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Spontaneous Human Combustion





jilbs
Hi, anybody can share about Spontaneous Human Combustion?

Personally i think this one is possible. I just don't know how it happens scientifically.


see info about SHC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_human_combustion
ocalhoun
jilbs wrote:

Personally i think this one is possible.

Maaaaybe... but it is very disputed, and since it is so rare and so ephemeral, there is little evidence to support it.
Quote:
I just don't know how it happens scientifically.

Nobody does. That's because there's never been an opportunity to observe and analyze it.



Question though... Why is it only spontaneous human combustion... Why are animals not subject to this effect?
Bikerman
I think this one belongs in the category: unsupported anecdote
If I understand correctly there is no hard evidence, and not even a proposed mechanism. Whilst the latter doesn't rule it out, when combined with the former it makes it pretty shaky....
Dennise
I heard that Bigfoot, Saquatch and Yeiti finally perished from SCC (Spontaneous Cryptid Combustion)..... they all self-ignited inside one of those 'crop circles'.

Their charred remains were beamed up into a waiting UFO .... never to be seen again Rolling Eyes
ocalhoun
Dennise wrote:
I heard that Bigfoot, Saquatch and Yeiti finally perished from SCC (Spontaneous Cryptid Combustion)..... they all self-ignited inside one of those 'crop circles'.

Their charred remains were beamed up into a waiting UFO .... never to be seen again Rolling Eyes

Awww... man.... I was wondering what happened to Bigfoot. It had been forever since I talked to that guy...
Shame about the combustion thing... But he always did want to travel the stars... so I guess now he got his wish. *tear*
menino
It may be possible with the many chemicals in our body, but its not a proven fact, and you will get more information from this link : - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_human_combustion
There are very few rare cases of it happening, as per the wikipedia information, and holds some theories as well.

For animals, having spontaneous combustion, I doubt that the other animals who saw it would report it. Laughing
Bikerman
I think the wiki article is a little weak. The important point, IMHO, is :
Quote:
Many hypotheses attempt to explain how SHC might occur but according to those that rely on current scientific understanding, incidents that might appear as spontaneous combustion actually had an external source of ignition

This is esentially ruling out the 'spontaneous' bit - ie humans cannot simply burst into flames, it requires an existing ignotion source. Even then, I don't think there is any persuasive evidence that a human can burn. We know what burning a body requires - in fact we have many experts in the field - people who burn human bodies daily - those running cremation facilities (can't find a word for 'an expert in cremation').
In reality it takes extremely high temperatures to burn a body - a cremation furnace typically operates at around 1700C. No source of ignition is anywhere near that temperature in normal everyday life.
kelseymh
Bikerman wrote:
... those running cremation facilities (can't find a word for 'an expert in cremation').


Well, the professional organization in the US uses the euphemistically neutral term "operator" (http://www.cremationassociation.org/?page=COCP) Smile.

If I made my own suggestion for a short word meaning "expert in cremation", I think I would be accused of triggering Godwin's Law Smile
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
This is esentially ruling out the 'spontaneous' bit - ie humans cannot simply burst into flames, it requires an existing ignotion source.

True... I do think it's telling that an unusually high percentage of purported victims of this phenomenon were smokers...

And while extremely high temperatures are normally needed... there are, perhaps, conditions that would increase flammability (at least in some degree).
Bikerman
ocalhoun wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
This is esentially ruling out the 'spontaneous' bit - ie humans cannot simply burst into flames, it requires an existing ignotion source.

True... I do think it's telling that an unusually high percentage of purported victims of this phenomenon were smokers...
I don't. The majority of reported cases are quite old and a majority of people smoked in previous decades.
Quote:
And while extremely high temperatures are normally needed... there are, perhaps, conditions that would increase flammability (at least in some degree).
Such as ?
kelseymh
Bikerman wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
This is esentially ruling out the 'spontaneous' bit - ie humans cannot simply burst into flames, it requires an existing ignotion source.

True... I do think it's telling that an unusually high percentage of purported victims of this phenomenon were smokers...
I don't. The majority of reported cases are quite old and a majority of people smoked in previous decades.
Quote:
And while extremely high temperatures are normally needed... there are, perhaps, conditions that would increase flammability (at least in some degree).
Such as ?


One of the suggestions for some cases is wicking. Someone sufficiently asleep/unconscious could have a smoldering heat source cause a localized burn. Subcutaneous fat then melts out providing both fuel and a way for combustion to travel back into the fat, essentially cooking them below the skin.

There was an episode of the original CSI (Las Vegas) where they "tested" this model using a pig carcass. Entertainment isn't a validation, obviously, but I did appreciate that they went for a plausibly scientific explanation, rather than mumbo-jumbo.
Bikerman
Hmmm...Some of the reported cases apparrently would require temps of 3000 C or so - I can't see how the 'wick effect' could cause that.....It also seems a little odd that people would apparently sleep through several hours of slow burning.....I suppose it could be that they first die and then burn....
jilbs
ocalhoun wrote:

Question though... Why is it only spontaneous human combustion... Why are animals not subject to this effect?


This is a very good question, I agree. maybe there is, who knows? Our knowledge is still on it's infant stage i guess. who knows, maybe someone from the sky will be able to explain it. Very Happy
ocalhoun
jilbs wrote:
who knows, maybe someone from the sky will be able to explain it. Very Happy

Now there's a great scientific approach.

codersfriend
Some suggest that is the electricity found in the human body .. usually triggered by alcoholism
ocalhoun
codersfriend wrote:
Some suggest that is the electricity found in the human body .. usually triggered by alcoholism

I've measured the electricity found in the human body (boredom + sensitive electronic measuring equipment readily available)... a very interesting thing to investigate.

But one thing is obvious from the beginning: the amount of electricity is very small.
Far too small to ignite even highly flammable things, much less things that are usually difficult to burn.
Iceaxe0410
I think the more likely source of many reported human combustion cases are from external sources at least for the ignition. Take for instance, static electricity from clothes or perhaps a cigarette, lighter, cigar, oil lamp, fireplace, etc. And yes, static electricity from clothes can cause fires.

The other requirements for combustion are O2 and fuel; fuel being the main source of the controversy. It's doubtful that a person can drink enough alcohol to cause human combustion. From what I've read, one would have extreme alcohol poisoning in order to satisfy the conditions for combustion. Although, considering that alcohol can leave the body through the pores of the skin, it's not impossible that the alcohol could catch on fire. It's more improbable that it would be enough to cause the instant vaporization of the body.
orangbaik
its all hoax dude
trust me
codegeek
This is actually the first I have heard of it, and I must confess that my first impression is that it is nothing but a myth. I guess I have some Googling to do because this one seems interesting.
LxGoodies
hype.. it was investigated but

Wikipedia wrote:
Nickell and Fischer’s investigation—which looked at cases in the eighteenth, nineteenth, and twentieth centuries—showed that, again and again, the burned bodies were near plausible sources for the ignition: candles, lamps, fireplaces, and so on. Sometimes these sources were left out of popular accounts of the alleged phenomenon while they were hyped as mysterious.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_human_combustion

Of course, it's also a very nice excuse to say ignition was "spontaneous" .. say for insurance reasons.. instead of blaming the person actually responsible for a fire, you can claim a supernatural cause like SHC.

Lx
zaxacongrejo
hi never been proved before
LxGoodies
Well.. when I read some of your submits on this forum, Zaxacongrejo.. I start cooking inside Embarassed

But the heat is not enough to autocombust myself

Very Happy Lx
zaxacongrejo
and??
LxGoodies
Hmm it was just a joke Laughing

When I start to autocombust I'll warn you when you're near !

Lx
shashwatblack
i have heard about this a few times.. there is also something called Autocombustophobia, a fear of spontaneous human combustion. maybe it does happen, but it seems pretty farfetched to be real. 200 cases worldwide over 300 years? 200 out of tens of billions of people? that's just too less to account for anything. the fear however, seems legit. you cannot just explain a fear, it happens at a deep psychological level, but you cann explain a phenomena like that, at least you should be able to. Satan didn't just pop up and put the human on fire.. the fact that it is still much unexplained means it has to be hoax.

also i have heard of weapons that fire infrared waves to the enemy targets tens of miles away, and make them burn up, not literally, only to the point that they feel too uncomfortable to stay in the same position and then they just walk away or faint.
not related (maybe) still pretty interesting..
Nick2008
I remember reading a case about a man spontaneously combusting about a year or so ago. It was the first time that a coroner in Ireland had decided that spontaneous human combustion was the cause of death. I'm really not sure how this is possible, apparently if there's just the perfect balance of certain chemical elements in your bloodstream then they can react and combust. Regardless of whether this is real or not, it's definitely very intriguing and will probably remain a medical mystery for many decades to come as a result of scant cases of it.

Quote:

'First Irish case' of death by spontaneous combustion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15032614
LxGoodies
Nick2008 wrote:
I remember reading a case about a man spontaneously combusting about a year or so ago. It was the first time that a coroner in Ireland had decided that spontaneous human combustion was the cause of death. I'm really not sure how this is possible, apparently if there's just the perfect balance of certain chemical elements in your bloodstream then they can react and combust. Regardless of whether this is real or not, it's definitely very intriguing and will probably remain a medical mystery for many decades to come as a result of scant cases of it.

Quote:

'First Irish case' of death by spontaneous combustion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15032614


Hmm

BBC article wrote:
The court heard Mr Faherty had been found lying on his back with his head closest to an open fireplace.

The fire had been confined to the sitting room. The only damage was to the body, which was totally burnt, the ceiling above him and the floor underneath him.


His head toward the open fireplace.. could there have been a ball lightning that struck this man ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning

Smile Lx
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