Seriously guys, Flash takes ages to download on dialup - luckily I have 8Mgbit cable - and it just takes away from the ease of use of the site. You can have fantastic sites without flash, look a Apple, MSN etc, they don't use FLASH!!
So next time you design a site - DON'T USE FLASH!
hmm i think flash is a great format why shouldn't you use it...
you have many functions you can't make without...
and well the high loading time.. i think that isn't a problem in some years anymore...
Flash has got some advantages. But if you do use Flash, I think it's more of a presentation site, other than a news/updates site. I find updating a Flash site too much of a chore (or maybe I'm just doing it the wrong way).
But hey, you could always use Flash snippets to spice up a page.
Isnt a problem? excuse me mr I live in a city... but some of us live out of the smog and Personally in in the Hunter Valley, Australia and we cant get much more than dialup. Its just not physically possible.
I'd use flash but I'm lazy and I don't know how to do it.
Honestly, how lame am I?
flash has its good and bad points,
its good as a banner, but i would never use it for a whole site
even i feel that when we use flash search engine does,t read the flash file which may arise problem in ranking
I think you worded the poll wrong as abously no site NEEDS flash but i feel that it does make some sites(if done well) more intresting, im currently looking into making a flash site, hopes it works out.
I think Flash makes often make web sites cool, but I'm totally agreeing to that a web site should NOT be based on flash. But for games and banners and adertisements and other stuff like that, I think flash is ok to use.
i habe 2 sites and I use flash...
the flash effects is a great option to increase the site...
the experience to users is more significative with flash...
it's my opnion..
The only problem with Flash is that I can't find free editor for that.
But as people say flash effects is very beautiful and attractive.
Even though major sites don't use flash I think they do it because a lot of people don't use browsers that support flash. I personally love flash sites. Like pll said about these sites... www.2advanced.com or www.kigot.com look how good they look. It takes plenty of time and experience to make something even close to that. Pretty soon more site will be made like that. I want to see someone try to make a site like those without using flash.
well i think flash is not essential but looks good...a pretty page can be made with frontpage..
Rather a silly way to start off a poll, IMHO.
If you're against Flash usage then just say so, no need to post a poll with your first words being "don't use it".
Personally, I'm a great advocate of Flash. I think it gives a wonderful effect to a page, and can make a normal site look a lot more professional if the time is taken to do the programming properly.
As far as load up times go, your comments are not only biased, but also more than a little bit misleading.
Firstly, how many people are actually still on dialup connections? Certainly the minority these days. Going on your logic, should we all still be using steam powered generators, simply because Electricity is newer? I think not.
Loading times are also in part due to the content and the skill of the programmer of the site's content. There are many ways of reducing the file size and loading times in Flash. You don't need to load the entire site's Flash contents upon the initial entrance to the site. Split up the Flash files, stagger the loadings, and hide some of the loading processes into the background while using distraction. Also, if dialup people are your primary concern in life, then provide them with loading bars, or a purely html alternative entrance to the site.
Just to be derogatory about a product because of its common misuses is quite simply naive. Are your views based upon personal programming experience in Flash Applications, or are you simply commenting upon your observations of others work. If you have done a lot of work with Flash directly, and these are your findings, then I apologise, but you come across as someone that's slandering something simply because you don't understand it properly.
What else has suffered so, on the "don't use - it's new" agenda?
Here, let me help a little....
Windows.... ah well you got me on that one
My opinion is that form follows function.
A site totally made in flash is usually not a good idea but when you make e.g. a minisite promoting something, then flash is a nice way to keep it interesting.
I think so.
I do not like FrontPage at all. I have bad experience with it...
This is generally because FrontPage automatically deletes HTML code you actually works, but that FrontPage THINK is not valid.
And FrontPage also uses those components called "FrontPage components" who is only working with a server with FrontPage add ons installed.
This, I think, is bad because then the web site is no longer made with real HTML, and when FrontPage deletes "not valid" HTML, and then uses their own not-at-all-html components, i really get angry
I am not saying that it is not posssible to make awesome web sites with FrontPage, but I do not recommend it...
Personally I hate flash when it is used as a welcome page. It then asks you if you want to 'ENTER'. I wouldn't have clicked on/typed in the site if i didnt want to enter. Its waste of my time watching the flash animation.
nowadays the used of flash can make a website much better apearence
I like flash only when it is made well, and not all-around pop-up-bop-up juicy stuff. Personally, I would use it for some little spice-up, but macromedia is not free....
I myself am a very hardcore opponent of flash. Mostly because I dont know it but also coz its drawn, not coded, and for programmers like me, who are design challenged its a major headache. But one point which every one missed was SEO. How many falsh sites do you get in your search results. SE are really bad when it comes to flash
of course you need it...its the latest, but only use it for a static site...
Omly professionals should use Flash in their sites, amatuers stay away.
it really depends on what you're doing with it.
I agree that loading times should be kept to a minimum but you can make a great site using flash. Mind you, a total flash site is never good.
Try keeping xml to keep it light or getting the content through a php script.
If you don't know how, indeed, leave it to the professionals. They know how to blend form and function.
I think you're right bananaphone. Flash is way too 'snazzy'.
Flash can look good but it kills browsing. Tabs don't work, and sometimes back-forward don't work. That gets really annoying. And stupid little transitions that take like 5 seconds...I mean, that is a LONG time when you want to check something. But there are some decent flash sites, mostly by big companies.
I think flash animation and effects is a need in every site to add up to the existing boring design. I know, that it takes long for a site to download all the contents especially those that uses mainly flash for their sites, but the beauty of the site after all has been presented pays off the time you waited!
There is beauty in simplicity. There is also beauty in achieving a lot while using little resources.
no flash contents makes site very slow thats my opinion ..
Flash can actually save you alot of loading time, if you were to try to do animated effects using gif's or video, it'd be more than twice the size of file. Using vectors is a great idea.
Yeah... so how often do you see in reality a flash site being smaller than a normal site?
I only used Flash for my rotating logo because it's smaller than a GIF, and does transparency better. Other than that, I dont' need Flash on it. When I do make a Flash site, I always have an HTML alternative. I am currently redesigning my site, so it shouldn't look like it is for much longer. I am also looking to change hosts, as mine has gone from being free to wanting the charge monthly to have no ads or have you post 30 times a week for no ads. Not all of us have that much time
Yeah, do not use flash. It just messes your homepage up, it doesn't look that good. If you're goin' to use flash, then you have to be really skilled with it and make the whole homepage in flash, then it'll look really nice, and i mean really nice! If ur not that skilled (like me) then dont use it.
That's what i think!
Like others said, flash has its ups and downs. Personally, a bit of flash in a website is a good thing. But a site made ENTIRELY out of flash, that's not such a great idea. It can make the site look better, but it takes away certain aspects of a site. Say you are using Mozilla. You can't tab browse. And that's one of my favorite features of Mozilla Firefox. Another loss using a complete flash site is that a person can't copy the content directly (but this could also be considered a plus for some). The load times don't really bother me since I have cable, but I know a lot of people still use Dial-up, and I know how agonizing it can be to load up a flash page just for a couple of things. It can be VERY annoying. But overall, I think it would be good to use flash in certain parts of a site (navigation bar, logo), but not the whole site.
Well, that's not 100% true. It depends on how the Flash programmer puts together the site. Not all Flash sites have to be "one window" sites, although I'd agree that a vast percentage are. Remember though that Studio 8 is at last moving more along the standard Windows style object based programming, so it does open up a variety of different options for the programmer to exploit as well as the end user.
I'm still very much brushing up from MX2004 to version 8 at the moment, so I'd like to demonstrate but I'm the first to admit I'm still reading, researching, experimenting, and learning.
I think sites made in flash are great. They have very attractive features but then again lots of us have dial-up. For that reason if a site is going to be made entirely in flash then perhaps it should be available in regular html with no flash aswell.
I think flash is mostly unnecessary and too many sites use it when it is not needed. Like others have said it takes WAY to long on dial-up and alternatives are not normally provided.
But also design - when most people design a site using HTML they are focusing on CONTENT ie. text (everything except the HTML tags) and images , the focus is on WHATS ON THE WEBSITE.
However when designers use flash they focus more on DESIGN ie. looks and sounds etc, and focus more on WHAT THE SITE LOOKS, SOUNDS AND REACTS LIKE.
Unless you are practicing design skills I conclude you should use HTML. If you want a site based on content (the basis of basically all websites) then USE HTML!!!!
You can still get cool looking sites with HTML it just takes some imagination.
flash rocks ...... end of!
flash is amazing its way ahead of any other web design programmes like broadband is way ahead of dial up thats the dumbest thing iv ever heard any1 say ok flash isnt totallynecessary but it looks amazing if used right and the file sizes can be kept tiny if used right i say if you dont like flash because it takes long to load then stop bein a tight fisted scotsman an buy a faster connection then it wont effect you!
I used to have broadband (2 meg a sec!) and I have to admit it was cool but for most people it is unnecessary (unless you are downloading lots of media).
Flash is unnecessary on most sites!!!! Flash should be kept for animations, games and maybe some KIDS sites eg. http://www.jkrowling.com/en/index.cfm because kids like big colourful pages. They are however not very functional (note she has made an alternative). Just look how hard (well not that hard) it is to find the different sections of the site (above). It would be much quicker and easier to navigate if it was HTML.
I'm not saying flash isn't good... it's GREAT! But I don't think it is on website. On every things else ie. animations, games and kids sites HELL YEAH!!!
I use flash animations and games heaps!
ehhh flash is good. Its e next generation of interaction thru the web browser. imagine websites used to be text and text and more text, den came graphic, den came animations, video. flash is just the next evolution of doing a website.
of cos u dun do everything in flash, if ur site does not need interactivity with graphics and animation, if ur site just provide text based information, why bother to use flash. it eats up ur bandwidth, slower downloading.
so it still all goes down to wat the site is all about ...
I'll tell you why:
1. Technology is here to make our world more Beatifull, more Inviting and more Dynamic - like real life.
2. The Trick (for me) in building a good flash site is to makeit as light (in space) as possible. like it was a regular HTML Site. Using smart compact code )action script) and not templateded affecects that make your movie bigger and bigger.
3. About waiting for the Loading time - I agree that for the Dial-Up connection's people, it must be real annoying. but what can we do ?!?
Flash actually could speed up loading time - as it loads everything in the site as opposed to anything else which progessively loads. But anyways, no site needs Flash - but it does make it look a whole bunch nicer. Also impresses people - I'm actually teaching myself Flash right now but..
So yeah, Flash looks cool, is great, and I like it.
Flash, if you want to make flash then you have to download a 399 pound program, and flash is so hard to change once it is done.
You can get nearly the same effect with gif images that are animated. And some of the best websites don't have flash, google, yahoo, msn, hotmail.
So in my opinion flah is totally unnecessary
Another one that doesnt know what he is talking about, i hate why all these "enlighted" ppl come and comment on software or medium that they dont have slight clue about.
I advise you to go and check how a pro flash website looks, its all about dynamic content, its not drawn or put static within the flash, mostly its Flash+PHP+MySQL+XML
Google, Yahoo, MSN... those are portals, you dont use flash on portal sites. Flash is more of a presentation medium, why do you think every movie website is flash based.
PS.: I think Flash is the future, but thats just my personal opinion, only those amateurs that are OVER-USING it and ending up with >1MB flash websites that download static content with tons of cheesy effects on top of it are just not doin it justice. :/
The poll asks Does a site need flash? and the answers is easy: No
Does flash make a site look better? Maybe.
Some sites are made exciting with flash, like www.robyn.com, while others are just annoying.
I use ad-block in Firefox to get rid of banners and ads, so I basically block all flash content as a rule.
Presentation site Flash Good
Frequently updated site Flash Baaaaaaaad
WOW, i just went to www.2advanced.com and kigotix.com and it is awsome, the only problem was that kigotix took ages to load, compared to 2advanced.
i don't think you need flash ...;
even more, i'm trying to get the flash effect with pure html/php
(and its going great)
Flash shouldn't be used in a business website. Some clients have older computers and slower connections, so not a good idea. You are selling goods, not a website.
Perhaps, on entertianment, it will help promote the movie like www.aeonflux.com.
And, I want to add more. Having a good flash knowledge isn't enough. You need to have artistic talent to convey your works to the audience. You need to be creative. I might as well hire one to do the flash website for me. For HTML, it's fairly easy making a website with that. Anyone can do it.
Nobody mentioned the fact that is always looks the same (different browsers/platforms view it the same)
Flash is not slow - Flash itself isn't slow, it depends what size pics/vids/whetever is in it - and how good the person who designed it is.
I made my little site entirely in flash. It isn't needed, but I'm in the process of learning CSS and I think tables are garbage.
I'm assuming most of the ignorant comments are from people who don't know how to use it.
Let me preface this by saying I'm refering to websites trying to sell you something, or get you to do some other action. This doesn't apply to movie/entertainment/art websites or personal websites.
Flash can be used in some applications for good, but mostly it is not. Many sites are entirely made in Flash, which many times results in a site that is slow to load, has useless features for "coolness", and other problems.
Slow to load: Even if your users have broadband, it is quite possible that they pay extra so they don't have to wait for sites to load. Instead, it makes it just like we were back on dial up.
Useless features: Earlier, someone mentioned that one way to make it faster is to load things in the background while distracting the user with something else. The problem is that after the novelty wears off after one or two visits, users tire of always seeing the same thing. Most of all, users are after content. Don't put barriers like flash in the way. Don't get in the way of the sale.
Other problems: many times, the address stays the same, no matter what page people are on. If you want to bookmark the page, you can't--it just bookmarks the homepage. Flash looks cool, but often times you can't use it.
Check this page out: http://www.gillettefusion.com/ Looks cool, but try to find some real information like a phone number or a place to buy one.
For example, I've seen (and even been forced to make) sites with massive amounts of textual content, presented in pure Flash just to make a few interactive parts and some flashy animations to present it. Problem being, Flash was never good for long textual content. Even with Flash 8's "substantial" improvements, the text renderer is still subpar (often making for tiresome reading if your text consists of more than 10-20 words) and there's no real options for even simple typography.
If you want scalability AND layout for your content in Flash, you'll have to present it with an HTML textfield, limit yourself to rudimentary CSS rules, and live with render errors en masse (bold text right after a list item will make the bullet bold too, hover effects on links will cause unpredictable, sudden rewrapping of text etc. etc.). Besides that, you'll have to specifically work to get search engines to index your content, make it possible to print etc.
Small interactive Flash presentations can liven up a page which mainly consists of text content, but making entire sites in Flash... Leave that to the entertainment industry.
It really depends what you use flash for.
If it's just for a menu, obviously theres hundreds of ways to make it outside flash.
However, I have yet to see a java game thats as nice as ink link and such. Perhaps there are some, but probably harder to make.
Problems with Flash loading time is very exaggerated, and also can be easily redemied by the programmer.
All in all, anything not done right looks bad, as we well is overdoing it.
The more choices in tech that we can use, the better.
On the other hand, I've seen some really spectacular sites in Flash but unfortunately I was only able to enjoy them while surfing on a friend's computer who had high speed (still on dialup). Dialup users are a minority yes, but there's still considerable numbers of us out there. If you're absolutely sure you can afford to turn away any potential dialup users (or you don't think you're going to get any at all) then, sure take a whack at using a bit of Flash.
I have a flash site, I really like the look and how easy it is to update. For the people that have a "Dial-up" or crappy dsl I have also made a Low-band that they can click on and open that insted of going through the flash site. I understand that a lot of people don't have highspeed and its a easy way to for them to use the same site with out the flashy flash page.
Good thinking, mobe217... Where's your site, by the way?
Certainly no site NEEDS flash, one can build a perfectly awesome site from just html. However flash is capable of some very flashy things. (haha whoah, no pun intended)
I just designed a site for a client who wanted their entire site to be made in flash. This was fine because I also programmed a html version for dial up people and their content doesn't change often.
It doesn't need it, but somethings look better with it. Most things are just annoying. And if you are going to use it, add a preloader please!
its always nice to have a lively site...plain old images dont make it thatr lively...but a little of flash can take it along...
a little flash wont harm anythin.......like use it to make buttons....or use it to make your header shin a litlle or somthin....it only looks nice....
besides.... flash is not as heavy as ppl think it is.... it opens easy...
mind all of you who think it opens slow on dial-up.......i use dial-up...and i have no prob at allll.....its opens just like an image loads....it looks nice too......
Flash is like a $300 program.
I think it's more than $300....
did some fact finding
flash pro 8: $699
flash 8 basic: $399.....
You could always use Swish at $99 a pop if you're on a low budget. Never actually tried it out but it seems to be quite popular.
"Or you could also use the cracked version" (don't forget the spam)
I wonder how many of you were actually going to reply that...
Oh okay. That's good to know. Is it worth the 100 bucks?
not everyone has a 56kbps connection and a good site will include a preloader . i think flash looks good with html
Flash does make sites look good and make the webmaster look smart and creative. That's what I think. Though it's annoying to wait the loading time. Especially if you're living your life in places with slow internets even in cable and satellite.
But a flash banner is good.
I think flash is more to a presentation site. Not really for a site that's newslike. Does Yahoo use flash? I'm not really sure with their new look, seem a bit like flash. I think it also depends to the flash-builder, whether they are good to make it and still push the loading time down the minimum.
I once met a good flash site and it didn't take a long time to load. I have cable. But cable here is just a lie since the speed is just the same as dialups, the difference is i have it 24/7.
Since ISPs are evolving and, nowadays, we have very good connections (except for me, of course ), flash isn't so consuming. A website doesn't NEED flash but it certainly makes it a little more beautiful.
A whole site that's made in Flash would be pretty bad. But I only use flash for the buttons to spice 'em up a little. It just looks cool
Reading the posts has been fascinating. As a videographer/multimedia guy, Flash seems a no-brainer. Motion Grafx is a major part of my income. But I'm new to web projects and while I'm naturally drawn to Flash, I am beginning to understand the issues of things like download times.
I am learning Flash (and Dreamweaver) now, hopefully I'll be able to use both well and appropriately as time goes on.
By the way, Kool Moves is fairly cheap, $50 and does Flash animation stuff.
When used properly Flash can enhance a website. But using Flash just to use Flash can take away from a site and can cost you users.
I think that the use of Flash needs to be on a case by case basis. There are a lot of ways that you can make a site dynamic and visually appealling with out Flash and you save a lot of load time. While they are no longer the norm there are still a lot of people that only have dial-up for conne connection to the internet and waiting for a Flassh website to load will only cost you users unless the Flash is required because you are a Flash designer or you have a game or video that you are playing with Flash you have other alternatives.
All I am saying is that Flash IS NOT a neccessity on a website. It can add to a website if used properly and when needed.
in my opinion flash, if used propperlly, can make a site seem to load up faster then if it's. By making the site consist of more then just one single file which loads one file from the other and have interesting preloaders can make a site more alaborate in terms of design and action in the site and still keep the user interested in it
It all depends on who yoru site is aimed at.
Say your a graphic designer, and your clients are companies that specialise in advertising and such. If they can't afford cable, they can't afford me
However if it's a community site, which has many visitors of all sorts, then it should use less flash, maybe only for some enchancments, but not for the main interface.
IT's al a matter of who the site is geared to and who its made by.
no site NEEDS flash, unless of course you are squareEnix and are showing off the latest movie, game or something else.
The percentage of people that still use dial up is not really that high, but you do have to think about what you're audience would use.
I agree, flash does have it's advantages for some things. Animation is good, but if you don't NEED it, don't use it. It's not worth the load time no matter what kind of connection you have. Images that you can click are easy enough to make in code (html/xhtml/css). There's even programs you can use to help you with that, but coordinates are easily found in a program like paint. Image mapping is great. (message me if you'd like to know more about this alternative).
Interesting indeed. I'm currently a Multimedia student fixing to graduate in 2 quarters. I had the flash class about half a year ago and am now starting the xhtml/dreamweaver class. Why they made us learn flash first i'll never know. Even as a heavy graphics person that LOVES to see how excellent graphics look. Most people have no concept of how Flash should be used in a website. That is both annoying and often unprofessional looking. I hope you will not be one of those. I went through the class and still have no reason to use flash unless i wanted to make a funny short animation or game. I'm still uncertain about Dreamweaver as we haven't really got into the program yet. But I'm finding more and more things in code that I can use to replace flash.
In the beginning i used to create sites using html, it really sucks. Flash has some easiest tool for creating websites. we can do a one hour process in just a two lines of action script....
So guys... flash rocks....
Hey guys... this forum is a big Crack for my Website!!
Well, seriously, my website is based on Flash and pics! it gives out flash tutorials!
Flash is too easy to learn if you can devote time... for me, well, I started when I was 12! so by now, i know quite much...... But still, the basics can be learnt in about an hour! Trust me! My tutorials are long, so by reading them you may need maybe 3-5 days, but thats it! all you have to fo is read and understand, and on top of that you can ask doubts at help_center of my website!!
Any way coming back to the topic.. Even I am against the point that Flash is a 'necessity', but it sure makes the whole site look professional... Just think about it... if you see a site filled with links and loads of adds everywhere and no active x content.. then, welll.... you dont really find it so attractive, but when there is a flash intro, flashes on every pages, something or the other moving around in the screen ! , you think the site is good... ya sure dial up takes time, but flash files are usually a max of 50 kb if they have no sounds, this 50 kb also includes state of the art effects and visualisations!
Ya it true.. ! Flash is the future... Go to any website of sony, nokia, or any other big website, and just take a peek..... Flashes all around!!!! Big ones small ones, medium ones tall ones!
My opinion is that flash is not really needed in a very large quantity in websites, but some flash siles become a necissity at times.... So My answer is: Yes Flash is a Necessity...