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The Man Who Quit Money (could you?)





quex
Just read a very interesting article here about Daniel Suelo, a man who lives outside of American capitalism, abandoning the use of money. It is fascinating to read about this guy. He isn't the stereotypical "homeless" person, either; he is educated and sane, and has gone this route by choice.

As impressed as I am, I find it even more impressive that so many of the people he meets are so very tolerant and understanding of his choice. I suspect this fellow is much more eloquent and personable than the article lets on. Honestly, how many authority figures have the patience to hear somebody out after they first tell you "I don't use money" when you arrest them?

I don't think I could live without modern conveniences... especially prescription medicine. -_-' Camping and foraging would be okay, though. How about you?
loyal
quex wrote:

I don't think I could live without modern conveniences... especially prescription medicine. -_-' Camping and foraging would be okay, though.

That's the difficulty in attempting to carry out that lifestyle: to use any benefits of modern life, you need to be part of the system (i.e. exchange money for products, healthcare, etc.) And so it makes nigh-impossible for someone to break out. What happens when this man becomes seriously ill? How will he get the drugs or surgery he needs?
quex
loyal wrote:
quex wrote:

I don't think I could live without modern conveniences... especially prescription medicine. -_-' Camping and foraging would be okay, though.

That's the difficulty in attempting to carry out that lifestyle: to use any benefits of modern life, you need to be part of the system (i.e. exchange money for products, healthcare, etc.) And so it makes nigh-impossible for someone to break out. What happens when this man becomes seriously ill? How will he get the drugs or surgery he needs?


I wonder if he would consider those things a need for himself, personally. Maybe his intent in that situation would be to suffer the disease and rely on what treatments are available to him outside of the system? I think we always gloss over this (those of us living in a modern first-world situation, myself included) but pulling out all the stops to pursue a cure or full recovery is not necessarily the only option you have when you are ill. Even with life threatening diseases or injuries, you have the right to refuse any treatment for yourself that you do not want to undertake. He might choose to eat herbs for pain and die naturally if his disease/injury is fatal.

More controversially, you can also refuse to allow your children to have a medical treatment until they are 18 years old (in the US, anyway), which has led to more than one case of children dying because their parents denied medicine on religious grounds...
menino
This reminds me of that movie = "Into the wild", where the guy survives on nature mainly, and gives all his money to charity.

I think what he is doing is commendable, but I doubt everyone will be able to do this.

Most people choose to be part of society and part of the economy that comes with it, including the greed and stress.

The good thing is that he has a hermit to teach him survival skills in the wild.

Its also strange now that a buddhist monastery charges for staying, but maybe it is to dissuade freeloaders from staying there for free all the time.

I would love to live free, but at this point of time, I don't think I would be able to, especially with my weaknesses - need of medical aid,since I get sick a little more often than before; economic requirements for living; a nice hot shower Very Happy, etc.
ocalhoun
menino wrote:
This reminds me of that movie = "Into the wild", where the guy survives on nature mainly, and gives all his money to charity.

...Except that he froze to death because he was silly enough to try and do so in Alaska of all places.
menino
ocalhoun wrote:
...Except that he froze to death because he was silly enough to try and do so in Alaska of all places.


I don't think it was Alaska, but actually, he ate the wrong fruit, which poisoned him and he succumbed to that.

Anyways, there are people that do live in the caves in the mountains with bare minimum requirements, till today, in some parts of Eastern Europe and also Asia.
They do some trade barter for essential necessecities in return for their handicrafts / raw material.
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
menino wrote:
This reminds me of that movie = "Into the wild", where the guy survives on nature mainly, and gives all his money to charity.

...Except that he froze to death because he was silly enough to try and do so in Alaska of all places.
I thought he actually went to Alaska to die. He had a death wish. The first part of that death wish was to tear up all his ID papers and then to find funding as a nobody in order to go to Alaska and die.
IceCreamTruck
I heard that it was vegetation which he ate that caused his problems. Often survivors will eat leafy greens off just about any plant when hungry because they know their body is better off processing that then going completely hungry, which I think he was at the time.

So, he ate some random leafy greens to keep up on iron and energy and the greens he ate were not completely digestible, so it lined his intestines and prevented his body from getting nutrients from the good food that he was eating, so his original decline in energy and strength turned into severe malnutrition from which it was impossible to bring him back without surgery to remove the blockage, and by that point he was so far vitamin depraved that his organs began shutting down.

Did anyone here any other facts about how he died? I cannot site my source on this as I cannot remember where I heard that whole deal, but I was very curious on how he actually died because the only thing that seemed dangerous about what he was doing was that he was in Alaska. I think his risk of being killed by moose was higher than malnutrition risks by far! It's like he said... he's surrounded by food, but you just have to know where to look. Sure... look inside your belly and make sure your body is processing the food you put in, right? Good luck with that!
ocalhoun
IceCreamTruck wrote:
because they know their body is better off processing that then going completely hungry,

Completely wrong.
Usually, you can go around 30 days without any food before lack of food really incapacitates you...

But eat a toxic/poisonous plant, and you could be incapacitated within hours... maybe even minutes if you've chosen very badly when picking what to eat.


Anyway, unless the area is lush, and you know lots of edible plants around*, you'll have a very hard time sustaining yourself on plants... Humans aren't very efficient as exclusive herbivores.
Nuts, fruits, roots, and berries, if you can find them, are definitely worth the time to collect and eat... but leaves and twigs... not so much.

*If you're going to play wilderness-survival-man, it would behoove you to thoroughly learn which local plants are edible and which are not... And more than that, which ones are especially nutritious, and which ones, while edible, aren't really worth the time to eat... (and while we're at it) and furthermore which ones might have other uses besides food. (The green inner bark of aspen trees, for example, contains a natural form of aspirin -- could be used to reduce pain or fight a fever... though it tastes terribly bitter.)
IceCreamTruck
He had been at the 30 day mark, vitamin wise, and I believe that he ate what he ate for the vitamin C content. Be it apparently an alluring local coniferous plant? I know that making tea out of pine needles is a cheap way of getting vitamin C required to fight off scurvy. Any mushrooms, sprouts, roots, leaves, or other such local offerings change drastically on geographic location, and a local guide is a must have! He must have prayed to the wrong american indian gods to have died way up in Alaska all lone like a lone wolf. He should have prayed to a different god then, or actually took a trip to the library before heading out on big adventure.
Hello_World
I saw this as a movie I believe... the plant he ate looked very much like an edible plant. So I believe. With medical help he could have survived. No idea how close the movie and real life were.

I was under the impression that a Buddhist monastry would waive the fee if you have real financial trouble. Maybe that is just in Australia?

I would very much love to live in a society that is not based around money. However, I need to iterate 'society'. I do not think I could live outside of society like this man. And it may well work for him, but as someone said, it isn't sustainable if, say, everyone started doing it. Society would break down into scavanger people or back to cave-person people...

I couldn't live without medical treatment. Period.

I also wouldn't want to do this. I wouldn't want to choose a life based on survival, I feel we have more to offer in this world.
menino
I believe that society serves a purpose that makes it easier for everyone to live a certain way according to the times, which is why we pay taxes (except the middle east probably), and be part of the system.
Not everyone can live without money, but still, personally, I don't think that money should be put in the highest regard. It is just a tool that we all use to earn and then get what we want / like.
Society gives us facilities, such as medical provisions, electricity, water, shelter, etc, so we can all benefit from it.
Not everyone can live on just wild plants, and those that choose to do, can do so of their own free will.
Those that do, do show others a big picture of where they are, and what others do, from a certain angle.
Just IMO.
Gitesh
quex wrote:
Just read a very interesting article here about Daniel Suelo, a man who lives outside of American capitalism, abandoning the use of money. It is fascinating to read about this guy. He isn't the stereotypical "homeless" person, either; he is educated and sane, and has gone this route by choice.

As impressed as I am, I find it even more impressive that so many of the people he meets are so very tolerant and understanding of his choice. I suspect this fellow is much more eloquent and personable than the article lets on. Honestly, how many authority figures have the patience to hear somebody out after they first tell you "I don't use money" when you arrest them?

I don't think I could live without modern conveniences... especially prescription medicine. -_-' Camping and foraging would be okay, though. How about you?

Camping and foraging is far away from form our modern lifestyle., its impossible for atleast me to go out there and hunt for food. Its the bold step by the man to abondone the use of money.
ocalhoun
Hello_World wrote:

I was under the impression that a Buddhist monastry would waive the fee if you have real financial trouble. Maybe that is just in Australia?

They're kind of few-and-far-between in most places though, even if they do offer free medical help.
(Especially places like Alaska! ^.^)
IceCreamTruck
ocalhoun wrote:
Hello_World wrote:

I was under the impression that a Buddhist monastry would waive the fee if you have real financial trouble. Maybe that is just in Australia?

They're kind of few-and-far-between in most places though, even if they do offer free medical help.
(Especially places like Alaska! ^.^)


I didn't know that "Buddhist" was a medical plan option!
Hello_World
I was replying to this lol

Quote:
Its also strange now that a buddhist monastery charges for staying, but maybe it is to dissuade freeloaders from staying there for free all the time.


He was turned away from a Buddhist monastry when he didn't have money to pay, it says in the article.
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