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Don't make her a mother, If you wouldn't make her a wife





icebox27
Just wondering why there are lots of single moms out there. Many of them were abandoned by their partners.. There is a saying "Man can't live without a woman" but actually some of them left their women just because they got pregnant.. No offense meant.. If your not one of them. I know it takes Two to Tango, but I believe they should both stand and face the responsibilities.. Every strong woman can do it on her own, but a stronger man wouldn't let her. Confused
watersoul
icebox27 wrote:
Every strong woman can do it on her own, but a stronger man wouldn't let her. Confused

Wow, generalisation much?!

What about the women who are equally guilty of unprotected sex with a guy met at a party, and when sober don't want anything to do with the father of the child, actually denying access after birth and claiming parenthood as their own right?

What about girls who fall pregnant after sex with a guy met at a party but lied to the guy when he asked if she was using the contraceptive pill? - Actually happened to me but I insisted on a DNA test which was the best 300 I've ever spent as I wasn't the father. She then became a single parent, but in her defence I will always admire her for admitting to me that she lied about being on the pill.

What about the many men who the courts grant full parental responsibility to mothers even when the lifestyle of the mother is less settled than the fathers?

I throw it back to you -
Every strong man could do it on his own, but many women won't let them.

or
Don't make him a father, if you wouldn't make him a husband

(although the getting married thing over cohabitating option is a bit dated, as is the 'strong man not letting them' line which implies control and dominance over the mother - 'wouldn't let her' ...really?!)

My well balanced, happy, kind and talented late teen son has been brought up in two homes since he was aged 2, when his mother and I split.
She is my best friend and I love working with her as a parent.
We've both always worked for a living, while at the same time, sharing taking to school/nursery duties depending on who he was with when he was put to bed and read a storybook, either with me, or at his mothers. We share expenses and both provide him a bedroom with the same gadgets needs etc. We watch him play rugby together, we attend school meetings together, we share parental notes and work as a team supporting each other raising our child, but not 'together'.
Under UK stats she is officially a single parent because these details are taken from the government department which administers Child Benefit. Only one parent can receive the small amount of money, regardless of shared parenting, and it is often a 'passport' requirement for other government services etc for parents - the question "who receives the child benefit?" can influence many other official decisions.
She is not a single parent in the sense that such a label implies, any more than I am 'single' in my parenting - we just live independently of each other and are not in any relationship with each other aside friom being committed parents and good friends.

I agree many men do abandon their parental responsibilities, but I know many men who have envied my equal access and involvement in parenting, when their ex's have pulled the plug for various reasons, including being happy not having to get a job while the (out of work) single parent benefits are at the rates they are in my country.
I know many men on minimum wage who would love to be the 'official' single parent of their kids, take them to school, go home and watch daytime TV after a bit of housework, all paid by state benefits.
Instead they work to pay for a two bed place with no assistance from the state in housing benefits because the extra room is not needed because "they're not the parent in receipt of Child Benefit".

I am lucky to have a brilliant ex as the mother of my child - she knows as well as I do that she could have pulled the plug on my access through the courts if she had wanted to - for whatever reasons, in my country the mother is usually favoured in any challenge - but there are most definitely women who abuse this knowledge of our legal system.

Rant over, and welcome to Frihost Smile
Please though, always look at the multitude of reasons and situations of 'single' parents before making a post which seems to imply that men generally are the bad ones when you see these 'lots of single moms out there'.
icebox27
Not actually, Did I forget to say NO Offense meant if you did not do it? Well I admire you anyway, the fact that you stood up and face your responsibility as a father, and she's not selfish to take your son away from you. However I'm still standing for my opinion as I have seen those cases from my friends and ladies around the world. As a man, you know for the fact that women are weaker than you. Right? Just I want to ask one thing, Why do you think those women that you were saying took their children way from their father? Maybe, you are missing some points. Wink
rx9876
icebox27 wrote:
As a man, you know for the fact that women are weaker than you. Right?


Actually, I don't think so.
Your opinions might be taken as male chauvinism.

Generally speaking,
men are stronger than women physically, but not always stronger in economy, parenting, etc. .

I consider the increasing of single parents who are divorced is not because of one of them in the relationship is weak, but they are both too strong.

Progressive ( or Aggressive ) people might attract each other in the beginning easily,
but they are not easy to get alone in the long term relationship,
because too many conflicts in their daily life.

The couples who can switch the leadership without problems is better than those who can't do it.
watersoul
icebox27 wrote:
Not actually,
Not actually what?
Quote:
Did I forget to say NO Offense meant if you did not do it?
No offense taken, just pointing out the mistakes in your wild generalisation about men and women.
Quote:
Well I admire you anyway, the fact that you stood up and face your responsibility as a father, and she's not selfish to take your son away from you.
No admiration required, just fortunate enough to be a working part of my sons upbringing.
Quote:
However I'm still standing for my opinion as I have seen those cases from my friends and ladies around the world.
So the few cases you have seen represent all single parent cases in the world? Perhaps you should research it a little more, there have been plenty of studies carried out by many social research groups, including looking at cultural differences.
Quote:
As a man, you know for the fact that women are weaker than you. Right?
If you are referring to physical strength then usually men are stronger than women, but not always.
What has that got to do with anything though? Are you suggesting that men should use the threat of physical violence to force the mother of their child to either stay with them, or allow access?
That would be a difficult position to defend but the only relevance I can see to the topic when you describe women as 'weaker'.
Are you from a repressive backward country where women are controlled by force or are you just immature?
Quote:
Just I want to ask one thing, Why do you think those women that you were saying took their children way from their father?
Many many differing reasons as I explained in my earlier reply. I'm still waiting for you to address the point I threw back at you:
watersoul wrote:
Every strong man could do it on his own, but many women won't let them.
or
Don't make him a father, if you wouldn't make him a husband
(although the getting married thing over cohabitating option is a bit dated, as is the 'strong man not letting them' line which implies control and dominance over the mother - 'wouldn't let her' ...really?!)
Quote:

Maybe, you are missing some points.
Which points exactly? Your apparent claim that weak men 'let' the mother of their children leave them, or that this could be prevented if a man employs his strength to stop them?

I look forward to your explanation about references to these weak men, or even some further detail about what exactly you think it is that 'strong' men 'let women do?
icebox27
Quote:
Every strong man could do it on his own, but many women won't let them.
or
Don't make him a father, if you wouldn't make him a husband


Women Wont let them why do you think? I mean there are reasons behind "why" right, They will not act like that if there are no reasons...Honestly Do you know some women who would prefer to be a single parent and take the responsibility on her own if she has really given a chance to have the father as well? There are problems that's why they acted like that..that's what I meant by you missing some points. WOMEN I believe will not act like that if those guys are ready for the responsibilities, financially, physically, mentally prepared to be a father.


Quote:
Don't make him a father, if you wouldn't make him a husband
I believe no ladies are wishing to have a baby with someone she doesn't love. In My opinion, Maybe those women had seen something wrong in their relationship that they decided to keep the baby on their own.

Quote:
before making a post which seems to imply that men generally are the bad ones when you see these 'lots of single moms out there
Make your research..They are lots.. and I'm not saying all Men are like that.. read between the lines.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
watersoul
icebox27 wrote:
Honestly Do you know some women who would prefer to be a single parent and take the responsibility on her own if she has really given a chance to have the father as well?
Yes, single parent financial benefits in the UK make it an option which is chosen by some women who I personally know.
Quote:
There are problems that's why they acted like that..that's what I meant by you missing some points. WOMEN I believe will not act like that if those guys are ready for the responsibilities, financially, physically, mentally prepared to be a father.
Perhaps that may be the case from the part of the world you live in and it leads you to blame men for 'single mothers' all over the world.
In the UK the situation is much more complex, and your disparaging view of men is a generalisation which can not be justified solely on your own anecdotal evidence from wherever it is you live.

Quote:
Don't make him a father, if you wouldn't make him a husband
Quote:
I believe no ladies are wishing to have a baby with someone she loves.
I don't understand what you are trying to express in that sentence. But I stand by my point to counter your own. Two people have sex, and if you are saying that a man should not have sex with a woman unless he is prepared to marry her if she becomes pregnant, then the reverse argument applies to women who choose to have sex with men.

I think the whole OP is ridiculous, but hey, I live in a society where we don't consider women as weak, or men as having any rights to 'let' women do things. Perhaps your sugar coated world will fade one day when you realise that yes, some single mothers choose that as a tactical move, and actively deny any access to the the children for the fathers.

*Edit*
Here's an example of women choosing to have a child while single, even avoiding the sex part...
New conceptions: single mothers by sperm donation
Quote:
This group of women has been widely criticised for the pursuit of a non-traditional path to parenthood which ultimately, it is argued, deprives children of the right to know, and have a relationship with, their biological father. In fact, concerns are raised not only by politicians and the wider public, but by professionals working in fertility treatment services. - See more at: http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussion/new-conceptions-single-mothers-by-sperm-donation#sthash.AVPhaDaw.dpuf

The world is a far more complex place than our own perceptions of what we may or may not think is 'normal'
watersoul
icebox27 wrote:
I believe no ladies are wishing to have a baby with someone she doesn't love. In My opinion, Maybe those women had seen something wrong in their relationship that they decided to keep the baby on their own.

Ah, I understand now after your edit.
Maybe they just had sex with a man who they had no intention of being in a relationship with, then unexpectedly became pregnant.
Do people not have recreational sex where you are from, or only with people they intend to marry?
It is common to have sex just for the sake of mutual pleasure in the UK, perhaps where you come from it is only while in a relationship, but I doubt it, maybe you have a perspective of the world which goes no further than your own local life 'bubble'.

You still haven't really explained what relevance your 'women are weaker than men' has to any of this discussion though Rolling Eyes
loveandormoney
icebox27 wrote:
Just wondering why there are lots of single moms out there. Many of them were abandoned by their partners.. There is a saying "Man can't live without a woman" but actually some of them left their women just because they got pregnant.. No offense meant.. If your not one of them. I know it takes Two to Tango, but I believe they should both stand and face the responsibilities.. Every strong woman can do it on her own, but a stronger man wouldn't let her. Confused



Quote:



Just wondering why there are lots of single moms out there. Many of them were abandoned by their partners.. There is a saying "Man can't live without a woman" but actually some of them left their women just because they got pregnant.. No offense meant.. If your not one of them. I know it takes Two to Tango, but I believe they should both stand and face the responsibilities.. Every strong woman can do it on her own, but a stronger man wouldn't let her.



This is right.
A woman wants sex and the man is running away.
A woman wants kissing: The boy man is running away?
A woma is pregnant, the man is SCREAMING and running away.
Men are also afraid of children.
Yes.
You are right.

And second: Men love violence.
watersoul
loveandormoney wrote:

This is right.
A woman wants sex and the man is running away.
A woman wants kissing: The boy man is running away?
A woma is pregnant, the man is SCREAMING and running away.
Men are also afraid of children.
Yes.
You are right.

And second: Men love violence.


Haha, oh I've never seen so much ridiculous generalisation in a single topic!
I'm walking away and not at all interested in commenting further here, I think most rational people will see the comments for what they are without any help from me Razz
loveandormoney
Quote:

Haha, oh I've never seen so much ridiculous generalisation in a single topic!
I'm walking away and not at all interested in commenting further here, I think most rational people will see the comments for what they are without any help from me


Thank You for the flowers.
Never I saw women hitting their husbands.

But I was reading a lot from women here in the board
who a left after sex
because he was afraid.
Vanilla
The lack of women in a topic like this is disturbing. So let me join the conversation.

First of all, I believe that a lot of pregnancies happen by sheer accident. People these days don't have sex to make babies, they have sex because tis awesome. That said, you'll see a lot of single moms because you see, tis hard to get rid of a pregnancy in countries where abortion is not legal. So the reason why you'll see more single moms than single dads is pretty simple: we're forced to keep a pregnancy for 8-9 months and a lot can happen during these months. The father could be someone you had sex with during one night and never saw him again. Or he could be someone that the mom regrets having sex with and don't want to tell him about the child. The possibilities are endless.

On the other hand, you have cases where the country allows abortion and the mom won't perform it because of a lot of reason (religion, guilty, other people telling you what to do in general etc.). And there are the cases where the mom wants to raise the kid on her own because that's what she believe to be the best for her kid. So as you all can see, it's not so simplistic. So pretty please, stop generalizing.

icebox27 wrote:
As a man, you know for the fact that women are weaker than you. Right?


I'm a girly girl, I'm short and, according to you, I'm weaker than men. But this didn't stop me from beating the ever living crap of two guys who tried to touch me without my consent. So think again before saying something like that, ok?
loveandormoney
Quote:


First of all, I believe that a lot of pregnancies happen by sheer accident.


NO
NO
NO
Men like to say this
because many men hate the word responsibility.
Maybe they do not like to be responsible.

So men say
my ten children are accidents.
They are proud to say this.
And the woman has to watch for the children
during weekend and he is watching basketball with his friends.
standready
Ok, I will be the prude here. Either a) be responsible and use protection or b) just don't do it. laugh
Yes, it is wonderful but also has a lot of responsibility not to mention what you can possibly catch from a partner.
loveandormoney
Responsibilty is a good word.
People, who do not like responsibilty
they do not like relationships.

So easy it is
to describe love.

Merry Xmas.
Lady31
It's never right to leave women because they're pregnant but it's no fair to blame men and same goes to women for the SHITuation. My point is, why would you let yourself have sex and get pregnant to someone whom do you not even sure that he's gonna father the child. For me there is no such thing as accident in having babies because there is a thing called "brain" that is primarily used for thinking. Unless you're too clueless that the man doesn't even like/love you coz if he does he'll stay by your side and will take full responsibility for his actions.

I'm not defending men here, it's just that sometimes lots of women are acting as if they're the victim, just because they're pregnant when in fact undesirable events can be prevented if you allow yourself to think before doing anything.

Pointing fingers to others doesn't necessarily make you right.

So before having sex try to think of the possible consequences or are the both of you ready to have a child and be responsible with your actions.

I am a woman, I believe that in love, sex and relationship you have to use your brain, never take an action if in the end you're the one who's left sobbing in the corner . You had, have and will have choices it's really up to you what you choose to take.
watersoul
@Lady31 - Excellent first post, just donated my last 3.83 coins (which I just discovered I had) to you...good luck bringing a friendly and honest discussion life-raft to Frihost Smile

*Edit*
Frihost would have been a much nicer and probably more successful place if there had been more female members. Such a pity the owner never reigned the alpha keyboard dogs in.
loveandormoney
Lady31 wrote:
It's never right to leave women because they're pregnant but it's no fair to blame men and same goes to women for the SHITuation. My point is, why would you let yourself have sex and get pregnant to someone whom do you not even sure that he's gonna father the child. For me there is no such thing as accident in having babies because there is a thing called "brain" that is primarily used for thinking. Unless you're too clueless that the man doesn't even like/love you coz if he does he'll stay by your side and will take full responsibility for his actions.

I'm not defending men here, it's just that sometimes lots of women are acting as if they're the victim, just because they're pregnant when in fact undesirable events can be prevented if you allow yourself to think before doing anything.

Pointing fingers to others doesn't necessarily make you right.

So before having sex try to think of the possible consequences or are the both of you ready to have a child and be responsible with your actions.

I am a woman, I believe that in love, sex and relationship you have to use your brain, never take an action if in the end you're the one who's left sobbing in the corner . You had, have and will have choices it's really up to you what you choose to take.





's never right to leave women because they're pregnant
What is the reason of leaving a pregnant woman?
Another man is the father?
We did not talk about babyschedule?
Or does he only want to be the bad guy?
Da Rossa
Yeah unfortunately many man, the youngest in particular, but some older too (from 35-45 years old) are only there to enjoy the good part of the relationship. When the good part produces its results, then they realise the whole thing. Having a baby was supposed to be a blessing and not a terror. They should face it. After all, what were they doing with their partners in the first place?
loveandormoney
Da Rossa wrote:
Yeah unfortunately many man, the youngest in particular, but some older too (from 35-45 years old) are only there to enjoy the good part of the relationship. When the good part produces its results, then they realise the whole thing. Having a baby was supposed to be a blessing and not a terror. They should face it. After all, what were they doing with their partners in the first place?



only there to enjoy the good part of the relationship

YOU ARE FUNNY

The girls wash their feet?
Da Rossa
Please, post things with sense, loveandormoney.
Deline
Vanilla wrote:
The lack of women in a topic like this is disturbing. So let me join the conversation.

First of all, I believe that a lot of pregnancies happen by sheer accident. People these days don't have sex to make babies, they have sex because tis awesome. That said, you'll see a lot of single moms because you see, tis hard to get rid of a pregnancy in countries where abortion is not legal. So the reason why you'll see more single moms than single dads is pretty simple: we're forced to keep a pregnancy for 8-9 months and a lot can happen during these months. The father could be someone you had sex with during one night and never saw him again. Or he could be someone that the mom regrets having sex with and don't want to tell him about the child. The possibilities are endless.

On the other hand, you have cases where the country allows abortion and the mom won't perform it because of a lot of reason (religion, guilty, other people telling you what to do in general etc.). And there are the cases where the mom wants to raise the kid on her own because that's what she believe to be the best for her kid. So as you all can see, it's not so simplistic. So pretty please, stop generalizing.

icebox27 wrote:
As a man, you know for the fact that women are weaker than you. Right?


I'm a girly girl, I'm short and, according to you, I'm weaker than men. But this didn't stop me from beating the ever living crap of two guys who tried to touch me without my consent. So think again before saying something like that, ok?


Totally agree with Vanilla. Here in Brazil abortion is a really complicated subject and also a huge health problem.

However, that is not the only reason for women to be single moms. There are many point of views for this conversation, and one of them is: maybe she wanted to be a single mom, and it is still a strange thing for some people.

That's because we are in a society who still believe that women should get married and pregnant and have sex with only one man in their lives. According to some religion and tradition, women should depend on men.

That has changed, as we are getting more independent and still fighting for equal rights. One thing that irritates me a lot is that here people usually put all the responsibility and the blame on the woman if she gets pregnant by accident. It takes two people to make the sex, and the baby.
Da Rossa
Quote:
Here in Brazil abortion is a really complicated subject and also a huge health problem


Just one thing, I'm well aware that it takes two people to make a baby. And yes, there are FDP men (sons of bitches) that just leave the woman with the baby on her lap. And yes, there are still men from the caves here in our country that think prevention is 100% the woman's duty. But when she gets pregnant, the issue turns completely. It ceases to be about their relationship and it starts to be about the life of a human being. So no matter how bad the circumstances were in order for the woman to become pregnant, no matter at all if you get my point. Abortion is not a public health issue like advocates of female rights such as Debora Diniz (maybe you know her) likes to say. Abortion is about a moral decision made upon a life of a being that is one hundred percent defenseless. The women can brag about their conquests, but at the time the hype of a 'newly' conquered right becomes more important than human life, then the world is lost. Truly lost.
loveandormoney
Da Rossa wrote:
Please, post things with sense, loveandormoney.


Greetings to Your island in the sun.

Maybe You start a webcam and look into the reality.

60% or more of all relatiionships in USA and Europe
are
Mother and Son.
He is washing his feet and he likes to scream.

So if the world did change yesterday
and there is a husband
respecting his wife

I WOULD BE SO HAPPY!



Thank You very much.
Ankhanu
Da Rossa wrote:
Please, post things with sense, loveandormoney.

This is getting close to becoming an official moderation request...
loveandormoney
Ankhanu wrote:
Da Rossa wrote:
Please, post things with sense, loveandormoney.

This is getting close to becoming an official moderation request...


Yes.
Thank You.

We should talk about
is it allowed in this forum to talk about reality.

If it is not allowed to talk about real humans,
then I am very sorry.
Ankhanu
Reality is fine... and it generally makes sense.
I recognize there's a language barrier at play, but, please do make more effort to be coherent (especially if you're going to tout that you have such lofty insights).
loveandormoney
Reality is fine... and it generally makes sense.
I recognize there's a language barrier at play, but, please do make more effort to be coherent (especially if you're going to tout that you have such lofty insights).


Good Morning
Thank You for answer.
I like reality.

My English is very bad.
So I am sorry.
My mother language is more worse.

What do You want do say with the word "general" ?


What do I want to say:

Two partners are happy always.
One boss or chief or teacher or preacher
and one student
living together
is bad
out of my experience in reality.
One level happy married
Two levels Teacher amd student marry bad relationship.

Please contradict me.
Da Rossa
Quote:
60% or more of all relatiionships in USA and Europe
are
Mother and Son.
He is washing his feet and he likes to scream.


In the meantime, please don't pollute the topic with such nonsenses. You're sending people away from this nice place.
loveandormoney
Then let us talk about illussion? What illussion is the best?+
Video?
TV?
Movies?

Or why there is a problem in the western world:
Why do most men leave her wife when she is pregnant?

75% of one parent realtionships in Western Countries are
woman and child or woman and children.

Why?
Because during she is pregnant, he is running away.

Why do men do this?
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