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What is the logic of creationism and the original sin?





ratanegra
I mean, the belief is that God is perfect and as such, he can create the most perfect of things. However, he still creates an imperfect creature than can fail (and does at the end). He knows this, and it is intentional in some way. However, He still punishes humans for being disobedient. Then he proceeds to demand that he be worshipped lest we burn in eternal fire. What is the logic of all this? If he could, why didn't he? Was it cruelty?
badai
you are low in point, just ask admin to reset. no need to spam the forum with rubbish posts.
Ankhanu
badai wrote:
you are low in point, just ask admin to reset. no need to spam the forum with rubbish posts.
While the OP is working to bring his points up, the question is most certainly a valid one within theological circles. I would suggest showing how the idea is rubbish, rather than just asserting it.

I think the answer is somewhat obvious, but, being the Faith forum, the Assumptions that the story is real needs to be taken into account. Given God's common attributes of omniscience and omnipresence, I can only assume that God approached this subject knowing exactly how it would turn out... how could he not if he were all-knowing? Being all-powerful, he could have chosen to avoid the problem, but opted to allow it to unfold, and it was an intentional choice... making the "betrayal" inevitable, and thereby the punishment unjust.
We are God's playthings...
nickfyoung
The theological term is Supralapsarianism which is the logical order of God's decrees in his mind before the creation of anything.

Quote:
The logical order of God's decrees in Calvinist theology is the study of the logical order (in God's mind, before Creation) of the decree to ordain or allow the fall of man and reprobation in relation to his decree to elect and save sinners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_order_of_God%27s_decrees
Bluedoll
ratanegra wrote:
I mean, the belief is that God is perfect and as such, he can create the most perfect of things. However, he still creates an imperfect creature than can fail (and does at the end). He knows this, and it is intentional in some way. However, He still punishes humans for being disobedient. Then he proceeds to demand that he be worshipped lest we burn in eternal fire. What is the logic of all this? If he could, why didn't he? Was it cruelty?



I did a search for original sin in the bible and I could not find it, neither can I find creationism but that might be do to the fact that these ideas come from people that read the bible. I just wanted to make this point to show that there are many “translations” and ideas about “the logic of God.”

What we do read in the bible is that God is perfect, not omniscience and omnipresence. It is important to see a distinction of what different ideas do say.

Deuteronomy 32:4

The rock: his acts are perfection!
No doubt about it: all his ways are right!
He’s the faithful God, never deceiving;
altogether righteous and true is he.


Notice the writer here is describing God as a rock and that his acts are perfection. We could describe a talented artist the same way.



To answer your first question, would be to cause all the other ideas to fall into place. Why is the mirror not perfectly straight? I use that comparison in regards to imperfect humankind.

It is because of free will. It is not that perfection (artwork of the artist) is not possible with mankind it is the fact that there is a choice involved as well as capability.

Yes, I suppose, God could have made mankind unfeeling robots that would do everything they were told but God choose to give free will to mankind
nickfyoung
Bluedoll
Quote:
God choose to give free will to mankind


I can't find that in the Bible either. There is mention of freewill offerings and various choices but the concept of freewill in man doesn't seem to be there. You were a slave to sin and now are a slave to righteousness. That is in the Bible which does seem to contradict the notion of man having a freewill.
redhakaw
God being perfect does not necessarily mean that God will always create perfect things.

why don't we go back to the Word of God? In Genesis 1-2 since we are talking about creation, when God created all the things in the first 5 days, He said that it was "good", He did not say "perfect", even when He created man, He said "very good", not "perfect".

We must understand that the only One perfect being is the One who is eternal. And as we are being perfected, we also receive eternity, perfection. Today we are not yet perfect, but we are being perfected.
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