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Belgium - The country without a government





jonashendrickx
Well you read things daily about Middle Eastern countries having no government. Well Here is a West-European one!

My country is divided into two big parts (actually 3). The Dutch and the French.

Each Dutch party doesn't agree with eachother, then you have the frend not agreeing with eachother. Then bring it together and you have the dutch and the french working against eachother.

And then I wonder how difficult it can be. Do they all think about their pockets? I personally think it should be a job with ambition. Not for money. We talk about leading countries... Which is very important!
deanhills
Ah gee, they still don't have a Government ... darn! Laughing

On the other hand, if they could survive without a Federal Government for this long, just shows how redundant the Federal Government has become. Not to mention the savings of costs both in Federal Government and the cost of elections. Perhaps there is some economic benefits in the "madness" of not having a Federal Government. Cool
jonashendrickx
That's actually true! They are only useful for just a very small part Laughing didn't think that far. And I wonder why we have a king. All he does is being in the hospital. Maybe we should get young healthy presidents instead.

A king is all about a family who is on the top. I don't think democracy is based on that.
standready
jonashendrickx wrote:

Each Dutch party doesn't agree with eachother, then you have the frend not agreeing with eachother. Then bring it together and you have the dutch and the french working against eachother.

And then I wonder how difficult it can be. Do they all think about their pockets? I personally think it should be a job with ambition. Not for money. We talk about leading countries... Which is very important!

Substitute 'Publican for one side and Democrap for the other and I would have thought you were talking about the United States!
ocalhoun
deanhills wrote:
On the other hand, if they could survive without a Federal Government for this long, just shows how redundant the Federal Government has become. Not to mention the savings of costs both in Federal Government and the cost of elections. Perhaps there is some economic benefits in the "madness" of not having a Federal Government.


For the win!
menino
deanhills wrote:

On the other hand, if they could survive without a Federal Government for this long, just shows how redundant the Federal Government has become. Not to mention the savings of costs both in Federal Government and the cost of elections. Perhaps there is some economic benefits in the "madness" of not having a Federal Government. Cool


In the Middle East, especially Kuwait, if the government is not in place, then progress takes a long time, because new projects require approval from the goverment, so, I think that there is an economic drawback in this case.
I think Belgium is economically stable compared to other countries, despite the fact that they do not have a goverment, but there must be a governing body, to take care of the day to day activities, policies and procedures, otherwise the country would be in the dark ages.
deanhills
menino wrote:
deanhills wrote:

On the other hand, if they could survive without a Federal Government for this long, just shows how redundant the Federal Government has become. Not to mention the savings of costs both in Federal Government and the cost of elections. Perhaps there is some economic benefits in the "madness" of not having a Federal Government. Cool


In the Middle East, especially Kuwait, if the government is not in place, then progress takes a long time, because new projects require approval from the goverment, so, I think that there is an economic drawback in this case.
I think Belgium is economically stable compared to other countries, despite the fact that they do not have a goverment, but there must be a governing body, to take care of the day to day activities, policies and procedures, otherwise the country would be in the dark ages.
Bondings explained in a previous thread that Belgium still has its local Governments to take care of everything. So who knows, maybe it does not really need a Federal Government.
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vp-1033212.html#1033212
ocalhoun
menino wrote:
but there must be a governing body, [...] otherwise the country would be in the dark ages.

Why do people equate lack of government to the dark ages?

The dark ages had plenty of government.
menino
ocalhoun wrote:
menino wrote:
but there must be a governing body, [...] otherwise the country would be in the dark ages.

Why do people equate lack of government to the dark ages?

The dark ages had plenty of government.


lol ocalhoun. My perception of the dark ages was mayhem and chaos, with a corrupt government, which I thought would be the case with no government in place.
menino
[quote="deanhills"]
Quote:
Bondings explained in a previous thread that Belgium still has its local Governments to take care of everything. So who knows, maybe it does not really need a Federal Government.
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vp-1033212.html#1033212


Ok, that explains it. Just new stuff is not allowed, but day to day activities are. Still, I think its probably better than some other countries, like Somalia, for instance, which is still going through political, economic and humanitarian turmoil.
deanhills
menino wrote:
Ok, that explains it. Just new stuff is not allowed, but day to day activities are. Still, I think its probably better than some other countries, like Somalia, for instance, which is still going through political, economic and humanitarian turmoil.
Agreed. Quite a number of countries both in Africa and the Middle East are more tribal than homogeneous. Meaning that the tribes have their own identities and are rivals. Libya is tribal more than it is homogeneous. Hmmm .... I was just thinking of Belgium along the lines of homogeneous. But then not sure how one makes allowance for French and Dutch. Maybe one can refer to the culture as bi-lingually homogeneous?
ocalhoun
menino wrote:
with a corrupt government, which I thought would be the case with no government in place.

How can the government be corrupt if there is no government?
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
menino wrote:
with a corrupt government, which I thought would be the case with no government in place.

How can the government be corrupt if there is no government?
As far as we have learned from Bondings there technically still is a Government - the "resigned" Government - taking care of things at the Federal level. They will only leave once a new Government has been elected.

Refer his post:
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vp-1033212.html#1033212
Quote:
We still have our local governments (there are a lot of them) and at the federal level there is the previous/"resigning" government taking care of everything except new initiatives (which they aren't allowed to).
SonLight
With no kind of government at all, there will be a power vacuum and some group will fill it to prevent total chaos. Often the term "warlords" is appropriate for the result when armed thugs are able to organize. Alternatives are street gangs or roaming bands of criminals, who probably don't care much what people think of them.

In Belgium's case, apparently there is some sort of caretaker government at the federal level and functioning local governments, so there is inconvenience but not (yet) a lot of incentive for hooligans or mobs to try to take control of keeping the streets safe.

I wonder how well the United States could function without a central government. Legally each state is sovereign, but with certain rights given up by our constitution to the feds. Surely the States would eventually get in trouble if there were no one to arbitrate disputes between them, which is basically why they agreed to the Constitution in the first place. Most Americans today think we could use a Federal government with a lot less power, though.
menino
ocalhoun wrote:
menino wrote:
with a corrupt government, which I thought would be the case with no government in place.

How can the government be corrupt if there is no government?


What I meant was that in the dark ages, even with a corrupt government, there was chaos; so if there was no government (at any point of time), there would be even more chaos. Shocked

Belgium seems to be doing well on its own to hold its own laws and country, to be honest.

India for example, around a decade ago, when the country's parliament had dissolved, there were economic problems and chaos, not like the dark ages, but enough to put everyone at unease. This is what I meant. Sayign it was the dark ages was a figure of speech.
Coen
SonLight wrote:
In Belgium's case, apparently there is some sort of caretaker government at the federal level and functioning local governments, so there is inconvenience but not (yet) a lot of incentive for hooligans or mobs to try to take control of keeping the streets safe.

It was my understanding too that Belgium has a lot of lower governments, mostly working on local but also on a somewhat higher level and these are still intact and are able to maintain order. I think you should also take into account that this is not the first time Belgium has had difficulties establishing a government after elections. Although they did break records this time, the country has some, euhm, expertise with being without a government for a while which may also explain why they manage that well.
Bondings
We now have a federal government in Belgium.

@SonLight, with "no government" it was actually meant no new government after the elections. The previous government was still in charge until the next one was formed. The only restrictions were that they were not allowed to do anything new - only go with the current affairs and keep the same policies as before the elections. It's not chaos at all - simply no new laws/policies during that time.
deanhills
Bondings wrote:
We now have a federal government in Belgium.
Great news, thanks for the info! I should have done this a long time ago Embarassed Googled it and it's actually fantastic that it took almost 18 months for a Government to be formed after the election. In June the record matched that of the Cambodia Government in 2003-2004.
Quote:
Following the Belgian general election held on 13 June 2010, a process of cabinet formation started in Belgium. The election produced a very fragmented political landscape, with 11 parties elected to the Chamber of Representatives, none of which have more than 20% of the seats. The separatist New Flemish Alliance (N-VA), the largest party in Flanders and the country as a whole, controls 27 of 150 seats in the lower chamber. The Francophone Socialist Party (PS), the largest in Wallonia, controls 26 seats. Cabinet negotiations continued for a long time. On 1 June 2011, Belgium matched the record for time taken to form a new democratic government after an election, at 353 days, held until then by Cambodia in 20032004. On 11 October 2011, the final agreement for institutional reform was presented to the media.

A government coalition was named on 5 December 2011 and sworn in after a total of 541 days of negotiations and formation on 6 December 2011, with Elio Di Rupo named Prime Minister of the Di Rupo I Government.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932011_Belgian_government_formation
menino
Congrats to Belgium and Belgians. Very Happy
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