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If you put a "Proud to American" bumper sticker on





JoryRFerrell
....shouldn't you also be willing to put a "Not proud to be American" sticker, when "necessary", on as well?

Would it indicate insincerity in saying you are proud, if you were not also capable of saying (just as "loudly" as you do when supposedly "proud") you are not proud of America?

Twisted Evil

To clarify the question:
Is it possible to truly be proud of something, without it being brainwashing, if you are not capable
of EVER claiming that you are NOT proud, or even ashamed, concerning the same subject?
The fact that Nazi's were not really capable of saying "I am ashamed of this or that action, which
Germany has committed." is evidence of brainwashing, or unwillingness to even appear to go
against the grain. That said, would failure to see people saying they are not proud of America, no
matter the issue, indicate an inability to think for oneself, or a willingness to only do as Simon
Says? After-all, that is exactly the claim we would make if most everyone in Saudi Arabia were
always 100% supportive of Saudi policy, however bad it gets.
watersoul
I've never really done the national pride thing, I just happened to be born in the UK and I'm luckier than many millions in the world that it happens to be a relatively comfortable place to live.

'Pride' is a strange one for me. I'm proud of anything I personally do which has a positive effect on others, or other such impressive things which can be directly attributed to my own work and effort, but pride for something others have done is a bit silly if you ask me.

The UK went for banning slavery in 1807 and of course I look at history and say 'that was the right option' but how can I be proud of that if it was nothing to do with me.
The UK currently provides aid to many countries around the world and I of course support it, but where is my personal pride for this? I'm not actually 'in the field' handing out aid parcels, other people do it, paid for by taxes.

National 'pride' is an outdated concept in my opinion, derived from some human yearning to feel part of something bigger than individuality perhaps. I could list many things I think the UK collectively does which is positive to the world community, but I could equally list many things the UK does which are damaging to other humans. Pride does not come into it - none of it is as a result of my own personal efforts aside from voting every 4 years or so.
CHAOS-THEORY
who would like to put that kind of stickers anyway ??
Usa ?? Uk ?? are u shittin me ??
spys all over.. buzz off
JoryRFerrell
CHAOS-THEORY wrote:
who would like to put that kind of stickers anyway ??
Usa ?? Uk ?? are u shittin me ??
spys all over.. buzz off


Kind sir....I am positively uncertain what brand of crack you have procured, but may I humbly suggest you cease the smoking of it post-haste?


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Quote:
MODERATOR - URL tags fixed; tags should look like this to function:
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[url=http://url.com]link text[/url]

- Ankhanu
coolclay
I echo Watersoul's sentiment. Being a citizen of one's country should not be a pride sort of issue. It is what it is. If your unhappy with your country of birth move to another, I wouldn't say pride has anything to to with it.

Now if I was the cause of a major change or something than maybe I could be proud of the change but still not the country itself.

Maybe I just read Ayn Rand too much but I believe in personal achievement and don't think it possible to have pride in something I had no hand in (country of birth).
deanhills
coolclay wrote:

Maybe I just read Ayn Rand too much but I believe in personal achievement and don't think it possible to have pride in something I had no hand in (country of birth).
Glad to find someone else who admires Ayn Rand's writings. I moved to a different country, and I admire the country - Canada. I like what it aims at - no discrimination against sex, race, religion, etc. It obviously isn't a perfect society as people are not perfect, I'm not perfect, but it does strive for tolerance of differences.
coolclay
Wait really, you're in Canada these days? I enjoy Canada very much as well, for many of the same reasons and many others too. Still not a big fan of their environmental choices, but there ain't many countries that are responsible when it comes to that.
Ankhanu
coolclay wrote:
I enjoy Canada very much as well, for many of the same reasons and many others too. Still not a big fan of their environmental choices, but there ain't many countries that are responsible when it comes to that.

Believe me, many of us are deeply embarrassed by the current administration's environmental choices too. Embarrassed and angry Razz
deanhills
coolclay wrote:
Wait really, you're in Canada these days? I enjoy Canada very much as well, for many of the same reasons and many others too. Still not a big fan of their environmental choices, but there ain't many countries that are responsible when it comes to that.
Nope. I'm an expat Canadian living in the UAE. Not an "original" Canadian however. It's my adopted country by choice. Think Indi also adopted Canada, so that has to be a super seal of approval. Or just a practical alternative. Razz
watersoul
deanhills wrote:
Nope. I'm an expat Canadian living in the UAE.
UAE is the country you've contributed your efforts towards for the last few years though isn't it?
I'm assuming Canada get's zero income from any taxes on your earnings, just like the UAE which has no personal income taxes. Maybe you buy Canadian imported goods and help Canada's export market? ...but apart from that I can't see how your 'chosen' country has really benefited by you being a citizen for quite a while?

I can understand why you wouldn't want to be a citizen of the UAE though, what with no democratically elected government, political parties banned, plus restrictions on freedoms of speech, the press, and public association. Best of both worlds for you I'd say, no requirement to fund your chosen nation Canada, plus greater freedom and opportunity than many citizens of the country you live and work in - Especially the screwed-over manual worker undocumented Emirati's who build the offices and malls around you Wink
CHAOS-THEORY
that was like the worst post so far. "kind sir"
JoryRFerrell
CHAOS-THEORY wrote:
that was like the worst post so far. "kind sir"

Wow....that was a really eloquently worded, well reasoned argument.
Except...you sorta forgoted to's explain's one thing's:
WHY was it the worst post so far?

Please kind sir. Don't be an ignorant troll. Explain instead of hitting and running like so many American cowards are apt to do.
deanhills
watersoul wrote:
I can understand why you wouldn't want to be a citizen of the UAE though, what with no democratically elected government, political parties banned, plus restrictions on freedoms of speech, the press, and public association. Best of both worlds for you I'd say, no requirement to fund your chosen nation Canada, plus greater freedom and opportunity than many citizens of the country you live and work in - Especially the screwed-over manual worker undocumented Emirati's who build the offices and malls around you Wink
I'm here because I can't find work in Canada, or what was available in Canada at the time when I found work here was iffy. It's changing however, as it's almost as difficult for expats to find work here as in their home countries and salary and benefits are not as attractive as it used to be. Too many expats competing for the same job as well as very serious Emiratization. My contract comes to an end next year so don't see myself staying beyond then.

Almost impossible to become a citizen here, even if one wanted to, as requirement is at least 20 years residency and speaking Arabic fluently. Probably need to be a Muslim too. Now and then like one in a million someone of a different nationality whom the Emiratis have a great admiration for gets honorary citizenship of a kind. Also interesting to note that Emiratis are in the minority here. Less than 20% of the total population of approx 6-million are citizens of the country.
http://www.indexmundi.com/united_arab_emirates/demographics_profile.html
Afaceinthematrix
In America, every school is forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance on a daily basis but schools are not allowed to force individual students to say it. Therefore, I never said the Pledge of Allegiance. Even if I am proud of my country, I am not going to endorse blind patriotism and following because when you do that, you lose the ability to criticize your country when needed. The country that I live in forces every student (as in principals will cane students that don't comply) to sing the national anthem every morning and a big picture of "His Excellency" (the president) is on the walls of school. People are brainwashed into doing some things such as standing still when hearing the national anthem (even if it's being sung at a school 200 yards away and there's a fence in-between and it really bothers me. This goes for both people and countries: if you must demand respect then you probably do not deserve it.
standready
I cannot be 'proud' of something I had no hand in making but then my vote does not really count anyway.
CHAOS-THEORY
JoryRFerrell wrote:
CHAOS-THEORY wrote:
that was like the worst post so far. "kind sir"

Wow....that was a really eloquently worded, well reasoned argument.
Except...you sorta forgoted to's explain's one thing's:
WHY was it the worst post so far?

Please kind sir. Don't be an ignorant troll. Explain instead of hitting and running like so many American cowards are apt to do.


lol at "American cowards are apt to do", one sentence; grow up and please don't cry cause am not american


under the slogan of ' learn how to spell '



am out of this senseless argument of yours
SpaceInvader75
I live in the US, and I actually have a T-Shirt with an American Flag that I wear as a private joke. lol
I don't believe in national pride. If I started this country maybe I would feel differently, but I was born here; I didn't choose to be born here, and I would probably leave if I wasn't so poor.

I think this national pride thing is simply brainwashing. Possibly man has some inner desire to belong to something (is it a tribe)? Whatever that is, I don't seem to possess much of that sense. I'm totally uninterested in watching sports, and I cannot understand how people can be so excited about "their" teams winning. It's not your team; it's a bunch of people that get paid to play, and you're not doing anything to help them win!

My dad once said "America (meaning the USA) is the greatest country in the world." and I had to reply to such an ignorant statement. I said "How do you know? You've never lived anywhere else!". I can think of some countries I'd probably rather live in (Sweden comes to mind), but I haven't lived there yet, so I can't be 100% sure. Even if I lived in a country that I supported most of the government's actions I don't think I would have "pride" in my country. As somebody mentioned earlier; I don't even feel that I have an influence in my country, as an individual. Sure, I can vote, but neither of the parties really seems to represent my interests and the single politician I would have voted for president can't get elected.
johans
for me, America is a nice place to visit its also a nice place to work and livin.. Most of my countrymen looking for work in America for its high money value and many opportunities in work.

I think every person being born on there native land should be proud of. Nothing to ashamed of.
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