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Healings in church, are they real.





nickfyoung
We used to go to a little Presbyterian church where healings are frowned upon. My wife suffered from painful arthritis which had her knees swelled up and puffy and very sore. Her fingers were twisted and claw like and painful. She had been to many doctors and tried acupuncture and varies forms of healing therapies. We were advised to move to a different climate which we did but it made no difference.
Because our church had no evening service my mate took me over to the next city to an AOG church which was something completely different. I enjoyed the music so took my wife there the following week. After the service they had the usual prayer time for healing and my wife jumped up to go out the front.
I tried to grab her because this wasn't our church but she went out anyway and lined up with the rest of them.
When it was her turn for prayer she ended up on the floor and was down there for several minutes while I watched interestingly. When she jumped up she came running back to show me her knees and her hands were completely normal and she has not had any pain since.
How do you explain a healing such as that if God does not heal. Some say placebo but how does placebo heal like that.
mgeek
Well, there are still some things that science can't explain.
Dialogist
An innumerable amount of people claim to be (and often medically are) cured after visiting Lourdes and having direct contact with previous saints, stigmatas etc. While, although I do believe in miracles and don't see it as a weakness in faith, I am skeptical of healings and miracles seemingly so flagrantly claimed. I'm not sure why I am, I just always have been but like I alluded to in the other topic, I believe a lot of healing is due to positive thinking, autosuggestion and other kinds of holistic therapy that can easily be administered by religious figures (icons especially) to receptive and willing minds. I believe a lot of ills are endorphin stimulated and stress related, as much as I know for a scientific fact that good exercise frees those and leaves a much healthier constitution as a whole. A happier person is a healthier person. When you have anatomic attributes being conditioned by neurotransmitters via the central nervous system in these cases, then this is clearly a large percentage of mental well being and also, for the sake of expediency, the health all being in the head. If the brain controls the nerve endings and this causes pain and its antithesis Euphoria, then how does this relate to a perceived religious experience or apparition? I honestly don't know if these people are being healed by a divine hand, anticipating being healed by a divine hand, sharing a mass-experience and this starting the process of a positive euphoric endorphin chemical relay and thus confirming it to them - or they were just simply told they've been healed by a awe inspiring religious authority (like a respected priest or saint they already revered). All I know is that something seems to be working, and for whatever reason, a spiritual (whether purely chemical or not), beneficial conclusion is reached. You can call it holism, chinese medicine, aromatherapy, etc, whatever. You can even call it fraudulent if you want. But like Malcolm X once said, "By any means necessary". I personally call it God. As I don't see God having a problem with working through fraudulent hands if His will is done. And I know, that sounds biased. Invoke God whenever it is agreeable to do so. But that's not really it. God is good (the way I see it, in basic black and white terms) and if good was done, God did it. So to answer your question. Are they real? If they work, then yeah. If there any positive result (even remission or temporary comfort or even pleasant distraction) then yeah, better than before, thus job done. So if the results are positive then I guess they are real. Are they real miracles from God? Like I say, I'm skeptical, but believe any good is God so even in all the roundabout possible explanations and debunkings of this so-called "divine intervention" - good is still being done. Whether God personally parted the Heavens and came down and blessed the sick person personally is kind of moot, especially when you view the concept of God and the concept of Good as dichotomous, yet potentially inclusive and jointly exhaustive, then the question is irrelevant. Good is as good does.
nickfyoung
I notice that the current teaching by some is that we were all healed on the cross and we just have to have the faith that we are already healed. When some one prays for you in faith and you receive by faith that healing manifests.

If it doesn't then something is wrong somewhere whether it be your faith or the praying persons faith or something in your life that is not right.

I have trouble with any believe that takes away from the sovereignty of God which many modern doctrines do. Just read one guy that said God has no control over evil on earth now because he has delegated the authority to the church so he is now unable to do it.

I can't accept that God is 'unable' to do anything.
Dialogist
nickfyoung wrote:

I can't accept that God is 'unable' to do anything.


Well then, you are in the infancy of your theological questioning. As are we all, but there's infancy within infancy. For example:

Can you accept that God is unable to be unable to do these things?
nickfyoung
Dialogist wrote:
nickfyoung wrote:

I can't accept that God is 'unable' to do anything.


Well then, you are in the infancy of your theological questioning. As are we all, but there's infancy within infancy. For example:

Can you accept that God is unable to be unable to do these things?


I accept that God is sovereign and can do anything and everything. Your logic is flawed. God is able to do anything and everything. There is no unable with God. To link God and unable is a paradox.
I accept that God is not unable to do these things because he is able to do them.
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