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Asia Bibi, death for blasphemy





liljp617
I'm not incredibly informed on this issue as I write this, so maybe someone can clear up any misunderstandings. Pre-apologies for any mistakes. I'm sure some of you know of this story since it's been going on for a couple years.

The case is one of Asia Bibi who, according to Wikipedia:

Quote:
Asia Noreen (Urdu: آسیہ نو رین,[1] better known as Asia (also spelled Aasiya)[2] Bibi, Urdu: آسیہ بی بی, born c. 1971) is a Pakistani Christian woman who was convicted by a Pakistani court of blasphemy, receiving a sentence of death by hanging. The verdict, which would need to be upheld by a superior court, has received worldwide attention. If executed, Noreen would be the first woman in Pakistan to be lawfully killed for blasphemy. Christian minister Shahbaz Bhatti and Pakistani government politician Salmaan Taseer were both assassinated for opposing the blasphemy laws.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Bibi


Regardless of religious affiliation or lack thereof, there is a petition available at this link: http://www.callformercy.com/

Awareness is needed, because this is absolutely ludicrous.
Nameless
Quote:
In November 2010 Muhammed Naveed Iqbal, judge at the court of Sheikhupura, Punjab, sentenced her to death by hanging.[3] Additionally, a fine of an equivalent of $1,100 was imposed.[8]

Is it wrong that I find this morbidly hilarious?

OT: Yes, *bleep* blasphemy laws and *bleep* all relevant religious figures they are used to ... protect? I'm not really sure on this point.
ocalhoun
Nameless wrote:

OT: Yes, *bleep* blasphemy laws and *bleep* all relevant religious figures they are used to ... protect? I'm not really sure on this point.


Quite so.
*resolves to never visit any country with such laws*
(Because, let's face it, I say a lot of blasphemous things, and I don't want to end up like that unfortunate lady!)
paul_indo
Sharia law for all
Coming to your country soon.

You'll just love it.
ocalhoun
paul_indo wrote:
Sharia law for all
Coming to your country soon.


A- Not likely. Would require significant (and unpopular) changes to the constitution.

B- If it did, I'd judge that the time for revolution* had come, and become a 'terrorist'** myself.



* Anarchist movements tend to do very well within oppressive regimes, particularly when the population still remembers times of greater freedom.
** AKA 'freedom fighter'
AsadAnsari
Removed flame/insulting/threatening comment - ocalhoun
menino
It is sad that someone has to die for blasphemy.
A lot of blaspheming against Christianity goes on in Europe and Western countries, because of freedom of speech, and I don't think that the vatican even minds it (much, I woul;d guess).
But in Islamic countries, saying anything against the ruling party of that country, or Allah, the Quran or Prophet Mohammed can stir up quite an angry reaction.
Christians are usually tolerated in the Islamic world, because of their references in the Quran, but only upto a certain extent.

In any case, I don't think the Muslims themselves are allowed to blaspheme, i.e. they will also be punished.
But with my conversations with some of my Pakistani friends, they say that Christians are protected by the governement, in that they have their own protected localities, but outside of it, they are vulnerable, because some of the fanatical muslims believe that everyone should become muslim and try to get them to change their religion / faith.
coolclay
Wow, that's absolutely absolutely horrific. The saddest part I have to add is that people have been killed for less in countries under Sharia law. Like the women that get raped and then are stoned to death, or thrown in jail for the rest of there lives. And it's not just Pakistan.

The worst part is that these are law's created by man, very little in the Qur’ân actually supports the majority of Sharia law.
AsadAnsari
coolclay wrote:
Wow, that's absolutely absolutely horrific. The saddest part I have to add is that people have been killed for less in countries under Sharia law. Like the women that get raped and then are stoned to death, or thrown in jail for the rest of there lives. And it's not just Pakistan.

The worst part is that these are law's created by man, very little in the Qur’ân actually supports the majority of Sharia law.



Well this is a worst concept you have heard from someone .. no one get stoned if she is raped.. its not justice for the women who is already a victim.

Government even don't allow it if a women get caught if she is with anyone. they just charge few month sentence only.
but its in few tribal system .. i have already answered on this question in literature.
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-128923.html

Knowing is better then Annoying..
Quote:
The Quran is the Book which confirms what was in the bible (the bible we get to read today is heavily altered and that is why there are so much contradictions)
ocalhoun

I've removed a flame comment by AsadAnsari -- and several replies to it.
Please don't reply to posts like that; just report them, thank you.
paul_indo
menino wrote:

In any case, I don't think the Muslims themselves are allowed to blaspheme, i.e. they will also be punished.


That's only if they blaspheme against islam they constantly blaspheme against other religions and in fact the koran could be considered blasphemy as it say's Jesus is not the son of God and that Jews are pigs and monkeys. Although the last one is bigotry I guess, not blasphemy.
Hello_World
One wonders how Islam can maintain that it is a religion of peace and at the same time maintain a contradictory stance by forcing itself onto others.

Terrorism and oil aside, if this religion cannot live with others, it is by nature in a constant state of war.

Of course all Muslim people are different, here I am talking about Muslims who would support this. My Muslim neighbour came over the other day and had a beer with us. They are not all the same.

And I concur with oculhoun, Sharia Law is not something that people with our value system can abide by. Either it will never happen or will be a time of massive rebellion.
deanhills
Nameless wrote:
Quote:
In November 2010 Muhammed Naveed Iqbal, judge at the court of Sheikhupura, Punjab, sentenced her to death by hanging.[3] Additionally, a fine of an equivalent of $1,100 was imposed.[8]

Is it wrong that I find this morbidly hilarious?

OT: Yes, *bleep* blasphemy laws and *bleep* all relevant religious figures they are used to ... protect? I'm not really sure on this point.

I couldn't help but laugh as well about the fine, however of course we are from an individualistic society in the West, whilst people in the Middle East are always associated with family as a whole. So the family would probably have to contribute the 1,100 dollars.
coolclay
Quote:
no one get stoned if she is raped.. its not justice for the women who is already a victim
Of course it's not justice, but it still happens nonetheless under some types of Sharia law.

Quote:
One wonders how Islam can maintain that it is a religion of peace and at the same time maintain a contradictory stance by forcing itself onto others


I think it's because just like some mutated forms of Christianity, you have mutated forms of Islam. Anytime a belief system takes it upon itself to force it down others throats unwillingly, be it in the form of torture (Spanish Inquisition), the form of government (Sharia law) or the form of hatred (Westboro Baptist Church) then I believe it is no longer a true representation of that religion.
paul_indo
coolclay, are you saying that Sharia law is not a true representation if islam?

That seems strange as Sharia is the accepted legal system of islam since the time of Mohammad.

Islam is not only a "religion" but a total way of life and as the muslims love to point out it addresses every area of life, including politics and law.
deanhills
paul_indo wrote:
coolclay, are you saying that Sharia law is not a true representation if islam?

That seems strange as Sharia is the accepted legal system of islam since the time of Mohammad.

Islam is not only a "religion" but a total way of life and as the muslims love to point out it addresses every area of life, including politics and law.
I was just about to write something like that, except did not have enough knowledge to do that. I agree with you on this one. The only variance could be that you get your very militant variety along El Qaeda lines. How does Sharia Law justify what they are doing?
liljp617
coolclay wrote:
Quote:
no one get stoned if she is raped.. its not justice for the women who is already a victim
Of course it's not justice, but it still happens nonetheless under some types of Sharia law.

Quote:
One wonders how Islam can maintain that it is a religion of peace and at the same time maintain a contradictory stance by forcing itself onto others


I think it's because just like some mutated forms of Christianity, you have mutated forms of Islam. Anytime a belief system takes it upon itself to force it down others throats unwillingly, be it in the form of torture (Spanish Inquisition), the form of government (Sharia law) or the form of hatred (Westboro Baptist Church) then I believe it is no longer a true representation of that religion.


That's very convenient for religion "/
paul_indo
deanhills wrote:
How does Sharia Law justify what they are doing?


Pakistan has a mandatory death penalty for blasphemy

These states that have the death penalty for apostasy: Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Sudan.

This is sharia law as enforced in these countries. Some are not so strict with cutting off a thief's hand or stoning adulterers but it is still a pretty much mainstream interpretation of sharia in the islamic world.
As you have probably noticed many in the west also feel it would be better if we implemented sharia.

The texts these come from are often debated in the west but rarely within the islamic world.

For example:
Quote:
“Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.” — Bukhari 9.84.57


Some say it means someone who changes the teaching and belief about islam but throughout history it has often been used against muslim apostates.

Either way it still says KILL HIM, they don't argue that so it's hardly good news and the Ahmadiyah are in big trouble.

Quote:
“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;” [Surah Al-Maidah 5:33]

In Islam, a person who has committed blasphemy can either be killed or crucified, or his opposite hands and feet can be cut off, or he can be exiled from that land.

This is a fairly standard interpretation of this passage as blasphemy is considered to be fighting against islam although in the west you may hear it argued, not often in the islamic world.
AsadAnsari
What would you do if anyone say against the one who died for your sake ?
I am sure you should defend him..
Same thing we do ..
Have you ever heard any blasphemy from any Muslim against Jesus ?
I think you didn't because we are never being taught to do it..
That means we are less violent then who do blasphemy ..

Agree with Paul

If any Muslim do blasphemy he should be hanged even if he say any thing against or wrong about EISA/JESUS.
EISA is our Prophet and we respect him as much as Muhammad as much as Ibraham.
He didn't just dies for truth and the people between he lived but also for the whole humanity..

This is to stop Blasphemy against Islam.. no one will dare to do it and no one will get hanged.
AsadAnsari
To Hello_World
Quote:
One wonders how Islam can maintain that it is a religion of peace


Islam Doesn't need to maintain it self .. it is People who need to maintain ISLAM(Peace) in their life.

Islam didn't spread by slavery.
it announced to free the slave and finish the slavery.

But if we see other side the slavery have given much extra ordinary push to Christianity..

If Christians are now have greater population value in world then it does not prove that it is a bigger religion then Islam..
They conquered (snatched) the Land which is today called America because they have one thing which can kill from a long distance ..
The African were brought like as slaves and they were treated very badly before 50's they were not considered human .. they were forced to accept Christianity .. but Africans were the first Muslims in American state (if its not true that there were an eight hundred year old Masjid (Mosque) before the America was discovered.
Because very after the Quran Completes it was vastly spread and even in china it stepped.
Allah ordered to spread it every where.
deanhills
AsadAnsari wrote:
What would you do if anyone say against the one who died for your sake ?
I am sure you should defend him..
Same thing we do ..
Have you ever heard any blasphemy from any Muslim against Jesus ?
I think you didn't because we are never being taught to do it..
That means we are less violent then who do blasphemy ..

Agree with Paul

If any Muslim do blasphemy he should be hanged even if he say any thing against or wrong about EISA/JESUS.
EISA is our Prophet and we respect him as much as Muhammad as much as Ibraham.
He didn't just dies for truth and the people between he lived but also for the whole humanity..

This is to stop Blasphemy against Islam.. no one will dare to do it and no one will get hanged.
While I totally get this AsadAnsari, this goes two ways as there are probably as many Muslims who blaspheme against Christians and call their women awful names as there are Christians "blaspheming" Muslims. I'm really sorry if you have ever been on the receiving end of name calling or blaspheming, but I would argue the same way as you, that is not supposed to be the Christian way either. People really do awful things to one another period. I wish that could stop.
truespeed
AsadAnsari wrote:

This is to stop Blasphemy against Islam.. no one will dare to do it and no one will get hanged.


But if they do dare they do get hanged.
coolclay
@ Truespeed Laughing but not really
paul_indo
AsadAnsari wrote:
Have you ever heard any blasphemy from any Muslim against Jesus ?
I think you didn't because we are never being taught to do it..
That means we are less violent then who do blasphemy ..


Quran 4:156-159
Quote:
"That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them."


This is blasphemy against christian beliefs so yes I have heard blasphemy from muslim against jesus, mohammad blasphemed jesus.

AsadAnsari wrote:
Islam didn't spread by slavery.
it announced to free the slave and finish the slavery.


Slavery was accepted by nearly every civilisation untill the last century or so. It was the christian west that lead to abolish it although the bible does not speciffically speak against it and actually islam still accepts slavery as gods will.

Quran
Quote:
33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty."
Hello_World
@AsadAnsari

My question is really this:

How can Muslims say that Islam is the "religion of peace" when by its nature it is at war?

I say it is at war by nature because you do not allow people to choose any other lifestyle than Islamic.

If you do not allow any other lifestyle, you are at war with those people who do choose other lifestyles.

I use the word 'war' because Islam kills people who won't comply, and there will always be people who won't comply.

So how does peace come into that?

Hanging people for blasphemy is incredibly violent, to the utmost extreme, because not only is it violent to the person who 'blasphemed' but also because it forces everyone who is not Muslim to silence and to defend themselves also. Not peace.
paul_indo
I think you're right Hello_World.

Islam is not the religion of peace, it is the religion of submission, islam means submission to allah, and they will not rest untill the world submits.

This of course will never happen so a lot of strife and bloodshed are not far down the road.
paul_indo
Hang on? I just pushed the "submit" button, does that mean I submit?

Hell No. Never.
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