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Question on COPPA





twotrophy
From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act

Quote:
This is an American law, however, the Federal Trade Commission has made it clear that the requirements of COPPA will apply to foreign-operated web sites if such sites "are directed to children in the U.S. or knowingly collect information from children in the U.S.


I heard of this US law that appears to apply to overseas websites from collecting children's (Under 13) personal information including e-mail addresses and even IP addresses. But the question is how can it possibly apply to people from other countries when directed to US children which the USA have no judristriction over? How can penalties (heavy fines) be given to people outside the US? This is the reason of "You must be 13+ to join this website" in sites such as Facebook and Google with the intention of protecting the privacy rights of young people. If this statement is accurate, the easiest way to comply with this is to make services unavailable to the USA by maybe using IP address blocking or to have a 13+ age limit which I would prefer the third or first option to prevent requiring a 13+ age limit. A possible way is to just apply the 13+ age limit to US users which may be a better option. Note: I have no intention of creating a site like Facebook. I am just asking a question
deanhills
Well I don't think the US has its own age limitations under control. Any teenager under 14 could pose as someone older. It would be up to the owner to ensure that those who are posting are protecting their personal information. Not sure that that always happens as of course at that age teenagers are not always made aware of the consequences of making their personal information public and they may see it even as dishonest to protect their personal information along over sharing lines.
twotrophy
deanhills wrote:
Well I don't think the US has its own age limitations under control. Any teenager under 14 could pose as someone older. It would be up to the owner to ensure that those who are posting are protecting their personal information. Not sure that that always happens as of course at that age teenagers are not always made aware of the consequences of making their personal information public and they may see it even as dishonest to protect their personal information along over sharing lines.


The best way to comply with this is to detect if a user's IP address is from the USA. If this is so, ask if the user is 13+ by asking them to key in their birthdate. The 13+ age restriction would not apply to people of other countries. Another more harsh way is to block every single IP from the USA.
deanhills
twotrophy wrote:
deanhills wrote:
Well I don't think the US has its own age limitations under control. Any teenager under 14 could pose as someone older. It would be up to the owner to ensure that those who are posting are protecting their personal information. Not sure that that always happens as of course at that age teenagers are not always made aware of the consequences of making their personal information public and they may see it even as dishonest to protect their personal information along over sharing lines.


The best way to comply with this is to detect if a user's IP address is from the USA. If this is so, ask if the user is 13+ by asking them to key in their birthdate. The 13+ age restriction would not apply to people of other countries. Another more harsh way is to block every single IP from the USA.
Not really. A person could easily put in a fictitious birth date. Only way to get them to comply is through a special ID. And hopefully we will never get to that stage as then the Internet will probably change into a bureaucratic type machine to police the IDs, then charge a subscription for getting an ID. Our freedom of navigating the Web would be severely restricted.

I'd say it would be pretty much up to the owner/s and staff to check that (1) people regardless of their age don't divulge their personal information in the Forum to the extent that it would reveal sensitive information about them (2) ensure that discussions would be appropriate for those under fourteen as well.
twotrophy
deanhills wrote:
Not really. A person could easily put in a fictitious birth date. Only way to get them to comply is through a special ID. And hopefully we will never get to that stage as then the Internet will probably change into a bureaucratic type machine to police the IDs, then charge a subscription for getting an ID. Our freedom of navigating the Web would be severely restricted.

I'd say it would be pretty much up to the owner/s and staff to check that (1) people regardless of their age don't divulge their personal information in the Forum to the extent that it would reveal sensitive information about them (2) ensure that discussions would be appropriate for those under fourteen as well.


Sorry, the age that I am referring to is 12 and under not 14. Such a law affects the economy too much. It should be relaxed but not abolished. Blocking every single IP from the USA from registering would be against Internet freedom so the best way is to require a 13 and above to use only in the USA which can be easily enforced using IP addresses and birth dates. I hate it when website rules say things like "You must be at least 13 to use this service" so I would still consider IP address blocking if I run an online service.
deanhills
twotrophy wrote:
deanhills wrote:
Not really. A person could easily put in a fictitious birth date. Only way to get them to comply is through a special ID. And hopefully we will never get to that stage as then the Internet will probably change into a bureaucratic type machine to police the IDs, then charge a subscription for getting an ID. Our freedom of navigating the Web would be severely restricted.

I'd say it would be pretty much up to the owner/s and staff to check that (1) people regardless of their age don't divulge their personal information in the Forum to the extent that it would reveal sensitive information about them (2) ensure that discussions would be appropriate for those under fourteen as well.


Sorry, the age that I am referring to is 12 and under not 14. Such a law affects the economy too much. It should be relaxed but not abolished. Blocking every single IP from the USA from registering would be against Internet freedom so the best way is to require a 13 and above to use only in the USA which can be easily enforced using IP addresses and birth dates. I hate it when website rules say things like "You must be at least 13 to use this service" so I would still consider IP address blocking if I run an online service.
I'm against IP blocking as particularly where I am in the UAE (and I'm sure in many other countries), we are allocated dynamic IPs, which means that at any time we may be sharing our IP with a large number of other people, quite a number of whom are spammers. So if you block one IP, you may be creating a problem for many other innocent people. I'd only block by country if for example it is a Forum that is regional and specific to a group of people only that resides in that country. Better yet if I were the owner of the Forum, I would rely on the Know Your Member principle. I'd rather do it that way than have a bunch of international rules and regulations.
twotrophy
deanhills wrote:
Not really. I'm against IP blocking as particularly where I am in the UAE (and I'm sure in many other countries), we are allocated dynamic IPs, which means that at any time we may be sharing our IP with a large number of other people, quite a number of whom are spammers. So if you block one IP, you may be creating a problem for many other innocent people. I'd only block by country if for example it is a Forum that is regional and specific to a group of people only that resides in that country. Better yet if I were the owner of the Forum, I would rely on the Know Your Member principle. I'd rather do it that way than have a bunch of international rules and regulations.


The best way is to require a 13 and over age limit only to the USA by checking which ISP are users using when collecting personal information which includes things that are difficult to identify you such as e-mail addresses even if the address doesn't contain names. I am against age restrictions which are mainly because of this US law which applies to foreign based websites when directed to the US children. Let's close this discussion
Peterssidan
The Wikipedia quote says "directed to children in the U.S" so if we make a website not aimed at US specifically then I don't think we need to care. If we are not living in the US I think there is little chance that they can do anything about it anyway. There are so many countries connected to the internet and handling each and every one of them individually to comply to local laws would be ridiculous.
twotrophy
Peterssidan wrote:
The Wikipedia quote says "directed to children in the U.S" so if we make a website not aimed at US specifically then I don't think we need to care. If we are not living in the US I think there is little chance that they can do anything about it anyway. There are so many countries connected to the internet and handling each and every one of them individually to comply to local laws would be ridiculous.


Quote:
Foreign-based Web sites and online services must comply with COPPA if they are directed to children in the United States, or if they knowingly collect personal information from children in the U.S. The law’s definition of “operator” includes foreign-based Web sites and online services that are involved in commerce in the United States or its territories. As a related matter, U.S.-based sites and services that collect information from foreign children also are subject to COPPA.


From:business.ftc.gov/documents/Complying-with-COPPA-Frequently-Asked-Questions

Here is the paragraph from the FTC's website of the USA. I wonder how can the USA enforce the law overseas. When I was younger, I find that there are too many websites that says "You must be at least be 13 years old to use this service" because websites are not allowed to collect information from people of this age which includes e-mail addresses without reasonable ways of verifying parents' consent which includes credit card numbers and even signatures which are impractical. and now they are expanding it to any way that people under 13 can be contacted. Parents are unlikely to mind from my experience and people can easily and commonly fake their age such as in Facebook. Mark Zuckerburg is against it as well.

I think that such restrictions affect the economy too much. Many sites are willing to go a long way to protect the young. I think that such restrictions should be relaxed. If I create a future online service, I am considering to make my service unavailable to the USA or to only apply a 13+ age limit to the USA. I will still go a long way to protect the identity of the young. Can we end this discussion please as I don't want to be popularly associated with this thread as I am a secretive person? Thank you Deanhills and Peterssidan for your generous time.
RosenCruz
Ahh these US acts trying to control Internet. They all get funnier by time Laughing


But COPPA is an old one I believe and in use since early 2000's.
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