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what is you opinion on MR PYE??





spinout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe6DN1OoxjE

Is he the messenger from god or erhhh something Laughing

1. Darwin
2. Nature OR...
3. Terraformers
Bikerman
Hi is a liar, pure and simple.
He built a reputation in the wakko 'UFOlogist' community because he had a skull which he claimed was extra terrestrial.
DNA tests were done on this skull - which he claimed was that of some 'star child' - and showed, conclusively, that it is human, most likely from a child who suffered from hydrocephalus.
He KNOWS this and yet he continues to peddle his nonsense and the gullible continue to lap it up.
spinout
Hm I have seen a film on the skull too, he says the mother was a human but the father is of UNKNOWN sort (not fully tested). I have not seen any report in the full on this. Hm do hydrocephalus also affect the ingredients of the skull-bone? I remembered that there was problems of the testing since the (higher carbon levels supposingly or similar) bone was so hard.

Anyhow, the red line in this lecture was that the origins of humankind is from an ET angle, so to speak. Darwin is skin-scraped in the dust by mr Pye. Also Nature / God interacting is shipped down the dustpipe by Pye. and Pye does the conclusion is that human kind was made for slavery, for gold... by some ET's. But remakably NOT from another solar system but from ours... and more therories on planets colliding... and tellus is the hm piece left over from the crash. The rest is comets and the asteroids.

Well that is another angle on the origin of mankind? or...
Bikerman
If the father were not human then it is impossible that this would not show-up in the DNA analysis. 50% of the child's DNA comes from the father. The DNA has the usual X and Y chromosomes showing conclusively that the father was entirely human.

Pye is a self-deluding crank or a profit-seeking liar - either way his opinion is of no importance and he is not worth serious consideration.

PS - the idea that the skull had abnormally high levels of carbon is nonsense - human bones (as all mammalian bones) are made of calcium hydroxyapatite. Neither would that influence the ability to carry out DNA testing.
spinout
Yesterday I listened to a radio interview with Pye and now he claimed that it was entirely un-human... some new testing was done. He proclaims the bone is so hard - unhumanly hard - so the test equipment have problems with the samples.

But that head is not the interesting thing about Pye. He has the talent of speech! Very funny approach. Also is the fact that there is missing evidence in human history, infact very intact and strange.

Ok, the downside is the linking, every "holy" book human have produced is the subtile subject and the parts of genesis.

Hm, I saw prometheus with Noomi Rapace... Ha, trendy story nowadays...
Bikerman
He is, as I said, either deluded or dishonest...either way....
spinout
I don't see why that is your opinion?

Find just now a video he did to evade sicknesses from the skulls form:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuMS0x49b70&feature=related

But that skull is not interesting, not to the fact that human/life is not at all complete in its history. Rather strange actually. Hm, the humans variants from neantherthales (? correct ?) to us is completely missing! the missing link that is called I think...
Bikerman
Why is any of that strange?
Of course there are gaps in the fossil record - our species rarely dies in circumstances conducive to fossilization. There is no particular mystery, just a lack of data/specimens.
I don't understand what your video link is supposed to show. The video is some guy make a lot of assertions which I can't be bothered to check-out but which I am sure will turn out to be either incomplete or plain wrong. He quotes ONE 'certified expert' - who was probably taken out of context, and a load of crap about his 'own' DNA tests. CRANK alerts flashing all over the place...
I considered removing the link - it is nothing more than a begging-chain letter really, but I'll trust the intelligence of the readers here to work out which is better evidence - a youtube video by a person with no apparent expertise, no apparent academic standing, making lots of claims and trying to cast doubt on a clear DNA result which showed it for the scam it is.
Alternatively the results of two, independent, respected laboratories showing conclusively that the DNA is human, and narrowing down the mother to an Haplogroup C human female.
spinout
Well the video is a mockery, as said in the flick "A caveman could understand.." aso... It is supposed to show, from my side, that the discussion is dumb... this is just a return of a thrown pie as in old slapstick movies Laughing

That is why I think both sides are generally made of cork. Just like politicians.. Laughing
Bikerman
The video is a rather bitter person indulging in some rather silly ad-hominem attacks, and trying to smoke the fact that two properly conducted tests have independently shown he is full of it.
spinout
I suppose his age is the problem. Time is running out. Still, let say that in the future a trustworthy test is done and well it says it was 100 % human - that is not really of concern of what he stands for.
That skull is just side spin-off - the real message is that sciencetists and their knowledge of human origins are zero.
Ankhanu
And his real message is a lie, then.

Do we know everything? No, that's an absurd notion, but so is the notion that we don't have any understanding. We have a large body of knowledge regarding human speciation, origins and development, however, and it is an active area of research.
spinout
well that is must the stronghold... Every side on the matter is telling the other is lying...
Creationists against darwinists against terraformists aso...

Holy wars or something...
Ankhanu
Not really.

Some things are true or false. Statements like "sciencetists and their knowledge of human origins are zero" are demonstrably false; we DO know many things about human origins based on scientific analysis of the data at hand. To say otherwise is silly. Add on to that that the information/evidence we do have contradicts every Creation story, you'd have to be foolish to accept the stories as being correct. It's pretty reasonable to believe/accept that which is demonstrated to be true, or at least likely true based on the evidence at hand. If the evidence does not support a position, it is foolish to hold it.

It doesn't matter who says who is lying, only the evidence matters, and it clarifies the situation. No matter how romantic or interesting an idea, it needs to be backed up by actual evidence... and not just backed up by some of the evidence, but all of the evidence. Being supported by aspects of the body of evidence, and refuted by others means that the idea is not good.

The only "war" is between the rational and irrational. Razz
spinout
hm, isn't that the problem always... evidence... The missing link... Shocked
So we lack a dozen of mankind evolutions to get the species we are - so the knowledge of this part is zero actually! It is not false. We have no clue how the human species ended up today! We come as far as the neanderthales and similar, then it is a mystery. No evidence at all.

This is why it get "holy", with no evidence -> which book is the most holy??
And no party will accept the other idea... politicians maner.

Hm, what if someone comes along with a combined story Razz
Ankhanu
spinout wrote:
hm, isn't that the problem always... evidence... The missing link...

Nope, not always a problem at all. We have many theories that are extremely well supported by evidence.

spinout wrote:
So we lack a dozen of mankind evolutions to get the species we are - so the knowledge of this part is zero actually! It is not false. We have no clue how the human species ended up today! We come as far as the neanderthales and similar, then it is a mystery. No evidence at all.

This is why it get "holy", with no evidence -> which book is the most holy??
And no party will accept the other idea... politicians maner.

Hm, what if someone comes along with a combined story Razz

I seriously suggest you read some actual biology and evolution texts... current ones. Fossils, of which we have a pretty strong record of human species, indicating a fairly good lineage, by the way (your statement of missing "evolutions" is plainly misinformed), are only one of he lines of evidence we have, including human and mitochondrial genetics, developmental cues, etc.

You say we came as far as Neanderthal, after which we have no clue... Problem is, you don't understand that they were a different, contemporary species that lived at the same time as early Homo sapiens, that died out. Though there is evidence of interbreeding, there's no direct evolutionary lineage from neanderthal to modern human. Neanderthal is not a direct modern human precursor.

Seriously, look into the field of human evolution; we know much more than you think we do.
spinout
Hm in the coffebreak earlier today we discussed the mapping of neanderthal genes in modern man and its spectrum... well... I am not saying this or that is our heritage - I am just saying it is a mystery and anything goes! Even the religious ones might have it right!
Ankhanu
spinout wrote:
I am just saying it is a mystery and anything goes! Even the religious ones might have it right!


It's true that there are questions... but leaping to: therefore "anything goes", is flat out wrong. Saying "I don't know" is fine, but saying "I don't know, therefore magic unicorn intervention" is still an absurd assessment.

In short, even if there are things we don't know, any proposed mechanism or concept needs to be supported by the data we DO have. If it's countered by the current body of knowledge, but answers something for which we don't have evidence, it still fails.
Ankhanu
Sure, it's the target, but, is he hitting it? Doesn't really seem he is.
Bikerman
[MOD Mode]
Apologies - I accidentally removed a posting from spinout. I meant to click 'reply' and must have clicked 'spamcan' by mistake. I have reproduced the posting below as it was]
Bikerman
[/MOD Mode]

Spinout said
Look; the problem is that the "current body of knowledge" is the target here! Pye in this video shut its existence down practically. This is the interesting!
Then what Pye proclaims is just something in the "anything goes"... well well...

The "current body of knowledge" is the target!!!
Bikerman
The current body of knowledge is ALWAYS the target - that is how science works. The problem is not that Pye is attacking current theory, the problem is that he lies in doing so. Science requires honesty.
spinout
ok, what is he lying about?
Ankhanu
spinout wrote:
ok, what is he lying about?

Aside from the Starchild bit, and that we don't know anything about human evolution (or were those your words, not his?)?

For the most part, it's less about outright bald-faced lies, and more about trying to pass off assertion as fact. From what I've taken the time to read, this is pretty much his MO: find something that I can't immediately answer, assert outside intervention, highlight information that might support, ignore information that does not. You might notice that this process falls somewhat short in terms of rigour. He also seems very personally invested in his hypotheses, which makes him somewhat defensive when questioned... reading through his site made me feel dirty Razz

I'm gonna be clear here, I haven't extensively researched his "work", so my specifics are few... but, I haven't come across anything that suggests that his work has higher merit than other assertion based works.
spinout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe6DN1OoxjE

This was the film I found interesting, "Everything You Know Is Wrong" - about human origins . It is quite old today (also pre star child ) but as far as I understand it is preatty much flawless.

I distorted the message - "Everything You Know Is Wrong" is the words from Pye!

See the film - is he lying?
spinout
So he wasn't a liar... he just pointed out errors in the body of knowledge.
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