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Is there life beyond earth?





beyondntech
Please let me know what you think about life beyond earth?

Do you believe that there are other beings in the universe rather than the human race?

Please state out of honesty and the reasons why you think that there might be others far away from us.

Hoping that we could share with one another issues of life beyond earth and hoping that all that is said would be not propaganda and it comes from one owns heart and mind.

Cheers to all

God Bless n God Speed.
Bikerman
Blood comes from hearts.
Yes I think there are aliens out there.
No, I don't think that will be confirmed in my (or your) lifetime, if at all.
The reason is simply a best guess based on what i know about life here, conditions in the universe and, most important, the size of the universe.
Ankhanu
With the exception of his first line, I agree with Bikerman's assessment. Blood doesn't come from hearts, rather, it is circulated by them Wink Blood (cells) is primarily formed in bone marrow, though there are some other organs and systems that participate.
Bikerman
Hmmm...should I quibble and say that it is relative. To a man holding an artery, blood comes from the heart, and any doubt can be quickly settled by tracing the path taken - although it originates, as you say, elsewhere.
In the same way when asked I usually say that I come from Leigh in Lancashire, since I was certainly born in that town, but my origin is much more debatable and to some extent subjective - and although I could give you a biological location, a geographical one is probably not known to me....

Nah, I'll not quibble. Quite correct - very sloppy of me Smile
GuidanceReader
Given the number of solar systems/stars etc. I think the statistic probability almost makes it certain that there is other life out there. Whether we'll ever get in contact with them or vice-versa is a completely different question.
spinout
The speed of blood comes from the heart. Errrr... Oops that is also a mistake...

anyhow, aliens... Good or bad, is they out there or already here?
We have got many many answers to our call! Still no sight of any aliens in person, why?
And if they can communicate with us, why don't some eat us?

I think if I was an alien, hm let say the common ones in movies; ET... hm, why would my main reason NOT to land be? If the earth was a heaven/good resort I would definitely land. And if they habitants were just making wars all the time/pollute/do thing I disagree with I would NOT land. So this planet must be a house of shit to an alien IF they are close!

Why don't they eat us? Either they have connection to us or some other aliens are guarding us. So either are we offspring/pets(zoo beeings) to aliens or there is a disagreement between space beeings where some guards us, or all space beeings are vegans or think we taste shit...

Travel might be an interestion question, Either they can use workholes of some kind OR they can travel outside of the plane we dwell in - in a vessel or in person.

Just say that aliens NOT are here, then the probability that they wants to eat us is very high!
Ankhanu
I'm just being a smartass, as usual Razz
nixink
Life beyond the universe...
Whether intelligent/reasoning or not, life of some kind does exist.

Depictions of other worldly life forms have been found in the works of noted (and not so noted - tribes, cultures, civilizations) artists from moons ago...

The mere idea that we are alone in this vast expanse is, quite simply put, arrogant of us as a species...
And although, I myself have a 3rd leg and therefore consider myself quite a gifted alien, the intrigue of such a possibility fuels the search to explore, learn more instead of just accepting what we experience around us with our 5 senses.

Belief, hope, faith - in whatever way, it drives us - specifically for me, I'm having my head frozen and in a 1000 years (hopefully sooner) I'd like to be beamed up to Enterprise G5.1 where I'll enjoy a long and happy existence amongst fellow three leggies until 1 day we make a hole in the black sheet that is space and fall into a bowl of tastyweet belonging to yet another kind of being...

However... life beyond earth doesn't necessarily mean life as we know it - consider the various planes of existence and the number of possibilities infinitely compounds. 3D thinking is so last season... Smile
metalfreek
I think there is life beyond Earth in the Universe. My guess it that there are billions of planets with their own kind of life. But finding an intelligent life will be a challenge. There might be billions of microbial life elsewhere but intelligent life is a rare one.

Someone has even formulated an equation for it called Drake Equation. Here is a link to wikipedia entry for Drake equation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
Simonjw
Well, this is my single most favourite things to talk and debate about with my buddies at work and my mates in the forces. It's always about the wars and battles we fight with each other, what about something out there kind of thoughts come into play.

I personally just believe there is more life out there without even turning to science. Just look at the vast majority of different lifeforms which we have on Earth alone. There are even still things we haven't discovered at the depths of the oceans and even in other locations around the world. Life comes and goes and creatures become extinct and others evolve or are just created. So, just off that I believe there are other forms of life out there.

Look how big the Universe is and the Hubble Telescope has been zooming into the Universe for many years and it actually has come across countless Solar Systems like the Milky Way which seem to look like they can hold life. So that alone is more reasoning to believe or think it.

Some of you on here said in our lifetime we may not see it. You possibly could be wrong with the rate technology is going it could be here sooner than we think, unless we kill ourselves with something we come up with. 10 years worth of development had turned into 5 and now its as little as 2 years to get the same sort of results. So we never know.

About aliens already being on Earth, thinking about all the conspiracies, we will never know. But I always wonder where people come up with ideas for movies and video games with regards to aliens and things like that. I also wonder at how the Pyramids and Incas built their monuments and structures where cranes and helicopters struggle to move those size blocks of the pyramids. Just something else to make you ponder on this.

Will love to see this further in a debate. Also how many of you would love to meet an alien life form?
Bikerman
nixink wrote:
Life beyond the universe...
Whether intelligent/reasoning or not, life of some kind does exist.
On earth, yes. The rest is speculation.
Quote:
Depictions of other worldly life forms have been found in the works of noted (and not so noted - tribes, cultures, civilizations) artists from moons ago...
Don't believe everything you read - especially if written by charlatans like Erich Von Daniken and his ilk. I don't know of any such artistic depictions - though there are plenty of Gods, ritualised images and other stylised art/depiction - which you can only interpret properly by understanding something of the culture from whence they came - something that people making this sort of claim never quite grasp.
Quote:
The mere idea that we are alone in this vast expanse is, quite simply put, arrogant of us as a species...
No I don't agree. The RELIGIOUS idea that the whole thing was created for us - that certainly IS arrogrant. The idea that there is no life out there is not arrogant, you could call it pessimistic or even nihilistic, but plenty of humble rational people think it may be the case. In fact there is an increasing school of thought, with scientific grounding, that says planets like ours may be a good deal rarer than thought until recently...and don't forget that any prediction based on a sample size of one is very speculative indeed.
I do agree that this would be a pretty extreme view and that we have good reason to expect life 'out there'.
Pippo90
I think there is no life beyond Earth. I respect those who believe otherwise, but to me it seems that believing in aliens has somewhat replaced religion in certain aspects.
Bikerman
So, do you think there is something unique about Earth? All the evidence seems to point to there being many Earth-like planets - possibly millions even within just this one Galaxy. Why, then, would life not arise on at least some of these planets?
Ankhanu
Pippo90 wrote:
I think there is no life beyond Earth. I respect those who believe otherwise, but to me it seems that believing in aliens has somewhat replaced religion in certain aspects.

I disagree. There are two basic categories of belief at play here; life originating/being being elsewhere possible, and belief that that life has been here, or even specific types of them have been or are here. Only the latter could possibly be viewed in a similar light to religion, the former is somewhat more of a rational/logical exploration.

If you believe that only Earth has ever had, or currently has life, like Bikerman said, you're gonna need to explain what makes this planet so special as to be the only one; why the statistics don't favour the possibility of alien life.
spinout
I am certain that mankind is NOT the true blood of this planet. Our genes was put here, when we did our job this planet became just a ZOO!

So there are theories about the real "humanoids" of this planet - all from yetis to reptilians, well what is you favorite? This is a hard question, the reptilians was here first but they are ot humaniods... Well the reptilians are the ones in my mind who are the real "people" off this planet.

Well the next trick is to spot a yeti or a reptilian, neither likes to live in the open space. Yetis rush in the woods and the reptilians are in the ground... Atleast there are bones after a yeti breed from russia documented...
Bikerman
Quote:
I am certain that mankind is NOT the true blood of this planet.

Bad start to any posting on any science forum...
Quote:
At least there are bones after a yeti breed from russia documented...

Links? Citations? Papers?

This sounds like the sort of pseudo-scientific twaddle one now sees all too often on media outlets such as 'Discovery'. A mixture of conspiracy theory, pseudo-scientific 'theory' and self-promotion, first pushed into the mass arena by charlatans such as Erich Von Daniken and since grabbed by numerous self-promoting no-marks. Finally expanded into a 'theory', of such idiocy that it rivals 'flat earth' in that regard, by poor mad David Icke.
spinout
A bad posting would be the opposite! Remember this is a forum.

hm, Lloyd Pye's famous speech from 99 I think have the complete story about the Russin skeleton with pictures. Intreresting.

I have never understand David Icke's work.
Bikerman
This is a SCIENCE forum. A bad posting is one which contains contentious unsupported assertion. That is what you have posted. Still no links or citations to check....remains bad.
spinout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe6DN1OoxjE

The famous lecture from 1999, with the russian halfbreed man/snowman skull...

fun as heck too!

HAHA - there is a new song called only the dead fisk follow the stream... Listen to it on spotify. There is a truth (trout? Smile ) about it regarding a forum - it dies without a discussion! You narrow science too hard!
Ankhanu
spinout wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe6DN1OoxjE

The famous lecture from 1999, with the russian halfbreed man/snowman skull...

fun as heck too!

HAHA - there is a new song called only the dead fisk follow the stream... Listen to it on spotify. There is a truth (trout? Smile ) about it regarding a forum - it dies without a discussion! You narrow science too hard!


Any independent verification of anything Pye is saying? Have anything with scientific merit to share?

Narrow science is... science. If it doesn't fit the definition of science, then science it is not. Science is rigorous and it needs to be so to be reliable and informative.
spinout
Well, I asked a person nearby (15 years of DNA/RNA study in universities in europe, holds a degree in it) if the idea of genetic modification is working as show in the film, and the answer is yes... So, if that goes; it is just science against science! And that is what a science forum is all about; science against science!

It fits in science! much do! But then you have the war is science - you bet on the racehorse (ideas) who will win and have the standoff's... Have you ever seen the movie on youtube where S Hawkins says he lost about the higgs???

Next problem; history... It is not that simple to determine what happened 200000 years ago!!!

Ok, so this thread is about life beyond the earth. The Sumer tablets talks only about ET's - is there a problem with that in a science section??? No, science is also working indiana jones style! Don't narrow it down to a math algorith if you wan't it interesting!
Math says 100% that there are life beyond this planet - ok move this to the general chat please!
Ankhanu
spinout wrote:
Well, I asked a person nearby (15 years of DNA/RNA study in universities in europe, holds a degree in it) if the idea of genetic modification is working as show in the film, and the answer is yes... So, if that goes; it is just science against science! And that is what a science forum is all about; science against science!

That's a fine anecdote.

spinout wrote:
It fits in science! much do! But then you have the war is science - you bet on the racehorse (ideas) who will win and have the standoff's... Have you ever seen the movie on youtube where S Hawkins says he lost about the higgs???

Possibility is not the same as fact. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that a small population of Paederus littorarius living in my basement preying upon some of the silverfish or other inverts down there... but, there isn't Wink
The thing about a "war in science" is that they are ultimately dictated by actual fact and data. Even if you have a favourite hypothesis/theory, if it's not supported, you MUST abandon it and accept what the data shows (if you have any integrity, that is... and ultimately, all a scientist has is their integrity).

spinout wrote:
Next problem; history... It is not that simple to determine what happened 200000 years ago!!!

Ok, so this thread is about life beyond the earth. The Sumer tablets talks only about ET's - is there a problem with that in a science section??? No, science is also working indiana jones style! Don't narrow it down to a math algorith if you wan't it interesting!

I guess that depends on how you define "interesting," eh?
Yes, science deals with historical analysis, working "Indiana Jones style"... to a point. Tablets are great and all, but they are NOT evidence any more than a modern magazine is evidence. They are anecdote, and anything they tell us must be backed with physical evidence.
No, it is not simple to determine what happened in the distant past, but there are entire fields of study dedicated to it, and they require specialized knowledge and techniques to analyze and cross-verify information.

The study of the question is not simply a maths question, it's a rich cross-disciplinary question with active research. If you're not into maths, there is much within the realm of actual data to explore to keep things "interesting" without resorting to fanciful notions that aren't properly supported by data. Fanciful notions are fun, and CAN lead to discovery, but, they must be recognized as just ideas until they are supported by fact... and better supported by those facts than competing hypotheses or theories.

spinout wrote:
Math says 100% that there are life beyond this planet - ok move this to the general chat please!

No, statistics suggest that it is highly likely... that's not the same as 100% certain.
spinout
spinout wrote:
Math says 100% that there are life beyond this planet - ok move this to the general chat please!
No, statistics suggest that it is highly likely... that's not the same as 100% certain.

That's a fine anecdote.


What is interesting? The interesting here in the INDY genre is that all fact indicates on ET's!!! So the fanciful notifications are the garbage ideas not including ET's the human history.

All facts (bones and DNA aso) are dismissed in human history as commonly presented! Just anecdotes are present! Just anecdotes!
The science of anecdotes... Laughing Well all researchers like Pye aso that says common garbage are garbage and comes with facts well... have just a moutain of garbage in front to climb. And to them this ain't no fun I suppose. Laughing

Human history is wrong as presented in museums. But does it matter?
Ankhanu
If it's wrong, yes, it certainly matters... however, I have not seen good information suggesting that the current theories/phylogenies are actually wrong (other than perhaps some small details that get shifted around as elucidating data is revealed).
spinout
Why should it matter?

I have not seen any information that the current theories are correct, only info that it is wrong.

Still, beyond Zecharia Sitchin and others, it does not matter. Why should it matter? If we wind up collapsing again as a civilization, does it matter? OK, now I am getting beyond "science"...
Nyasro
May be there is but i don't think so. If there were life beyond earth, we would have birth there...lol
DubiousDoctor
Bikerman,

I'm reminded of the scholar who grew up on a farm, the first to recognize blood could not be created in tissue as it was just too bloody voluminous when he slaughtered animals and developed the basis of the circulatory system. A good story regardless of whether or not it is true.

-----

As for the basis of this thread, with an infinite flat universe I acknowledge that not everything must happen, but we'd have to be pretty conceited to be alone. I agree though that the uncertainty associated with the chance of intelligent life developing within communication distance of other intelligent life is quite high (what with extrapolating from one data point and all).
Bikerman
Well, actually, with an infinite flat universe, everything MUST happen an infinite number of times methinks.....Infinity is a bugger like that - once you let it in, all sorts of weird stuff happens. In fact, we can calculate the distance to the nearest universe almost identical to our own.
Assume for argument that our universe contains in the order of 10^118 particles of matter - that will be accurate to a couple of orders of magnitude which will serve.
Now, diameter of Universe is 10^26 metres. So we can do a sum:
number of possible ways to arrange 10^118 particles is 2^(10^118). After that it follows that we get repeats - duplicates. So to find a duplicate universe we need to multiply that by the diameter:
2^(10^118)*10^26 metres. That is so small compared to the permutations that we can safely ignore it. So, if we travel 2^(10^118) metres in a flat universe we should run into a duplicate Smile
DubiousDoctor
My mathematics aren't good enough for me to have faith in describing it, but considering the cardinality of a set must point towards different degrees of infinity. The cardinality of x/2 for an infinite value of x may be equal to that of x/1, but x^2/1 is going to equal that in just one term.

Over an infinite amount of time there may well be a situation where Oprah plays Boba Fett in that world's version of Star Wars with a certain hair colour, there can't be Oprah with infinitesimally different hair colours playing all of the resulting different Boba Fetts though.
Bikerman
Oh yes, you are now into Cantor-space.
The Cardinality of infinite sets is what Cantor worked on. He first showed that the infinite set of real numbers must be bigger than the infinite set of integers...

So the natural numbers have cardinality Aleph0 which looks like and this is the first infinite cardinality.
Aleph 0 sets h have to be countable - which means their elements must be capable of being mapped onto the set of natural numbers (called bijection). So the set of integers is aleph 0, as is the set of primes - both infinite countable groups.

Then we get cardinality of the set of all countable ordinal numbers - - Aleph - 1 cardinality - these are uncountable infinite sets. This set is called ω1, and since ω1 is itself an ordinal number larger than all countable ones, this means it is an uncountable infinite set.

From here on it gets a bit tricky Smile
spinout
hm...
Quote - "number of possible ways to arrange 10^118 particles is 2^(10^118). After that it follows that we get repeats - duplicates."
Oh I really really hope that to be...!!!! Ok, I can go with the math even if I think the assumtions is incorrect, and the flat universe is off the chart of course. I think I would go with a variant of the "open".

Cardinality Aleph0, I think Cantor was off by a universe Laughing natural numbers (!) in a cardinality??? think about it for a while! Ok, it is defined functionally - works in a computer and nowhere else.
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