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Brits opt out of EU Fiscal Deal





deanhills
I like it when someone has the courage of his convictions to take a stand. Looks as though the Brits have opted out of the latest EU fiscal deal and I take my hat off for them doing that. I agree, the EU type management of economies has become much too intrusive of individual economies.

What do you think of the Brits' stand in this?

Here's a URL of an article on it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16115373
watersoul
deanhills wrote:
I like it when someone has the courage of his convictions to take a stand. Looks as though the Brits have opted out of the latest EU fiscal deal and I take my hat off for them doing that. I agree, the EU type management of economies has become much too intrusive of individual economies.

What do you think of the Brits' stand in this?

Here's a URL of an article on it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16115373


To be fair, it's less about courage and more that our government hasn't much choice but to reject anything which might transfer further powers from the UK to Europe.
The coalition in power here is formed from two political parties, the junior partner being pro Europe, and the other traditionally pro sovereign state, this partnership will be endangered if a referendum is required for any major changes, hence the rejection of the current proposals.

Another issue is that the UK never joined the € Euro so a lot of the discussions have pretty much nothing of interest to us. Using our own currency we are free to set our own interest rates, taxes etc in ways which benefit our own economy.
The Eurozone countries however are unable to carry on the way they have, using the same currency without their own European Central Bank having full control over the finer fiscal details of each economy. Greece has historically struggled to raise taxes for example, and Ireland has had extremely low business rates to attract inward investment.
Basically, if the Eurozone countries want to keep a single currency then they will have to go down the road of common fiscal policy or the Euro will struggle to survive. That said, any country wishing to stay in the single currency will have to accept more intrusive management of the individual economies.

The UK on the other hand is not tied to the same restrictions so will reject any proposal which would restrict our economy in any way.
As I mentioned, any major EU treaty changes will have to be agreed in a referendum now, so it is unlikely any government here will agree to anything which they pretty much know would be voted against by the majority - myself included.

It will be interesting to see what Italy, Greece, Ireland and Spains reaction is as they have more to lose than anyone else with their struggling economies which depend on France and Germany far more than the UK does.
deanhills
watersoul wrote:
The UK on the other hand is not tied to the same restrictions so will reject any proposal which would restrict our economy in any way.
As I mentioned, any major EU treaty changes will have to be agreed in a referendum now, so it is unlikely any government here will agree to anything which they pretty much know would be voted against by the majority - myself included.

It will be interesting to see what Italy, Greece, Ireland and Spains reaction is as they have more to lose than anyone else with their struggling economies which depend on France and Germany far more than the UK does.
Agreed. I'd think however their involvement with the EU started off with dreams of getting more jobs for their people and opportunities for creating wealth. Once they started to go into debt as a result of their involvement with the EU, they seem to be under an obligation to stay with the EU or completely default on the debt. Like South America had to do during the nineties.
watersoul
I'd imagine all the various countries involvement with the EU started from dreams of getting more jobs for their people and opportunities for creating wealth.
The main difference I see with the UK is that opinion here is drawn mainly towards the single free market import/export tariffs, freedom of movement and freedom to work or trade in the EU area.
This is of course useful to national economies, but the transfer of more legislative power to Europe is something most people here would resist.

There has only been one referendum in the UK regarding EU membership and that was in 1975.
I, along with many millions of other folk have never had the chance to express our views over the last 36 years, yet more powers have been transferred in that time.
It is no surprise that the Prime Minister rejected the current proposals, anything else would have been politically damaging for him while it appears that the majority of voters in this country would reject the proposal if asked.
The UK is a net contributor to the EU and many people wonder what we actually get back for the money we pay, apart from the freedom to live and trade anywhere in Europe. If our government signed up to anything without asking the people first, I could easily imagine a couple of generations of new voters protesting against this - and more worryingly for the government, this cuts through the entire socio-economic spectrum, with 'classic' middle income voters being at the forefront.

The strong attitude in Britain is that we're happy to trade equally with our European friends, but why should we pay more money to help the ones who mismanaged their economies and a currency we do not use.
Of course there are strong reasons why we wouldn't want a bankrupt Eurozone, but being tied up in the newly agreed common fiscal policy is certainly something which could be damaging to the UK...and something which is probably better to be avoided.
gandalfthegrey
They are protecting themselves and their economy by not participating.
deanhills
watersoul wrote:
but the transfer of more legislative power to Europe is something most people here would resist.
I'm happy to hear that. London has also been an international financial hub for a very long while. So I'd imagine they would want to be protective of that position as well. I'm happy they are.

watersoul wrote:
The UK is a net contributor to the EU and many people wonder what we actually get back for the money we pay, apart from the freedom to live and trade anywhere in Europe. If our government signed up to anything without asking the people first, I could easily imagine a couple of generations of new voters protesting against this - and more worryingly for the government, this cuts through the entire socio-economic spectrum, with 'classic' middle income voters being at the forefront.
I also wonder what the UK is getting in return, perhaps only some goodwill maybe? Expensive goodwill.

watersoul wrote:
The strong attitude in Britain is that we're happy to trade equally with our European friends, but why should we pay more money to help the ones who mismanaged their economies and a currency we do not use.
I'm happy to hear that. I don't have much money, but what I have is in the UK. A stong morale in the UK can only be good for the Pound Sterling.
watersoul
deanhills wrote:
A stong morale in the UK can only be good for the Pound Sterling.
A strong national control over Sterling can only be good for the UK and its investors.
'The City' also makes a fortune for the UK as well, so like it or not, we can do without new EU legislation which could drive investment away.

deanhills wrote:
I don't have much money, but what I have is in the UK.
Then it would appear that we have similar interests in the UK economy.
Maybe you should have a look into buying even just a few acres of greenbelt land at the outskirts of urban areas here.
Our ever growing population is continually creeping into the countryside because we're surrounded by the sea...and property/land prices have been increasing faster than wages for many years now Wink
deanhills
watersoul wrote:
deanhills wrote:
A stong morale in the UK can only be good for the Pound Sterling.
A strong national control over Sterling can only be good for the UK and its investors.
'The City' also makes a fortune for the UK as well, so like it or not, we can do without new EU legislation which could drive investment away.
I'll vote for that!

watersoul wrote:
deanhills wrote:
I don't have much money, but what I have is in the UK.
Then it would appear that we have similar interests in the UK economy.
Maybe you should have a look into buying even just a few acres of greenbelt land at the outskirts of urban areas here.
Our ever growing population is continually creeping into the countryside because we're surrounded by the sea...and property/land prices have been increasing faster than wages for many years now Wink
Maybe I should make that my goal for 2012. Thanks for the tip. Very Happy
augustinelund
According to this video and article:

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27483

the “European Stability Mechanism (ESM)” is leading to “Economic Dictatorship”. I got really scared watching it. I am also very happy that the UK said no. It seems like they wanted the countries to sign a blank paper and all 26 countries where prepared to sign it, if it weren't for the UK. They want the other countries, although they do not got the euro, to be part of this pact. I hope they do not do this. It will help the crises to spread to even more countries.
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