. And this alone is enough to convince me that, if there is a Satan, and his goal is the destruction of man, atheism would not nearly effective towards this as conflicting religions!

Quote:
I consider atheism yet another religion though very different than all the otherworldly religions because it displays the qualities of one. Is atheism logical? Yes it certainly is that and the message is very clear. Actually the bible does include messages from satan. Satan’s reasoning is that man does not need God. Satan’s message is God is liar. Atheism has an identical message.


What are the qualities of a religion that atheism displays?
My point about the Bible including messages from Satan, is that it could have been written by Satan, pretending to be God, and there is really no way for us to know that it wasn't. Satan's reasoning may be that man does not need God, and God is a liar. But that is not exactly the message of Atheism. Atheist do not believe in God, they believe that man is lying about God. And you can believe that man is lying about God without being an atheist, btw.
Bluedoll
A non-stamp collector only applies to people not very interested in stamps. Those that take an active role in putting down stamp collecting are certainly involved in the movement of stamp collection but in an opposing role. I don’t buy that term non-belief. I can understand people that are not interested in God and do not want involvement but I do think they just say I am atheist so they are left alone.

Atheism in the present day sense (it is in the bible, it does have a history) is organized enough now to declare it a social organization and it does have defined understandings on the whole for anyone connected with it.

Asking questions is a good thing but ask the right person? I think atheists have an important role to play and pointing out that religion can be corrupted is a good thing. I believe God agrees with corruption is pointed out.

I agree it is dangerous to follow satan. The evil part is the declaration that God is irrelevant and doesn’t count. Satan’s role is to remove man from God’s influence. This is where anyone can certainly see where a similarity exists between atheism and satan. It isn’t always about the individual because atheism is not just one individual’s belief.

SpaceInvader75 wrote:
What are the qualities of a religion that atheism displays?
My point about the Bible including messages from Satan, is that it could have been written by Satan, pretending to be God, and there is really no way for us to know that it wasn't. Satan's reasoning may be that man does not need God, and God is a liar. But that is not exactly the message of Atheism. Atheist do not believe in God, they believe that man is lying about God. And you can believe that man is lying about God without being an atheist, btw.
Also see above this quote!

Excellent questions for certainly the bible is messy and was written by mankind. What can we believe and who can we believe? A lie is threacherous thing. Everyone can make up their mind as to what they what to believe. I would follow atheism as well if I did not have complete confidence in God and that the bible though it is not perfect does have some clarification regarding truth.

To find any truth requires an open mind and a desire to reach for it. Without those two things many atheists stay atheists because they believe they have found the truth. In order to find truth you have to get it from somewhere = atheism
SpaceInvader75
Quote:
A non-stamp collector only applies to people not very interested in stamps. Those that take an active role in putting down stamp collecting are certainly involved in the movement of stamp collection but in an opposing role. I don’t buy that term non-belief. I can understand people that are not interested in God and do not want involvement but I do think they just say I am atheist so they are left alone.


So maybe nobody debates about stamp collecting. I think the problem here is that there is evidence of harm from religion. I think that is one reason atheists take an active role in opposing religion. However, you do not have to take any role to be labeled an "atheist". To fit the definition of atheist, means you simply do not believe in God. I still say that is not a belief. You don't believe in God, you don't believe in Allah, you don't believe in Zeus, etc.

People with monotheistic beliefs are atheists when it comes to all other beliefs. I assume you don't believe in Zeus? You haven't addressed my theory that Satan could just as well convince people do believe in other gods and cause more harm then them believing in no gods (again, assuming there is a Satan). I don't personally believe there is a Satan, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and say, maybe there is a God and a Satan, and still, your belief that Atheism is a product of Satan is still illogical. Maybe it's that you just don't want to come out and say that Satan is behind other religions? Do you believe people that believe in other Gods are influenced by Satan? Let's talk about that.
Bluedoll
I think, I answered your questions SpaceInvader75 but if you think I didn’t please let me know.

I believe satan influences everyone. The question is how much? As far as logic is concerned, it is very logical if the possibility is explored that angels, satan and God exist. Once the mind is closed to that possibility then it will appear that everything about God after that is illogical. You are willing to give the benefit of the doubt here, ok, so lets look at this logically.

I agree that atheists do perform a good role when they expose harmful actions by religion such as those fake healers reaping money from poor people or exposing war mongrels that use religion to motivate unsuspecting religious people. Yes, there are evil workers.

All spiritually minded people however are not morons, illogical minded, immoral, delusional, spammer, etc, etc as some atheist’s try to make them out to be. I know I’ve been treated here in this forum with so much hurtful disrespect that I can tell you first hand that atheists do attack like bullies too. They are not shinning examples of mankind. Maybe, they just don’t like to here the truth about atheism even when it is presented logically or perhaps they can not open their mind enough to consider any other possibility than atheism.

I see often some atheists being extremely insulting and rude to people. Some people might ignore it but others will yes be hurt. It could drive someone over the edge but they simply do not care. I am not thinking about myself here but of someone in a very traditional religion. So, I do not think atheists are as blameless as they make themselves out to be. I do agree that religion can be harmful but then I put atheism in the same room.

There is logic in what I am saying about atheism. It is not just something I feel or think. There is proof.

What I do think what happens to people is they become brainwashed in thinking that faith = belief which = religion. But it only takes a little logic to understand it does not have to be so narrow-minded. These words are just words and words have meaning. Everyone has faith in something, a little or a lot. We also all believe in something and it does not have to be religion but it can be.

I don’t agree with the way atheism gets defined with the non-belief statement but I do agree that someone can not believe in something but that only means they will believe in something else. It is often not black and white either at all depending on conviction. Please try to remember that what I am discussing this rationally and logically and it does come from believing in God and what is said in the bible about atheism. If the bible is true (I believe it is) then all this talk about atheism is a religious discussion. With that in mind we simply have to look at what the bible says about atheism to understand it. This would be one kind of logical course of action to take but not the only one. If a person does not want to consider anything other than atheism then they will follow along with what they read about it published by of course atheists. It is a journey of learning from different sources. Makes perfect sense to me.
SpaceInvader75
Quote:
All spiritually minded people however are not morons, illogical minded, immoral, delusional, spammer, etc, etc as some atheist’s try to make them out to be. I know I’ve been treated here in this forum with so much hurtful disrespect that I can tell you first hand that atheists do attack like bullies too. They are not shinning examples of mankind. Maybe, they just don’t like to here the truth about atheism even when it is presented logically or perhaps they can not open their mind enough to consider any other possibility than atheism.


Well, I haven't been on this forum very long, but so far I haven't seen any atheist claiming claiming that all spiritual people are morons, immoral, delusional, and spammers. Perhaps I haven't seen the other side of the story, but when I read this post, it almost seems like an attack on atheists. I suppose that is nothing new, since I believe atheists are in the minority, at least in my country.

Quote:
I see often some atheists being extremely insulting and rude to people. Some people might ignore it but others will yes be hurt. It could drive someone over the edge but they simply do not care. I am not thinking about myself here but of someone in a very traditional religion. So, I do not think atheists are as blameless as they make themselves out to be. I do agree that religion can be harmful but then I put atheism in the same room


Since I haven't been on this forum very long, I suppose I can't really comment on atheists being extremely insulting and rude to people, but so far I haven't really seen anyone being extremely rude or insulting. I am certainly not saying atheists are blameless. I brought up the examples of harm caused by religion to put atheism in perspective, since atheism is claimed to be Satan's construction. I don't think there is anything Satanic about it.

I don't know if the Bible actually says Satan is behind atheism. Maybe you could quote the verses
that you interpret to mean that. I'm not saying it doesn't say that, I'm just not entirely sure.

But the Bible does says it is OK to stone your neighbor to death if they work on the Sabbath.
The Bible also says slavery is OK. So, assuming that I believed in God, and Satan, I would still require more evidence to believe that Satan is actually behind atheism.

Quote:
What I do think what happens to people is they become brainwashed in thinking that faith = belief which = religion. But it only takes a little logic to understand it does not have to be so narrow-minded. These words are just words and words have meaning. Everyone has faith in something, a little or a lot. We also all believe in something and it does not have to be religion but it can be.


I don't really know what the difference between faith and belief is. I do agree that you can believe in something without believing in a religion.

But I still disagree that everyone has faith in something. I think I have a lack of faith, which might be a bad thing, according to the Bible, but as I have said I do not trust the Bible, so it would be not be logical for me to look in it for answers. And yes, I have studied the Bible, but I did not study it for the purpose of atheism; I studied it because I was raised in a religious family. I don't study it anymore.
I still don't see how one can have faith in a lack of faith.
Bluedoll
I don’t see to eye to eye with lack of faith like it is a non-religious statement. “I have lack of faith” when it is suppose to mean I’m not associated with religious topics but then spend half your life preaching what you mean about atheism. It is a contradiction and that is what atheism does to people. I think people that just are turned off with religion say they are atheists to send away JW's at their door. Laughing ... and not really atheists at all.

What I see in lack of faith is the same I see a lack of compassion or lack conscience. I’m not implying here that all atheists lack moral fiber or something but saying that faith is related to all our characteristics. It does not have to be just about our spirituality.

Everyone is made the same way. We are humans. Confidence in something can be learned or explored and faith in something is what every human does to some degree. I do agree though that everyone can have different degrees of faith and different heart conditions.

Just the idea that saying I have “lack of faith” becomes a religious statement if used in the context of saying what you believe. I see belief and faith as different because belief is something we have developed over time from understandings but faith is believing in something when we don’t have the luxury of knowing absolutely. Yes the two things are tied closely together but it is like saying I have mind to or I have a heart to.

___________________________________________________________


The op has a biblical reference. Satan is the first atheist as he denies God by calling him a liar. Atheism is all about anti. It denies God. It is against Christianity not for it. I am calling satan atheist not to hurt the feelings of atheists but to show that atheism and satan have similar goals.

And who is the greatest liar? The one who says that Jesus is not Christ. Such a person is antichrist, for he does not believe in God the Father and in his Son. For a person who doesn’t believe in Christ, God’s Son, can’t have God the Father either. But he who has Christ, God’s Son, has God the Father also.

So keep on believing what you have been taught from the beginning. If you do, you will always be in close fellowship with both God the Father and his Son. And he himself has promised us this: eternal life.

These remarks of mine about the Antichrist are pointed at those who would dearly love to blindfold you and lead you astray. But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, in your hearts, so that you don’t need anyone to teach you what is right. For he teaches you all things, and he is the Truth, and no liar; and so, just as he has said, you must live in Christ, never to depart from him.

And now, my little children, stay in happy fellowship with the Lord so that when he comes you will be sure that all is well and will not have to be ashamed and shrink back from meeting him. - 1 John 2:22-28

____________________________________________


I believe that prayer is the only tool we have that can confirm the bible is real. But logic can prevail if we at least consider it might be true. That is the best starting point. A desire to find the truth from one good source –> God.

Not your fellow atheist or in some cases an over zealous minister that does more harm than good.

I am sorry if this post got much to long - I'm only trying to explain myself.

Is it not true when we turn off our conscience we become like the walking dead, when we close off our heart we become dead to feeling anything worthwhile in this world and people do, do this! I think it is very sad when that happens to people.

So is our spirituality is all around us. Some people find it in nature some look elsewhere but when we purposely close it off by declaring it does not exist then we practice being dead to it and loose a part of which we are.
loremar
Quote:
atheism and satan have similar goals.

Prejudiced nonsense. Is it impossible that at least one atheist does not have any of your satan's to do list?

To much subtleties in that post, I can't even....
Bluedoll
loremar wrote:
Quote:
atheism and satan have similar goals.

Prejudiced nonsense. Is it impossible that at least one atheist does not have any of your satan's to do list?

To much subtleties in that post, I can't even....
Google defines prejudiced as,
Prejudiced: having or showing a dislike or distrust that is derived from prejudice; bigoted

Bigoted or prejudiced can be a remark with a lot of negativity attached to it but for the purpose of this discussion I will just consider only what the word means, dislike and distrust.

I can only agree here. I have a total dislike and distrust of satan and since I associate everything offered by atheism to be a rejection of God then it fits exactly. Identical.

I do agree that not every atheist is identical. As I started out in the op - not about an atheist but atheism as an identity, it can be looked at from a bibical perspective. Atheism is a something and it does exist. The message that atheism carries is very clear.

What is in the bible I will consider relevant. The bible is not nonsense to me. It may be to you but it is not to me.
loremar
Bigot....

Bluedoll wrote:
I can only agree




'nuff said. Laughing
sudipbanerjee
As per my idea Atheism is the non believe in deities, then how they believe in Satan?
Bluedoll
sudipbanerjee wrote:
As per my idea Atheism is the non believe in deities, then how they believe in Satan?
Atheists do not believe in satan. I didn't say they did. In this thread I am comparing satan's aggenda to what atheism is all about. I am saying atheism is a social movement and does often clearly show that it has the same characteristics as a religion.

This is a religious post based on what the bible says about non-belief. Of course I understand the atheist position and that not all atheists are the same. Some just don't have an interest in religious topics while others take an active role in religious dialogue. This is the same for theists. As individuals they are all different.
catscratches
Damnit, guys. They're onto us. I'll ask Satan how to deal with this.
watersoul
Bluedoll wrote:
Is atheism guided by satan?
I don't believe in any invisible entities whatsoever, from gods to devils, goblins, elves, pixies, fairies, ghosts, angels, holy spirits, and anything else in between.
So, in answer to the question, no, I have never seen or experienced anything to draw me towards believing that my (or anyone else's) lack of faith in gods is as a result of guidance by an invisible entity mentioned in a multiple translated/interpreted collection of old books written by humans.
SpaceInvader75
Quote:
Just the idea that saying I have “lack of faith” becomes a religious statement if used in the context of saying what you believe.


I realize it may sound like a religious statement but the reason I describe it that way is because I am discussing it with people who have faith. I don't have faith, nor do I understand why I should have it.

Quote:
So keep on believing what you have been taught from the beginning. If you do, you will always be in close fellowship with both God the Father and his Son. And he himself has promised us this: eternal life.


I can't keep on believing what I was taught from the beginning, without sufficient reason to do so. To me, it seems sort of like in the Matrix, when you take the blue pill or the red pill. Once I discovered that I simply believed what I was taught as a child, I realized that there was really no other evidence.

I'm not saying I require scientific proof that God exists, but I just don't personally think I have reason to believe. I know some people say "Look around you and how could the whole world exist without a designer?" but there are things wrong with that assumption to, in my opinion. The first thing is that there is no evidence that evolution is wrong. So we do have another explanation other than "God made it". I think evolution is certainly a more rational belief than "Noah's Ark".
Bluedoll
Quote:
Then Jesus was led out into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit, to be tempted there by satan. For forty days and forty nights he ate nothing and became very hungry. Then satan tempted him to get food by changing stones into loaves of bread. “It will prove you are the Son of God,” he said.

But Jesus told him, “No! For the Scriptures tell us that bread won’t feed men’s souls: obedience to every word of God is what we need.”

Then satan took him to Jerusalem to the roof of the Temple. “Jump off,” he said, “and prove you are the Son of God; for the Scriptures declare, ‘God will send his angels to keep you from harm,’ . . . they will prevent you from smashing on the rocks below.”

Jesus retorted, “It also says not to put the Lord your God to a foolish test!”

Next satan took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him the nations of the world and all their glory. 9 “I’ll give it all to you,” he said, “if you will only kneel and worship me.” – Matthew 4:1-8
You do not need to ask satan anything to find proof. Ask atheism to explain itself instead. To understand this thread simply insert atheism in place of satan.


Actually watersoul what you said is not 100% correct. Now you actually have experienced something by reading this thread. You may not believe in satan or agree with what is written in the bible nor do I expect you to but you can no longer say I did not get the information. There is always a chance (if you have an open mind) that what I am writing and what is written in the bible is true and if it is then you can no longer say you did not read it out of the bible if you read this thread. But it is always your choice as to what you want to trust in, the bible or atheism indoctrination. That is my point of discussion, satan's influence on human spirituality.

I understand SpaceInvader75 that proof is wonderful thing to have when you need it but can you agree that some questions are not easily answered given there is no proof? When I think of evolution I think of only what the word means. I do not see it as dividing line between creation and science but that the two can agree. Things evolve over time but where did the first element come from to even get close to the big bang, how do things first evolve from nothing? When you have really hard questions when there can not be a proof then faith is the only alternative and everyone has faith in something as well as beliefs to get there.

I understand there is a personal pride to holding onto the social aspect of atheism. I also understand because atheism is a social movement there must be people involved but to understand what I mean, atheism has to be looked at as a thing, an identity, something that people understand, follow, talk about even teach.

When someone can open their mind enough to see that then they should be able to see the identity is not called progressiveism where everything progressive is talked about from politics, social change to education. No, no, no what is on the plate, on the agenda in atheism is God. Whether you say you believe or do not believe does not change the fact that atheism is about religious matter or it would not be labeled as such.

Since atheism is about a religious idea whether it is for or against, it is still very religious minded which can be proven by the topics that constantly get expressed (everywhere) around the subject of God, bible or satan.
Ankhanu
Bluedoll wrote:
You do not need to ask satan anything to find proof. Ask atheism to explain itself instead. To understand this thread simply insert atheism in place of satan.

Or insert "a puppy" or "Thomas the Tank Engine" in place of satan... You can make it fit whatever you want if you only alter what it says!
I do see where you're coming from, insinuating that doubt and skepticism are the domain of the devil... most atheists certainly do doubt theist claims. Of course the last part about seeking worship is utter horse patoot. Maybe your best bet is to take the passage as it's intended, as a lesson meant to encourage you to maintain faith in the face of temptation and reason and simply continue to blindly accept that which might otherwise seem silly.
That passage is not telling you to take a crusade against satan or atheism, it's telling you to blindly accept what you've been taught, because blind acceptance is good and will be rewarded. I mean it's written right there plain as day "do not test", just accept. It is a message of compliance/subservience.




Bluedoll wrote:
When I think of evolution I think of only what the word means.
"Change over time" is it's most basic sense. The biological theory of evolution is a little more complex, however Wink
Bluedoll wrote:
Things evolve over time but where did the first element come from to even get close to the big bang, how do things first evolve from nothing? When you have really hard questions when there can not be a proof then faith is the only alternative and everyone has faith in something as well as beliefs to get there.
Some of this has been explained to you in the past... multiple times, so I'm not going to rehash it.
But, you are kind of correct, the origin of life is still a topic that is ultimately an unknown (though there are a couple rather good potential explanations, they're not conclusive yet); ditto with the actual point of the Big Bang (though down to ~ 1x10^(-43) seconds after the event is understood). But to say that there are two choices "we know what happened" or "we have faith that x happened" is wrong, and relies upon there only being two options, which, quite often, is simply not the case. You forget the other option... the honest option: We don't know.

How do we come to know? We investigate using the tools at our disposal. It may be that we'll not know in our lifetimes, but, knowledge is an additive thing, it builds upon the efforts of those who have come before. Maybe we don't know now, and we have to accept that (rather than inventing convenient "truths" so we don't have to confront our own ignorance).

Bluedoll wrote:
I understand there is a personal pride to holding onto the social aspect of atheism. I also understand because atheism is a social movement there must be people involved but to understand what I mean, atheism has to be looked at as a thing, an identity, something that people understand, follow, talk about even teach.
You're kind of right here, actually. Atheist certainly is a label, it's an identifier... but it's a VERY broad one with almost no descriptive power. It only has description towards one question, but, given the subject of that one question is one in which the majority of other people hold a differing stance, it does serve to form distinction.
In much the same way, if the majority of people were atheists, the title theist would have more distinction through identifying an outgroup from the majority.

Bluedoll wrote:
When someone can open their mind enough to see that then they should be able to see the identity is not called progressiveism where everything progressive is talked about from politics, social change to education. No, no, no what is on the plate, on the agenda in atheism is God. Whether you say you believe or do not believe does not change the fact that atheism is about religious matter or it would not be labeled as such.
Well, your assertion that there's an agenda is simply wrong... but that may have been a mistaken choice of term (I'll offer benefit of the doubt). You're right that the only thing atheism is concerned about is the acceptance or rejection of positive god claims... everything else that may be attributed to atheism is not atheism. Of course, we atheists have been saying this to you for months. Thank you for accepting that.

Bluedoll wrote:
Since atheism is about a religious idea whether it is for or against, it is still very religious minded which can be proven by the topics that constantly get expressed (everywhere) around the subject of God, bible or satan.

Again, it's not for/against, but accept/reject. But, yeah, it is a topic of religion and belief.
watersoul
watersoul wrote:
Bluedoll wrote:
Is atheism guided by satan?
I don't believe in any invisible entities whatsoever, from gods to devils, goblins, elves, pixies, fairies, ghosts, angels, holy spirits, and anything else in between.
So, in answer to the question, no, I have never seen or experienced anything to draw me towards believing that my (or anyone else's) lack of faith in gods is as a result of guidance by an invisible entity mentioned in a multiple translated/interpreted collection of old books written by humans.


Bluedoll wrote:
Actually watersoul what you said is not 100% correct.
My above statement is correct.
Perhaps your perception of reasoning might be causing challenges in understanding it.
Nothing in my above quoted reply asserts that you are incorrect, just that I've seen and/or experienced nothing ever to draw me towards believing the same things you do about 'Satan' being behind people who lack faith in gods - you know, those commonly referred to as atheists.
Quote:
Now you actually have experienced something by reading this thread. You may not believe in satan or agree with what is written in the bible nor do I expect you to but you can no longer say I did not get the information. There is always a chance (if you have an open mind) that what I am writing and what is written in the bible is true and if it is then you can no longer say you did not read it out of the bible if you read this thread. But it is always your choice as to what you want to trust in, the bible or atheism indoctrination. That is my point of discussion, satan's influence on human spirituality.
Nope, nothing new there, just you telling me that what you read in an old book written by humans and translated/interpreted multiple times, is evidence of God/Satan.
No atheist indoctrination involved in my stance, no faith either, just a lack of trust in your alleged source of 'evidence' - Still don't buy it Bluedoll, you haven't brought anything new to the table.
Maybe one day you or others will... I keep an open mind to any wild possibility.
SpaceInvader75
Quote:
I understand SpaceInvader75 that proof is wonderful thing to have when you need it but can you agree that some questions are not easily answered given there is no proof? When I think of evolution I think of only what the word means. I do not see it as dividing line between creation and science but that the two can agree. Things evolve over time but where did the first element come from to even get close to the big bang, how do things first evolve from nothing? When you have really hard questions when there can not be a proof then faith is the only alternative and everyone has faith in something as well as beliefs to get there.


Of course some questions are not answered easily, and there may be no "proof" either way. For example, nobody can prove what happens after they die, but the simplest answer would be that nothing happens, and that seems like the most logical conclusion. I suppose you could take the idea that life is a circle from observation (to imply reincarnation) but even then, I think some evidence should be required, because if a "spirit" is something that doesn't really exist physically, what reason is there to think that it actually exists?

I don't think the Bible, or any other religious texts, are enough reason to assume that there is anything in addition to the physical world that we experience. I know you don't agree with this perception, but I assert that the main people really have for believing in supernatural things (which, by definition, do not exist in nature) is that they were taught this from childhood. I know there are exceptions to the rule, but my main point is that you only refer to the Bible as the basis of your logic, but my logical conclusion is that is simply not a reason to believe in supernatural things (such as Satan).

The only reason I mentioned evolution is because I was explaining why the existence of nature is not enough reason for me to assume that there is a God. I understand you can believe in both God and Evolution. How do things first evolve from nothing? I don't know, but I think it is similar to asking "How did God always exist?"
Ankhanu
SpaceInvader75 wrote:
How do things first evolve from nothing? I don't know, but I think it is similar to asking "How did God always exist?"

Or "How did God create?" The How questions remain when God is added to the question... God is never an explanation, it's an explanatory cop-out. It's a little like answering a "why?" with "because"; it's an answer, sure, but it doesn't actually answer the question.

Even if we accept that God created the universe or created life, we still don't have the answer to the question "how?"
redhakaw
As long as man decides to be absent of God's presence, whether in belief or disbelief, then that can be considered a cause perpetrated by Satan
cmcwp
A disbelief in a god is simply due to a lack of convincing evidence. The bible was written by men, over the course of 1,000 years or so, heavily edited, using plagarized stories from other traditions (see Gilgamesh, for example- itself a plagarized story.)

Everybody's an atheist- do you believe in Gilgamesh? Zeus? Neptune? Well there you go. Most likely, you follow a religion that was chosen FOR you, not BY you, and you go along with it to keep in sync with your family and community. Atheists merely believe in one less god than you do.

That's all atheism means- disbelief. It's not a statement saying there aren't any gods, merely that the atheist has yet to be convinced that there are any. The evidence isn't there. Maybe someday science will prove a god or gods? In that case, an atheist would believe, if the evidence were truly compelling and passed the muster of mainstream science.

For the same reason, atheists don't believe in satan, either- that's just another supernatural entity like all the rest.

If anything, religion is a clever construct by satan, luring people in with false promises, and getting otherwise good people to do bad things in the form of supporting televangelists, hate groups (anti-gay etc.), causing societies to abandon their traditional beliefs in other things (missionaries), and so forth. Even religious people fight amonst each other- just try getting two Christians to agree on what it means to be a "real Christian."
spinout
I truely believe that I am Satan and that doesn't make me an atheist.
nam_siddharth
Cunning people created God, Goons forced it by use of power and fools followed him.

If we look at the history, it has always been true. Be it Muhammad, Christ, Abraham, Brahmans etc. It is also true for today be it ISIS, Taliban, Crusaders, Bajrang Dal, RSS etc.

So the cunning people will always try to convince that God exist, and if you not believe it you will be in trouble. They will create Satan, Hell etc to scare you. If you still not follow him, they will mark you as follower of Satan (As if the people who are smart enough to not accept their creation God, will accept their lower creations like Satan). They will mark you as a barrier in the way of God (As if all powerfull God is scared of his life from a non-believer). At last attempt they will use there goons.
Private Goons or Blind followers of these cunning people like ISIS of Bagdadi or Taliban of laden will use power to force it to people, and fools like Christians, Muslims, Jews or other believers will always find it convenience to accept their nonsense.
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