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Did we land on the Moon?





chasbeen
Yes we did.
Vanilla
Yes we did, I agree with. I thought you were going to elaborate on how the whole "man landing on the moon" thing was staged by the USA because "they were afraid the soviets did it first" and yadda yadda... I think you know what I'm talking about. Very Happy

This "landing on the moon fraud" is pretty common among commies here in my country.
IceCreamTruck
It's not a question to me if we did, it's will we go back?!?!?! It's likely that only autonomous robots will visit the moon in the near future, as the expense of putting another man on the moon is nearly impossible to justify.

Have no fear, however, as they are planning a life on mars reality tv show. They are even taking applications, but don't pack your bags just yet as it's a one way trip. They're taking people too mars, but not bringing them back. It's likely that those who go will die there.

I guess another real question is: Slow death on mars, or slow death on earth? Smile
deanhills
This thread reminds me we haven't been up there in a while? Governments cutting budgets, etc?
standready
Yes, the US did so did Russia.
Can we do it again? Yes! The added expensive to carry and 'risk to life' will probably prevent future landings especially with great control of remote vehicles,
chasbeen
I'm one of the older members.
I remember watching Neil put his foot down before going to school.
The TV was a black and White one and the year was 1969.
If you were not around then you missed the feeling when it all happened.
IceCreamTruck
chasbeen wrote:
I'm one of the older members.
I remember watching Neil put his foot down before going to school.
The TV was a black and White one and the year was 1969.
If you were not around then you missed the feeling when it all happened.


I watched every minute I could of the mars landings, as that is extremely interesting even though no human has set foot there yet. We will soon, however.
chasbeen
Yes as I understand it the Mars thing is just for 1 way trips. I won't believe it until the first rocket takes off. One in a series I believe, before the first manned one.
SonLight
I seriously doubt whether Mars One will ever send anyone to Mars. However if they are successful with their PR, they may have a hit TV show which will pay for lots of research about how to send people to Mars. They may well send buildings and other components to Mars also, which can be used by Nasa or whoever does finally send some one. If the research continues to the point where a rocket ship can be build on Mars, mostly remotely, then Nasa and Mars One might ultimately partner to send the first humans to Mars, with a round trip guaranteed but with the option of staying there for a substantial amount of time.
IceCreamTruck
SonLight wrote:
with a round trip guaranteed but with the option of staying there for a substantial amount of time.


Sign me up! I'd love it!
spinout
1. I am sure that man landed on the moon!
2. I am sure that the photos are fake!

Ok, usually it is one or the either... but I am thinking both!

Fake photos, why you may ask...

because the actual ones reveiled more than the goverment wanted...!!
IceCreamTruck
spinout wrote:
because the actual ones reveiled more than the goverment wanted...!!


Hmmmmmm
Insanity
I'm pretty sure there was some device that was left on the Moon where you can aim a laser and have it bounce back, proving that humans were up there and left it there. This is something I think anyone can do with the right equipment (a laser or something), so I can't see how people think otherwise. Also, there are so many other forms of evidence, from photographs and videos and current capabilities to send people to the international space station every year or so.
catscratches
Sure we did! I saw a documentary on it called A Grand Day Out.
SonLight
Insanity wrote:
I'm pretty sure there was some device that was left on the Moon where you can aim a laser and have it bounce back, proving that humans were up there and left it there. This is something I think anyone can do with the right equipment (a laser or something), so I can't see how people think otherwise. Also, there are so many other forms of evidence, from photographs and videos and current capabilities to send people to the international space station every year or so.


There were indeed reflectors left on the moon, which bounce laser light back and allow precision ranging of the moon, to within a few centimeters. The Russions also left the same type of tri-corner reflectors, with one of their unmanned missions. While their presence is pretty strong evidence that rockets landed where NASA says they landed, they are not proof that men were on the rocket.

Because of the high noise level involved, using the reflectors for ranging or even just proving they are there is a highly technical operation requiring a major laboratory. So even that proof requires trusting the "experts" who, if you believe in a conspiracy, could be in on it.
BigGeek
chasbeen wrote:
I'm one of the older members.
I remember watching Neil put his foot down before going to school.
The TV was a black and White one and the year was 1969.
If you were not around then you missed the feeling when it all happened.


I was 10 years old at the time and remember that day very well. Great event!!

When I was in College in the early 80's I had seen a picture taken by a telescope that showed the American flag and the rover left behind from the first mission. That plus the mirrors left behind that they bounce lasers off of (other posts mentioned this as well) should all be pretty conclusive evidence that someone had to have landed there to leave the equipment behind!!

Either that or the Secret government took it up there just to fool us all Cool

I love conspiracy theories they are always a great read. I read once that the Nazi's had developed a time machine in 1938, I looked up at a friend of mine after reading that and told him such, in unison we both exclaimed.....then why didn't they go forward in time and find out that they lost the war?

Uh yeah.....the aliens did it Shocked
chasbeen
BG
Do you remember thinking after seeing what happened in 1969
How long Mars?
It's all been a bit of an anti climax. I'm wondering if I will see that when it happens?
ocalhoun
chasbeen wrote:

It's all been a bit of an anti climax.

It's almost as if, without a high-tech enemy to posture against, we lose the overwhelming drive to show off our technical prowess...

The dark side of the moon would make a great place for telescopes...
And if spacecraft could be built with mostly lunar-local materials, it would be a great place for a (space)shipyard...
Other than those, I see no compelling reason to go back there at all... ever.
chasbeen
Where still burning fossil fuel to get places. It won't be until a more advanced form of propulsion is adopted that we will be able to make any significant journeys.
Can we emulate the SS Enterprise and Warp factor 9?
grofet
I don't think human ever land on the moon.

If they did it, there will be so many travel agent offer travelling to moon package with affordable cost right now with better technology. Technology in 1969-1972 is not strong enough to send human on the moon i think. We never see successful another human landing again after year 2000. Human landing on the moon is only for soviet union and united states cold war conspiracy.

Maybe someday in the future human can really-really land on the moon with authentic audio video recording. Our technology is always developed so it's not something impossible to make it true. You have to believe that we live in world with many conspiracy, so we're not getting pure wysiwyg. Just like live in the matrix world.
Nyasro
Yeah sure, We landed on Moon
BigGeek
chasbeen wrote:
BG
Do you remember thinking after seeing what happened in 1969
How long Mars?
It's all been a bit of an anti climax. I'm wondering if I will see that when it happens?


If I remember the news and science magazines were all a buzz with the next big journey being Mars, well here we are 44 years later and still no Mars landing.

YES - It has been anti climatic not to have gone to Mars in the last 44 years!!

Ocalhoun is right it seems that with no cold war or no world war the progress of technology slows down. Like we have to be up against the wall under the threat of annihilation to make any real progress toward these sorts of things.

OK as far as us still burning oil as a primary source of fuel I fault the oil companies as well as the Government, the oil companies have bought up and shelved almost every viable form of propulsion technology that has come along that can compete with gasoline as a fuel source. I am not a conspiracy theory kind of guy but I am a Geophysicist and well aware of Big Oil's behavior over the last 45 years.

I do not believe that space is a vacuum devoid of energy a belief that dominates the Black Hole theory and the gravitational filed model of the universe. We know that space is teaming with plasma in the form of solar energy. Plasma being the most highly charged electrical substance known to man exists in space in abundance. I honestly believe that when science stops chasing black holes and starts seriously looking at this energy in space that they will discover a means to use if for propulsion and we will no longer need to store mass amounts of fuel for a long space journey, but we will be able to use what is there and available for long trips like one to Mars. But that is my whacked out theory and usually criticized badly by scientists in the field today!!

Beam me up Scotty.....Warp Factor 9 Mr. Sulu!!

As far as the star ship Enterprise in concerned the damn thing always has the shields failing or is losing power from the warp drive, seems like the old Star Trek episodes they were exploring the Galaxy in an Edsel!!!! Laughing
Quiviro
Try to say to Buzz Aldrin he didn't land in the moon and you'll receive this:
http://youtu.be/tRBesDx1WQc?t=1m19s

Is there any better proof?
SonLight
Quiviro wrote:
Try to say to Buzz Aldrin he didn't land in the moon and you'll receive this:
http://youtu.be/tRBesDx1WQc?t=1m19s

Is there any better proof?



Good video, thanks for posting it. I don't see that it proves much of anything either way, though. The guy starts razzing Aldrin, who responds by punching him -- yes, even before the last words are said. The uploader of the video apparently thought it "proved" that the moon trip was faked, because Aldrin got angry so quickly(?). Either way, Aldrin would have got angry and who could predict at what point he would lose control and punch the guy.

The mental disconnect of some disbelievers in the moon landing is more interesting to me than whether we actually went or not. I can understand someone being exposed to only one side of the story and believing what they were told. It is unfortunate that many simply will not consider any evidence from the other side. Although I think they did walk on the moon, I like to ask "what if" questions. Exactly what rockets went up, and where did they go if no men walked on the moon?

So far I can conclude that an Apollo rocket did land on the moon, else the radar reflectors wouldn't be there. That doesn't prove any humans set foot there though; there are also two Russian reflectors on the moon also, left by missions that we know were unmanned. Probably some ham radio operators actually did hear astronauts talking from somewhere in moon orbit; they claim to have detected doppler shifts in the transmission frequency consistent with a lunar orbit. That doesn't prove they actually landed, though.

While I believe the simplest explanation of the evidence is that NASA mostly told the truth about the mission, I don't doubt that the US government would have faked it if they thought they could get away with it and were unable actually land men on the moon. I am open to new evidence in the matter. I would take seriously anyone who addressed the technical issues I know about and still believed that we did not go the last mile and leave footprints in the moon dust.
watersoul
I have been privy to embargoed and restricted information during periods of central government/civil service during my life. I have also regrettably been involved in duties which were clearly not in the spirit of current law or upcoming legislative changes, secrets 'the public' should not be told.
With such things being normal working practice at the lower levels of the machine I worked at, it could be reasonable to suspect that the highest levels have the same official considerations of the public and it's 'need' to know anything.

For that reason I take the official moon story as true with the caveat that I do not know this to be the case due to my obvious lack of primary research, or access, into the claims.

...I'm no conspiracy nut though, I just keep an open mind Wink
kaysch
Many conspiracy theories follow the same scheme. Here's how:

1. Invent a statement

- Well-covered events such as 9/11 / landing on the moon / the holocaust / climate change / an electoral outcome never happened or had a different background
- A certain celebrity never died or - if they did - they died quite differently from what we think: Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, Adolf Hitler, John F. Kennedy, Lady Di, Jesus Christ and so on.
- Some developments happen quietly in the dark: Aliens have taken over / Obama was born in Kenya / Atlantis is round the corner / the Loch Ness monster is alive / there are construction plans for a time machine

2. Find someone to blame for having published the wrong story so far

- Choose from a supposedly evil group acting in the dark, such as an intelligence agency / the US government / the Vatican / Jews / freemasons / the mafia / people planning a plot

3. Confuse people by spreading doubt

- Offer information that nobody can verify: publish a blurred photo of a flying saucer / produce an audio tape with sounds by the Loch Ness monster / take a photo of Hitler's teeth
- Assemble information and quotes by celebrities out of context to support your point: Buzz Aldrin punching an obnoxious guy / Obama making jokes at a fund raising event / Benjamin Netanjahu hesitating when asked a question during a press conference
- If you can't prove anything yourself, ask others to prove their story. If they don't (because it is impossible or because they refuse to), accuse them of hiding something and being part of the conspiracy

4. Blame others for not accepting the truth

- Scientists are not "open" enough / mankind is not ripe yet / your opponents must have been offered a lot of money to hide the truth

5. Find a media strategy to spread your idea

- A blog, the newspaper, radio, TV - whatever.


One brilliant conspiracy theory is the "Bielefeld conspiracy". It's a small town in Germany, but - following the theory - it does not exist. The theory makes fun of the way a conspiracy theory works. I love it...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_Conspiracy
watersoul
I'm with you kaysch Smile
...my mind will always remain open though, never indoctrinated.
Bluedoll
In order to land on a moon you need to take off. What started out to be a space race ended up turning into an international space station. Now we are poised above all that confusion in the past but still wondering if anything actually happened? Maybe, it was all about the invention of teflon pans?

Well, at least something took off.
Radar
IceCreamTruck wrote:
It's not a question to me if we did, it's will we go back?!?!?! It's likely that only autonomous robots will visit the moon in the near future, as the expense of putting another man on the moon is nearly impossible to justify.


Recent news may suggest otherwise. People have started talking about a lunar colony, sending a person to Mars... it's not a space race, but suddenly there are some prominent figures deciding that it's time to look outside of our planet again.
Afaceinthematrix
This conspiracy theory tends to have about as much credibility as any other. It has about as much credit as "climate change is a hoax," "9/11 truthers," "Sandy Hook was done by the government to push gun control," etc.

The fact that we've been to the moon has clearly been proven by mirrors placed on there. Also, the arguments are so trivial that even the Mythbusters managed to bust them.
manfer
kaysch wrote:

Well-covered events


Manipulation of information is easy when you control the media. It happened in the past, happens nowadays, and will continue happening in the future. Just saying.

And I don't mean we have to believe in any conspiracy theory, just that not always something that seems well-covered is really well-covered. Misinformation for money benefit (all in actual world society is ruled by money) is no so uncommon.

Afaceinthematrix wrote:
The fact that we've been to the moon has clearly been proven by mirrors placed on there.


I'm not telling with this that US astronauts have not landing on the moon but how the mirrors placed on the moon is an evidence of men landing on the moon when russians have done the same with unmanned trips?. That doesn't seem to be an irrefutable evidence.

Anyway I don't think many people have any doubt about men landing on the moon. It is supposed that 12 men had landed in six different missions and not just only Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin.
diarte
Magnificent desolation! What kind of monster could ever lie on something so epic?

Yes we did!
SonLight
diarte wrote:
Magnificent desolation! What kind of monster could ever lie on something so epic?

Yes we did!


The United States government, of course! I don't believe the landing was a hoax, but I do believe our government would have lied about it in a minute if they had been unable to go, provided that:

1). It was in their interest to do so, and considered important.
2). They thought they could get away with it.

Number two would not have been true, unless for some strange reason the USSR also wanted the world to believe we went. Had that been the case, the story would have probably broken shortly after the collapse of the USSR.

There is plenty of evidence that men at least flew to the vicinity of the moon. Consider the Apollo 13 mission, which is unlikely to have been faked. To claim they had to circle the moon would have put their lives in greater jeapardy. The mirrors say we landed craft, either manned or unmanned, on the moon on at least two occasions. Radio and telescope monitoring say we sent spacecraft and talked to men or a very clever recording beyond near-Earth orbit and probably close to the moon.
Radar
I hold to the idea that we just aren't that good at keeping secrets.

I think it's much harder to believe that we didn't make it to the moon, instead managed to have a brilliant hoax, when decades later we have people skydiving from the upper atmosphere. To think otherwise would require an explanation of the failure to hide various mistakes from history, and why with our level of technology we haven't gone to the moon.
ratanegra
No, we didn't land on the moon. Someone landed on the moon, but it wasn't us. They were humans, yes, and they came from Earth and from the same country as many, but still it was not us, it was them. We were in our houses watching TV, browsing the internet, cleaning dishes, or whatever, but not landing on the moon.
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