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Japan on the way to build largest collider





splintercdo
Guys, what are your thoughts on this one?

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/20111215_30.html

I don't want to be pretentious, and I am fully supporting technological advancements and hope that the project will help Japan's economy, but Japan had horrific events this year and while still not being fully recovered from earthquake, tsunami, and Fukushima.

They are going with this bold plan. Building device that has to be so perfectly built and doing this in a land where earthquakes happens like a rain in some other countries, while expected finish date is only 2020!

Possibly it may organize people's mindset and put one distinct target in front of them, which can be good thing Confused
Bikerman
cannot access page...
kelseymh
Bikerman wrote:
cannot access page...


Bikerman, apparently the Japanese government has formally expressed interest in being the host country for the ILC. The link originally posted is also showing up in Google searches, and is equally inaccessible.

There's a comment from Barry Barish, head of the ILC effort, on the ILC's Web site.
Bikerman
I'm thinking that a volcanic/earthquake zone might not be best for a large particle accelerator....is that me simply being naive about the physics? I'm picturing trying to line up a beam of particles during a small quake (of which there are, I believe, plenty).....
kelseymh
Bikerman wrote:
I'm thinking that a volcanic/earthquake zone might not be best for a large particle accelerator....is that me simply being naive about the physics?


Well, SLAC is built in a well-known earthquake zone, indeed, quite close to several major active faults :-/ The key is to have good geologists involved in the site selection and engineering. The entire SLAC accelerator was built onto a single formation to avoid damage due to faulting.

Quote:
I'm picturing trying to line up a beam of particles during a small quake (of which there are, I believe, plenty).....


It depends on the magnitude of the earthquakes and the sensitivity of the instrument. If you look at LIGO, they are sensitive to trucks going by on the highway, let alone earthquakes!

The full 4 km beamline at SLAC was built in short (~5 m) segments with flexible bellows between them, and with both focussing and steering magnets to maintain alignment.

With large earthquakes, the beam of course is automatically dumped to avoid damage to the beampipe.
Bikerman
That makes sense. It does seem, however, that sighting it in Japan would be a strange choice. Looking at the volcanic data on the Jap Gov site, I see the following M2 or above quakes over the last week or so:
Date/time.....................................Region..............................Magnitude
11:06 JST 21 Dec 2011.............Iwate-ken Oki.............................M4.6
18:10 JST 20 Dec 2011.............Ibaraki-ken Hokubu.....................M3.3
15:26 JST 20 Dec 2011.............Iwate-ken Oki.............................M5.0
10:35 JST 20 Dec 2011.............Akita-ken Nairiku-nambu..............M2.6
23:40 JST 19 Dec 2011.............Ibaraki-ken Hokubu.....................M4.1
16:01 JST 19 Dec 2011.............Chiba-ken Toho-oki.....................M4.6
05:36 JST 19 Dec 2011.............Ishikawa-ken Noto-chiho..............M4.1
18:02 JST 18 Dec 2011.............Chiba-ken Toho-oki.....................M4.8
17:50 JST 17 Dec 2011.............Noto-hanto Oki............................M4.3
15:12 JST 16 Dec 2011.............Tochigi-ken Nambu......................M4.3
07:45 JST 15 Dec 2011.............Ibaraki-ken Oki...........................M4.3



Japan sits between 4 major plates - it would surely not be a great choice unless there were some outstanding offsetting advantages methinks.....?
splintercdo
Yes, that is interesting, when I found out about these news, I was able to find quite a lot news sources where it was possible to read about Japan's plans to build largest hadron collider until the year 2020 it should had to be straight not round like the one in Europe and should had to be 30 km long(length of LHC is 27 km), thus making it largest hadron collider in the world!
kelseymh
splintercdo wrote:
Yes, that is interesting, when I found out about these news, I was able to find quite a lot news sources where it was possible to read about Japan's plans to build largest hadron collider until the year 2020 it should had to be straight not round like the one in Europe and should had to be 30 km long(length of LHC is 27 km), thus making it largest hadron collider in the world!


The International Linear Collider (ILC) will be an electron-positron collider, not a hadron collider. It has to be straight because electrons radiate far too much energy to be kept going in circles at the 500 GeV energy of the ILC.
splintercdo
Quote:
The International Linear Collider (ILC) will be an electron-positron collider, not a hadron collider. It has to be straight because electrons radiate far too much energy to be kept going in circles at the 500 GeV energy of the ILC.


Thanks for correction, when I was writing down previous post, was in doubt if I am calling device correctly!

But it's strange that they took off all the articles. Confused
strdb
I'm not sure if that makes sense.
Such large projects are IMO better to be done as "world projects" rather than a single-nation project.
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