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Ammo Shortage





coolclay
I know we've got a few fellow shooters here on Frihost, anyone have any luck finding any ammo lately?
I am not super concerned about centerfire rifle or even centerfire pistol rounds because I reload, and have plenty of supplies to hold me over awhile anyway.

My biggest issue with the current ammo shortage here in the US, is for rimfire .22 LR. These can not be reloaded and must be purchased. Typically this was my go to plinking, practicing, fun round because it used to be so cheap. 10 years ago you could get a box of 500 for like $12. For the past year or so it's been around 4 cents a round, but since 2013 you can't even find it anywhere for any price!!

I can imagine the shortage is hitting professional competition shooters even more (since they shoot thousands of rounds/day). I guess it just means I won't be able to go shooting until supply increases and meets demand. There are several news articles online saying some police departments can't even find ammo and are backordered for 8 months at the soonest! That's scary when our police can't even buy ammo.

I will certainly start stocking up on ammo and reloading supplies after the shortage is over that's for sure!
taytay
It depends on what it's for. 9mm ammo is the hardest to come by around here. It's not that there's a shortage, it's the a big gun scare happens every time the government talks about taking away the guns that freaks people out into going to buy as much as they possibly can. 9mm is the more popular handgun here since ammo is cheap. Only problem now, is it's hard to come by...
coolclay
You guys are lucky if 9mm is the only thing hard to get. Our stores around here in Louisiana barely have anything, except some shotgun and a few rare rifle cartridges.

Like I said it's the lack of .22 LR that pains me. Even Cabela's and other big stores are out!
standready
You can blame Obama for the price increase as well as now the shortage. He does not want honest citizens to be able to defend themselves. My baby, "harriet' does not care because it takes reloads only.
Ankhanu
I haven't noticed any shortages here in Canada, but I also haven't really been looking. As far as I've seen, though, when I've been in the sporting/hunting/fishing areas of the store that sell it, the selection is about as good as it usually is.
standready wrote:
You can blame Obama for the price increase as well as now the shortage. He does not want honest citizens to be able to defend themselves.


*eye rolls*
ocalhoun
My curiosity is about 2/3 of the way to being intense enough to find a real answer for the shortage.

But since I can't currently afford to buy any more ammo, even at pre-gun-scare prices, it's a rather academic question for me.
coolclay
Quote:
You can blame Obama for the price increase as well as now the shortage. He does not want honest citizens to be able to defend themselves. My baby, "harriet' does not care because it takes reloads only.


Yea, well unless you manufacture your own primers, nitrocellulose, and bullets, she'll only shoot for so long!

While I don't think it is directly Obama's fault, I do think it is indirectly his fault, along with the other anti-2nd amendment folks. Notice I said anti-2nd amendment, not pro-gun control. Because I am actually pro-gun control, but being pro-gun control is very different than being anti-2nd amendment.

Those individuals who strive to take away 2nd amendment rights are partially responsible for the current ammunition shortage. No one in their right minds can think that limiting sales of .22 LR would do anything to stop violence or crime, but then no one in their right minds thinks a thumbhole stock actually will make a difference in violence or crime and yet here we are.

In England being in possession of large quantities of even small caliber rimfire (.22 LR) ammunition will put you in jail. Ask Sergeant Major Morgan Cook , a professional shooting champion who got jail time and kicked out of the army for it. This is what Americans have nightmares about.

In my eyes two groups are to blame for the shortage, those inciting the hysteria (mainly politicians and a few NGO's), and those actively being hysterical (gun nuts). Until people take a deep breath, and relax, prices will continue to soar and supplies will continue to be zero. I just hope it happens soon, my back stock can only last so long!
RosenCruz
You have trouble finding ammo & weapons ?

Call National Rifle Association today ! We will investigate the issue for our fellow honest citizens to defend themselves and provide you with solutions !

1- 800 - 555 5123123
coolclay
Are you serious? I am sure the NRA and every member in the country is very aware of the problem, because they are by in large causing it!

Not to mention even the police community is struggling to find ammunition. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/23/local-law-enforcement-face-ammo-shortage-as-dhs-stocks-up/
RosenCruz
coolclay wrote:
Are you serious? I am sure the NRA and every member in the country is very aware of the problem, because they are by in large causing it!

Not to mention even the police community is struggling to find ammunition. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/23/local-law-enforcement-face-ammo-shortage-as-dhs-stocks-up/


Relax, that was "sarcasm" Wink
coolclay
Ok, I was hoping, but ya never know these days...
deanhills
coolclay wrote:
Not to mention even the police community is struggling to find ammunition. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/23/local-law-enforcement-face-ammo-shortage-as-dhs-stocks-up/
You think this is Obama's alternative strategy for gun control? Probably too genius for him though, or is it? Guess very shortly now people are going to manufacture their own ammunition. I sincerely hope they will.
nickfyoung
No problem here in Australia. We don't have ammo or guns. They were all banned years ago after our first shooting rampage. That guy is still in jail and now you can't own a gun except for special circumstances with a special permit.
We get hold ups with knives etc and the store owner chases them off with a baseball bat. Much more fun really because with a gun it is usually all over very quickly.
There are still criminal elements with weapons on the streets. The government is in the process of making bike gangs illegal because they often have shoot outs between them selves. As you can imagine they are not happy about that and have tried everything including high court challenges. The police reckon they are the source of much drug running and other criminal activity and so need to be shut down. They give them such a hassle. Every time there is a club rally or outing the police are there in numbers and pull them all over and search them. Must be frustrating for them.
watersoul
nickfyoung wrote:
We get hold ups with knives etc and the store owner chases them off with a baseball bat. Much more fun really because with a gun it is usually all over very quickly.

Fun?!
Never been slashed by a knife then Nick?
I have. You wouldn't call it fun if you had, or even witnessed such things.

In an attempt to avoid any extra work for the mods here I shall refrain from delivering my emotionally charged thoughts in this reply, but I will suggest that you reconsider your comments and take a moment to stop and actually think about what you just posted.
People die at the point of a knife every day in the world. It is not 'fun'.
nickfyoung
watersoul wrote:
nickfyoung wrote:
We get hold ups with knives etc and the store owner chases them off with a baseball bat. Much more fun really because with a gun it is usually all over very quickly.

Fun?!
Never been slashed by a knife then Nick?
I have. You wouldn't call it fun if you had, or even witnessed such things.

In an attempt to avoid any extra work for the mods here I shall refrain from delivering my emotionally charged thoughts in this reply, but I will suggest that you reconsider your comments and take a moment to stop and actually think about what you just posted.
People die at the point of a knife every day in the world. It is not 'fun'.



Tongue in cheek, can't you pick that up???????
watersoul
nickfyoung wrote:
watersoul wrote:
nickfyoung wrote:
We get hold ups with knives etc and the store owner chases them off with a baseball bat. Much more fun really because with a gun it is usually all over very quickly.

Fun?!
Never been slashed by a knife then Nick?
I have. You wouldn't call it fun if you had, or even witnessed such things.

In an attempt to avoid any extra work for the mods here I shall refrain from delivering my emotionally charged thoughts in this reply, but I will suggest that you reconsider your comments and take a moment to stop and actually think about what you just posted.
People die at the point of a knife every day in the world. It is not 'fun'.



Tongue in cheek, can't you pick that up???????

No, you didn't make it obvious and either way it was a tragic attempt at humour if that was your intention.
You proclaim yourself as a 'man of god' and come out with stupid comments relating to knife violence as 'much more fun'.
It is never a joking matter, and as long as people such as yourself continue to present it as so then our society will continue to face many challenges.
nickfyoung
The whole subject is a farce. The gun manufacturers control the gun laws in the States, they keep having kids killed in schools and no one can do anything about it.
Australia has gone a long way to fix the problem. Many of our hold ups are done now with knives , steel bars, baseball bats, but hardly ever guns. Many of our shop keepers now are migrants of all different persuasions and many chase off the hold up kid with a baseball bat of their own. This is all caught on security camera and makes for interesting viewing on the news.
The whole post is a send up of the idiotic system in the States, all very different here.
deanhills
nickfyoung wrote:

The whole post is a send up of the idiotic system in the States, all very different here.
Well if I would have a choice between freedom to own a gun and fiddling with the right to own a gun or a knife or whatever, I'd go for "idiotic system" any day. I also don't see the system as particularly sane in Australia either. I find it quite idiotic that there is legislation banning guns in Australia but at the same time knives are considered OK. The message this legislation sends me is that violence is OK except not with a gun.
BigGeek
WOW, I'm not really sure how this thread went from a discussion of Ammo shortages to a knock on the US Gun Laws.

Of course people that have had their freedoms stripped away for their own protection are going to badmouth those that fight for theirs and still have them. Pretty typical, people that don't own cars and believe in saving the environment label those that own cars as bad polluting citizens. Those that can't own firearms legally label those that can as ignorant, stupid, or even violent.

Thing about the US that most people don't understand is that the Federal Government is not the end all of laws. They do trump state law, but the whole idea of the US is that the states be allowed to govern themselves. Unlike Australia, UK, or many other countries. The idea of 1) not trusting your government, 2) wanting to govern your own citizens, and 3) not sharing the same laws and policies as the federal government is foreign to most citizens of other countries. Each of the states can and some are doing so, adopt their own gun laws. Or like some of the states, ignore them and continue business as usual.

My own problem with this is that it is reactionary legislation. Which is never good, and typically makes the problem worse, or does nothing to really address the issue.

Making guns illegal might stop some of the school and mass shootings, but in the long run IMO in a country with over 300 million firearms, many of them unregistered, it sounds like a recipe for disarming your citizens and leaving them open to armed assault.

Making guns difficult to get, and demanding strict background checks, and even mental checks would go a long way toward preventing horrific scenes like Sandy Hook, and would make sense.

But then again reactionary legislation is typically that - a reaction, not thought out, and over board.

Yes here in Colorado, ammo is very difficult to find and typically very expensive. I no longer go target shooting for fun anymore it is too expensive. I stocked up on most of the ammo I need years ago when this all started cleaned up all the firearms where they sit unused in a safe. I still have my concealed carry weapon available, but I never take it out and practice anymore because ammo is so hard to find and expensive.

My wife was at home when some strange Hispanic man started banging on the door and screaming, she was terrified and grabbed the phone and dialed 911. 10 minutes later the guy was still on the front porch screaming (although he stopped banging on the door). Finally after 15 minutes of this, she grabbed my .45, opened the door and pointed it at the guy and told him to leave, and he did. 45 minutes later 1 hour after the call the police arrived and knocked on the door. The screaming man had a flat tire and did not speak English and was still up on the road near the house screaming hysterically about not wanting to get deported. No harm no foul I guess.

But a great story to illustrate.....call the cops, you don't need any weapons, they will protect you ... right? Yeah maybe an hour later!!!!! Depending on the cops and not your own devices to protect yourself is not the wisest decision that people can make Rolling Eyes
watersoul
BigGeek wrote:
call the cops, you don't need any weapons, they will protect you ... right? Yeah maybe an hour later!!!!! Depending on the cops and not your own devices to protect yourself is not the wisest decision that people can make Rolling Eyes

I agree with that.
Here in the UK we have restrictive gun laws but we are able to own shotguns (single barrel, double barrel, pump action or semi-automatic, but not able to hold more than 3 cartridges at once), and manually loaded rifles. You have to be a member of a gun club (quite easy) and hold a license which is only granted to people of good standing without convictions.
Personally I could obtain these myself but choose not to as I'm not that interested. Gun crime is mainly between criminals and pretty rare as a proprtion of total crime in the UK.

Generally I support gun freedom for citizens who have been checked out as not being dangerous or whatever, but if our populace had a major increase in gun ownership, especially handguns (which are banned), then for sure our police would start to routinely carry guns themselves. Right now there is always an armed response unit in any area with guns in the police car, but the average cop on the street just has a baton or a tazer. I would find our streets a lot scarier if every cop carried a firearm.

US/UK though, is like apples and oranges. There are many millions of guns in the US which will not disappear with any ban. Only the people who conform will hand them in so such a change would just benefit the criminals.

It is rare for a non-criminal to be shot in the UK, such things mainly happen to fellow criminals, drug dealers etc. For that reason, the thought of being shot is probably one of the furthest things from my mind.
Being stabbed is a far greater and real threat in my country, and if I woke up in the night hearing an intruder downstairs then my Barnett Crossbow would be loaded and in my hands before I investigated anything. Even if there are a couple of scumbag thieves, it would be highly unlikely that either of them have a gun, and it is a brave or foolish guy who takes the first and perhaps only shot I could get off. I would not want to release a bolt to be honest though, just encourage the guys to leave quickly.
Ankhanu
The Canadian situation is much like that in the UK. Guns aren't banned, but they're all restricted, requiring specific permits and conditions to own/operate, and some are even further restricted (e.g. handguns, automatics, etc). We have little gun crime, and it generally works pretty well.

The States could have a similar system, and it would work just fine. Yes, there certainly will be a lag between gun registration/licensing and normal citizens turning in restricted weapons, and numbers of guns in criminal possession also dropping... but it would even out in time.
Really, the main issue is common-citizen paranoia. As mentioned, most gun crime is committed amongst the criminal element, not from criminals against common citizens... though this may be eclipsed (or closely followed) by accidental shootings committed by common-citizens against their friends and family members (the exact numbers depend on the context of the study and the exact data sources referenced).

Gun-freedom advocates love to highlight personal safety and responsible gun ownership... but, really, there are far too many irresponsible gun owners. THAT's the real problem with lax gun law. Yes, a responsible gun owner is generally quite safe... but many gun owners in the States aren't terribly responsible.
nickfyoung
In regard to the police system. Here in Australia the police do carry side arms and their response is usually pretty quick. We have had problems with young kids generally making a nuisance of them selves in the neighborhood and the police have been called a couple of times. They have been here withing 5/10 mins and that is not to serious life threatening crime. Maybe that is the difference. We don't need to protect ourselves so much because we have an efficient and fast response police force. On the subject of invasion by a foreign power. We have a huge number of asylum seekers arriving by boat on a weekly basis. Yesterday, the locals were surprised to see a boat load arrive in to a busy port undetected. They are wondering now about the ease by which some one could invade Australia.
watersoul
nickfyoung wrote:
We don't need to protect ourselves so much because we have an efficient and fast response police force.
My neighbour had a violent former rapist stalker incident recently and I was the first responder because the cops will still take minutes to arrive, as would yours. If you trust the police response then you have obviously never been in a situation of imminent distress which needed action immediately. Sheep bleating on the hillside?
Ankhanu
Aye, gun proponents DO have a point that police take time to respond, and, in many instances, they'll take longer to get there than is required. This doesn't suggest that an armed citizen will actually be in a better position than an unarmed one, however Wink
watersoul
Ankhanu wrote:
Aye, gun proponents DO have a point that police take time to respond, and, in many instances, they'll take longer to get there than is required. This doesn't suggest that an armed citizen will actually be in a better position than an unarmed one, however Wink

I would prefer to be in a position where my defence capability is one which is more quickly reactive to a dangerous situation than one which relies solely on the assistance of another person/s who may be 5 minutes away Wink
coolclay
I am always amazed at the lack of response time of law enforcement. Even in large cities where their are more on duty officers it's still horrible. Last week my girlfriends $3,000 scooter was hijacked, she called them within an hour of the theft, and they took 30 minutes to respond. I told her to remember that when she thinks she can just call for help if she get's mugged, raped, etc. Luckily the scooter was found later in the day by a neighborhood watch officer, someone stole the little $5 mirrors off it, the license plate, and took it for a 60 mile joyride.

I often feel the neighborhood watch officers do a better job than the New Orlean city cops.

My father is a cop so I have the inside scoop on a lot of things. The biggest piece of the delay is just the communication time going from the person to 911 to the dispatcher to the officer, it's a solid 5 minutes right there.

Either way this is getting off topic.

I unfortunately assumed it would turn into another gun debate.

Big Geek, you made a great point that many folks (US, and non-US) don't understand. That of state vs. federal law. Don't like the laws in one state, then move to another. It's much easier than moving from country to country, but essentially allows you to live with a government your agree more with.
deanhills
coolclay wrote:


Big Geek, you made a great point that many folks (US, and non-US) don't understand. That of state vs. federal law. Don't like the laws in one state, then move to another. It's much easier than moving from country to country, but essentially allows you to live with a government your agree more with.
That was a great post of Big Geek's. Ocalhoun educated us as well during his years of posting about how the gun laws differ from one State to another, but this was a great summary for me. I just hope it will stay this way as it looks as though the Federal Government is taking over everything. If it can do it with medical insurance, something States should decide for them selves, in the way the State of Massachusetts had already worked out long before the law was passed, anything is possible. Bottom line, I don't trust the Federal Government, and I don't trust the political system where people have become much less reactive to the Federal Government basically dictating to the States on matters they should be deciding for themselves.
RosenCruz
I see videos on youtube and around, people testing and using assault rifles and stuff. Can one really have a M1 Garand, or Colt Bushmaster in USA?


I thought having a gun and getting ammo was cheap in USA. I guess I am wrong Shocked
ocalhoun
RosenCruz wrote:
I see videos on youtube and around, people testing and using assault rifles and stuff. Can one really have a M1 Garand, or Colt Bushmaster in USA?

If you're not a convicted felon and don't have a documented history of mental issues or domestic violence, yes.

Only fully-automatic weapons, shortened shotguns and rifles, and cannons (defined as having a bore of over 1/2 inch) are banned. (And even those can be obtained if you have money for expensive licenses and weapons that are overpriced due to scarcity.)

I, myself, own a semi-automatic AK-47, every bit as capable as a colt 'bushmaster' (which is must a semi-auto M-4, or more technically an AR-15 design modified to M-4 specifications).
Quote:

I thought having a gun and getting ammo was cheap in USA. I guess I am wrong Shocked

It used to be relatively so.
Ever since the repeated gun-banning scares, though, prices have soared due to increasing demand by people who think they have to buy everything they can before it all gets banned.

There once was a time when AK-47's could be had for as little as $200. When I bought mine, after the first 'Obama's gonna take your guns' scare, mine cost $400. They're now selling for between $800 and $1000.
(I bought mine as an investment, and it's doing very well. What other investment doubles in value so quickly?)

Ammunition is likewise increasing in price. AK ammo used to be less than $.10 per round. When I bought what I have now, it was $.17 per round or so. Now, $.30 per round or higher is common, if you can even find it at all.
coolclay
Yep, there's change in the air, but even worse than that is the panic that will (and already is) ensuing.
RosenCruz
Thanks for clarification, Ocalhoun. That was really helpful and things are getting clearer now for me.

In my country, it is pretty hard to obtain gun licenses. Actually, not that hard but government gets a good share of your money every year to renew your license. They just want your money. Medical history is not that important - you can get a mental OK report quickly from a hospital around $100 - , they just want a clean felony record. Domestic violence is not even an issue.


Looks like those old days in US was a heaven for a gun enthusiast like me. Laughing
ocalhoun
RosenCruz wrote:

Looks like those old days in US was a heaven for a gun enthusiast like me. Laughing


It still is, really, for the most part.
The current shortages can only last so long before either supply ramps up to meet demand or demand goes back down to normal levels... and if both happen, we're in for a time of very cheap guns an ammo after it's over.

But more than that, I can't really think of anyplace in the world more friendly (legally and culturally) to gun ownership.
Well, nowhere that's not run by warlords, anyway.
BigGeek
Ocalhoun is correct you can legally own an AR-15, or an AR-15(M4), M1, M1A1 (Springfield Armory's semi auto M14) AR-10, FAL, AK-47, and a host of other semi automatic firearms, provided you pass a background check which is supposed to include a criminal background, and sanity check. A system that needs work.

Also you can get a class 3 license and if you pass the extensive background check and pay the huge fees, you can own fully automatic weapons.

Back in 2010, I was working for Avago Technologies and I was working with two young men from India. They kept surfing the gun sites, and I asked them what the fascination was and they both replied that in India they were not allowed to own such weapons and getting a permit was impossible.

I have quite a collection, not because I'm a nut, but because I was a gun smith for a short time in life, and got into building these rifles from parts and stripped receivers. So I hauled them up to the Pawnee Grass Lands of Colorado to the range at the Pawnee Sportsmans club. We went shooting for the day. Shot Rifles at 100, 200, & 250 Yard targets, pistols at 15 & 20 yard targets and shot skeet with my shotgun. PLUS we rode a 4 wheeler and a dirt bike around the area on the local trails.

The range was packed that day, and the young men from India were given a real treat by the Coloradan's at the range, they were invited to shoot some really expensive firearms, taught range safety, and they were even invited to wear cowboy hats and six shooter belts with pistols and repeater rifles and posed for pictures. They sure were big on pictures, took so many of them they filled up the disc on their cameras.

Sad part is I would never do that today, ammo is so short and expensive I don't have the finances to afford those activities any more.

The two young men from India are still friends and I email them regularly and they still remember the great time they had shooting firearms and riding dirt bikes and 4 wheelers!!!

Cool
ocalhoun
BigGeek wrote:

Sad part is I would never do that today, ammo is so short and expensive I don't have the finances to afford those activities any more.

Oh, I'd still do it... with the normal attitude I take when someone else wants to try shooting one of my guns:
Sure you can. Just shoot your own ammo through it or pay for the ammo you use.
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