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Faith





johans
This 2012, I will extend my faith to the highigest level. This will be more focus to our Lord Jesus Christ and do more positive thinking to achieved my goals for this year. Pray more and put God to the center of my life. Show more love, Care, Giving and open my heart to those who need my assistance and help.

stay focus on my goal..

Smile
GuidanceReader
I hope to do the same thing, but with a slight different focus, as my religion is different. Good luck with it and I hope you find the centering, clarity and connection with God and Jesus that you are looking for.
MrTylerGreen
johans wrote:
This 2012, I will extend my faith to the highigest level. This will be more focus to our Lord Jesus Christ and do more positive thinking to achieved my goals for this year. Pray more and put God to the center of my life. Show more love, Care, Giving and open my heart to those who need my assistance and help.

stay focus on my goal..

Smile


I am glad to hear this commitment! I'd like to encourage you to do this! It is probably the most productive thing any person can do!

Can I ask, what sorts of things will you do to make this goal a reality? I understand praying more, but how will you quantify showing more love? What does putting God in the center of your life look like to you?
menino
I also want to keep and renew my faith is Jesus Christ, but I get caught up in the world and day to day activities, and after a while, I completely stop praying even.
But mostly, I pray everyday, and try to keep HIS Word.

Its good what you hope to do, and I wish you well, Joyans.
All the best. I think its a very difficult thing to do.
nickfyoung
menino wrote:
I also want to keep and renew my faith is Jesus Christ, but I get caught up in the world and day to day activities, and after a while, I completely stop praying even.
But mostly, I pray everyday, and try to keep HIS Word.

Its good what you hope to do, and I wish you well, Joyans.
All the best. I think its a very difficult thing to do.


Faith of that level does seem difficult or we seem to make it difficult. It need not be difficult. Remember, what is required is the faith of a little child. A simple natural faith, not a manufactured intellectual adult concoction.

Watch a little child jumping into a swimming pool into the arms of his Dad. He scrambles out and jumps in again and again with complete faith that his Dad will catch him. It never enters his mind that his Dad will drop him.

Try and relate that simple child like faith to your faith in Jesus, God and even the Holy Spirit. Accept with faith what He has done for you. Have no doubts at all. Thank Him for it continuously. That way you are in constant contact and living in that faith realm. Everything that happens, good or bad, thank Him for it as it happens, all day long. If it is a good happening thank him on the spot and praise him for it. If it is a bad happening thank Him for being in control of the situation and working it for good.

Just keep talking to Him. You don't have to be 'praying' but talking, all day. Keep in contact as a good friend. If you find a handy parking spot, thank Him. If you can't find one ask him for one as you are driving around. If you hit your finger with a hammer and swear because it hurt, tell Him sorry straight away. Tell him you will try harder not to swear. He understands, he is not some ogre but a loving kind God who just loves to have relationship with you.

Develop that relationship. Talk to Him always about everything all day. Your faith will grow.
busman
I'm not trying to be a dick here but if you talk to voices inside your head and hear a seperate distinct voice telling you to do things, those are VERY REAL symptoms of schizophrenia and you (whomever) may need to see a doctor.
nickfyoung
busman wrote:
I'm not trying to be a dick here but if you talk to voices inside your head and hear a seperate distinct voice telling you to do things, those are VERY REAL symptoms of schizophrenia and you (whomever) may need to see a doctor.


Can't argue with that. One would have to be a nutter to talk to voices inside ones head and hear a separate distinct voice telling you to do things.

Who does that, these mass shootings guys maybe. Never come across it but the psychologist probably have.
deanhills
busman wrote:
I'm not trying to be a dick here but if you talk to voices inside your head and hear a seperate distinct voice telling you to do things, those are VERY REAL symptoms of schizophrenia and you (whomever) may need to see a doctor.
I'd think schizophrenia is a serious disease. Sort of not something to be made light off. I occasionally (once in a blue moon) wake up in the morning with music in my head. A tune I haven't heard before. I'm sure it is like a dream where all of different music worked itself into that tune and there is a good rational explanation for it. I'm not saying it is divinely inspired. But that tune is definitely real. So guess I need to get checked out for schizophrenia then?

I think most of our lives work like that. Our experiences, all interact and may evolve in something that is completely unique to us. For example if we participate in a very vocal religion where people are talking God every day, then I don't see it as far-fetched that some people have conversations in their head with God and may even dream God is talking to them. I'd say it's pretty normal. And perfectly sane.
busman
deanhills wrote:
For example if we participate in a very vocal religion where people are talking God every day, then I don't see it as far-fetched that some people have conversations in their head with God and may even dream God is talking to them. I'd say it's pretty normal. And perfectly sane.


I have conversations in my head with Muba Muba, who tells me to be a great person, and when I dream of him he really talks to me. Muba Muba live in the supernatural existenialist confederation but he can answer prayers and intervene.


None of the parts in blue seem a little odd to you? Maybe a little ridiculous, maybe a little insane? I see a ton of similarities in those two concepts and it scares me that its like that sometimes. To do logical things does not make one sane or insane, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is what makes one insane, and the religious do it over and over again. How many people pray for world peace because their son got shot in the chest or bombed? How many people pray for something to eat every night while were all surfing the web? How many people pray for the inhumane abuse's, their suffering to just stop? It is horrible to hold a true belief of which there is no evidence. None for and none against (so far). A religous text is not counted seeing as its from a biased source. I might say that I would be biased too, but there is plenty of people whom aren't like that should be able to study it in a even-minded manner and the evidence doesn't seem to stack for the god argument so much. To have an UNQUESTIONABLE belief that there is someone inside your head talking to you and that you should be willing to legislate hate, pass judgement, propagate bigotry and then say it's all in the name of faith: It's not a belief that I would hold to my own standerds. I will always move forward in my knowledge and abilities as opposed to KNOWING the truth. I am one measly human being, I don't know s* but what I do know is if the prison polls are any indicators than the majority of bad people are religous. Let me make that clear almost all BAD PEOPLE are religous right?;and you hear voices in your head? ...
nickfyoung
busman wrote:
deanhills wrote:
For example if we participate in a very vocal religion where people are talking God every day, then I don't see it as far-fetched that some people have conversations in their head with God and may even dream God is talking to them. I'd say it's pretty normal. And perfectly sane.


I have conversations in my head with Muba Muba, who tells me to be a great person, and when I dream of him he really talks to me. Muba Muba live in the supernatural existenialist confederation but he can answer prayers and intervene.


None of the parts in blue seem a little odd to you? Maybe a little ridiculous, maybe a little insane? I see a ton of similarities in those two concepts and it scares me that its like that sometimes. To do logical things does not make one sane or insane, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is what makes one insane, and the religious do it over and over again. How many people pray for world peace because their son got shot in the chest or bombed? How many people pray for something to eat every night while were all surfing the web? How many people pray for the inhumane abuse's, their suffering to just stop? It is horrible to hold a true belief of which there is no evidence. None for and none against (so far). A religous text is not counted seeing as its from a biased source. I might say that I would be biased too, but there is plenty of people whom aren't like that should be able to study it in a even-minded manner and the evidence doesn't seem to stack for the god argument so much. To have an UNQUESTIONABLE belief that there is someone inside your head talking to you and that you should be willing to legislate hate, pass judgement, propagate bigotry and then say it's all in the name of faith: It's not a belief that I would hold to my own standerds. I will always move forward in my knowledge and abilities as opposed to KNOWING the truth. I am one measly human being, I don't know s* but what I do know is if the prison polls are any indicators than the majority of bad people are religous. Let me make that clear almost all BAD PEOPLE are religous right?;and you hear voices in your head? ...



I am sure glad that I am not religious. It certainly sounds something strange. I suppose when you think of it there are lots of religious people belonging to all different sorts of religion. Glad I am not like them.
busman
nickfyoung wrote:
I am sure glad that I am not religious. It certainly sounds something strange. I suppose when you think of it there are lots of religious people belonging to all different sorts of religion. Glad I am not like them.


Are you a deist then?
lucascoelho
Thanks for your testimony! We do need to keep faith, on every moment, wherever we are, whatever we are doing!

Faith is believing, trusting, but also being trustworthy!

Faith is also putting your love and caring to practice, as you said!

God told us: do your part and I'll help you with mine. So be it! I believe we all can do that, and things get much simpler and easier, because we trust God but also know we have responsibility to ourselves!

May the Lord bless yall!
nickfyoung
busman wrote:
nickfyoung wrote:
I am sure glad that I am not religious. It certainly sounds something strange. I suppose when you think of it there are lots of religious people belonging to all different sorts of religion. Glad I am not like them.


Are you a deist then?


I would be a theist although that is a 17th century term. I classify myself as a Christian but certainly not religious. While Christianity is recognised as a religion and there are many religious adherents and many Christian organisations and churches who practise religion under the umbrella of Christianity, I am not one of them.

The teachings of Jesus and Paul drew followers from other religions and they fellow shipped together worshipping, mostly in houses. This was a daily occurrence as the ate together and pooled assets.

Later it was organized into a formal 'religion' and called Christianity and church government set up and many more were converted and eventually it was corrupted.

One can still be a follower without being 'religious' or being part of organized religion. Theism is from the Greek theos or God. True Christianity is just you and your God, a relationship. Nothing religious about it.
Ankhanu
nickfyoung wrote:
I would be a theist although that is a 17th century term.

Does this mean you disregard any words that originated more than a couple centuries ago?
Good-bye, duck! No longer shall fowl of the water be shackled with an outdated name. From now on, ye shall be known as drump!

How exactly does your definition of Christian not fall under the purview of theist?
nickfyoung
Ankhanu wrote:
nickfyoung wrote:
I would be a theist although that is a 17th century term.

Does this mean you disregard any words that originated more than a couple centuries ago?
Good-bye, duck! No longer shall fowl of the water be shackled with an outdated name. From now on, ye shall be known as drump!

How exactly does your definition of Christian not fall under the purview of theist?


I suppose monotheist would be more accurate a word. All I was saying above is that the term was not necessary until it was necessary to distinguish it from deism which was emerging at that time.

So monotheism is my Christianity, a God who is personal, present and active, not necessarily stuck in a church.
Ankhanu
I see.

The point is that theist is the top tier of your heirarchy, the broadest set to which your beliefs belong, your version of Christianity is at the bottom, the most specific. Simplified, it looks like this:

Theism
--- Monotheism
------ Christianity
-------- Catholicism
----------- Protestantism
--------------- Anglicanism
--------------- The specific Protestant version of Christianity you follow, but I forget at the moment
------------------- The nickfyoung version of that
--- Polytheism
------ Specific polytheistic religions
----------- Et cetera

Deism falls in there in multiple locations below the Theism umbrella, though generally it falls at a tier under Monotheism, often below Christianity, but it could be at any level, depending on personal decisions/beliefs of the deist involved.

Someone who belongs to a specific subset, by default, belongs to its parent sets. As such, being a specific Christian nominally makes you a theist in the most general sense. It's pretty analogous to taxonomy.
nickfyoung
Ankhanu wrote:
I see.

The point is that theist is the top tier of your heirarchy, the broadest set to which your beliefs belong, your version of Christianity is at the bottom, the most specific. Simplified, it looks like this:

Theism
--- Monotheism
------ Christianity
-------- Catholicism
----------- Protestantism
--------------- Anglicanism
--------------- The specific Protestant version of Christianity you follow, but I forget at the moment
------------------- The nickfyoung version of that
--- Polytheism
------ Specific polytheistic religions
----------- Et cetera

Deism falls in there in multiple locations below the Theism umbrella, though generally it falls at a tier under Monotheism, often below Christianity, but it could be at any level, depending on personal decisions/beliefs of the deist involved.

Someone who belongs to a specific subset, by default, belongs to its parent sets. As such, being a specific Christian nominally makes you a theist in the most general sense. It's pretty analogous to taxonomy.



The end point of it all is that one can be a Christian without being religious.
bijit
The most important thing which is required for a beautiful relation between two human beings..
busman
bijit wrote:
The most important thing which is required for a beautiful relation between two human beings..


Huh?


nickfyoung wrote:
The end point of it all is that one can be a Christian without being religious.


Idk about that. One may reject dogma, but the religious aspect in its most base form is still there, an organised set of principles based on the faith of the supernatural.
nickfyoung
busman wrote:
bijit wrote:
The most important thing which is required for a beautiful relation between two human beings..


Huh?


nickfyoung wrote:
The end point of it all is that one can be a Christian without being religious.


Idk about that. One may reject dogma, but the religious aspect in its most base form is still there, an organised set of principles based on the faith of the supernatural.


When you say organized set of principals it sounds like organized religion, ie, Catholic Church. When a Christian says he is not religious that is usually what he is trying to distance himself from.
ocalhoun
nickfyoung wrote:


The end point of it all is that one can be a Christian without being religious.

I would say that one would only be christian to the degree one is religious.

A completely 100% non-religious person is de-facto, 100% non-christian.
busman
nickfyoung wrote:
When you say organized set of principals it sounds like organized religion, ie, Catholic Church. When a Christian says he is not religious that is usually what he is trying to distance himself from.


Yep that would be rejection of dogma not religion. Christianity even without the dogma involved still has a set of principles which you are supposed to abide by and a belief in the supernatural i.e. religion. @ocalhoun put it very well.
nickfyoung
busman wrote:
nickfyoung wrote:
When you say organized set of principals it sounds like organized religion, ie, Catholic Church. When a Christian says he is not religious that is usually what he is trying to distance himself from.


Yep that would be rejection of dogma not religion. Christianity even without the dogma involved still has a set of principles which you are supposed to abide by and a belief in the supernatural i.e. religion. @ocalhoun put it very well.



Yes, a Christian believes in Gid, the supernatural, and has a set of principals, the Bible.
deanhills
busman wrote:
deanhills wrote:
For example if we participate in a very vocal religion where people are talking God every day, then I don't see it as far-fetched that some people have conversations in their head with God and may even dream God is talking to them. I'd say it's pretty normal. And perfectly sane.


I have conversations in my head with Muba Muba, who tells me to be a great person, and when I dream of him he really talks to me. Muba Muba live in the supernatural existenialist confederation but he can answer prayers and intervene.


None of the parts in blue seem a little odd to you? Maybe a little ridiculous, maybe a little insane? I see a ton of similarities in those two concepts and it scares me that its like that sometimes. To do logical things does not make one sane or insane, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is what makes one insane, and the religious do it over and over again. How many people pray for world peace because their son got shot in the chest or bombed? How many people pray for something to eat every night while were all surfing the web? How many people pray for the inhumane abuse's, their suffering to just stop? It is horrible to hold a true belief of which there is no evidence. None for and none against (so far). A religous text is not counted seeing as its from a biased source. I might say that I would be biased too, but there is plenty of people whom aren't like that should be able to study it in a even-minded manner and the evidence doesn't seem to stack for the god argument so much. To have an UNQUESTIONABLE belief that there is someone inside your head talking to you and that you should be willing to legislate hate, pass judgement, propagate bigotry and then say it's all in the name of faith: It's not a belief that I would hold to my own standerds. I will always move forward in my knowledge and abilities as opposed to KNOWING the truth. I am one measly human being, I don't know s* but what I do know is if the prison polls are any indicators than the majority of bad people are religous. Let me make that clear almost all BAD PEOPLE are religous right?;and you hear voices in your head? ...
Well I can't help get the impression from the above that you've just passed judgment on the religious, who in your opinion (you have not said it literally, but the meaning is clear) are quite stupid? They are doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Bottom line, they are all less intelligent than you are as your intelligence operates on a higher level where science is testing it all of the time. Good for you, and hope that makes you happy! So what's the diffs here between the accuser and the accused? Your head is filled with superior knowledge that is tested by science, where you feel you are equipped to judge the religious as not so bright. So you are as judgmental as you are accusing the religious to be, operating on a different plane?

I agree there are religious that are dogmatic and doing strange things, but I'd say that goes for every group, including atheists. Every group has their percentage of fanatics and crazies. What I find unreasonable though is when a religious/unreligious group is stereotyped by the worst examples of their group.
busman
deanhills wrote:
busman wrote:
deanhills wrote:
For example if we participate in a very vocal religion where people are talking God every day, then I don't see it as far-fetched that some people have conversations in their head with God and may even dream God is talking to them. I'd say it's pretty normal. And perfectly sane.


I have conversations in my head with Muba Muba, who tells me to be a great person, and when I dream of him he really talks to me. Muba Muba live in the supernatural existenialist confederation but he can answer prayers and intervene.


None of the parts in blue seem a little odd to you? Maybe a little ridiculous, maybe a little insane? I see a ton of similarities in those two concepts and it scares me that its like that sometimes. To do logical things does not make one sane or insane, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is what makes one insane, and the religious do it over and over again. How many people pray for world peace because their son got shot in the chest or bombed? How many people pray for something to eat every night while were all surfing the web? How many people pray for the inhumane abuse's, their suffering to just stop? It is horrible to hold a true belief of which there is no evidence. None for and none against (so far). A religous text is not counted seeing as its from a biased source. I might say that I would be biased too, but there is plenty of people whom aren't like that should be able to study it in a even-minded manner and the evidence doesn't seem to stack for the god argument so much. To have an UNQUESTIONABLE belief that there is someone inside your head talking to you and that you should be willing to legislate hate, pass judgement, propagate bigotry and then say it's all in the name of faith: It's not a belief that I would hold to my own standerds. I will always move forward in my knowledge and abilities as opposed to KNOWING the truth. I am one measly human being, I don't know s* but what I do know is if the prison polls are any indicators than the majority of bad people are religous. Let me make that clear almost all BAD PEOPLE are religous right?;and you hear voices in your head? ...
Well I can't help get the impression from the above that you've just passed judgment on the religious, who in your opinion (you have not said it literally, but the meaning is clear) are quite stupid? They are doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Bottom line, they are all less intelligent than you are as your intelligence operates on a higher level where science is testing it all of the time. Good for you, and hope that makes you happy! So what's the diffs here between the accuser and the accused? Your head is filled with superior knowledge that is tested by science, where you feel you are equipped to judge the religious as not so bright. So you are as judgmental as you are accusing the religious to be, operating on a different plane?

I agree there are religious that are dogmatic and doing strange things, but I'd say that goes for every group, including atheists. Every group has their percentage of fanatics and crazies. What I find unreasonable though is when a religious/unreligious group is stereotyped by the worst examples of their group.


Nope all I did was take god out of that sentence and put Muba Muba. Secondly I never called anyone stupid, I said in a tongue in cheek manner (not meant to be taken 100% litteraly in all sincerity) that the behaviors could be classified as insanity. Thirdly all people can do strange things, doing strange things does not equal belief. Fouthly I didn't pass judgement on the people only their behaviors which quite frankly when put into context (which was all I did with the Muba Muba quote) are teetering on the verge of crazy. Last but not least I did quote a fact that most people in prison are religious; my ex was a 2 time felon, let me make it clear I have no qualms with reformed people at all, I dated one (last woman I'll ever date) and she is (albeit jellous) one of the most giving, charitable, helpful and hardworking people I know.

One of my closest friends is a christian Dean and he's one of the smartest guys I know but when it comes to his unwaverable faith he isn't, and ya know why that is? Because he doesn't question anything about it and that is definitly the way to let your brain stagnate. Once you stop questioning you stop learning. I'm NOT here to judge the person, only the behaviors they take part in. Esspecially ones that have no logical rational for doing.

I would have a lot more respect for people if they stopped acting like their religous beliefs have ANY logical side to them (other than an intial spark deist, it's not completely rational or irrational a 'lil in between) and just fess up and say " I believe some gnarly stuff and I know it doesn't make any logical or rational sense" instead of constantly trying to persuade that it is completely logical to hear voices inside your head that have never given you any physical evidence of their being other than a book(s) written in ancient history. A belief in God is JUST AS irrational as a belief in Zues, yet you choose not to believe in Zues. Tell me why?

I accept religion for what it is and I would find it far easier to respect the views of someone who has the cajones to say what it really is and accept that their beliefs don't make any sort of logical sense. I know my posting was harsh @deanhills but it was to prove a point that faith doesn't make any sort of sane or logical sense. Faith IS NOT logical AT ALL. It isn't by the definition of the very word, and here you make a posting saying it's perfectly healthy to be talking to voices inside your head that you have never seen, has never presented physical evidence, has never left any traceable mark on the universe and so on. It is hypocrisy and lunacy to claim that belief is either completely sane or rational. I am truely sorry if I offended but I didn't attack anyone, just a belief system based off of no solid logical grounding. And I would refer you to this thread if you think me a judgemental person http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-138859.html, the part I would be referencing is on page 5.
nickfyoung
Quote:
A belief in God is JUST AS irrational as a belief in Zues, yet you choose not to believe in Zues. Tell me why


Faith is a little more than your understanding of it. Regardless whether you think voices in your head mean you are insane, a believer is only a believer because they have met God. A face to face meeting like that will change you and give you that unwavering faith because now you know.

You know something that you didn't know before and that is something that a non Christian can never understand.

It is not a blind unquestioning faith but a personal relationship. You have met God himself and he continues to meet with you on a daily basis.
Syryus
I think this is the Faith forum, not the debate one. If you want to follow the topic's subject, that actually, as you can see from the first posts, is for people who want to get closer to God, then do it.
If not, next time you flame the topic and start arguments about religion that have no place here, I'll just contact the staff for flaming and off-topic. I know it's not fair that many religious people are happier with their God then you atheists are alone, but deal with it.

Now, I want to get closer to God too this year. Hope it turns out well and can put some order in my life.
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