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You 'know' your god exists so other deities must be false?





watersoul
I've decided to post this in the 'Faith' forum because it is a safe place for anyone to express their beliefs without the requirement of any supporting evidence or reasoned argument.
I am genuinely interested in the positions held by those who have a faith in whichever gods people have a belief in, from the Abrahamic 'God' which Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in, to the multiple deities found in Hinduism.

Anyone who has been a regular member of Frihost will know that I don't believe in any of them due to not personally being aware of any evidence to support such claims.
That said, if you are able to ignore my lack of faith for the sake of discussion, I would love to know what believers of conflicting faiths think when they are in discussion with each other.

In my town I often see 'inter-faith' groups carrying out various meetings or whatever, and this always puzzles me due to the obvious difference in belief.
It appears that everyone likes to bash the person with no faith, but each of the organised religions seem happy to ignore the differences, provided it is a faith in something.
So, my burning question is how can a Christian for example, find allegiance with a Hindu or Zoroastrian so easily, but reject a person with no faith?
If one believes their particular faith is the 'only truth' then a conflicting religion must surely be as ridiculous as a lack of faith?

I look forward to the opinions of any people of faith here, and as we're not in P&R any unsupported assertions are of course welcome.
redhakaw
As a christian, I only believe in One Triune God, all other gods are false.
That is why I need to reach out to non-christians, but in order to do that I need to receive them like a good samaritan, not caring about what fallacy they practice but to give them the gospel of God.

I do not compare God with their god as this will only encourage animosity, what I do is pray for them, share with them the teachings of God, and lead a life of good testimony.

oh, and atheists are also included.
Mrs_Robota
I am also christian, I'm catholic, but I see it in other way, we all have the same unique God, but it is impossible that all cultures in world can call him and represent him in same way, so everyone has a different name, a different shape, and even a different story, the thng is that they believe there's something superior whatever is their conception. So there is not reason for any kind of conflict, if only we would be a little bit more tolerant, we would be able to understand that.... In most of cases religions are misunderstood and it is a shame when instead to bring peace they only bring wars, but that's only matter of men, not of God. The best religion is a good heart, the true religion is the one that make you be a better person and that's all.
watersoul
Firstly, thank you for the insightful replies so far. As a person without any faith it is helpful for me to understand the strong and often conflicting beliefs held by fellow humans sharing our little rock floating through the universe.

redhakaw wrote:
As a christian, I only believe in One Triune God, all other gods are false.
That is why I need to reach out to non-christians, but in order to do that I need to receive them like a good samaritan, not caring about what fallacy they practice but to give them the gospel of God.

I do not compare God with their god as this will only encourage animosity, what I do is pray for them, share with them the teachings of God, and lead a life of good testimony.

oh, and atheists are also included.
That seems to be a compassionate view towards people of other faiths and those without any. It is how I would imagine I would proceed if I absolutely believed in a god as the only true god.
I am fascinated with how a situation would develop if say you met a Sikh or Hindu and they felt similarly, believing your god to be false and wishing to change your belief in the same compassionate manner? Have you ever been in such a situation where another faith is 'reaching out' to you with the same passionate belief that their god is the truth and a loving wish to enlighten you? Would it just be a case of agree to disagree or would you continue efforts with your testimony?

Mrs_Robota wrote:
I am also christian, I'm catholic, but I see it in other way, we all have the same unique God, but it is impossible that all cultures in world can call him and represent him in same way, so everyone has a different name, a different shape, and even a different story, the thng is that they believe there's something superior whatever is their conception. So there is not reason for any kind of conflict, if only we would be a little bit more tolerant, we would be able to understand that.... In most of cases religions are misunderstood and it is a shame when instead to bring peace they only bring wars, but that's only matter of men, not of God. The best religion is a good heart, the true religion is the one that make you be a better person and that's all.
Your response is also compassionate but appears to be perhaps more tolerant and willing to suggest that all faiths may be the same but it's just perception or interpretation of the higher power that can vary?
To a non-believer such as myself it would then lead me not to any particular organised faith, just belief in a superior entity and a need to live a life of love and compassion toward humankind.
With that in mind, I am wondering if you feel there is any need for organised religious teachings at all?
I am also curious if redhakaw would consider such a position to be Christian and/or if the Christian god would consider it 'good enough' for salvation/place in heaven, or if strict adherence to the doctrine is the only way?

Again, thank you for the replies so far, it is very interesting and I'm sure also useful for other readers of the forums to consider such things in an almost confusing world full of so many conflicting beliefs and ideas of faith.
nickfyoung
Watersoul
Quote:
So, my burning question is how can a Christian for example, find allegiance with a Hindu or Zoroastrian so easily, but reject a person with no faith?


A very difficult question and the answer is the level of commitment of the Christian. There is a lot of watered down varieties of Christian who can fellowship with anyone and on the other end of the scale Christians who are too legalistic and strict in their thinking.

All Christians adhere to the teachings of the Bible but the same scale depends on the interpretation of it so you get a strict following or a watered down following, ie, that is not relevant for today etc.

Another reason for the difference is the type of conversion the Christian had. As you know I just had a thread closed and locked on this topic. Wiki has two entries, one religious conversion and one Christian conversion. The religious version necessitates a lifetime of striving to mean the demands of the particular religion you are converting to while the Christian conversion is an initial experience which changes your worldview for you with not the same level of work required on your behalf. That was the catchcry of the reformation, by grace alone and not of works.

So if you find that your Christian has had a religious conversion as compared to a Christian conversion then he is still trying to work his way there hence he has a more liberal outlook.

Personally, I am probably more into the fundamentalist mold which takes the Bible fairly literally and base my faith on that. A fundamentalist will claim not to be religious but to just have a relationship with his God which is a personal thing although we do love to get together regularly and worship together and eat cake together.
Mrs_Robota
watersoul wrote:


Mrs_Robota wrote:
I am also christian, I'm catholic, but I see it in other way, we all have the same unique God, but it is impossible that all cultures in world can call him and represent him in same way, so everyone has a different name, a different shape, and even a different story, the thng is that they believe there's something superior whatever is their conception. So there is not reason for any kind of conflict, if only we would be a little bit more tolerant, we would be able to understand that.... In most of cases religions are misunderstood and it is a shame when instead to bring peace they only bring wars, but that's only matter of men, not of God. The best religion is a good heart, the true religion is the one that make you be a better person and that's all.
Your response is also compassionate but appears to be perhaps more tolerant and willing to suggest that all faiths may be the same but it's just perception or interpretation of the higher power that can vary?
To a non-believer such as myself it would then lead me not to any particular organised faith, just belief in a superior entity and a need to live a life of love and compassion toward humankind.
With that in mind, I am wondering if you feel there is any need for organised religious teachings at all?
I am also curious if redhakaw would consider such a position to be Christian and/or if the Christian god would consider it 'good enough' for salvation/place in heaven, or if strict adherence to the doctrine is the only way?



as I said, for me there's not a special christian God and then another kind of God for another religions, there's only one and is the same one for all of us, even for you, no matter if you are not a believer, remember that it was just a matter of luck where we had to born and if you could grow in my society, you would be also christian, or if you could born in orient, you could be muslism o if you were born in jungle you would believe in other kind of entities and so on, in the end is the same, I would never try to convert you in christian, maybe only teach you that it exist, but eventually you and only you are who decide to believe or not and God will get to you in the way you need and in the way you allow him, we are part of him anyway and we will back to him someday. And for answer your question, I really don't think that should exist any particular organised faith, but sometimes we need it, maybe for remember, and maybe for feel that we belong to something (similar to the patriotic stuff feelings, to own a common flag, an own language, an own past, etc), all sacred books have something in common, and even without that, our common sense will drive us to understand what's the difference between bad and good actions, which we should follow and why?. Unfortunately what I see is that maybe the original message was distorted so by religions, and people is wrong wasting their time in discuss wich is the real faith, the real God, learning by heart some quotes of an historic book, that at the end is just history, maybe with good advices and a guide, but just a book, and the worst is the intolerance, when a group attack to others for their particular beliefs... if you understand the basic faith and that it always had the same source, you will see that it just doesn't make any sense, we are just wasting the time, instead to do that, we should focus our lives in help us each other and try to make from this world a better place.

btw sorry my bad english
redhakaw
watersoul wrote:
That seems to be a compassionate view towards people of other faiths and those without any. It is how I would imagine I would proceed if I absolutely believed in a god as the only true god.
I am fascinated with how a situation would develop if say you met a Sikh or Hindu and they felt similarly, believing your god to be false and wishing to change your belief in the same compassionate manner? Have you ever been in such a situation where another faith is 'reaching out' to you with the same passionate belief that their god is the truth and a loving wish to enlighten you? Would it just be a case of agree to disagree or would you continue efforts with your testimony?


One of the crucial teaching in christianity which was lost due to man's lack of faith is how people are "inspired" to follow God. Usually, and what we all now, an evangelist will preach, and then will proselytize, and then will do any means to convince a person to convert. If you look at my previous post, first, I pray, which means that I convince God to save the person, not to convince the person himself, second, I preach and share about God, I did not say good and beneficial teachings but just teachings, whether it's fantastically awesome or gruesomely morbid, and lastly I practice a life of good testimony, like a normal good person with a good character following the law of the land. In all these you should notice that it is not "I" who makes people believe in God, Only God and His pure Word can enlighten a soul to confess and repent, and receive the grace of God. It's not base on how eloquent, how persuasive or how intelligent you are, no matter how good a message you give, if God doesn't want him (now), he will not be saved.

This is pictured in the parable of the woman who lost her coin.

to answer your question, I cannot agree with them, but they don't have to agree to what I said, my job is to plant the seed, water the seed, it's already God's job to have them believe and grow into a tree. Literally, when we plant a seed, water it, care for it, are we really 100% sure that it will grow? it is already in the hands of the heavens.
emedeiros
watersoul wrote:
So, my burning question is how can a Christian for example, find allegiance with a Hindu or Zoroastrian so easily, but reject a person with no faith?
If one believes their particular faith is the 'only truth' then a conflicting religion must surely be as ridiculous as a lack of faith?


Because the presence of people with other faiths actually reinforces the notion that they aren't wasting their times, and any kind of discussion would be something like "what are the differences between our unverified claims". Discussions with people without any religion would be more like "how my unverified claims should overpower reason".



watersoul wrote:
I am fascinated with how a situation would develop if say you met a Sikh or Hindu and they felt similarly, believing your god to be false and wishing to change your belief in the same compassionate manner? Have you ever been in such a situation where another faith is 'reaching out' to you with the same passionate belief that their god is the truth and a loving wish to enlighten you? Would it just be a case of agree to disagree or would you continue efforts with your testimony?


This kind of situation very often develops to wars and massacres.


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