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What about the childrens of Adam and Eve?





Lishmares
If Adam and Eve were the only two humans in the beginning, that means they had to have at least two childs, a boy and a girl. Because, when those two grew up and became adults, they also had to have babies if they wanted to populate the Earth... Is it just me or this is very wrong lol. Is this practice ok with god and with todays priest to have a baby with your sister... I don't think so, so wheter it's me that missed something on my religious education or this story is false or maybe that means that Adam and Eve were not alone...

If someone knows something that i missed, tell me please!
Peterssidan
If Adam and Eve was created without any genetic defects it wouldn't have been any problems with inbreeding in the first couple of generations. If this makes it OK from a religious standpoint I have no idea.
taytay
If God could keep Adam alive for 900+ years, he could also cause "inbreeding" to not cause defects until the population was diversified enough. In Exodus God does forbid such things as brother to sister and such. But if you notice at this point, there were millions plus people now on the earth. God has an order to things. A lot of that stuff that happened 6000 years ago is hard to comprehend on part we have little record of it. As I recall the Bible covers 2000 years in about 8 pages as it leads into Noah an the Ark. There's a lot we don't know. As long as we Do remember the important part, of Christ and what WE need to do in order to return to live with God again, the rest sure is fun knowledge and testimony strengthener, When we can learn the facts that is Smile Theories and Possible maybes should be taken with a grain of salt. And always remembering to Pray while studying, and studying not just reading Wink
sonam
How I know God gives only one limit to Adam and Eva. "Don't eat apples from this tree" Today we have lot of don'ts in the world but any one don't say "Don't eat apples" (if we are not calculate Microsoft "Don't buy Apple"). Razz

Sonam
Dialogist
sonam wrote:
How I know God gives only one limit to Adam and Eva. "Don't eat apples from this tree" Today we have lot of don'ts in the world but any one don't say "Don't eat apples" (if we are not calculate Microsoft "Don't buy Apple"). Razz

Sonam


Apple used to play around with this imagery a lot in the early days.



I don't see it as anything more than a clumsily executed Madonna video, personally, but the bitten apple logo continues to this day. I guess Buddhist Jobs had a bite, met Faust, achieved worldly fame, riches, notoriety, godhead status and then nature reminded him who was in charge. Eh, it happens. The guy made some great software off the back of Bill Gates' handout when they went bankrupt in the eighties. Didn't really return the favour, though, which is a bit shoddy.

As for the topic, I think we've collection of these. Incest wasn't incest if they didn't have the same ancestry. It's also kind of impossible to define the word at that time. If incest infers that they are siblings, then that might be incest. If of course, it still wouldn't have had been, because incest had no definition. If nobody wasn't your brother or sister then what does it relate to? Besides, Eve was made from adam's rib so I guess he was just jerking off. They had many kids over many generations. One was even an atheist. Not sure how that was possible as God was talking to him directly, but hey, when has it ever been any different?
loveandormoney
Lishmares wrote:
If Adam and Eve were the only two humans in the beginning, that means they had to have at least two childs, a boy and a girl. Because, when those two grew up and became adults, they also had to have babies if they wanted to populate the Earth... Is it just me or this is very wrong lol. Is this practice ok with god and with todays priest to have a baby with your sister... I don't think so, so wheter it's me that missed something on my religious education or this story is false or maybe that means that Adam and Eve were not alone...

If someone knows something that i missed, tell me please!


Oh my goodness.

Adam was not the first human.
Please open a bible.
The chapter is called "Genesis"?

Who was the wive of Sem?
A turtle?
SonLight
loveandormoney wrote:
Lishmares wrote:
If Adam and Eve were the only two humans in the beginning, that means they had to have at least two childs, a boy and a girl. Because, when those two grew up and became adults, they also had to have babies if they wanted to populate the Earth... Is it just me or this is very wrong lol. Is this practice ok with god and with todays priest to have a baby with your sister... I don't think so, so wheter it's me that missed something on my religious education or this story is false or maybe that means that Adam and Eve were not alone...

If someone knows something that i missed, tell me please!


Oh my goodness.

Adam was not the first human.
Please open a bible.
The chapter is called "Genesis"?

Who was the wive of Sem?
A turtle?


The first _book_ of the Bible is Genesis. The creation and Adam's family is described in chapters 1 to 5 of Genesis.

At the end of Genesis 1, God "created them [humans] male and female". Some think this describes humans created before Adam and Eve, but in context it appears that it is a summary of Adam and Eve's creation, and the details are given in chapter 2.

Shem (not Sem) presumably married one of his sisters, as did Cain.

While the idea of brothers and sisters marrying is disturbing to us today, there was no genetic problem with it at that time. Even in Abraham's time, marrying half-sisters was acceptable. Later, God instructed Moses that from that time on, close relatives were not allowed to marry.
loveandormoney
Quote:



The first _book_ of the Bible is Genesis. The creation and Adam's family is described in chapters 1 to 5 of Genesis.

At the end of Genesis 1, God "created them [humans] male and female". Some think this describes humans created before Adam and Eve, but in context it appears that it is a summary of Adam and Eve's creation, and the details are given in chapter 2.

Shem (not Sem) presumably married one of his sisters, as did Cain.

While the idea of brothers and sisters marrying is disturbing to us today, there was no genetic problem with it at that time. Even in Abraham's time, marrying half-sisters was acceptable. Later, God instructed Moses that from that time on, close relatives were not allowed to marry.



Good morning.
Reading
sentence by sentence.

The first _book_ of the Bible is Genesis.
No
Moses
First chapter of the Five books of Moses ist Genesis.
Genesis is not a book
it is a chapter.

Why?
I am writing this for people or humans, never had a bible in the hand and read it.
OK
Why Genesis is no book but a chapter of a book?
Because of Connection I does mean Genesis and II does mean Exodus, there is no Exodus

without
Genesis
because Exodus does mean go back home.
God is leading.
Atheists, dont be afraid. If there is no god, You dont be afraid because of the action of god.

So the connection is
Exodus and Genesis: Moses and Aaron discuss with the same god like Adam and Eve and all the others like Noah.

The creation and Adam's family is described in chapters 1 to 5 of Genesis.
OK
Part one is Adam Eve and Chapter 1 to 5.
OK
But what is the meaning of the second part: Noah, Sodom, and so on?

OK
Let us talk about
Chapter 1 to 5
later the other chapters.





At the end of Genesis 1, God "created them [humans] male and female".
Somethink like that is Chapter One.
So during this first chapter god created boys and girls and later we can see Adam and Eve and Snake and so on.
But the children of Genesis 1,27 and children of AdamEve marry each other. These are grandgrandgrandchildren of Adam and Neighbour from Genesis 1,27.
OK?



Some think this describes humans created before Adam and Eve,
NO
this is wrong.
But for the people never look in a bible:

What a wonderful language Moses is using or was using and what the word MOSES does mean and how genious is written:

Human and at the same other side Adam and Eve.
So Adam Eve are special but not special.


So Chapter Two Adam Eve and so
and then tragic Chapter 3.
Look at the time.




but in context it appears that it is a summary of Adam and Eve's creation, and the details are given in chapter 2.
NO
Adam and Eve is special. Why?
First they stay on a special place not everywhere and You can find them using the map in Genesis.
Why second?
How is the name of the wive of the grandgrandgrandgrandgrandson of Adam and then this is a human "made" in Gen 1,27
because otherway
bible in Genesis describes Sex between brother and sister.
But read the chapter before Noah and after Adam.
LOGIC:
Maybe You are moses. And You want to make the book for all humans. If Adam was the first human, this is wrong,
Adam is a special human
so if a child is saying: I never did eat forbidden apple and does apple eating create a two level society, is meaning good humans and bad humans, all would now hate God.
Bad point.


Shem (not Sem) DEPENDS WHAT Translation You are using. It is like Paul and Paulus. It is only a symbol. Sorry. I am using Shem. Set is the direct son. And also the same problem. Let us see this this way:
The bible is a very very very very exact book. If no, throw bible away.
So example: We have Ruth Ester Judith Eve and then the women of the Noah family there are no women names.
There is a meaning Moses is writing like this.
So if You read exactly the chapter
between Adam and Noah so You can see
most times the father is mentioned and not the name of woman.
There is a meaning this way.
There is no boy girl conflict.
So everything mentioned and not mentioned in Genesis, there is a meaning.
So please read Genis 1,27 twice.
Maybe then You will wonder.

So like logic style:
Bad boy brother murderer man is founding a town. So this town is not the only town in the world,
but also a town. So it is sounding,
like there is a new family like the Adams or the Eves or the Adameves and the mix with the rest of the world.
It is sounding very realistic.
And good describtion.
What man or woman now studing biological science does not have any problem with this description of Genesis.
And then read also
why does need the murderer to keep the murderer save if there are only
Adam
Eve
finished
this way god only sent a SMS to the parents.But the murderer mark does mean: Many people besides Adamevefamily does live around.



presumably married one of his sisters, as did Cain.


NO
Where is this written
presumably
presumably
presumably
presumably

Who does like this word?




I am copying translation called King James.



While the idea of brothers and sisters marrying is disturbing to us today,
Where is Tabu in Genesis?
Look Father Lot and his two daughters.

"there was no genetic problem"
Why not?
Because then the whole book is a problem
because Adam should be Father of Father then big problem with Your logic.




with it at that time.
Nothing in the bible does have that time. That time does make the book worthless.
What is the meaning of time and god?



Even in Abraham's time, marrying half-sisters was acceptable.
NO
God was angry.
Please read: David does make God angry with bad sex behaviour.
There are no Tabus in the books of Moses.




Later, God instructed Moses that from that time on,
NO
sorry
God informed.
Example:
God informed King David about Noah and Abraham and so
on during meeting like update of software
but god
never did instruct Moses.
Moses accepted help from God and God helped Moses to leave the pharao.
But there are no instrutions but there is support
this is a different kind of view.





close relatives were not allowed to marry.
Cain killing Abel.
God was happy. Oh no.
The Genesis book is full of mistakes against god.

Humans
do want to see fighting with God:
Read Genesis.
Discussion Abraham and God because of Burning Sodom.




Please read.
Not presumably
because Jesus or Moses is no Sudoku.


Regards











1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother' keeper?
10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother' blood crieth unto me from the ground.
11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother' blood from thy hand;
12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
21 And his brother' name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.
23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she , hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.









1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:
13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.





Nothing about brothersister sex.
But mother son sex is describen.

No Tabu.
SonLight
@loveandormoney,

You have opinions about the Bible, we want to hear them, even if it turns out that you have little faith in the Bible. I am concerned that your comments are consistently non-constructive, though. You seem to be throwing out the answer "no" to whatever is said, so you can state your opinion. We would like to know _why_ you hold an opinion; if you have some basis for it we will consider ourselves better informed for having heard it, whether we agree or not.

I stated that Genesis is the first book of the Bible, not the first chapter. That is simply a matter of the way it is normally presented in the US and most of Europe, at least, as far as I know. If you express it differently in your culture, or use words that do not translate directly to 66 books of the Bible and chapters of those books, I would be interested to know that. The simple answer "no" is not responsive.

You do suggest that "Moses", which may be what I mean by "the five books of Moses", should be considered one book. There is some truth to that. Together, they are called the "Torah" [transliterated Hebrew] or the "Pentateuch" [Greek]. However, if you call these five books "chapters" you will be misunderstood. We traditionally divide each of the five into chapters and the chapters into verses, so Gen 1:27 is usually pronounced as "Genesis chapter 1 verse 27". We consider the Bible to be a collection of 66 books, the first one being Genesis. Since the word "Bible" means book, you can well argue that we are somewhat arbitrary historically.

Most Christians who believe in the Bible think that God created two people originally, Adam and Eve. Adam was a unique creation. Eve was made in a unique way, but clearly designed based on Adam. All other people are believed by most evangelical Christians to be descended from them by ordinary human reproduction.

While there are myths about Lilith, and some possibility of interpreting Gen 2 as creating different persons than Gen 1, most evangelicals reject the idea. If you disagree with them, we would like to know why.

I made a mistake when I said Shem. You wrote Sem, which I believe is an alternate form of Shem, but I should have said Seth. I believe you later used the term Set, which I think is an alternate form of Seth. The word Seth does appear in verse 26 of the text you copied.

If you would respond "I disagree" or "I believe <whatever you think is right>" instead of "no" or "that is wrong" you would be regarded as a much more polite person. Regardless of how strongly you believe something, a direct denial of another's belief is considered disrespectful.

I encourage you to continue your study of the Bible. There is a lot of wisdom there, but it's not always easy to understand.
loveandormoney
Quote:

You have opinions about the Bible, we want to hear them, even if it turns out that you have little faith in the Bible.

Good morning. Thank You for Your answer.
Lets starts:
What is a little faith?
Where is the big faith?
What is the bible?
Are humans without bible unhappy?
Quote:

I am concerned that your comments are consistently non-constructive, though.

Thank You.


Quote:

You seem to be throwing out the answer "no" to whatever is said, so you can state your opinion.

There are no and yes?
Whatelse is possible?




Quote:

We would like to know _why_ you hold an opinion; if you have some basis for it we will consider ourselves better informed for having heard it, whether we agree or not.

You did write: Agree or not.
What else is existing?

Quote:

I stated that Genesis is the first book of the Bible, not the first chapter. That is simply a matter of the way it is normally presented in the US and most of Europe, at least, as far as I know. If you express it differently in your culture, or use words that do not translate directly to 66 books of the Bible and chapters of those books, I would be interested to know that. The simple answer "no" is not responsive.

I stated that Genesis is the first book of the Bible, not the first chapter.
If people would have a view like You, then they see the bible as a collection of books. But this is wrong. Sorry.

Quote:

You do suggest that "Moses", which may be what I mean by "the five books of Moses", should be considered one book. There is some truth to that. Together, they are called the "Torah" [transliterated Hebrew] or the "Pentateuch" [Greek]. However, if you call these five books "chapters" you will be misunderstood. We traditionally divide each of the five into chapters and the chapters into verses, so Gen 1:27 is usually pronounced as "Genesis chapter 1 verse 27". We consider the Bible to be a collection of 66 books, the first one being Genesis. Since the word "Bible" means book, you can well argue that we are somewhat arbitrary historically.

Look: Gen 1,27 was never written by Moses. John 1,2 did not exist 2,000 years ago. The number like 1,27 are created in modern times.


Quote:

Most Christians who believe in the Bible think that God created two people originally,

This is no problem. But Adam was not the first human. But special human.


Quote:

Adam and Eve. Adam was a unique creation. Eve was made in a unique way, but clearly designed based on Adam. All other people are believed by most evangelical Christians to be descended from them by ordinary human reproduction.

This is wrong: Daugthers and sons of Adam are the Jewisch people.
Read about the task of jesus.
The book called Old Testament is written about the Jewish People. Only.
And the not Jewish people are created Gen 1,27.



Quote:

While there are myths about Lilith, and some possibility of interpreting Gen 2 as creating different persons than Gen 1, most evangelicals reject the idea. If you disagree with them, we would like to know why.

I am not interested in myths. You cannot find Your Lilith in the chapter Genesis.

Quote:

I made a mistake when I said Shem. You wrote Sem, which I believe is an alternate form of Shem, but I should have said Seth. I believe you later used the term Set, which I think is an alternate form of Seth. The word Seth does appear in verse 26 of the text you copied.

Sem and Seth are children of Adam. They are jewish. Seth is the browser of Cain. And You can find Sem later in Genesis. All these boys are follower of Father Adam.


Quote:

If you would respond "I disagree" or "I believe <whatever you think is right>" instead of "no" or "that is wrong" you would be regarded as a much more polite person. Regardless of how strongly you believe something, a direct denial of another's belief is considered disrespectful.

What is strong believe?
What is weak believe?


Quote:

I encourage you to continue your study of the Bible. There is a lot of wisdom there, but it's not always easy to understand.


Wisdom?

Regards
darthrevan
Yeah I have some time ago thought about how the world would be populated and then I realized yuck! LOL
SonLight
@loveandormoney, I started a new topic, http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-144541.html , in the languages and translation forum, about usage of English words and phrases. I hope we can keep this thread more on topic by discussing them there.

As for the organization of the Bible, it is true that both chapters and verses were added to the Bible in the last few centuries. They should be used only to help locate passages.

My belief is that all humans are descended from Adam and Eve. In addition, I believe we all descend from Noah in our male ancestry, as all males except Noah and his sons died in the flood. The old testament was written specifically to the Jewish people, but they are specifically asked to be "a light unto all nations".

The idea of Jewishness does not occur at all until the time of Eber. From his name we get the Hebrews, the "people of Eber" as I understand it. Nevertheless Only descendants of Abraham are regarded as Jewish, and not all of them. The Ishmailites and the Edomites are descended from Abraham, but only the lineage through Isaac and Jacob inherited the promise and are regarded as Jewish.
loveandormoney
Quote:


As for the organization of the Bible, it is true that both chapters and verses were added to the Bible in the last few centuries. They should be used only to help locate passages.

My belief is that all humans are descended from Adam and Eve. In addition, I believe we all descend from Noah in our male ancestry, as all males except Noah and his sons died in the flood. The old testament was written specifically to the Jewish people, but they are specifically asked to be "a light unto all nations".

The idea of Jewishness does not occur at all until the time of Eber. From his name we get the Hebrews, the "people of Eber" as I understand it. Nevertheless Only descendants of Abraham are regarded as Jewish, and not all of them. The Ishmailites and the Edomites are descended from Abraham, but only the lineage through Isaac and Jacob inherited the promise and are regarded as Jewish.




Good morning.
The question is
are the contracts of Noah or Abraham valid for all humams?
Regards
deanhills
loveandormoney wrote:

Good morning.
The question is
are the contracts of Noah or Abraham valid for all humams?
Regards
Good morning loveandormoney.

What do you mean by contract? And what is your understanding of the contracts with Noah and Abraham?
loveandormoney
Good moring.
Here are some contracts:

Gen 9,9
or/and
Gen 17,2

Regards
SonLight
loveandormoney wrote:

Gen 9,9
or/and
Gen 17,2



Gen 9:9 is a covenant, or contract, with Noah and his seed, or descendants. That should include every human being on the Earth today. Verse 10 includes even the animals in the contract.

Gen 17:2 just mentions Abraham, but the following verses include his descendants. Verse 7 is a covenant between Abraham and his seed. Verse 4 says Abraham will be a father of many nations. Whether they are to be counted as Abraham's descendants or not is not clear. Many Christians regard Abraham as "The father of our faith". Gen 15:6 says "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness". Abraham is a model for us of how we put our trust in God for salvation.
loveandormoney
Dear Webmaster.
This is a mistake.
Please delete this empty post.
Regards
loveandormoney
Quote:

Gen 9:9 is a covenant, or contract, with Noah and his seed, or descendants. That should include every human being on the Earth today. Verse 10 includes even the animals in the contract.

Gen 17:2 just mentions Abraham, but the following verses include his descendants. Verse 7 is a covenant between Abraham and his seed. Verse 4 says Abraham will be a father of many nations. Whether they are to be counted as Abraham's descendants or not is not clear. Many Christians regard Abraham as "The father of our faith". Gen 15:6 says "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness". Abraham is a model for us of how we put our trust in God for salvation.



Good morning.
" That should include "
What does mean the word "should"?
Shall we ask somebody else?
Watch. There are three kind of animals living in Eden.
"Whether they are to be counted as Abraham's descendants or not is not clear." Are the bible and jesus and moses and god fog?
Is god a rumour?
"Abraham is a model for us of how we put our trust in God for salvation." I was thinking, this is the job of Batman, Superman, Tom Sawyer, Roger Rabbit or Mickey Mouse?

So if You see jesus or moses or abraham as model, what is difference from You to people, who refuse Abraham? Dont they go on mountains with their sons?

Regards
Dialogist
loveandormoney wrote:
Quote:

Gen 9:9 is a covenant, or contract, with Noah and his seed, or descendants. That should include every human being on the Earth today. Verse 10 includes even the animals in the contract.

Gen 17:2 just mentions Abraham, but the following verses include his descendants. Verse 7 is a covenant between Abraham and his seed. Verse 4 says Abraham will be a father of many nations. Whether they are to be counted as Abraham's descendants or not is not clear. Many Christians regard Abraham as "The father of our faith". Gen 15:6 says "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness". Abraham is a model for us of how we put our trust in God for salvation.



Good morning.
" That should include "
What does mean the word "should"?
Shall we ask somebody else?
Watch. There are three kind of animals living in Eden.
"Whether they are to be counted as Abraham's descendants or not is not clear." Are the bible and jesus and moses and god fog?
Is god a rumour?
"Abraham is a model for us of how we put our trust in God for salvation." I was thinking, this is the job of Batman, Superman, Tom Sawyer, Roger Rabbit or Mickey Mouse?

So if You see jesus or moses or abraham as model, what is difference from You to people, who refuse Abraham? Dont they go on mountains with their sons?

Regards


I think that a possibility of what happened was some Austrian med student came along called Fraud or Frawed or something like that, and he claimed that he could help people to stop believing in fairy stories via the use of special powers, sort of like telephony, telepathy or remote viewing or something like that. He claimed that he could hypnotize them and have them out-pour all their deepest emotions, anxieties and fears to him whilst under his auto-suggestive duress. Not too dissimilar to how UFO abductees all seem to reveal remarkably similar events and coincidences, concurring with the last patient, beating lie detector machines, without anyone bothering to ask, was the hypnotist a professional? Is this what he specializes in? Regurgitating the exact same questions that he asked the last vulnerable victim, which he gleaned from some book in a barrel about how to cure something which is a figmental delusion of the illusion of reality itself?

All of a sudden the UFO abductee wakes up with new and more vivid recollections, of Greys, Nordic space-travelers and can pinpoint the exact coordinates of Zeta Reticuli on the astral charts. Strangely, they always seem to recall that their oppressors seemed to use some 'telepathic' kind of communication to get them to do exactly what they want. Funny that isn't it? Like clown, HA HA funny.

In terms of Abraham and Moses, maybe they used a similar method of "Transference" (as Fraud did) to receive messages from God through a similar celestial wireless. Maybe they received these messages and relayed them to mankind and mankind became the judge and jury of the diagnosis and the prognosis seemed unanimous due to mankind measuring the motive and value of the claims and believed that these guys were actually on to something, as opposed to Fraud who has been debunked, ridiculed and laughed out intelligentsia with all the haughty roar of Uri Geller or David Ike before he'd even mentioned Oedipus.

Maybe they just consider one to be a pre-dating confirmation of their own aspirations as sentient, free-thinking, logical, well-meaning and motive-searching human beings and the other to be little more than just the irritating ankle-biting charlatan, counterfeit, faith healing, vulnerability-preying, "clown" who lays you down, knocks you out, tells you you're nuts and then wakes you up asking you to cross his palm with 5 pieces of silver.

Let me know if I'm getting warm, Loveandormoney.

Regards.
loveandormoney
Quote:


I think that a possibility of what happened was some Austrian med student came along called Fraud or Frawed or something like that, and he claimed that he could help people to stop believing in fairy stories via the use of special powers, sort of like telephony, telepathy or remote viewing or something like that. He claimed that he could hypnotize them and have them out-pour all their deepest emotions, anxieties and fears to him whilst under his auto-suggestive duress. Not too dissimilar to how UFO abductees all seem to reveal remarkably similar events and coincidences, concurring with the last patient, beating lie detector machines, without anyone bothering to ask, was the hypnotist a professional? Is this what he specializes in? Regurgitating the exact same questions that he asked the last vulnerable victim, which he gleaned from some book in a barrel about how to cure something which is a figmental delusion of the illusion of reality itself?

All of a sudden the UFO abductee wakes up with new and more vivid recollections, of Greys, Nordic space-travelers and can pinpoint the exact coordinates of Zeta Reticuli on the astral charts. Strangely, they always seem to recall that their oppressors seemed to use some 'telepathic' kind of communication to get them to do exactly what they want. Funny that isn't it? Like clown, HA HA funny.

In terms of Abraham and Moses, maybe they used a similar method of "Transference" (as Fraud did) to receive messages from God through a similar celestial wireless. Maybe they received these messages and relayed them to mankind and mankind became the judge and jury of the diagnosis and the prognosis seemed unanimous due to mankind measuring the motive and value of the claims and believed that these guys were actually on to something, as opposed to Fraud who has been debunked, ridiculed and laughed out intelligentsia with all the haughty roar of Uri Geller or David Ike before he'd even mentioned Oedipus.

Maybe they just consider one to be a pre-dating confirmation of their own aspirations as sentient, free-thinking, logical, well-meaning and motive-searching human beings and the other to be little more than just the irritating ankle-biting charlatan, counterfeit, faith healing, vulnerability-preying, "clown" who lays you down, knocks you out, tells you you're nuts and then wakes you up asking you to cross his palm with 5 pieces of silver.

Let me know if I'm getting warm, Loveandormoney.

Regards.



Good morning.
Thank You for the many words post.

"I think that a possibility of what happened was some Austrian med student came along called Fraud or Frawed or something like that, and he claimed that he could help people to stop believing in fairy stories via the use of special powers, sort of like telephony, telepathy or remote viewing or something like that. He claimed that he could hypnotize them and have them out-pour all their deepest emotions, anxieties and fears to him whilst under his auto-suggestive duress."

Sounds like life is a washing machine.

"Not too dissimilar to how UFO abductees all seem to reveal remarkably similar events and coincidences, concurring with the last patient, beating lie detector machines, without anyone bothering to ask, was the hypnotist a professional? Is this what he specializes in? Regurgitating the exact same questions that he asked the last vulnerable victim, which he gleaned from some book in a barrel about how to cure something which is a figmental delusion of the illusion of reality itself? "

Why do You not say the easy words: Bible is a book of myths. But why do then humans read it?
Why does make the bible humans angry?


"All of a sudden the UFO abductee wakes up with new and more vivid recollections, of Greys, Nordic space-travelers and can pinpoint the exact coordinates of Zeta Reticuli on the astral charts. Strangely, they always seem to recall that their oppressors seemed to use some 'telepathic' kind of communication to get them to do exactly what they want. Funny that isn't it? Like clown, HA HA funny. "
Sorry, I could not see the movie.


"In terms of Abraham and Moses, maybe they used a similar method of "Transference" (as Fraud did) to receive messages from God through a similar celestial wireless. Maybe they received these messages and relayed them to mankind and mankind became the judge and jury of the diagnosis and the prognosis seemed unanimous due to mankind measuring the motive and value of the claims and believed that these guys were actually on to something, as opposed to Fraud who has been debunked, ridiculed and laughed out intelligentsia with all the haughty roar of Uri Geller or David Ike before he'd even mentioned Oedipus. "

Why did they not do timetravel or building water transportation like the clever Romans?



"Oedipus. Oedipus. Oedipus."
He is not real. Is he only a fantasy.


"Maybe they just consider one to be a pre-dating confirmation of their own aspirations as sentient, free-thinking, logical, well-meaning and motive-searching human beings and the other to be little more than just the irritating ankle-biting charlatan, counterfeit, faith healing, vulnerability-preying, "clown" who lays you down, knocks you out, tells you you're nuts and then wakes you up asking you to cross his palm with 5 pieces of silver. "
Is this a special code?

Regards
Dialogist
loveandormoney wrote:
Thank You for the many words post.


I fear this may inscribe my tombstone.

loveandormoney wrote:
Sounds like life is a washing machine.


That's an interesting metaphor. Is this because you think that people of faith are all 1 sock short of a laundry list?

loveandormoney wrote:
Why do You not say the easy words: Bible is a book of myths.


But what's a myth, really? The ability to walk on water, like Jesus, or the ability to walk on water like Criss Angel, the "Mindfreak"?

loveandormoney wrote:

But why do then humans read it?


I think they find it rewarding to do so. Whether it is life-affirming, teaching, uplifting or just faith restoring. Others just find it historically interesting. Some (a lot) read it just to pick it apart on the internet. This is because it is a very important Book. Thee Book. The most important book of all time. It means something to everyone. It has extreme relevance in its identity and reputation. The book itself can be used as a crutch to define one's entire identity. It can be used to define everyone's identity. Pretty much everyone is running towards it or away from it. The Bible is the pivot.

loveandormoney wrote:

Why does make the bible humans angry?


See above.

loveandormoney wrote:
Sorry, I could not see the movie.


Oh, it's not a mythical movie. It's a real-life story about a thought-fiddler who thinks everyone is his lab rat guinea pigs. I'll give you a quick synopsis because it's quite a tiresome plot...

He comes into a new community to conduct a sociological test upon those who "believe in stories". He considers himself to be an expert in this area. But he doesn't really have any credentials. He is in fact, just a self-confessed clown who, unfortunately, is not remotely comically gifted. He soon realizes after spending time with his patients that a certain kind of sympathy and familiarity begins to occur. That old story, the more time you spend with lepers, the more risk there is becoming one. So he's dutifully trolling through the community leaving unfunny, 'thought-provoking', at times, intentionally irritating bait for his patients, so he can experiment more, when something strikes as odd. He's become like Johnny Depp in Donnie Brasco. Or perhaps more aptly, Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. He's woken up to the Holden Caulfield realization that it is he who has become them. Alas, that fateful day comes when a patient finally turns around and says to him, "Why do you believe in fairy tales?" After all, he's done nothing but sit there talking about GOD religiously, all day, everyday for the last two weeks!

Outlook: Cloudy.

loveandormoney wrote:

Why did they not do timetravel or building water transportation like the clever Romans?


I don't know if time travel is theoretically possible. I imagine it is, traversable wormholes permitting, but even then, we probably wouldn't end up with flying cars in 2015 (2 years to get cracking on that Fiat). We'll probably just end up with a Mad Doctor, screaming some illogical incoherency about Chaos Theory or messing with the time-space continuum. But 1.21 Jiggawats is hardly enough flux to likely to make me lose my faith in God. What's more likely is that that is a myth. Then I'm just left wondering why any lunatic would believe in such stories? Call you tell me, loveandormoney? Why any lunatic could believe it was possible to confuse FAITH with belief in an attempt to "cure" the faith itself? What kind of idiot would believe in such fairy tales? What kind of clown would presume such a thing?

loveandormoney wrote:
He is not real. Is he only a fantasy.


Much like a good joke? Fantasy has a positive connotation doesn't it? Like a dream/wish inference? Oedipus is tragic figure in mythology. I would suggest that the fantasy is the one who thinks he's funny enough to cure belief in God. HAHAHA. Actually, that is funny! You are a comedian. But, hey... at you, not with you. I guess this makes you a fantasy Dr love nor money? Does it not? Are you a myth that I am imagining?

Dialogist wrote:
asking you to cross his palm with 30 pieces of silver.


loveandormoney wrote:
Is this a special code?


It's a Biblical metaphor, Dr. Mindbender. About snakes in the grass. You'd know that, had you read this book of myths that you don't believe in.
loveandormoney
Good morning

"I fear this may inscribe my tombstone."
Please use short sentences.

"That's an interesting metaphor. Is this because you think that people of faith are all 1 sock short of a laundry list?"
No
I have to clean myself everyday because I am a bad human.
People like that.

"But what's a myth, really?"
Did You not see the difference between fantasy and reality.
Example:
You kiss Your darling.
You think, You are married.
This is the easy difference.

"The ability to walk on water, like Jesus, or the ability to walk on water like Criss Angel, the "Mindfreak"?"
First try, then decide.

"I think they find it rewarding to do so."
For have more money?

" Whether it is life-affirming, teaching, uplifting or just faith restoring."
You live like a washing machine.

" Others just find it historically interesting."
Like Lord of the rings?


"Some (a lot) read it just to pick it apart on the internet."
Do they do the same with their family?


" This is because it is a very important Book. Thee Book."
Why?
Because the neighbour is reading it?


"The most important book of all time."
What is written in it?
How to make dirty every day and wash afterwards?


"It means something to everyone."
Something is nothing, isnt it?

"It has extreme relevance in its identity and reputation."
Without reading the book.


"The book itself can be used as a crutch to define one's entire identity. It can be used to define everyone's identity. Pretty much everyone is running towards it or away from it. The Bible is the pivot."
Without bible, You cannot walk?
With bible, You can wash Yourself?


"Oh, it's not a mythical movie. It's a real-life story about a thought-fiddler who thinks everyone is his lab rat guinea pigs. I'll give you a quick synopsis because it's quite a tiresome plot..."
How about to produce a real movie?

"He comes into a new community to conduct a sociological test upon those who "believe in stories". He considers himself to be an expert in this area. But he doesn't really have any credentials. He is in fact, just a self-confessed clown who, unfortunately, is not remotely comically gifted. He soon realizes after spending time with his patients that a certain kind of sympathy and familiarity begins to occur. That old story, the more time you spend with lepers, the more risk there is becoming one. So he's dutifully trolling through the community leaving unfunny, 'thought-provoking', at times, intentionally irritating bait for his patients, so he can experiment more, when something strikes as odd. He's become like Johnny Depp in Donnie Brasco. Or perhaps more aptly, Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. He's woken up to the Holden Caulfield realization that it is he who has become them. Alas, that fateful day comes when a patient finally turns around and says to him, "Why do you believe in fairy tales?" After all, he's done nothing but sit there talking about GOD religiously, all day, everyday for the last two weeks!"
This is a modern movie.


"I don't know if time travel is theoretically possible. I imagine it is, traversable wormholes permitting, but even then, we probably wouldn't end up with flying cars in 2015 (2 years to get cracking on that Fiat). We'll probably just end up with a Mad Doctor, screaming some illogical incoherency about Chaos Theory or messing with the time-space continuum. But 1.21 Jiggawats is hardly enough flux to likely to make me lose my faith in God. What's more likely is that that is a myth. Then I'm just left wondering why any lunatic would believe in such stories? Call you tell me, loveandormoney? Why any lunatic could believe it was possible to confuse FAITH with belief in an attempt to "cure" the faith itself? What kind of idiot would believe in such fairy tales? What kind of clown would presume such a thing?"

Do You prefer walk on water?

"Much like a good joke? Fantasy has a positive connotation doesn't it? Like a dream/wish inference? Oedipus is tragic figure in mythology. I would suggest that the fantasy is the one who thinks he's funny enough to cure belief in God. HAHAHA. Actually, that is funny! You are a comedian. But, hey... at you, not with you. I guess this makes you a fantasy Dr love nor money? Does it not? Are you a myth that I am imagining?"
So You think, Oedipus is a joke.

"It's a Biblical metaphor, Dr. Mindbender. About snakes in the grass. You'd know that, had you read this book of myths that you don't believe in."
Can the snake smoke?

Regards
Dialogist
loveandormoney wrote:

Please use short sentences.


Okay, let's say that I can possibly grant you that particular request, do you think it might be possible that I could perhaps request a similar, non-demanding easy accommodating amenable benign biddable charitable clement compassionate compliant condoning dupable easygoing excusing exploitable fleeceable flexible forbearing forgiving gentle humoring indulgent kindly lax lenient liberal light mercifully mild, moderate mollycoddling naive pampering pardoning soft spoiling submissively susceptible, sympathetic temperate tractable trusting unburdensome unoppressive favor or accommodating admirable aiding approbating assisting benedictive benefited benevolence of benign unbiased, complimentary consideration and cooperation of courtesy without dispensing encouraging estimating friendly gifting good turn of good will, grace, indulgence, kindness, largess, obligement, parity partiality patronage, regard, respectful supporting token from you?

Can you go away?

loveandormoney wrote:

I have to clean myself everyday because I am a bad human. People like that. Did You not see the difference between fantasy and reality. Example: You kiss Your darling. You think, You are married.
This is the easy difference. First try, then decide. For have more money? You live like a washing machine. Like Lord of the rings? Do they do the same with their family? Why? Because the neighbour is reading it? How to make dirty every day and wash afterwards? Something is nothing, isnt it? Without reading the book. Without bible, You cannot walk? With bible, You can wash Yourself? How about to produce a real movie? This is a modern movie. Do You prefer walk on water? So You think, Oedipus is a joke. Can the snake smoke? Regards


You're presuming all people of faith go to a church and/or confession and confess their sins. You're also presuming that guilt is an over riding emotion with religious people. I guess you are presuming that faith requires religion too. You presume a lot of things don't you? Are these beliefs?

The Christian conscience is a good thing because it assigns a providence to a man's actions. It encourages his sensitivity and compassion to other human beings to prevail when nobody is watching, or when it is not beneficial or rewarding for him to do so. Rewards in terms of monetary value clearly doesn't see an oxymoron in "monetary value". Mainly, the man of belief answers to a higher power and as mankind has always said, "You need somebody cracking a whip over you". When nobody and nothing is providing a "policing" of one's actions, behaviour and intent, Michael, you tend to end up with what you saw in your country with Adolf Hitler answering to nothing and nobody and smashing down all and everything that got in his way. This is why it's good to wash daily, Michael. For a much cleaner mind, body and soul. Why take two bottles into the shower? I use wash and go. Because I'm worth it.

But there's no fear required for control, Michael, as any benevolent despot like Hugo Chavez, Margret Thatcher or Valdimir Putin will tell you. Give them a taste, raise the biscuit. Dog jump higher! You can understand me can't you, Michael? You're in pain aren't you Michael? Come on, let it all out. Tell uncle Dialogist all about about your agony. It's not your fault, Michael. Say after me: "It's not my fault" Come on, Michael, say it out loud to the computer screen. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. Now hug the screen with me, Michael. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.
loveandormoney
[quote]

Okay, let's say that I can possibly grant you that particular request, do you think it might be possible that I could perhaps request a similar, non-demanding easy accommodating amenable benign biddable charitable clement compassionate compliant condoning dupable easygoing excusing exploitable fleeceable flexible forbearing forgiving gentle humoring indulgent kindly lax lenient liberal light mercifully mild, moderate mollycoddling naive pampering pardoning soft spoiling submissively susceptible, sympathetic temperate tractable trusting unburdensome unoppressive favor or accommodating admirable aiding approbating assisting benedictive benefited benevolence of benign unbiased, complimentary consideration and cooperation of courtesy without dispensing encouraging estimating friendly gifting good turn of good will, grace, indulgence, kindness, largess, obligement, parity partiality patronage, regard, respectful supporting token from you?

Can you go away?


You're presuming all people of faith go to a church and/or confession and confess their sins. You're also presuming that guilt is an over riding emotion with religious people. I guess you are presuming that faith requires religion too. You presume a lot of things don't you? Are these beliefs?

The Christian conscience is a good thing because it assigns a providence to a man's actions. It encourages his sensitivity and compassion to other human beings to prevail when nobody is watching, or when it is not beneficial or rewarding for him to do so. Rewards in terms of monetary value clearly doesn't see an oxymoron in "monetary value". Mainly, the man of belief answers to a higher power and as mankind has always said, "You need somebody cracking a whip over you". When nobody and nothing is providing a "policing" of one's actions, behaviour and intent, Michael, you tend to end up with what you saw in your country with Adolf Hitler answering to nothing and nobody and smashing down all and everything that got in his way. This is why it's good to wash daily, Michael. For a much cleaner mind, body and soul. Why take two bottles into the shower? I use wash and go. Because I'm worth it.

But there's no fear required for control, Michael, as any benevolent despot like Hugo Chavez, Margret Thatcher or Valdimir Putin will tell you. Give them a taste, raise the biscuit. Dog jump higher! You can understand me can't you, Michael? You're in pain aren't you Michael? Come on, let it all out. Tell uncle Dialogist all about about your agony. It's not your fault, Michael. Say after me: "It's not my fault" Come on, Michael, say it out loud to the computer screen. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. Now hug the screen with me, Michael. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.


[/quote}



Good morning
Thank You for the post.


easygoingeasygoingeasygoing
This is a good idea. Use the way of easydoing.


Can you go away? Can you go away? Can you go away?
I am waiting for You.

"You're presuming all people of faith go to a church and/or confession and confess their sins."
This is a interesting thinking. Are You a priest?

"that guilt is an over riding emotion"
This is no good. Stop feeling guilty. It can make You sick.



"You presume a lot of things"
Sorry. This is wrong. I am only looking for facts. Science fiction is only for entertainment.

"The Christian conscience is a good thing"
This is a bad thing. You are wrong again. Sorry. It is the basic of using drugs. Moses and Jesus argue against this.
You will often have trouble with Your parents if You like something like this. Like Adam.

"a providence to a man's actions."
You are wrong. A woman will explain this to You.


This is why it's good to wash daily, Michael
Here is Your washing: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

"But there's no fear required for control"
I see a lot.


"Hugo Chavez, Margret Thatcher oder Valdimir Putin "
Are those 3 apostles or 3 angels?

"You're in pain aren't you"
Because of Your post? Dont be afraid: No.
It is a pleasure to answer You.

"Come on, let it all out."
Dont live together with humans, who does not allow You to speak.
Relax.

"It's not your fault"
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.




say it out loud to the computer screen.
say it out loud to the computer screen.
say it out loud to the computer screen.
say it out loud to the computer screen.
say it out loud to the computer screen.
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.


Are You happy now? I hope so.


Guilty feeling does produce bad mood.
Ask Your friends.

Regards
Dialogist
loveandormoney wrote:
This is a interesting thinking. Are You a priest?


No, I'm not a priest. You don't need to be any authority on faith to see that faith is not an exclusive attribute of religion. Faith is a willingness to believe in or of something when have no evidence to support that belief. For example, in your line of work, you think all the lunatics are believing in stories that a) you have no evidence aren't true. b) that it causes them pain. or c) that they are lunatics at all. This is faith on your part. And it has you tinkering with people that you believe to be vulnerable and still makes your line of work delicate. It presumes that they require your help, or that they'd be better off (and not worse off) without it. If you place human wellbeing at the first and foremost of your vocation, you'd have to have a strong faith ethic to keep doing that.

loveandormoney wrote:
This is no good. Stop feeling guilty. It can make You sick.


So can too much of anything. Even good things. It's "nature's" way of saying, "hey, you might wanna stop doing that". Do you think guilt is a bad thing, loveandormoney? There's a word for that: Sociopath. Do you get many of those? Do you tell them that guilt is bad? Would you feel guilty for making them worse if you did?

loveandormoney wrote:
Sorry. This is wrong. I am only looking for facts. Science fiction is only for entertainment.


As opposed to the Faith and the Religion and Philosophy forums that you frequently trawl through on a daily basis? You wouldn't know a fact if somebody told you about one. Not to dissimilar to everyone else, myself included, in accepting that a griffin has never existed because nobody has ever seen one.

loveandormoney wrote:
This is a bad thing. You are wrong again. Sorry. It is the basic of using drugs. Moses and Jesus argue against this. You will often have trouble with Your parents if You like something like this. Like Adam.


You don't need to apologise or feel bad, loveandormoney. I understand that you are saying that you are the product of a drug addled past. I am sorry for your hardships. I feel no guilt for them however, as they were your (or according to your line of work, your parents) shortcomings. However Moses and Jesus don't argue against drug usage. I once met a stoner who informed me that Jesus "The anointed one" used the power of marijuana to heal the weakened (similar to how doctors do with multiple sclerosis patients). I laughed in his face, of course. Until he asked me to research "kaneh-bosem" from Exodus (30:22-23). I laughed in his face again. Thing is, he actually turned out to right (it was olive oil, with hemp, maybe even cannabis extracts). Adam, on the other hand, didn't have any parents. And if you mean in terms of a spiritual divine parent, then his guilt seemed non-consequential.

loveandormoney wrote:
You are wrong. A woman will explain this to You.


That's a fair point. A woman is in much closer proximity to be a more influential providence of man's actions and so has been the case biblically and historically too. But there's a difference between providence and dangling carrot and she's gotta serve somebody too.

wrote:
Here is Your washing: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.


we humbly pray: and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen

It was nice 2 Michaels praying to Michael, Michael. 3 is always absolute. I am grateful to you.

loveandormoney wrote:
I see a lot.


Well you don't see anything regarding fear, or emphasis on fear within religious faith because you don't have any religious faith. I sometimes see people being told that they can't criticize science because they don't understand science. Guess what?


loveandormoney wrote:
Are those 3 apostles or 3 angels?


Thatcher, Putin and Chavez are 3 despots who had/have maintained a large percentage of popularity. They were all somewhat totalitarian in their methodologies, but the difference between earthly and celestial dictators is that opposition to the latter is presenting a case against something that apparently doesn't exist. As far as being "Angels" goes, in terms of the angels who took out Sodom and Gomorrah or the Army of Sennacherib, they wish.

loveandormoney wrote:
Dont be afraid


On topic of Angelology, you know was always the opener, right, Michael? "Do Not Be Afraid..." Every single time, from Gabriel to Raphael to Uriel to the (nameless, I presume Ramiel, although apocrypha, personally as Ramiel means "mercy of God") who wrestled with Jacob and eventually let him win. I'm not afraid of humans, Michael. Don't be silly.

loveandormoney wrote:
Dont live together with humans, who does not allow You to speak.
Relax.


One thing I can't be held accountable of, is not allowing you to speak. You come out with some of the most random nonsense, and I do my best to answer it all and steer it back to 8th or 9th sidetrack, that I presumably caused, as per usual. Anyway, sometimes humans allowing you not to speak can be beneficial. Not everything is black and white and cut and dry, and likewise, I can't flip absolutely every human moralistic standard inside out to support my own arguments, but I can point out that sometimes, "If you've got nothing nice to say..." can be a sound philosophy.

wrote:
Are You happy now? I hope so.


Guilty feeling does produce bad mood.
Ask Your friends.

Regards


Guilty feelings don't produce bad moods. Lack of guilty feelings do. Guilty feelings induce a vulnerability and fallibility and only produce a need for resolution for needs of both the self and the affected party, and unless the outcome is good, it hasn't been resolved. The problem then you have isn't with the guilt, it is in the reaction to the guilt. The Christian has a framework prescribing the best course of action. He may not entertain it, but it's a damn sight better than not having one to consult at all. See: Sociopath, pariah, (I'm leaving out a "title" because it's the Christian thing to do) ETC.

And I haven't got any friends, Michael. I work at burger king.
loveandormoney
Dialogist wrote:
loveandormoney wrote:
This is a interesting thinking. Are You a priest?


No, I'm not a priest. You don't need to be any authority on faith to see that faith is not an exclusive attribute of religion. Faith is a willingness to believe in or of something when have no evidence to support that belief. For example, in your line of work, you think all the lunatics are believing in stories that a) you have no evidence aren't true. b) that it causes them pain. or c) that they are lunatics at all. This is faith on your part. And it has you tinkering with people that you believe to be vulnerable and still makes your line of work delicate. It presumes that they require your help, or that they'd be better off (and not worse off) without it. If you place human wellbeing at the first and foremost of your vocation, you'd have to have a strong faith ethic to keep doing that.

loveandormoney wrote:
This is no good. Stop feeling guilty. It can make You sick.


So can too much of anything. Even good things. It's "nature's" way of saying, "hey, you might wanna stop doing that". Do you think guilt is a bad thing, loveandormoney? There's a word for that: Sociopath. Do you get many of those? Do you tell them that guilt is bad? Would you feel guilty for making them worse if you did?

loveandormoney wrote:
Sorry. This is wrong. I am only looking for facts. Science fiction is only for entertainment.


As opposed to the Faith and the Religion and Philosophy forums that you frequently trawl through on a daily basis? You wouldn't know a fact if somebody told you about one. Not to dissimilar to everyone else, myself included, in accepting that a griffin has never existed because nobody has ever seen one.

loveandormoney wrote:
This is a bad thing. You are wrong again. Sorry. It is the basic of using drugs. Moses and Jesus argue against this. You will often have trouble with Your parents if You like something like this. Like Adam.


You don't need to apologise or feel bad, loveandormoney. I understand that you are saying that you are the product of a drug addled past. I am sorry for your hardships. I feel no guilt for them however, as they were your (or according to your line of work, your parents) shortcomings. However Moses and Jesus don't argue against drug usage. I once met a stoner who informed me that Jesus "The anointed one" used the power of marijuana to heal the weakened (similar to how doctors do with multiple sclerosis patients). I laughed in his face, of course. Until he asked me to research "kaneh-bosem" from Exodus (30:22-23). I laughed in his face again. Thing is, he actually turned out to right (it was olive oil, with hemp, maybe even cannabis extracts). Adam, on the other hand, didn't have any parents. And if you mean in terms of a spiritual divine parent, then his guilt seemed non-consequential.

loveandormoney wrote:
You are wrong. A woman will explain this to You.


That's a fair point. A woman is in much closer proximity to be a more influential providence of man's actions and so has been the case biblically and historically too. But there's a difference between providence and dangling carrot and she's gotta serve somebody too.

wrote:
Here is Your washing: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.


we humbly pray: and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen

It was nice 2 Michaels praying to Michael, Michael. 3 is always absolute. I am grateful to you.

loveandormoney wrote:
I see a lot.


Well you don't see anything regarding fear, or emphasis on fear within religious faith because you don't have any religious faith. I sometimes see people being told that they can't criticize science because they don't understand science. Guess what?


loveandormoney wrote:
Are those 3 apostles or 3 angels?


Thatcher, Putin and Chavez are 3 despots who had/have maintained a large percentage of popularity. They were all somewhat totalitarian in their methodologies, but the difference between earthly and celestial dictators is that opposition to the latter is presenting a case against something that apparently doesn't exist. As far as being "Angels" goes, in terms of the angels who took out Sodom and Gomorrah or the Army of Sennacherib, they wish.

loveandormoney wrote:
Dont be afraid


On topic of Angelology, you know was always the opener, right, Michael? "Do Not Be Afraid..." Every single time, from Gabriel to Raphael to Uriel to the (nameless, I presume Ramiel, although apocrypha, personally as Ramiel means "mercy of God") who wrestled with Jacob and eventually let him win. I'm not afraid of humans, Michael. Don't be silly.

loveandormoney wrote:
Dont live together with humans, who does not allow You to speak.
Relax.


One thing I can't be held accountable of, is not allowing you to speak. You come out with some of the most random nonsense, and I do my best to answer it all and steer it back to 8th or 9th sidetrack, that I presumably caused, as per usual. Anyway, sometimes humans allowing you not to speak can be beneficial. Not everything is black and white and cut and dry, and likewise, I can't flip absolutely every human moralistic standard inside out to support my own arguments, but I can point out that sometimes, "If you've got nothing nice to say..." can be a sound philosophy.

wrote:
Are You happy now? I hope so.


Guilty feeling does produce bad mood.
Ask Your friends.

Regards


Guilty feelings don't produce bad moods. Lack of guilty feelings do. Guilty feelings induce a vulnerability and fallibility and only produce a need for resolution for needs of both the self and the affected party, and unless the outcome is good, it hasn't been resolved. The problem then you have isn't with the guilt, it is in the reaction to the guilt. The Christian has a framework prescribing the best course of action. He may not entertain it, but it's a damn sight better than not having one to consult at all. See: Sociopath, pariah, (I'm leaving out a "title" because it's the Christian thing to do) ETC.

And I haven't got any friends, Michael. I work at burger king.








Good morning.
Thank You for the many words.

"You don't need to be any authority on faith to see that faith is not an exclusive attribute of religion."
So You are priest.
You created Your own religion or You created Your own gods.

"Faith is a willingness to believe in or of something when have no evidence to support that belief."
There is Your religion. This has nothing to do with jesus or Moses.
Gratulations.
What is the meaning of Your religion?
Is jesus like a basketballteam out of Your sight?

"For example, in your line of work, you think all the lunatics are believing in stories that a) you have no evidence aren't true. b) that it causes them pain. or c) that they are lunatics at all."
I understand.
In Your religion the presidents are the gods.
Showdancers also?

"This is faith on your part."
Is this the filosophy of Burger King?

"It presumes that they require your help, or that they'd be better off (and not worse off) without it. If you place human wellbeing at the first and foremost of your vocation, you'd have to have a strong faith ethic to keep doing that."
Is the concept: I want to serve hamburgers for other people to be in a big community?

"So can too much of anything. "
Can pleasure make sick?

"It's "nature's" way of saying, "hey, you might wanna stop doing that". Do you think guilt is a bad thing, loveandormoney? There's a word for that: Sociopath. Do you get many of those? Do you tell them that guilt is bad? Would you feel guilty for making them worse if you did?"
This is very interesting. Your religion is saying, if there are sick people, dont be honest with them. Better to talk with them about flying red delphins?

"As opposed to the Faith and the Religion and Philosophy forums that you frequently trawl through on a daily basis? You wouldn't know a fact if somebody told you about one. Not to dissimilar to everyone else, myself included, in accepting that a griffin has never existed because nobody has ever seen one."
There is a very easy way. If somebody is saying something, example using a forum, then check every sentence: Is this true or not.
If not, then be careful.

"You don't need to apologise or feel bad, loveandormoney. "
Apologize does make feel bad.


"I understand that you are saying that you are the product of a drug addled past."
Sorry this is wrong.

" I am sorry for your hardships. I feel no guilt for them however, as they were your (or according to your line of work, your parents) shortcomings"
Feeling guilty is producing problems. Better You stop it.

" However Moses and Jesus don't argue against drug usage."
Sorry, I did not talk about Your friends Jesus and Moses, who visit You every week in the Burger King.

"I once met a stoner who informed me that Jesus "The anointed one" used the power of marijuana to heal the weakened (similar to how doctors do with multiple sclerosis patients)."
Is it allowed, that You and Your friends Moses and Jesus does smoke marijuana at Burger King?
Do You serve healing sessions there?

"Until he asked me to research "kaneh-bosem" from Exodus (30:22-23). I laughed in his face again. Thing is, he actually turned out to right (it was olive oil, with hemp, maybe even cannabis extracts). Adam, on the other hand, didn't have any parents. And if you mean in terms of a spiritual divine parent, then his guilt seemed non-consequential."
So Your Adam does not have a father. I am very sorry about this.

"And if you mean in terms of a spiritual divine parent, then his guilt seemed non-consequential."
Who is guilty?
Cain?

"That's a fair point. A woman is in much closer proximity to be a more influential providence of man's actions and so has been the case biblically and historically too. But there's a difference between providence and dangling carrot and she's gotta serve somebody too."
Read Ester Rut Judit.
Then read Paul.


"we humbly pray: and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls."
What will happen after this words?
Do You speak them alone or with the customers in Burger King?


"It was nice 2 Michaels praying to Michael, Michael. 3 is always absolute. I am grateful to you."
The right names are
Raphael Gabriel Michael
Read book Tobit.


"Well you don't see anything regarding fear, or emphasis on fear within religious faith because you don't have any religious faith. I sometimes see people being told that they can't criticize science because they don't understand science. Guess what?"
This is funny. Without knowing what money is,to be angry with money.

"Thatcher, Putin and Chavez are 3 despots who had/have maintained a large percentage of popularity. They were all somewhat totalitarian in their methodologies, but the difference between earthly and celestial dictators is that opposition to the latter is presenting a case against something that apparently doesn't exist. As far as being "Angels" goes, in terms of the angels who took out Sodom and Gomorrah or the Army of Sennacherib, they wish."
Why nobody does speak about Gomorrah?
Who is Lot then in Your world?

"On topic of Angelology, you know was always the opener, right, Michael? "Do Not Be Afraid..." Every single time, from Gabriel to Raphael to Uriel to the (nameless, I presume Ramiel, although apocrypha, personally as Ramiel means "mercy of God") who wrestled with Jacob and eventually let him win. I'm not afraid of humans, Michael. Don't be silly."
So You are not afraid in this forum. This is nice.
Or are here other users then humans?


"One thing I can't be held accountable of, is not allowing you to speak. You come out with some of the most random nonsense, and I do my best to answer it all and steer it back to 8th or 9th sidetrack, that I presumably caused, as per usual. Anyway, sometimes humans allowing you not to speak can be beneficial. Not everything is black and white and cut and dry, and likewise, I can't flip absolutely every human moralistic standard inside out to support my own arguments, but I can point out that sometimes, "If you've got nothing nice to say..." can be a sound philosophy."

Silence is golden?
There is a famous book now about grey.

"Guilty feelings don't produce bad moods."
We should tell this to people, living in a hospital and we should tell this all marjuana customers. They will be happy at once.


"Lack of guilty feelings do."
Poor babys. I was reading here in the forum, the real bad humans are the babys.
Maybe because they cannot play being guilty.


"Guilty feelings induce a vulnerability and fallibility and only produce a need for resolution for needs of both the self and the affected party, and unless the outcome is good, it hasn't been resolved."
We do remember, Moses, the other one, and Paul, maybe also the other one, are murderers.


"The problem then you have isn't with the guilt, it is in the reaction to the guilt."
This is guilt.


"The Christian has a framework prescribing the best course of action. He may not entertain it, but it's a damn sight better than not having one to consult at all. See: Sociopath, pariah, (I'm leaving out a "title" because it's the Christian thing to do) ETC."
This is very funny out of the sight of Your Moses.




Regards
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