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Did Extra Terrestrials visit the Earth ?





_AVG_
Well, I recently started reading Erich Von Daniken's books and some of his claims are astonishingly albeit outrageous. In fact, I also saw a documentary television show about the same subject.

The major claim is that "EXTRA TERRESTRIALS" visited the Earth a few thousand years ago, providing several civilizations with technology required to make such wonderful megalithic structures.

While I immediately dismiss any "scriptural" evidence (such as the Bible, the "Mana Machine", etc.) because I believe that such scriptures are more allegorical and literary, not historical documents. I'm also not convinced completely by Daniken (in fact, I can almost say that it's very deeply disguised speculation). What I find worthy of devoting thought to are the actual technological evidence ... looking at the size of the stones, the elaborate structures (the Egyptian pyramids are a canonical example) and the fact that modern technology is forced to its limits when trying to reconstruct something like this, it does seem that the archaeologists do not provide accurate information (about the tools used, etc.)

Any opinions on this?
ExMachina
Unfortunately, the History Channel has developed a whole series around this titled "Ancient Aliens".

While it's fun to come up with all of these what-if scenarios and imagine how things could have happened, subscribers to the ancient astronaut theory really have no tangible, measurable evidence. In the end, everything they say or claim is entirely circumstantial and made up in their heads. It's akin to fantasy.

As to the pyramids, I believe there are quite a few widely accepted theories that have been reproduced that adequately explain how they could have been constructed. As to any other mysteries out there, archaeologists just haven't dug deep enough. To quote Belloq, "Archaeology is not an exact science." We're talking about civilizations that are thousands of years old, in some instances the evidence just may not exist or we haven't found it; archaeology takes a lot of time and patience, it's not enough to simply propose an idea of how something occurred four thousand years ago and not have a shred of physical evidence to back it up.

I also subscribe to the idea that ancient humans (even prehistoric humans) were way more intelligent, creative and industrious then we give them credit for. It's just that throughout the centuries that have elapsed knowledge has been lost, either by being destroyed or not passed down to the next generation. In our "modern" era, we have a tendency to assume that if can't be done with machines and computers then it just can't be done.
metalfreek
This topic is certainly interesting but i don't think Aliens has ever visited Earth in the past and their journey here is highly unlikely in the future. But there materials are certainly interesting when you watch a Documentary or Movies.
Bikerman
Von-Daniken is not worthy of serious consideration. His nonsense has been refuted comprehensively, and isn't worth the effort required to do so again.
ocalhoun
It's the old 'god of the gaps' argument surfaced in new form.

We don't know how these ancient people did these things, so we want to attribute it to some other entity... but saying that they were helped by god has fallen out of fashion... so, instead, we invent a new imaginary entity that must be responsible: aliens.


Really, though, given that it doesn't hold great importance, it's better to just admit that we don't know for sure how they did it.
They could have been helped by aliens... or gods, or invisible pink unicorns, or giants, et cetera... Or perhaps they had some technique we haven't thought of yet.
No reason to assume any of those particular cases without evidence for them though; just leave it as an unknown for now.

It's fun to think that aliens might have helped, and that ancient peoples' ideas of gods were actually depictions of alien beings... but it's at least as likely that they simply made those gods up, and that they accomplished their great works through massive use of slave labor.
Josso
That would be breaking the core principles of the prime directive Laughing
gandalfthegrey
Do you aliens exist? Probably.

Do they look anything at all like us, or as portrayed by Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, or Battlestar Galatica? Probably not.

Do they have the ability to transport matter across the universe fast than the speed of light?
Probably not.


Unless some species has become so advance as to master matter itself, I doubt we'll be seeing any little green men anytime soon.
ocalhoun
gandalfthegrey wrote:

Do they have the ability to transport matter across the universe fast than the speed of light?
Probably not.


Unless some species has become so advance as to master matter itself, I doubt we'll be seeing any little green men anytime soon.


Ah, but they don't necessarily need to go faster than the speed of light.
All they need is a spaceship that can be self-sufficient for extremely long periods, and a very long-range outlook on life.
(Having such a long-range outlook may be much easier if they have indefinite lifespans, or if they are hive-mind-like, where individuals may die, but the overall mind does not.)
We usually live less than 100 years, and consider an exploratory voyage taking several years to be worthwhile... How long of an expedition would a being with a lifespan of 1 million years think worthwhile?
If you've got a spaceship -- however slow -- that can refuel at any star, and store enough energy (and produce enough other supplies) to cross interstellar distances, you could explore the stars for as long as you have the patience and lifespan to do so.

--There's also the idea of some type of hibernation... It doesn't matter if the trip takes 1000 years if you can sleep the whole way and only experience it as if it was a good night's sleep. (That's assuming you don't mind missing 2000 years at home, not counting relativity effects.)



That said, if any UFO sightings have a true extraterrestrial explanation, the most likely would be one of millions of robotic probes sent out a long time ago to explore... and likely programmed to avoid contact with intelligence, hence the rarity of true sightings, if there are any.
jetgirltaxi
The number of extra-terrestrial civilizations depends on the following factors:

1. How many stars are there?
2. How many of those stars have planets?
3. Of those, how many are in a "Goldilocks" orbit, not too far as to be too cold to support life, and not too close as to be too hot.
4. Of those, how many have life?
5. Of those planets which have life, how many develop intelligent life?
6. Of those planets which develop intelligent life, how many develop what we would recognize as a technologically advanced civilization?
7. Lastly, and most importantly, of those advanced civilizations, how many survive long enough to have traveled the galaxy outside of their tiny little region?

Some of you will recognize these terms as part of the so-called "Drake Equation". The answer to questions 1, 2 and 3 are fairly well-known. There are currently more than 1200 known extra-solar planets, but only a handful, maybe a dozen or so are "earth-like". Not a good percentage, about 1 percent, but considering there are 400 billion stars in this galaxy alone, that comes to 4 billion habitable planets. OK so let's assume that 1:100 is typical for the other answers as well. So you get:

4. 40 million
5. 400,000
6. 4000
7. 40

Each answer is two orders of magnitude less than the one before. So there are maybe forty extra-terrestrial civilizations in this galaxy that have survived long enough (tens or hundreds of millions of years) to have maybe found earth. Even then it is far from certain that we have been contacted. We may simply not be very interesting, at least not at the time. The original contact may have been a million years ago, and at the time we weren't worthy of more than a footnote ("potentially intelligent simians on planet 3 of system xk563-32r9, follow up next time we are here, in 2-3 million years"). Of course by the time they get back to us the footnote may read "previously inhabited planet, now largely devoid of life".
Bikerman
ocalhoun wrote:
gandalfthegrey wrote:

Do they have the ability to transport matter across the universe fast than the speed of light?
Probably not.


Unless some species has become so advance as to master matter itself, I doubt we'll be seeing any little green men anytime soon.


Ah, but they don't necessarily need to go faster than the speed of light.

quite so. In fact, allowing for time dilation effects, they could do the trip within a year (their time), IF they can get close to c.

Say they are at the other side of the galaxy - about 80,000 light years away.

Now, say they can get to 0.9999999999c
Plug that in and we get a lorentz factor (time dilation) of about 224,000
80,000/224,000 = 0.35 light years.
Haley_Madison
I personally think that Earth has been seeded by meteors that carried in biology from other planets (worlds). They have found meteors will amino acids, etc...so, it probably happened that way or aliens (us?) came and seeded the planet and left.
diwasblack
evolution of living cell form the pools of various chemical is very hard to believe. And well i don't think there is an absolute evidence for it so evolution for a cell that came form meteor is well a bit odd but it is acceptable if there are other living beings on the other planets
Bikerman
Bah - this is a science forum, not a noddy-creationist rant-board.
If you don't know the difference between abiogenesis and evolution then I wouldn't be expressing any opinions here if I were you....science is not a democracy and uninformed opinions are worthless.
D'Artagnan
Bikerman wrote:
Bah - this is a science forum, not a noddy-creationist rant-board.
If you don't know the difference between abiogenesis and evolution then I wouldn't be expressing any opinions here if I were you....science is not a democracy and uninformed opinions are worthless.


i don't know if i love you or hate you Razz
Bikerman
You are free to do either, but regardless of what people think of me I WILL insist that these science boards are not infested by religious trolls, zealots with an agenda or other non-science and non-sense.
There are boards where people may post their pet theories or religious beliefs, but these boards are NOT the place for either.
prezgarfield
D'Artagnan wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
Bah - this is a science forum, not a noddy-creationist rant-board.
If you don't know the difference between abiogenesis and evolution then I wouldn't be expressing any opinions here if I were you....science is not a democracy and uninformed opinions are worthless.


i don't know if i love you or hate you Razz

I love him.
nguyenvulong
You should watch : Acient Alien


Classic series "Battlestar Galactica" opened with saying: There are things that people believe that life comes from people in distant species in the universe ...
What if life on Earth originated from outer space? Millions of people recognize the hypothesis of intelligent life forms have visited Earth thousands of years ago and was originally worshiped as divine. Was Stonehenge and Easter Island is a legacy of the visits by extraterrestrial creatures? From the super-massive structure could not explain to the knowledge of the solar system, mathematics, and even generate electricity or skills PCs, Series this special documentary reveals evidence of a super-race effect on the process of human history and launched a search spanning the globe to find the answers ...

How would you explain the transport of the ancient megalith in the train, then take to put them into place as we see today? Or how to create perfect fitting joints for the rocks?

The drawings on the Nazca desert as seen from the ground there was no sense, but only fully observable from above. They are made for people who have the ability to fly into the air. There is no other explanation. [Erik von Daniken]

Is it in the ancient history books in Sanskrit of India has described the magic flying chariot is called Vimana and the signs of a nuclear explosion occurred thousands of years ago?
Do you think that the ancients made these things by hand without the aid of technology or machinery? There must have been divine intervention from the protection from the sky? Even with today's modern technology, the reconstructed one of the ancient works is impossible.
If aliens have visited Earth in the past, will they not return? With the theory theorists aliens ancient times, the answer is yes. They believe that by sharing views with the world, they will enable future generations to be mentally prepared before the meeting in the future.
Bikerman
nguyenvulong wrote:
You should watch : Acient Alien
No, you shouldn't, unless your idea of science is pseudoscientific balderdash, voiced by third rate 'popular science' authors and proven fraudsters. Personally I'd rather chew my left leg off.
Quote:
Classic series "Battlestar Galactica" opened with saying: There are things that people believe that life comes from people in distant species in the universe ...
Ahh...that well known documentary series....
Quote:
What if life on Earth originated from outer space? Millions of people recognize the hypothesis of intelligent life forms have visited Earth thousands of years ago and was originally worshiped as divine.

So, millions of people are gullible twits....so what?
Quote:
Was Stonehenge and Easter Island is a legacy of the visits by extraterrestrial creatures?
No
Quote:
From the super-massive structure could not explain to the knowledge of the solar system, mathematics, and even generate electricity or skills PCs,
Examples please - this is just parrotting anecdote.
Quote:
Series this special documentary reveals evidence of a super-race effect on the process of human history and launched a search spanning the globe to find the answers ...

Brian Switek (Smithsonian Science Writer) characterised ths show as:
Quote:
...some of the most noxious sludge in television’s bottomless chum bucket.

Having watched the first episode, I think he understates it somewhat.
mazito
when i was younger so much younger than today..... (sorry Beatles)


i use to belive all those stuff UFOS, Atlantida or some other civilization that is forgotten, but then i knew my high scholl teacher of science my point of view change radical, he teachs me whats mean science and evidence and all about the scientific method, with the time we was friends, i need to acept that i was a lousy student, but with this teacher i had my best notes in that time , and just a few os us can recive decent notes with him.

After school I kept interested in scientific issues, but using the main premise of skepticism.

The human being is easy to convince about magical things, but when you try to talk about facts hear some nonsense ideas, just based on words not facts
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:

Quote:
Was Stonehenge and Easter Island is a legacy of the visits by extraterrestrial creatures?
No


I've seen some interesting things saying that the great pyramids, for example, were originally constructed to a degree of precision that would be extremely difficult to match, even with modern technology, on such a scale... there's even some decent evidence that ancient peoples experimented with electricity, going as far as to figure out how to electroplate gold onto other metals...

But then again, that's still hardly proof of extraterrestrial help, especially when you consider that the ancient people, while having less technology and education, were still essentially as smart as we are today... I guess they just found ways to do it... ways we haven't even thought of, being distracted with thinking of the way we'd do it with modern technology.
I figure it's just reason to be impressed with those ancient peoples' ingenuity -- being able to do so much with so little.
cfvergara
Numbers are so much stacked against this being true that if they did we'd be about as capable of interacting with them as maggots are with respect to us.

Even so, that would be so cool... I mean, for an intelligent species coming here, helping us put our crap together could very well be a lot like helping termites nest, and that kind of stuff. Would make us all collectively long for being able to do that to other sentient species later on our technical development, and if massively acknowledged, might even do lots to keep humans together instead of against each other.

Still, numbers say no. Sorry about that
Bikerman
ocalhoun wrote:
Bikerman wrote:

Quote:
Was Stonehenge and Easter Island is a legacy of the visits by extraterrestrial creatures?
No


I've seen some interesting things saying that the great pyramids, for example, were originally constructed to a degree of precision that would be extremely difficult to match, even with modern technology, on such a scale... there's even some decent evidence that ancient peoples experimented with electricity, going as far as to figure out how to electroplate gold onto other metals...
'Decent evidence' is putting it too strongly. It is one hypothesis used to account for artifacts like the 'Baghdad Battery' but to the best of my knowledge no electroplated artifacts have been found to substantiate this.
The notion that the pyramids were built to an extraordinary level of precision is largely based on the old theory that slave-labour was used. It would indeed have been extraordinary for slaves to have worked to the required tolerances. Recent discoveries, however, suggest that the builders may have been skilled artisans - specialists, who would have accrued the required skills over generations.
Quote:
But then again, that's still hardly proof of extraterrestrial help, especially when you consider that the ancient people, while having less technology and education, were still essentially as smart as we are today... I guess they just found ways to do it... ways we haven't even thought of, being distracted with thinking of the way we'd do it with modern technology.
And there, I think, you hit the nail squarely on the head. Certainly we should give the 'ancients' due credit for some wonderful feats of engineering and design, but to invoke supernatural or alien help is actually to demean their achievements, as well as being completely unnecessary to explain what we see.
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
but to the best of my knowledge no electroplated artifacts have been found to substantiate this.

From what I heard, the theory is that it was mostly only used for very large projects, so most were either a) melted down over the years to reclaim the gold or b) sitting in a museum somewhere, assumed to be solid gold, but where it would be very difficult to get permission to actually test that.

At any rate, I don't suppose it was used very often, so perhaps every last example of it falls under category 'a'...

(But then again, maybe such contraptions were only ever used to create sparks, or some other manifestation of electricity that could be passed off as magic to the common people of the time (and therefore used to reinforce control over them.) ... If the high priests can call upon their gods to create blindingly bright flashes of blue light on command, who are you to doubt their word?)

At any rate, it's neat to think that electricity had been discovered and put to some kind of purpose thousands of years before we normally think of it being discovered.
Bikerman
I'll be amongst the first to applaud, if and when some substantive evidence emerges. I have long guarded against the natural tendency to see older civilizations as 'primitive in all things' and would be neither surprised, nor reluctant to acknowledge, that previous civilizations/cultures had mastery, or at least knowledge, of things we currently regard as entirely modern. To me it speaks to our ingenuity as a species.
Dennise
Ocalhoun said:

Quote:
That said, if any UFO sightings have a true extraterrestrial explanation, the most likely would be one of millions of robotic probes sent out a long time ago to explore... and likely programmed to avoid contact with intelligence, hence the rarity of true sightings, if there are any.


Robotic probes .. yes e.g. the Pioneer and Voyager probes we have launched. Buy why do you think it likely probes from other worlds would be programed to avoid contact with intelligence? Avoidance of biological organisms and contagions maybe - but I'd think just the opposite regarding intelligence - if one could define or detect extraterrestrial intelligence well enough.

What about future really smart human launched probes from Earth or elsewhere? Would we program these to avoid extraterrestrial intelligence?

These questions - for now - ignore the extraordinarily long time spans for us-them communications.
Bikerman
Well, Hawking for one has expressed some reservations. He notes (correctly) that in EVERY SINGLE CASE where an advanced civilization has met a more primitive one, it ends in tears for the primitives. Now, OK, we only have the one species to go by, but the classic sci-fi notion of benevolent aliens landing and teaching us seems to me to be rather unwarranted assumption.
Mr_Howl
Bikerman wrote:
Well, Hawking for one has expressed some reservations. He notes (correctly) that in EVERY SINGLE CASE where an advanced civilization has met a more primitive one, it ends in tears for the primitives. Now, OK, we only have the one species to go by, but the classic sci-fi notion of benevolent aliens landing and teaching us seems to me to be rather unwarranted assumption.


"To Serve Man"
Bikerman
Indeed - Damon Knight I think....got it somewhere....what were they called......kanimit? Something like that....pig-like aliens.....I'll have to dig it out....
Dennise
Bikerman wrote:
Well, Hawking for one has expressed some reservations. He notes (correctly) that in EVERY SINGLE CASE where an advanced civilization has met a more primitive one, it ends in tears for the primitives. Now, OK, we only have the one species to go by, but the classic sci-fi notion of benevolent aliens landing and teaching us seems to me to be rather unwarranted assumption.


So we earthlings also should program our deep space probes and future robots to avoid extraterrestrial intelligence out of fear of superior intelligence out 'there'? Based solely on past and present human history and behavior, that might be the logical thing to do.

However, if we base such decisions on expected malevolent contact, we could be cheating ourselves out of answers to very important earthly problems e.g. diseases, exhaustion of Earth's resources and the human capacity to extinguish our own kind.

To encourage or avoid extraterrestrial intelligence contacts ... what a very weighty decision indeed. Intergalactic and interstellar trust .... WOW! Fertile 'ground' for future space lawyers?
Bikerman
I think Hawking was musing specifically on the Voyager craft and responding to a question about the idea of it carrying a CD with greetings from us. He was also rather playing devil's advocate than expressing serious concern I think. In fact there is no exploration that we can conceivably do that will make much difference. Our broadcasts are zooming outwards at the speed of light, and have already reached many stars that we cannot hope to reach for a LONG time (if ever).
Dennise
You are 'probably' correct. However the situation could change drastically should so called 'worm-holes' be confirmed and we learned how to exploit them to reach other worlds. SETI scientist Dr. Eleanor "Ellie" Ann Arroway did that in Carl Sagan's great SiFi movie Contact.
Bikerman
Nah- I think not. I'm pretty sure that recent work has tended to rule this out on the grounds of either requiring huge injections of exotic matter to keep stable or the HUGE mass needed to start to think about making such a thing. If it IS possible - and I have a feeling it isn't - even theoretically - then you need a civilization that is comfortable moving suns around methinks....and that ain't even remotely US.
Dennise
Yeah .... I know worm holes are a real stretch ... maybe borderline paranormal.

Opps ... must be careful .... statements like that might bring the loonies out Wink
Bikerman
The only hypothetical I've seen that made sense scientifically was an Einstein-Rosen bridge, and I'm pretty sure that it's been shown that this would not work for a single universe and could only allow travel between two different universes and only one way.....
ocalhoun
But can we really assume we have a complete knowledge of every way wormholes or other teleportation-like technologies could possibly work?

There could be some little trick we don't realize that makes it easy... or there could be some fundamental type of structure to the universe we're not even aware of.
(Or an infinite improbability drive, anyone? ^.^ There is an almost infinitely small chance that every atom of my being is actually on a planet orbiting Sirius right now, after all. What if that 'random' chance wasn't random after all, and instead could be manipulated?)

I guess what I'm getting at is that our understanding of the universe might be too limited to say with surety that such things aren't possible... that thousands of years from now when we're contacted by aliens that use such technology, or develop it on our own, we may look back and laugh at our own hubris now when we said that it wasn't possible.
kelseymh
ocalhoun wrote:
But can we really assume we have a complete knowledge of every way wormholes or other teleportation-like technologies could possibly work?

There could be some little trick we don't realize that makes it easy... or there could be some fundamental type of structure to the universe we're not even aware of.


At which point you're no longer doing science, which is one of the baseline requirements for this set of forums. Evidence free speculation and fantasy have a welcome home elsewhere.
Bikerman
LOL...a bit harsh on philosophy Michael..Though perhaps not entirely inaccurate Smile
kelseymh
Bikerman wrote:
LOL...a bit harsh on philosophy Michael..Though perhaps not entirely inaccurate Smile


Hey, I'm not harsh on philosophy -- get a couple o' pints in me down at the pub, and I can philosophize with the best of them! But it's speculation, not science.

Cheers!
Bikerman
kelseymh wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
LOL...a bit harsh on philosophy Michael..Though perhaps not entirely inaccurate Smile


Hey, I'm not harsh on philosophy -- get a couple o' pints in me down at the pub, and I can philosophize with the best of them!
I'd enjoy that and hopefully the next time either of us gets to hop across the pond it can be arranged Smile
ocalhoun
kelseymh wrote:
But it's speculation, not science.

I might argue that speculation is the very first step in any scientific endeavor...
kelseymh
ocalhoun wrote:
kelseymh wrote:
But it's speculation, not science.

I might argue that speculation is the very first step in any scientific endeavor...


Speculation is the second (or third, fourth or fifth...) step. The first step is to be familiar with (in fact, to be an expert in) the existing science. Otherwise your speculation will either merely reproduce what is already well known, or will wander off into nonsense.
ocalhoun
kelseymh wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
kelseymh wrote:
But it's speculation, not science.

I might argue that speculation is the very first step in any scientific endeavor...


Speculation is the second (or third, fourth or fifth...) step. The first step is to be familiar with (in fact, to be an expert in) the existing science. Otherwise your speculation will either merely reproduce what is already well known, or will wander off into nonsense.

Okay, fair enough... but it still has a place.
subhan1
the topic is interesting and I too believe the same but not that they visited earth - but Yes they do exist!
Dennise
Behold we mighty and intelligent earthlings ... so full of ourselves all while carrying seeds of our own destruction.

Perhaps, in fact, we are just some kind of 'ant-farm' experiment to some superior beings that look in on us from time-to-time to see how their experiment is going .... maybe a twist on the panspermia theory once endorsed by S. Hawkins?
playfungames
I do not think that aliens have visited our planet in the past.

But sometimes, I do wonder that there are aliens out there who are much advanced than we are and they certainly have the technology to reach our planet. So maybe they came here secretly, who knows.
ocalhoun
playfungames wrote:
and they certainly have the technology to reach our planet. .

Even granted lots of alien civilizations out there in the stars, this is far from certain.

Even with much better technology, the distances involved are still daunting.
KaczuH
Former president of Russia, Dmiti Miedwiediew recently admitted in secret (in front of cameras Razz ) that aliens visit Earth, and if he reveals how many times ET did that there would be massive panic. It's funny he probably want atention. Here's the link.

Ex Russian president Dmitrij Miedwiediew mentioning aliens
zaxacongrejo
they just want us to keep here just that Very Happy
because we are a planetary plage loll
_AVG_
KaczuH wrote:
Former president of Russia, Dmiti Miedwiediew recently admitted in secret (in front of cameras Razz ) that aliens visit Earth, and if he reveals how many times ET did that there would be massive panic. It's funny he probably want atention. Here's the link.

Ex Russian president Dmitrij Miedwiediew mentioning aliens


I think it is most likely that he was joking. Smile
enilsoncba
For centuries people tell stories of aliens. Many people have heard of them, but there are few who claim to have seen a real ET. scientists say yes, they really exist. But not like those crazy movies, they refer to the possibility of simple beings, not smart, like our bacteria. And I also think so. Same news that recently saw where scientists discovered a planet called Gliese 581 d, located more than 20 light years of the Space Goofs. I think that our solar system may be habitable. But, as it is too far, there's no way to say with certainty whether there is life there. You'll know right ...
codegeek
I just ran into the Fermi paradox on wikipedia. It's an interesting article. "Where is everybody?", Fermi asks.
hamzamana
I love Ancient Aliens! they give a lot of proof to support their argument. However, personally, i believe Aliens do exist but they have not visited us in the past. But some of the things they show in the program are really weird and interesting and a lot of their questions are worth thinking about. Smile
deloria
I believe intelligent life is out there and most likely have been here or watching us. I just hope they dont think we look up to honey boo boo
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