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"Dear Canadian Citizen, you owe US taxes."





quex
That would be the US, by the way... as in the United States of America. The IRS, America's dreaded tax authority, is coming after the tax-compliant citizens of Canada for back-taxes (and accrued penalties) built up since said individuals gave up their US citizenship as far back as 1979... maybe even before. Many of these US-born Canadians left the United States as children, with no income earned in the US, nor any US bank accounts. And the kicker: it's not a mistake. There is a real, enforceable law (with considerable legal precedent, albeit almost exclusively used against foreign-based money laundering schemes) that allows the US to go after US-born citizens, of any nationality or dual-citizenship, who have failed to report their accounts in foreign countries every year on a US tax return. The penalty can be as high as $10,000 USD for each account. And now, the IRS wants their money.

Seriously, WTH? o_o

We are just begging for Mounties on mooseback to come charging over the border with razor-edged hockey sticks, aren't we.... -_-'
ExMachina
Quote:
We are just begging for Mounties on mooseback to come charging over the border with razor-edged hockey sticks, aren't we.... -_-'


That doesn't sound like something to fear. Razz

But with over 14 trillion dollars in national debt, we have to get that money from somewhere, right? This is clearly the most effective way... Rolling Eyes
gandalfthegrey
Can't they just give up their U.S. citizenship, or is it that once you are born in the U.S., you are a citizen for life?
ocalhoun
gandalfthegrey wrote:
Can't they just give up their U.S. citizenship, or is it that once you are born in the U.S., you are a citizen for life?

Sure you can give up citizenship... but the US is a bit peculiar about collecting taxes from Americans abroad. -- I've heard they're the only country that will charge taxes on income earned, kept, and spent entirely overseas (for citizens).*
I find it not surprising that they are unwilling to relieve anyone of any tax burden ever incurred, no matter what lengths those people go to remove it.
...And as for taxing non-citizens.... How about that 'taxation without representation', eh?


*Say, I (a US citizen) go to Germany for 5 years, working and spending my money there... By US law, I would still owe full income taxes for all those years, even if I never bring any of that money back to the US. (That's in addition to all applicable German taxes, by the way; in that situation I would be forced to pay the taxes of two countries.)
coolclay
Wow that's really crazy, I guess I never even thought about it. My question is how do they know someone even earned money. I doubt your employer in Germany (in your example) would send your pay stubs to the US. It's only illegal if someone knows about it.
handfleisch
ocalhoun wrote:
gandalfthegrey wrote:
Can't they just give up their U.S. citizenship, or is it that once you are born in the U.S., you are a citizen for life?

Sure you can give up citizenship... but the US is a bit peculiar about collecting taxes from Americans abroad. -- I've heard they're the only country that will charge taxes on income earned, kept, and spent entirely overseas (for citizens).*
I find it not surprising that they are unwilling to relieve anyone of any tax burden ever incurred, no matter what lengths those people go to remove it.
...And as for taxing non-citizens.... How about that 'taxation without representation', eh?


*Say, I (a US citizen) go to Germany for 5 years, working and spending my money there... By US law, I would still owe full income taxes for all those years, even if I never bring any of that money back to the US. (That's in addition to all applicable German taxes, by the way; in that situation I would be forced to pay the taxes of two countries.)


This is not true at all. Up to a rather high income level, the US govt does not tax the income of citizens living overseas on the money they make while living there. So for the average American they can live and work abroad and not get taxed twice, by the local govt and the US govt.
Afaceinthematrix
handfleisch wrote:

This is not true at all. Up to a rather high income level, the US govt does not tax the income of citizens living overseas on the money they make while living there. So for the average American they can live and work abroad and not get taxed twice, by the local govt and the US govt.


Wrong. It isn't that hard to fact check. I wasn't sure myself so I decided to spend the thirty seconds necessary to google "does an american get taxed abroad" and the very first page that came up was an official IRS webpage. Here is what they have to say:

Quote:
If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate, and gift tax returns and paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are in the United States or abroad. Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside.


So... The money I would make in Germany is subject to taxes because the U.S. considers worldwide income. However, at least the IRS is "generous" enough to give you an extension.

Quote:
If you reside overseas, or are in the military on duty outside the U.S., you are allowed an automatic 2-month extension to file your return until June 15. However, any tax due must be paid by the original return due date (April 15) to avoid interest charges.


It goes on to give more detail:

Quote:
You must express the amounts you report on your U.S. tax return in U.S. dollars. If you receive all or part of your income or pay some or all of your expenses in foreign currency, you must translate the foreign currency into U.S. dollars. Taxpayers generally use the yearly average exchange rate to report foreign-earned income that was received regularly throughout the year. However, if you had foreign transactions on specific days, you may also use the exchange rates for those days. Exchange rates can be found at www.oanda.com. Yearly average currency exchange rates for most countries can be found at Yearly Average Currency Exchange Rates.


There is a lot more on the page but I assume you know how to navigate a webpage so I won't insult your intelligence. Just remember, if someone is making a claim that you think is false, you should probably still fact check (even if you think you're positive because we all make mistakes) it before opening your mouth.


http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=97324,00.html

That's really the whole point of this... The U.S. will attempt to tax you as some people are finding out. And coolclay has the idea... They probably won't find out. And even if they do, if you're not ever planning on coming back to the U.S. then give them a finger and get on with your business.
handfleisch
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
handfleisch wrote:

This is not true at all. Up to a rather high income level, the US govt does not tax the income of citizens living overseas on the money they make while living there. So for the average American they can live and work abroad and not get taxed twice, by the local govt and the US govt.


Wrong. It isn't that hard to fact check. I wasn't sure myself so I decided to spend the thirty seconds necessary to google "does an american get taxed abroad" and the very first page that came up was an official IRS webpage. Here is what they have to say:
There is a lot more on the page but I assume you know how to navigate a webpage so I won't insult your intelligence. Just remember, if someone is making a claim that you think is false, you should probably still fact check (even if you think you're positive because we all make mistakes) it before opening your mouth.
...

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=97324,00.html

That's really the whole point of this... The U.S. will attempt to tax you as some people are finding out. And coolclay has the idea... They probably won't find out. And even if they do, if you're not ever planning on coming back to the U.S. then give them a finger and get on with your business.


FYI see below, I didn't need to fact check because I have a lot of experience living and working abroad, didn't have to pay US taxes. I don't make claims unless I know they're true
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/ch04.html#en_US_2010_publink100047398
Quote:

Who Qualifies for the Exclusions and the Deduction?

If you meet certain requirements, you may qualify for the foreign earned income and foreign housing exclusions and the foreign housing deduction.

If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude from income up to $91,500 of your foreign earnings. In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts. See Foreign Earned Income Exclusion and Foreign Housing Exclusion and Deduction, later.

You also may be entitled to exclude from income the value of meals and lodging provided to you by your employer. See Exclusion of Meals and Lodging, later.
Requirements

To claim the foreign earned income exclusion, the foreign housing exclusion, or the foreign housing deduction, you must meet all three of the following requirements.

Your tax home must be in a foreign country.

You must have foreign earned income.

You must be one of the following.

A U.S. citizen who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year.

A U.S. resident alien who is a citizen or national of a country with which the United States has an income tax treaty in effect and who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year.

A U.S. citizen or a U.S. resident alien who is physically present in a foreign country or countries for at least 330 full days during any period of 12 consecutive months.
ocalhoun
handfleisch wrote:

FYI see below, I have a lot of experience living and working abroad, didn't have to pay US taxes.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/ch04.html#en_US_2010_publink100047398

Ah, so there are exclusions that I wasn't aware of, and which would probably mean that my hypothetical US citizen in Germany wouldn't have to pay US taxes.
(except perhaps, for part of the first and last years he was in Germany, which would depend on the dates it happened to fall on, and what dates the IRS uses to determine a 'full year')

As far as I know*, though, the US is one of very few countries that even have the possibility of collecting tax on money earned and spent entirely outside its borders.
So, it still doesn't surprise me that they should try to collect taxes from people who have renounced their citizenship.


*Which isn't particularly far; I'm no expert on US tax code**, and even less knowledgeable about other countries' tax laws.
**Who possibly could be, considering the sheer size of it?
cr3ativ3
quex wrote:
That would be the US, by the way... as in the United States of America. The IRS, America's dreaded tax authority, is coming after the tax-compliant citizens of Canada for back-taxes (and accrued penalties) built up since said individuals gave up their US citizenship as far back as 1979... maybe even before. Many of these US-born Canadians left the United States as children, with no income earned in the US, nor any US bank accounts. And the kicker: it's not a mistake. There is a real, enforceable law (with considerable legal precedent, albeit almost exclusively used against foreign-based money laundering schemes) that allows the US to go after US-born citizens, of any nationality or dual-citizenship, who have failed to report their accounts in foreign countries every year on a US tax return. The penalty can be as high as $10,000 USD for each account. And now, the IRS wants their money.

Seriously, WTH? o_o

We are just begging for Mounties on mooseback to come charging over the border with razor-edged hockey sticks, aren't we.... -_-'


Alright so I'm not a U.S. born Canadian citizen, HOWEVER, I am a Canadian Citizen. So here's the deal, first off the U.S. isn't providing those individuals with any services they should be paying taxes for... They can't even legally vote in the U.S.. That being said, living in Canada, we pay a lot more in taxes then you would in the U.S., so believe me no one is evading taxes. Secondly, things in Canada cost a lot more, which hallelujah ends up in the hands of U.S. corporations at the end of the day! So don't give us bullshit about how these citizens are taking from the U.S. economy. If your country would tax the corporations making a shit ton of money of foreign investments like in Canada, then your country would be bringing in more money then you would fining all these innocent citizens 10k a pop.

But hey at the end of the day, if legislators can get money and piss of people that have no say or vote, then do it... Because then you can make more money, without taking a hit. (Sarcasm, but true).
Afaceinthematrix
handfleisch wrote:

FYI see below, I didn't need to fact check because I have a lot of experience living and working abroad, didn't have to pay US taxes. I don't make claims unless I know they're true
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/ch04.html#en_US_2010_publink100047398


Ocalhoun said that America collects taxes from Americans abroad. That is completely 100% true. I proved that. He did not say that they collect taxes from 100% of citizens. That would be incorrect, as you shown. But if he is going to make a broad statement like he did, then you cannot respond with "This is not true at all." That is the first line you said and it is blatantly wrong like I showed you. They do tax people, just not 100% of people. All I was doing was providing the proof that they do tax people and therefore showing you that you were incorrect in your very first statement.

However, I did realize, as posting that there were probably exceptions. There are always exceptions in our tax system because it is very complicated. Quite a few people are trying to simplify the tax system. I did read your second system that mentioned income level. I did realize that income level could quite possibly be an exception and that you could be correct but didn't look into it because I didn't really care. I was mostly responding to your very first line that says "This is not true at all" when it clearly was true in many cases. Ocalhoun said the U.S. will tax Americans abroad and that is true. I proved it.

Furthermore, the U.S. is morally wrong here. They do not have a right to attempt to tax someone living abroad, making money abroad, spending money abroad, and not benefiting from the U.S. simply because they were born here and happen to be citizens. And then they look at income level? Like taxing a wealthy person unethically is any better than taxing someone else unethically? Maybe they just think the wealthy will pay it so that they don't have to fight it? If the IRS could get away with rape and pillaging they would.


Quote:

Who Qualifies for the Exclusions and the Deduction?

If you meet certain requirements, you may qualify for the foreign earned income and foreign housing exclusions and the foreign housing deduction.

If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude from income up to $91,500 of your foreign earnings. In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts. See Foreign Earned Income Exclusion and Foreign Housing Exclusion and Deduction, later.

You also may be entitled to exclude from income the value of meals and lodging provided to you by your employer. See Exclusion of Meals and Lodging, later.
Requirements

To claim the foreign earned income exclusion, the foreign housing exclusion, or the foreign housing deduction, you must meet all three of the following requirements.

Your tax home must be in a foreign country.

You must have foreign earned income.

You must be one of the following.

A U.S. citizen who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year.

A U.S. resident alien who is a citizen or national of a country with which the United States has an income tax treaty in effect and who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year.

A U.S. citizen or a U.S. resident alien who is physically present in a foreign country or countries for at least 330 full days during any period of 12 consecutive months.
[/quote]
handfleisch
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
handfleisch wrote:

FYI see below, I didn't need to fact check because I have a lot of experience living and working abroad, didn't have to pay US taxes. I don't make claims unless I know they're true
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/ch04.html#en_US_2010_publink100047398


Ocalhoun said that America collects taxes from Americans abroad. That is completely 100% true. I proved that. He did not say that they collect taxes from 100% of citizens. That would be incorrect, as you shown. But if he is going to make a broad statement like he did, then you cannot respond with "This is not true at all." That is the first line you said and it is blatantly wrong like I showed you. They do tax people, just not 100% of people. All I was doing was providing the proof that they do tax people and therefore showing you that you were incorrect in your very first statement.

However, I did realize, as posting that there were probably exceptions. There are always exceptions in our tax system because it is very complicated. Quite a few people are trying to simplify the tax system. I did read your second system that mentioned income level. I did realize that income level could quite possibly be an exception and that you could be correct but didn't look into it because I didn't really care. I was mostly responding to your very first line that says "This is not true at all" when it clearly was true in many cases. Ocalhoun said the U.S. will tax Americans abroad and that is true. I proved it.


Jeez you're kind of overreacting to being a little bit wrong, aren't you? OC's message said this:

Quote:
*Say, I (a US citizen) go to Germany for 5 years, working and spending my money there... By US law, I would still owe full income taxes for all those years, even if I never bring any of that money back to the US. (That's in addition to all applicable German taxes, by the way; in that situation I would be forced to pay the taxes of two countries.)


I said this isn't true at all because it isn't. Most workers in that position don't have to pay US taxes for most of the time they are there. The exclusions and deductions easily cover the overwhelming majority of Americans working abroad, as I know from experience. End of story.
Afaceinthematrix
handfleisch wrote:

I said this isn't true at all because it isn't. Most workers in that position don't have to pay US taxes for most of the time they are there. The exclusions and deductions easily cover the overwhelming majority of Americans working abroad, as I know from experience. End of story.


Yes it is true. By law it is, as I showed you. You're looking at the exceptions and saying "because there are exceptions then it isn't true at all." That is just stupid.

If I said, "Cars run on gasoline" would you respond with "That is not true at all" because of the fact that there are some exceptions? I would hope not... Yet you're doing that here. I don't care how lenient the exceptions are. The fact of the matter is that we have tax laws targeted towards the people Ocalhoun was talking about. You're just ignoring it.
ocalhoun

You do realize you're defending my post more vehemently than I defended it myself right?




Anyway, I suppose my hypothetical situation could be true, since I didn't specify what that person's income level was.
But I do admit, now that I know some of the exceptions to the rule, this hypothetical person would probably not owe US taxes.
Afaceinthematrix
ocalhoun wrote:

You do realize you're defending my post more vehemently than I defended it myself right?




Anyway, I suppose my hypothetical situation could be true, since I didn't specify what that person's income level was.
But I do admit, now that I know some of the exceptions to the rule, this hypothetical person would probably not owe US taxes.


I don't care who posted what or who said what. I'm not defending you because it doesn't really matter if you're wrong or right in the long run. We're on anonymous forums and no one will ever know the difference. However, I do support the requirement of accurate statements and information. I do not support misinformation or disinformation. The first sentence that I had an issue with was a case of one of those (I don't know which one; only handefleish would know). You cannot say that something isn't true at all when it's true in many cases and then expect no one to call you out on it. Just like my example saying that you can't say it's not true at all that cars run on gasoline just because some don't. You never said that all Americans get taxed abroad. You just said Americans get taxed abroad which would technically be true if you just found one example. However, I found the official laws showing that a whole group of people do. And it's morally wrong on the part of the U.S...
handfleisch
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:

You do realize you're defending my post more vehemently than I defended it myself right?




Anyway, I suppose my hypothetical situation could be true, since I didn't specify what that person's income level was.
But I do admit, now that I know some of the exceptions to the rule, this hypothetical person would probably not owe US taxes.


I don't care who posted what or who said what. I'm not defending you because it doesn't really matter if you're wrong or right in the long run. We're on anonymous forums and no one will ever know the difference. However, I do support the requirement of accurate statements and information. I do not support misinformation or disinformation. The first sentence that I had an issue with was a case of one of those (I don't know which one; only handefleish would know). You cannot say that something isn't true at all when it's true in many cases and then expect no one to call you out on it. Just like my example saying that you can't say it's not true at all that cars run on gasoline just because some don't. You never said that all Americans get taxed abroad. You just said Americans get taxed abroad which would technically be true if you just found one example. However, I found the official laws showing that a whole group of people do. And it's morally wrong on the part of the U.S...


My post was neither misinformation or disinformation, as you have charged; it was actually quite the opposite, to let any readers know that if they take a job overseas, they won't have to pay US taxes on their income. This is true in the overwhelming majority of cases. So it was accurate, and you have put your foot in your mouth by jumping all over it, and now you just refuse to back off. Weird how you started this, were wrong, and now just can't let it go.

To use your analogy, it's as if someone posted "cars run on water" and I wrote "that's not true at all" because the overwhelming majority run on gas. If someone finds a car or two with steam engines, that doesn't discount my post. It's asinine hair-splitting to say otherwise.
Afaceinthematrix
handfleisch wrote:

My post was neither misinformation or disinformation, as you have charged; it was actually quite the opposite, to let any readers know that if they take a job overseas, they won't have to pay US taxes on their income. This is true in the overwhelming majority of cases. So it was accurate, and you have put your foot in your mouth by jumping all over it, and now you just refuse to back off. Weird how you started this, were wrong, and now just can't let it go.


Keep telling yourself that. It was either misinformation or disinformation. And you're being incredibly dimwitted by not understanding that the U.S. taxing many people overseas is a counter-example to "That is not true at all" when someone states that the U.S. does what they do.


Quote:
To use your analogy, it's as if someone posted "cars run on water" and I wrote "that's not true at all" because the overwhelming majority run on gas. If someone finds a car or two with steam engines, that doesn't discount my post. It's asinine hair-splitting to say otherwise.


Oh yes because 90k is soooo much more than the average income.
handfleisch
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
handfleisch wrote:

My post was neither misinformation or disinformation, as you have charged; it was actually quite the opposite, to let any readers know that if they take a job overseas, they won't have to pay US taxes on their income. This is true in the overwhelming majority of cases. So it was accurate, and you have put your foot in your mouth by jumping all over it, and now you just refuse to back off. Weird how you started this, were wrong, and now just can't let it go.


Keep telling yourself that. It was either misinformation or disinformation. And you're being incredibly dimwitted by not understanding that the U.S. taxing many people overseas is a counter-example to "That is not true at all" when someone states that the U.S. does what they do.


Quote:
To use your analogy, it's as if someone posted "cars run on water" and I wrote "that's not true at all" because the overwhelming majority run on gas. If someone finds a car or two with steam engines, that doesn't discount my post. It's asinine hair-splitting to say otherwise.


Oh yes because 90k is soooo much more than the average income.


http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html
Quote:
Per capita money income in past 12 months (2009 dollars) 2005-2009 $27,041
Median household income definition and source info Median household income, 2009 $50,221
this one says
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html
Quote:
Per Capita Personal Income
40,584


So, yes, 90k is "soooo much more than the average income". Anyway you're wrong again and what's hilarious this time is you started this whole thing calling me out, saying
Quote:
you should probably still fact check (even if you think you're positive because we all make mistakes) it before opening your mouth.

but you just went and did it yourself. Now your foot is somewhere around your esophagus and you're still defending your mistake in your strange, erroneous defense of someone's else post. And you call other people dimwitted! Have fun with your retort, since you've lost all credibility. May I suggest another diatribe about morality?
deanhills
I'm almost certain the US has to be the same as Canada in that worldwide income will only be taxed if the person is earning money in Canada while they are living abroad. I'm a Canadian expat living and working abroad. I had to prove that I would be abroad for at least three years, and that during that period I would not earn any money in Canada through renting properties, or earning dividends on stocks, etc. etc. in order to be registered for exempt tax status. That was the VERY FIRST thing I did when I started my employment in the UAE. To register exempt tax status with Ottawa. The moment I earn taxable income in Canada, I'm liable on taxes for all of my income abroad. Ditto the UK. I'm not that knowledgeable on the US, but reckon that has to be some of the same. In the UK I know that people are even limited to the period that they can be present in the UK in order to have a tax exempt status. The UK is getting very complicated too to the extent that my friends here all have accountants to advise them on the latest changes in UK expat taxation regulations.
ocalhoun
deanhills wrote:
I'm almost certain the US has to be the same as Canada in that worldwide income will only be taxed if the person is earning money in Canada while they are living abroad.

Problem is, it isn't like that.

Without one of the exemptions mentioned above, you would owe USA taxes on all earned income, no matter what country you earned it in, no matter what country you kept it in, and no matter what country you spent it in.
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
deanhills wrote:
I'm almost certain the US has to be the same as Canada in that worldwide income will only be taxed if the person is earning money in Canada while they are living abroad.

Problem is, it isn't like that.

Without one of the exemptions mentioned above, you would owe USA taxes on all earned income, no matter what country you earned it in, no matter what country you kept it in, and no matter what country you spent it in.
You're right of course - refer first paragraph of article below. Just Googled it for the first time. It is even against the law for US citizens to give up their citizenship in order to avoid paying US taxes. They have to file their taxes every year, even when they are abroad. And they have to claim any credits for living abroad during that tax year. The enclosed article by a Lawyer is quite interesting. Apparently the taxes payable can be offset by an Income Exclusion and Tax Credits, so only the real wealthy are probably affected by this, a 74,000 USD annual income exclusion is quite a huge amount. Guess best option is to hire a lawyer/accountant who specializes in stuff like this:

Quote:
Foreign Earned Income Exclusion
If you live abroad for a full calendar year, or live there for 330 days out of any consecutive 12 month period, you can exclude up to $74,000 of earned income from U.S. Income Taxation for 1999.

If you are married, and both of you earn income and reside in Mexico, you can also exclude up to another $74,000 of your spouses income from taxation. These exclusions can only be claimed on a filed tax return and is not automatic if you fail to file your Form 1040 for the year it applies as well as the appropriate forms claiming this exclusion. This is a fantastic advantage for people who live and work overseas. in Mexico. Earned income is that paid you for your work or services and does not apply to rental income, dividend or interest income, or other types of income that is not paid for your own personal efforts. You can also claim additional an additional exclusion from your U.S. taxes in excess of the $74,000, if the rent you pay on your residence overseas and other living expenses exceed a standard amount established by the IRS. This exclusion only comes into play when your earnings are in excess of the $74,000 foreign income exclusion.

Foreign Tax Credit

You can claim a foreign tax credit which directly offsets your U.S. taxes for any income which is earned overseas and is subject to tax providing your residence country requires you to pay income taxes.

This foreign tax credit can only be used to offset U.S. taxes on income you earn abroad or on interest or dividends earned abroad. The credit cannot exceed the amount of U.S. taxes you actually pay on that foreign income. If the amount of foreign taxes, exceeds the amount you can claim as a credit on your Form 1040, the excess can be carried over to future years when it might be utilized when your foreign taxes on foreign income are less than your U.S. taxes on that income.


Source: http://www.escapeartist.com/efam5/expat_tax_2.html
jmi256
handfleisch wrote:
I didn't need to fact check because I have a lot of experience living and working abroad, didn't have to pay US taxes.


You mean you didn’t “pay your fair share”? Why is it that you and the other Left-wingers insist on everyone else paying higher taxes to support your fringe pet projects, but refuse to pay your fair share of taxes?
deanhills
jmi256 wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
I didn't need to fact check because I have a lot of experience living and working abroad, didn't have to pay US taxes.


You mean you didn’t “pay your fair share”? Why is it that you and the other Left-wingers insist on everyone else paying higher taxes to support your fringe pet projects, but refuse to pay your fair share of taxes?


I don't know why people are fiddling around with pennies when the Government is printing trillions of dollars and Banks are robbing their clients "legally" of their savings. If they can use all that finger-pointing energy to sort out the root of the problem, maybe everyone would stand a better chance of surviving the next few decades without a major depression.
jmi256
deanhills wrote:
jmi256 wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
I didn't need to fact check because I have a lot of experience living and working abroad, didn't have to pay US taxes.


You mean you didn’t “pay your fair share”? Why is it that you and the other Left-wingers insist on everyone else paying higher taxes to support your fringe pet projects, but refuse to pay your fair share of taxes?


I don't know why people are fiddling around with pennies when the Government is printing trillions of dollars and Banks are robbing their clients "legally" of their savings. If they can use all that finger-pointing energy to sort out the root of the problem, maybe everyone would stand a better chance of surviving the next few decades without a major depression.

The root of the problem is left-wing statist policies that strive to give more and more power to the government (often claimed to be “in the good of the children” /sarcasm) at the expense of individual rights and liberties. That includes taking the earnings of taxpayers in order to feed their beast. At the same time these hypocrites refuse to pay taxes themselves and looks for every loophole and excuse to get themselves and their buddies out of paying “their fair share” that they are always accusing others of not paying. Geithner and Rangel are just two examples, but the ugly goes down to the bone of the Democratic party.
deanhills
jmi256 wrote:
The root of the problem is left-wing statist policies that strive to give more and more power to the government (often claimed to be “in the good of the children” /sarcasm) at the expense of individual rights and liberties. That includes taking the earnings of taxpayers in order to feed their beast. At the same time these hypocrites refuse to pay taxes themselves and looks for every loophole and excuse to get themselves and their buddies out of paying “their fair share” that they are always accusing others of not paying. Geithner and Rangel are just two examples, but the ugly goes down to the bone of the Democratic party.
OK I understand your point, but not with regard to taxes payable by people working outside the country. I'm sure the tax system must be an equitable system for those US citizens who are living abroad for longer periods of time. They are given a realistic and very sizable income exclusion when they do their tax returns.
jmi256
deanhills wrote:
jmi256 wrote:
The root of the problem is left-wing statist policies that strive to give more and more power to the government (often claimed to be “in the good of the children” /sarcasm) at the expense of individual rights and liberties. That includes taking the earnings of taxpayers in order to feed their beast. At the same time these hypocrites refuse to pay taxes themselves and looks for every loophole and excuse to get themselves and their buddies out of paying “their fair share” that they are always accusing others of not paying. Geithner and Rangel are just two examples, but the ugly goes down to the bone of the Democratic party.
OK I understand your point, but not with regard to taxes payable by people working outside the country. I'm sure the tax system must be an equitable system for those US citizens who are living abroad for longer periods of time. They are given a realistic and very sizable income exclusion when they do their tax returns.

I was just making a sarcastic comment aimed at exposing the hypocrisy. The ones who yell the loudest about everyone paying “their fair share”, which somehow gets translated into others paying more, are the very ones who refuse to pay their “fair share.” I would make the argument that those who are working and earning outside of the US (or any other country) should pay taxes based on where the income is earned and those tax laws, not taxed by a country in which they don’t reside. I would argue they are not using the services provided by their “home” country (and in some cases may have fled oppressive tax regimes) and should therefore not be forced to pay into a system in which they draw no benefit. But if you subscribe to that idea, then you also have to agree that putting a gun to a taxpayer’s head and forcing them to pay into a welfare system that rewards complacency rather than offers a hand up, or government-mandated health insurance, or any of the other left-wing program violates that principle and is simply stupid and oppressive. Or at the least admit your hypocrisy.
deanhills
jmi256 wrote:
I was just making a sarcastic comment aimed at exposing the hypocrisy.
OK got it! Embarassed

jmi256 wrote:
The ones who yell the loudest about everyone paying “their fair share”, which somehow gets translated into others paying more, are the very ones who refuse to pay their “fair share.” I would make the argument that those who are working and earning outside of the US (or any other country) should pay taxes based on where the income is earned and those tax laws, not taxed by a country in which they don’t reside. I would argue they are not using the services provided by their “home” country (and in some cases may have fled oppressive tax regimes) and should therefore not be forced to pay into a system in which they draw no benefit. But if you subscribe to that idea, then you also have to agree that putting a gun to a taxpayer’s head and forcing them to pay into a welfare system that rewards complacency rather than offers a hand up, or government-mandated health insurance, or any of the other left-wing program violates that principle and is simply stupid and oppressive. Or at the least admit your hypocrisy.
Well said! The fact that the tax system is also as complicated as it is with virtually thousands of pages that accountants have to work through and make sense off is probably very unhelpful too.
ocalhoun
jmi256 wrote:

The root of the problem is left-wing statist policies that strive to give more and more power to the government (often claimed to be “in the good of the children” /sarcasm) at the expense of individual rights and liberties.

Yeah... right...

Because a right-wing statist would never do such a thing...
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