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Are you willing to work without pay?





johans
Hello All,

I just want to get your opinion if you are willing to work/volunteer without being payed? I have seen a lot of open source project that many/sort of us are willing to work without being paid. Just to contribute ideas around the Globe (I am part of it) lol.

But, I want to ask this on your side? Give me some benefits? (i will share mine as soon i got some of your ideas and opinions).

Laughing
Nick2008
I think it's great when people are willing to contribute without renumeration. I personally like volunteering in the community because you know that you're making an impact and you're meeting some great people at the same time (I'm sure this happens in open-source projects a lot).

I also find that you are valued more as a volunteer than a worker. A worker/employee is just another number to most large corporations and agencies and are easily replaced, especially in this economy. It's pretty much "Not happy with your job? Well, feel free to walk out the door because there are 10 other people who are desperate to get your position." On the other hand, there is always a shortage of community volunteers and project contributors so your time and effort is more appreciated and respected, so to speak.
Pande
Usually, if I myself benefit from the project (I will use it) or, by participating in it, I also gain further contacts or reputation, then I am willing.
codegeek
If there are many qualified and experienced people working on the same project, and there is some knowledge and social links to be gained, I'd be on board. It is especially useful at the beginning of one's career.
bukaida
The idea of open source movement came from those people only who can spend their free time volunteerily. The idea is that , if you are working for a noble cause, paid/unpaid aspect does not matter. Of course you must have other means of survival.
twotrophy
I would be willing to work for free if it is for a cause that I strongly support or if it benefits me. It is unlikely that I would be willing to work for free of course.
manfer
bukaida wrote:
The idea of open source movement came from those people only who can spend their free time volunteerily. The idea is that , if you are working for a noble cause, paid/unpaid aspect does not matter. Of course you must have other means of survival.


Really this is totally the wrong idea about open source movement and wrong idea about free software movement too. It has nothing to do at all with being unpaid software. It not necessarily has to be unpaid at all. The idea behind free and open source software is freedom. Software started being open source until someone decided the way to monetize their coding were to hide the software source code and taking away a lot of freedom from the people that buys the software. On that moment appeared the free and open source movements from people that believe that it is not ethical to hide the source.

For example because of the source code being hidden the people that buy the software can't even fix a bug on software if they discover one while using their buyed software. They have to wait for the developer of the software to solve the issue, if he ever do it. On open source software the people that buy the software can solve the issue themselves if they know coding or they can hire someone to solve the problem if they need to, they don't have to wait for the goodwill of the developer to solve the issue nor they have to hire the developer to solve the issue if the developer won't fix it otherwise and for some reason they don't want to hire that developer anymore.

In the following Richard Stallman speech he clarifies what free software movement means:


Or in the following other documentary "Revolution OS" that talks about both free software and open source movements we can have a more clear understanding of what they mean too


Has very little to do with the way to finance the coders working hours to create the software, nor with any noble cause (other than being the ethical way of coding) nor with volunteering.

So forget about any noble causes and forget about contributing to open source projects if you have not one reason:


  • You are using the software and you find a bug that you fix and share with the community. Or you notify about it.
  • You do some related work for your own clients and you share it.
  • You want to get experience.
  • You want to get reputation.
  • ...


or whatever reason you have and that you feel makes sense. Otherwise the only thing you will be doing is unpaid work not for any noble cause at all but for the benefit of the owners of the project -which I ensure you are getting profit from their project or plan to do- and others that will find a way to monetize the work.
RosenCruz
on NGOs, I can work without a pay as a volunteer. Otherwise, I believe not.
deanhills
It depends whether it is a voluntary work category, as sometimes employers create this category to get "cheap labour", cheaply. I've seen that happening in Canada. That I don't think is right. But I'm all for genuine voluntary work, like for example visiting older people, or taking their animals for a walk, helping with placing lost animals, looking after cats or hurt animals or birds, providing help for those who are settling into a new country, etc. etc.

I've heard of people though who as part of trying to get a new job, suggest to the employer that they could work X number of days on a voluntary basis, particularly when they don't have much experience.
Quiviro
deanhills wrote:

I've heard of people though who as part of trying to get a new job, suggest to the employer that they could work X number of days on a voluntary basis, particularly when they don't have much experience.

Here in Spain it's not an option, many young students or recent graduates have to accept a voluntary (or almost voluntary, with a very small retribution) job to convince employers they can be good employees.
johans
based on the summary i have read here (frihost); I guess we all love and in favor of working without pay.

I have also seen a post that - there must be a way of survival beside in volunteer. - I agree with this as part of living we need to find another resources for our selves.
raaeft1
I have been working without pay since November 2012 for a media baron.I have requested the owner several times to pay my salary arrears and current salary but to no avail. Every time, he has made one excuse or the other. He knows my weakness that I need accreditation from his newspaper to retain my government house.
It is very difficult to survive without a regular pay packet. The ultimate nightmare is that you exhaust all your accumulated savings to survive.
So salary should be paid on time.
_AVG_
Initially, unpaid internships, etc. are useful since they add knowledge.
Otherwise, only working for the benefit of others without pay is satisfying.
bukaida
manfer wrote:


Really this is totally the wrong idea about open source movement and wrong idea about free software movement too. It has nothing to do at all with being unpaid software. It not necessarily has to be unpaid at all. The idea behind free and open source software is freedom.


First of all, open source and free software are two entirely different concept. All free softwares need not be open source. Every open source software must carry a General Public license (GPL ) along with it.

Regarding the payment aspect, Open source softwares are developed and distributed for free. Charges, if any, can be taken only for special maintenance and customization(Service Charge). Here is the clarification from Wikipedia--


Wikipedia wrote:
Programmers who support the open source movement philosophy contribute to the open source community by voluntarily writing and exchanging programming code for software development.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_movement
https://www.ischool.utexas.edu/~l38613dw/readings/OpenSourceOverview.html
manfer
bukaida wrote:
manfer wrote:


Really this is totally the wrong idea about open source movement and wrong idea about free software movement too. It has nothing to do at all with being unpaid software. It not necessarily has to be unpaid at all. The idea behind free and open source software is freedom.


First of all, open source and free software are two entirely different concept. All free softwares need not be open source. Every open source software must carry a General Public license (GPL ) along with it.

Regarding the payment aspect, Open source softwares are developed and distributed for free. Charges, if any, can be taken only for special maintenance and customization(Service Charge). Here is the clarification from Wikipedia--


Wikipedia wrote:
Programmers who support the open source movement philosophy contribute to the open source community by voluntarily writing and exchanging programming code for software development.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_movement
https://www.ischool.utexas.edu/~l38613dw/readings/OpenSourceOverview.html


As I already recommended watch the documentary Revolution OS where many of the people that started the open source movement talk about it and its differences with the free software movement (don't confuse free software movement with freeware).

GPL is not the only license approved by the free software movement nor by the open source movement. And GPL doesn't mean unpaid. There is nothing on the GPL license talking about money. Nor any of the aproved open source licenses restrict the commercial use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_libre

Though you can read it in the above linked article, considering GPL (GNU General Public License) is the license written by the Free Software Foundation (best example of the free software movement) whose founding father is Richard Stallman, I'm going to quote the following:
Richard Stallman wrote:

Free software is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of free as in free speech, not as in free beer


Some of developers of paid open source software give them gratis (unpaid) for personal use and not for commercial use. Example: Longtail JW Player open source version.

Others choose as alternative to provide it gratis (unpaid) and they charge for documentation or for support to the people that request those services, or they finance with donations, or they do it for whatever reason (some huge software companies collaborate in projects just because they use it themselves or to get profit selling support or a derivative project, or to avoid monopoly from competence), etc... But being unpaid is not mandatory. Any person identifying open source or free software movements with gratis is wrong.

There is nothing about money in open source movement phylosophy, nothing in the free software movement.

The same as freeware is gratis (unpaid) propietary software and there is propietary software that is paid software. Microsoft Internet Explorer is a freeware propietary software. You can get it gratis (unpaid) but is not free open source software.

Free open source doesn't imply unpaid and unpaid doesn't imply free open source.
airh3ad
Now a days there is no free remember. but i would be willing to work for free if it is for a cause that I strongly support or if it benefits me. it is good for your profile if you have involve big projects.
bukaida
manfer wrote:
Don't confuse free software movement with freeware


Did I ever used the term " freeware" anywhere in my post?
Quote:
The term "free software" is older, and is reflected in the name of the Free Software Foundation (FSF), an organization founded in 1985 to protect and promote free software. The term "open source" was coined in 1998 by a group of people the founders of the Open Source Initiative (OSI) who also supported the development and distribution of free software, but who disagreed with the FSF about how to promote it, and who felt that software freedom was primarily a practical matter rather than an ideological one


Open Source Initiative

Various people attached themselves with open source movement for various reasons ( some even prefer to work anonymously ). But the basic idea is always against monopolization.

Quote:
Open source doesn't just mean access to the source code.The distribution terms of open-source software must comply with the following criteria:
Free Redistribution
Source Code
Derived Works
Integrity of The Author's Source Code
No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups
No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor
Distribution of License
License Must Not Be Specific to a Product
License Must Not Restrict Other Software
License Must Be Technology-Neutral


http://opensource.org/osd-annotated



However in the OSI documentation, I have not found anything regarding paid issue. Since they are the official authority of open source, their documentation is considered to be official and authentic. The rest of the things can be considered as personal or group views.
Quote:
All Open Source software can be used for commercial purpose; the Open Source Definition guarantees this.
However, note that commercial is not the same as proprietary. If you receive software under an Open Source license, you can always use that software for commercial purposes, but that doesn't always mean you can place further restrictions on people who receive the software from you. In particular, so-called copyleft-style Open Source licenses require that when you distribute the software, you do so under the same license you received it under.
grofet
Sometimes people work for something just for fun or doing something without getting paid for god. For people that need satisfaction or heaven from god, become volunteer is something special.
onebadpenny
I do volunteer work all the time. Both organized and spur of the moment. And not always for the greater good or to rack up good karma or whatever.. I mean, like I teach adults to read at the library and help with meals for the homeless (there but for the grace of God go I) and I do community cleanup, etc, but I help people with things just because it sounds like fun, too. Sometimes it's hard work, sometimes it's easy, but whatever.
But I'm not about to work for free for someone who is getting paid for work that I've done.. If my boss asked me to come in and work for free while the company was making money my answer would be, "sorry, pal". And the chances that I would volunteer on my own are non existent.
spinout
Yes, if I can do mental damage! Cool
Qantas94Heavy
If you are asking about a situation where a boss asks for you to do them a favour without pay I would steadfastly refuse, however if I was going out on my own volition and helping the society, then that would be something I'd do. Right now my job really doesn't give much time for volunteering Evil or Very Mad, and other times off I am usually with (extended) family - they really value the time together. Smile
playfungames
Yes, Volunteer work that helps the poor and needy.
Insanity
I think it depends on the nature of the work. If it's good experience and something that can be used later int eh future, such as having it on a resume, I would do it. Also, if it's something I relaly like and believe in, I would volunteer for it. Otherwise, I'd ratehr get paid.
doublekk
As long as it is something I really believe in and care about, I'd totally go for it. It could also be a blessing in disguise for the development of the career. And like some people already mentioned, you could also meet some great people along the way who can really guide you furthur..
GuidanceReader
If I enjoy it, have some sort of energy exchange (i.e. someone expresses their gratitude for it) and I feel as though I am doing something beneficial, then YES, I will (and have) worked for free.
bukaida
Just make sure that no one is taking advantage of your good intention for making personal profit, before giving hand to such work.
ZeytinGrafik
That is dependant of the subject and the time it consumes. I would not like anyone to abuse my good-intentions and gain profit just for him/herself. I try to translate software for comapnies (for free for free software) in my spare time.
sadness
there are many who will willingly work for no pay. however, there are very, very few who will work for no gain. whether it is knowledge, experience, or a warm feeling of being able to help someone less fortunate, it is something gained.
Insanity
Sometimes you just have to work without pay in order to get experience. It's a shame that's how it is, but that's how the world works sometimes. Companies usually like to have someone with experience to hire, even if it's an entry level job. It's a bit backwards and ironic, but if you work with it, sometimes it's necessary.
msfarsa
I am agreeing to work without pay or salary. But it must depend upon the nature of the work. If any company or organization work for betterment of humanity then i work without salary. It must be non-commercial and social. Smile
zacky
msfarsa wrote:
I am agreeing to work without pay or salary. But it must depend upon the nature of the work. If any company or organization work for betterment of humanity then i work without salary. It must be non-commercial and social. Smile


I totally agree. It is fine to work for free if it is for a cause. Someone will be benefited as well for free of charge.
boinsterman
deanhills wrote:
It depends whether it is a voluntary work category, as sometimes employers create this category to get "cheap labour", cheaply. I've seen that happening in Canada. That I don't think is right.


Deanhills, what type of "cheap labour" are you referring to? Here in America the economic structure is significantly different, as I understand it.

I have participated frequently in the intentional communities movement, in which a homeowner or group advertises for people to come and live in their community for a short time (on sites such as http://www.ic.org or http://www.icdb.org). Most of them are back-to-the-landers seeking to teach the skills of self-sufficiency in exchange for the visitor's labor, usually called "work exchange".

I also enjoyed volunteering at Free Geek, a mostly-volunteer organization in Portland, Oregon that recycles computers.
Nyasro
Depends on types of work Smile
Some work can be done for free and some needs cost of work.
supermanlovejan
No...............
kaysch
Well, I "work" for an NGO without pay. I just do it for pleasure, and I get quite a lot out of it. A few times people asked whether I would be paid in my role and they are baffled to find out I do it for free.

Here in Germany such non-commercial NGOs who serve the community are exempted from income tax by the way.
BigGeek
I am like most - yes I volunteer and give my time to charity organizations - help feed the homeless - toys for tots at Christmas, food and clothing drives - that sort of thing.

On the job and of things many stated that if their employer asked them to do something without pay while the company benefited financially they would refuse - I am a salary paid employee so I have to say yes all the time - that is the price of a salary paid position your time above and beyond 40 hours a week is given to the company. As much as I do not like it - it is the reality.

On the other end of things I work for no pay for a Network Marketing home business - I work daily for an hour or two prospecting people to see if they are interested in the business - this is non paid work - I only get paid when people sign up, or when they sign people up - I do not directly get paid for this. Of course I do it because the on benefiting from the volunteer work is me and as I grow the business my income grows - so it is a great way to put in time for myself Cool
johans
kaysch wrote:
Well, I "work" for an NGO without pay. I just do it for pleasure, and I get quite a lot out of it. A few times people asked whether I would be paid in my role and they are baffled to find out I do it for free.

Here in Germany such non-commercial NGOs who serve the community are exempted from income tax by the way.


Good to know that if you work for NGOs then its tax free. that is a great initiative from your government.

I think most of us loves to work for free if it is for a cause or NGOs. Some say NO for there own reasons and i understand that as well.

For me, sometimes i say NO that really depends if my primary job gets affected on the time i consumed.
Pippo90
I am completely against unpaid work. If reiterate, it destroys the economic and moral tissue of a country, lowering the majority's standards of living -- there will always be some desperate people willing to work for free, if you don't want to -- leading to a war among the poor, which only increases inequality. This is what has happened in Italy, where now there are two casts of workers: those who have a job for life, no matter what they do -- or, better said, don't do -- and those who'll always struggle among internships, almost always unpaid in this country.
Justmathteach
Volunteering or working for free is great experience.

Sometimes the job you want does not provide the lifestyle (day to day activities) you enjoy.

I like computer programming but working in an office environment 40+ hours is not something I enjoy.

Volunteering has helped me learn what I do enjoy. I am a people person, interaction is important to me on a daily basis.
Da Rossa
Right now the economy in my country doesn't allow anyone to work for free. And unless it is a 'seriously serious' cause for completely needing people, I wouldn't do it. I'm talking about Fifa and the volunteer workers they sought here in Brazil for the 2014 world cup. What is the point?
Beds
It's always nice to do things for other people without getting payed. In a way, you are being paid by helping out someone who needs help. So no, I don't mind not being paid. Money doesn't really matter to me, anyway.
Possum
I think working with no pay is wrong unless you are actively learning. But the pay need not be much. As you get better your pay will increase.
playfungames
Personally, I don't have a lot of time to work without pay. I have class and then some freelancing work, and the rest of my life which keeps me busy. But once I finish class, my free time will have some additional slots. Then, I might be able to contribute or volunteer towards non-paying jobs that will make me feel fulfilled. But only if it is for a good purpose.
tonberry
If it's for something beneficial to your friends, community, country or the world, it's worth it!

If someone is trying to kickstart his career by gaining valuable experience without getting paid (experience being the payment here) or working for pennies, it's a more double-edged sword. This benefits someone in the short run but comes back to haunt him and everyone else in the profession in the long run. People who give work notice that some people are desperate enough to work for so little and start offering less. Salaries become lower and lower because of that. The bright side is that people who are good at their profession will usually get paid properly, it's the beginners and people with little to no talent that suffer the most because of it.

Community service is dead where I live, some form of it should be mandatory in my opinion. When people become disconnected with their environment, they stop understanding that what's good for their environment is good for them and there's only bunch of strangers minding their own business.
mshafiq
I do not think so that i will work with out pay.
ujjawall
work for free if that work is helpful for society.
dbhaskaran
raaeft1 wrote:
I have been working without pay since November 2012 for a media baron.I have requested the owner several times to pay my salary arrears and current salary but to no avail. Every time, he has made one excuse or the other. He knows my weakness that I need accreditation from his newspaper to retain my government house.
It is very difficult to survive without a regular pay packet. The ultimate nightmare is that you exhaust all your accumulated savings to survive.
So salary should be paid on time.


Sorry to hear this.

Back to the topic - open source projects are a good show case of your talents. My company usually asks for a prospective employee's github account url, to look at the kind of projects he's worked, how prolific he is when it comes to coding, how good his or her code is etc etc. A lot of times the work we do is company specific and proprietary. So no one gets to see it. But open source projects are out there for everyone to see. If you have skills and have contributed to Open source projects - your skills will shine through!
LibreMichael
I believe that every person interested should be able to access the best tools for their interest for free. Charging people on stuff that they won't make things for profit is simply unfair. It's like charging people who are willing to contribute to society for a better future. It is simply outrageous. What can I do but to support open source? All these software and source codes should be able to be accessed freely and unlimited. After all, information should be free; free as in beer and free as in speech. I totally believe in open source, and I am willing to contribute.
rebacon
I work without a pay at humanity organisation as truck driver (1986 - 1990)
pauline5765
Of course. Especially when I think I'm contributing for a greater cause. Not everything is about money. Those open-source projects mentioned is being done by volunteer programmers/developers who believe that advancing that project would be helpful to a lot of other programmers/developers. Or it might also be for the sake of your love for that project that had helped you in the past Smile
Da Rossa
LibreMichael wrote:
I believe that every person interested should be able to access the best tools for their interest for free. Charging people on stuff that they won't make things for profit is simply unfair. It's like charging people who are willing to contribute to society for a better future. It is simply outrageous. What can I do but to support open source? All these software and source codes should be able to be accessed freely and unlimited. After all, information should be free; free as in beer and free as in speech. I totally believe in open source, and I am willing to contribute.


But maybe the problem is not about the charity mindset or do-for-love. It's more about the possibilities of working for free. Right now I can't. both my country and I are in the midst of a financial crisis. Sad
pauline5765
[quote="Da Rossa"]
LibreMichael wrote:
Right now I can't. both my country and I are in the midst of a financial crisis. Sad


Ah, what country are you from?
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