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China to build the World's Biggest Airport O_O





quex
Nine runways, 54 square kilometers of coverage, and a capacity of up to 200 million passengers annually; the Daxing Airport is coming in 2015.

To contrast, London's Heathrow airport has 2 active runways, and handled some 65 million passengers in 2010. For my fellow Americans, Hartsfield-Jackson in Atlanta has 5 runways (3 of which are minor-domestic, shorter than 3,000 meters) and managed just under 90 million passengers in 2010.

Is this an economically sensible extension of China's epic construction boom, or is this Chinese government beginning to expand its infrastructure beyond the needs of its society? For an example of construction that has outpaced social usefulness, see the luxury ghost city of Ordos.

Meanwhile, the bottom-level manufacturing and mining jobs that began China's economic boom are already being earmarked for the last great untapped source of unconscionably cheap labor; Africa.


It's like watching the industrial revolution in America growing and crumbling through the 1900s, only in fast-forward. o_o
ocalhoun
quex wrote:

Meanwhile, the bottom-level manufacturing and mining jobs that began China's economic boom are already being earmarked for the last great untapped source of unconscionably cheap labor; Africa.


It's like watching the industrial revolution in America growing and crumbling through the 1900s, only in fast-forward. o_o

Heh, who do the outsourcers turn to when they need to outsource?
Even poorer countries, of course.

At least that may improve things in Africa somewhat.
Being a 'cheap labor' country has its own downsides, but overall they would probably benefit from it.
shivaghimire
China is running so fast in every fields. Trade, development, energy, constructions, technology and so on. It is going to win the world. Okay, keep it up China.
loremar
shivaghimire wrote:
China is running so fast in every fields. Trade, development, energy, constructions, technology and so on. It is going to win the world. Okay, keep it up China.

Wait. No, I'm not prepared to speak Chinese yet. Chinese language will have detrimental effect on my English. And I don't want to use Baidu, I'm already comfortable with Google.

I think this airport construction is a big leap in their GREED. Well, there's nothing really bad about improving your country's economy except that too much is bad, and it worries everyone else. Not to mention those shady Chinese products that most people want to buy because they're cheap. Guess what, larger airport, means more of those craps are coming.
quex
ocalhoun wrote:
At least that may improve things in Africa somewhat.
Being a 'cheap labor' country has its own downsides, but overall they would probably benefit from it.


I felt the same way when I read this. But then, I started wondering... why did China become the go-to place for outsourcing of cheap labor in the first place? Why did the first world target China instead of, say, Africa? The only valid economic reason I could think of right off the bat is that China has (or had, things are changing little by little) such strict control of its entire populace, across a wide field of exploitable natural resources. All the African nations, combined, have an even better field of natural resources to draw from, but the presence of warlords and militias and infinitely smaller and more hostile factions makes it sound like a hard place to get things done. Has it really changed so much since the late 90s that the Chinese think they will be able to outsource work to Africa with more success? Or would Africa still be a difficult place to get things done?

Wartime conditions aside, I can think of two other reasons why the west might have chosen China over Africa... one being blatantly racist. A stereotype prevails in the USA (at least; is it the same where you are?) that Asians are smart and studious. Little is done to dispel this assumption, as it doesn't exactly insult anyone; I imagine most people would like to be thought of as smart and/or studious, even if the credit comes by way of racial profiling. An older stereotype, of course, is all manner of negatives and inferiority cast upon "black" people; that they are lazy, stupid, aggressive, and dishonest, among other untruths. Much more has been said to uproot the later than the former, but racism still thrives in parts of the USA, and most people are commonly aware of the anti-black stereotypes whether they believe them or not. A combination of the two may still have been enough to cause the USA to lean towards China for its cheap labor, rather than African nations.

The other reason might have something to do with the age of exiting from the Cold War. America (and the UK, as I understand it) were both very interested in being sure to seal the Communist coffin with as many nails as they could hammer. What better way than to seed the last major Communist power left standing after the collapse of the Soviet Union with temptations of Capitalist riches? Africa fell by the wayside while companies were encouraged by Capitalist governments to extend factory contracts to the Chinese civilian worker, likely with the agenda of exposing them to western values and economic gains so that they would be less and less likely to support the Communist Chinese government if it decided to declare hostilities with western nations.

Sneaky. Or, it could all be in my head. :/
ocalhoun
quex wrote:

Sneaky. Or, it could all be in my head. :/

You're only looking at one side of the equation though...

Another important thing to consider is, 'what was China doing during this decision?'
One of the major reasons for that choice may be that China (and other Oriental countries) were actively marketing themselves as sources of cheap labor, while most countries* in Africa were content with merely extracting natural resources for an income.
You can see the same thing with many Middle Eastern countries; their leaders are content with the wealth brought in from extracting oil, so they don't make much effort to diversify their economies into other areas.

Perhaps it was either China's huge population as compared to resource supply, or perhaps it was some vestige of idealist communist care for the populace that caused them to focus on drawing in manufacturing jobs as opposed to extracting resources.


*At least the leaders of those countries, at any rate.
quex
ocalhoun wrote:
quex wrote:

Sneaky. Or, it could all be in my head. :/

You're only looking at one side of the equation though...

Another important thing to consider is, 'what was China doing during this decision?'
One of the major reasons for that choice may be that China (and other Oriental countries) were actively marketing themselves as sources of cheap labor, while most countries* in Africa were content with merely extracting natural resources for an income.
You can see the same thing with many Middle Eastern countries; their leaders are content with the wealth brought in from extracting oil, so they don't make much effort to diversify their economies into other areas.

Perhaps it was either China's huge population as compared to resource supply, or perhaps it was some vestige of idealist communist care for the populace that caused them to focus on drawing in manufacturing jobs as opposed to extracting resources.


*At least the leaders of those countries, at any rate.


Good points, and agreed all around. Do you feel it has changed since then, such that China can expect to have cooperation from African nations (or the leaders thereof, at least) in their search for outsourced labor, OR will they find it more difficult to establish manufacturing bases in Africa than the west did in China?

I've noticed China has already tried building up the infrastructure available in several African territories to ease the passage of raw materials, but it seems that, in China's absence, African endeavors to make use of the improvements are few to nil. This is a good article, if a bit dated.
ocalhoun
I don't think any of the African countries are going to go out of their way to help China, but as long as China puts effort into it, I think those countries will go along with it... Especially if there is a way for the leaders of those countries to directly benefit.
It will certainly be more difficult at first, since those countries aren't actively trying to become labor export economies... But I think if China can show them the advantages of it, it may become easy.

(They like resource extraction, because if they control the resource, they can get most of the profit for it directly. Labor, however, usually distributes profit to the laborers... If they make a way for the leaders to take a large percentage of labor profit right off the top though, I think they would become very 'labor friendly'. -- Still wouldn't be very good for the actual laborers... Though at least then, the leaders would have good reason to keep their citizens alive and healthy.)

Heh... Once Africa finally gets industrialized... who will they import labor from?
Uh oh...

I suppose one possible source would be wrecked states that used to be industrialized... Hopefully that won't happen!
quex
ocalhoun wrote:

(They like resource extraction, because if they control the resource, they can get most of the profit for it directly. Labor, however, usually distributes profit to the laborers... If they make a way for the leaders to take a large percentage of labor profit right off the top though, I think they would become very 'labor friendly'. -- Still wouldn't be very good for the actual laborers...


African militant groups (who act as de facto "leaders" because the government of the countries in which they operate isn't nearly strong enough to take them into hand) have been making money hand over fist off slave miners in resource extraction since the late 80s... what mechanism of factory labor would protect the laborers from falling into the same position of slave exploitation? The only defense I can think of would be the attention of the client company that happens to be specifying the product of the factory line at any one time... and if that's a Chinese company sub-contracting their most basic work for cheap labor, I doubt their inspections of the factories will include critiques of the working conditions, or even basic human rights for the workers.

Quote:
Though at least then, the leaders would have good reason to keep their citizens alive and healthy.)


Somehow, I think they'd rather spend out the useful lives of their workers and simply hire new ones from the endless poor of poverty-driven applicants... basic labor without any specialized skills, especially when being performed in an environment of such high unemployment and low living standards, tends not to offer any inherent protection for those with even the most experience at the controls.

Quote:
Heh... Once Africa finally gets industrialized... who will they import labor from?
Uh oh...


Wait... are you insinuating Equestria will become the thirdhand source for the world's exploitable cheap labor? Because I've got news for you; hooves are highly impractical in any industrial environment.

Also, there's the matter of existing in reality. XD

Quote:
I suppose one possible source would be wrecked states that used to be industrialized... Hopefully that won't happen!


I would KILL for a position on an intaglio press line or in a paper mill. Are those being circle-sourced back to the US, yet? ;_;
ocalhoun
quex wrote:

Quote:
Though at least then, the leaders would have good reason to keep their citizens alive and healthy.)


Somehow, I think they'd rather spend out the useful lives of their workers and simply hire new ones from the endless poor of poverty-driven applicants... basic labor without any specialized skills, especially when being performed in an environment of such high unemployment and low living standards, tends not to offer any inherent protection for those with even the most experience at the controls.

Mostly true, I suppose.
They only difference is that resource extraction often takes only a (relatively) small number of people, while for cheap labor, it would be in their interests to 'employ' a larger number of people in order to increase volume.
So, while it wouldn't be all that much better, at least more people would get to 'enjoy' it.
(Presumably, except in the case of true slaves, they chose such bad jobs because not having a job was even worse.)
Quote:


Wait... are you insinuating Equestria will become the thirdhand source for the world's exploitable cheap labor? Because I've got news for you; hooves are highly impractical in any industrial environment.

Also, there's the matter of existing in reality. XD

Ponies have been exploited for slave labor for millennia now.


The pony show is actually about the future, after ponies evolve intelligence, and sometimes also wings and magic horns... and then use those to overthrow human tyranny.

"I, for one, welcome our new pony overlords", et cetera.

(They learned a lot from humans before eliminating them though, which is why they so often do human-like things in the show, rather than just living in grassy fields like today's ponies do.)
Quote:

I would KILL for a position on an intaglio press line or in a paper mill. Are those being circle-sourced back to the US, yet? ;_;

Ah, circle-sourcing: the cure to US unemployment.
Our economy needs to get a little worse before that can happen though.
Luckily, our government is doing all the right* things to make sure that happens.
deanhills
quex wrote:
Is this an economically sensible extension of China's epic construction boom, or is this Chinese government beginning to expand its infrastructure beyond the needs of its society? [/url].
All I can see is its enormous population of 1.3-billion people. That's about four times the population of the US? And with the little experience I had when I visited, I found those I encountered quite aggressive in their marketing.

With regard to Africa - China has been making inroads into Africa and the Middle East for a while now. Everything is really for sale there, particularly countries that are dirt poor. I had a friend in the drilling business in Oman and Chinese seem to be outbidding other countries on cheap prices, but with detrimental results. It did not last long however before Oman was back with choosing contracts according to proven track records. So possibly there is some intelligence involved when Chinese cheap services and goods are not the flavour of the month any longer.
quex
deanhills wrote:
quex wrote:
Is this an economically sensible extension of China's epic construction boom, or is this Chinese government beginning to expand its infrastructure beyond the needs of its society? [/url].
All I can see is its enormous population of 1.3-billion people. That's about four times the population of the US? And with the little experience I had when I visited, I found those I encountered quite aggressive in their marketing.

With regard to Africa - China has been making inroads into Africa and the Middle East for a while now. Everything is really for sale there, particularly countries that are dirt poor. I had a friend in the drilling business in Oman and Chinese seem to be outbidding other countries on cheap prices, but with detrimental results. It did not last long however before Oman was back with choosing contracts according to proven track records. So possibly there is some intelligence involved when Chinese cheap services and goods are not the flavour of the month any longer.


This is good insight. (You mean to say you were in China, or Africa?) I think Chinese marketing techniques are pretty damn near legendary now; aggressive to a keen edge.

What exactly were the "detrimental results" you mentioned? Did the Chinese break their contracts, or were their drilling practices sub-par...? If the later, I imagine Africa would not be so careful to select the bidder with the best safety record if that same bidder were offering the higher price... mining safety in the central African regions is quite literally non-existent. The gold mines in the congo area send children squirming into tunnels too tight to turn around with no structures to prevent collapses, no ventilation, etc.

This is a pretty cool short documentary that covers some of the 2008 Chinese construction of infrastructure in Africa... think that's where I saw the children mining, too.
deanhills
quex wrote:
This is good insight. (You mean to say you were in China, or Africa?) I think Chinese marketing techniques are pretty damn near legendary now; aggressive to a keen edge.
I've been to both. There was a major influx of Chinese (from Mainland China) into South Africa after independence in 1997. There was some resistance on the informal vendor side. As there are plenty of Black Vendors for example in Johannesburg who like to put their wares out on pavements. So when Chinese positioned themselves there as well, as aggressively as they do, that did lead to some xenophobic incidences. On the more sophisticated level, I'm not as knowledgeable. But since there are about 42-million blacks in South Africa, and almost 25% or more unemployment, and unemployment is getting worse, I'd imagine there will be resistance on the formal side as well. Right now all available jobs in Government and Semi-Government are reserved for Blacks, unless there is a very specialized reason (and it has to be a super one) for appointing people from other population groups. Sort of reverse discrimination and being very protective of jobs even beyond reason. Quality of services for example has been badly compromised.

quex wrote:
What exactly were the "detrimental results" you mentioned? Did the Chinese break their contracts, or were their drilling practices sub-par...? If the later, I imagine Africa would not be so careful to select the bidder with the best safety record if that same bidder were offering the higher price... mining safety in the central African regions is quite literally non-existent. The gold mines in the congo area send children squirming into tunnels too tight to turn around with no structures to prevent collapses, no ventilation, etc.
The above example was specifically in Oman. They kept on delaying the contract, and then when they finally started to drill, the practices were sub-par.
portoskt
nice, they just need to build biggers airplane too
lrj945
China is going up
rajpk
hmm great
china is going up
and china's economy is going to be a bigger than any other country
great progress by china in past few years
quex
I will remind you gentlemen that China is now also the world's biggest polluter in yearly carbon output, and suffers horribly unhealthy living conditions in many of its cities.

"Bigger, faster" is not always a good thing.
sketteksalfa
At some point behind China's success is its engagement in militia funding, underground market, cyber terrorism which are covered by propaganda. China is only good in press and media but when you really look in the reality they are not what they appear to be.
90dota
which city?
airh3ad
This is good for tourism of the country they also build nuclear bomb.
Bluedoll
What is really amazing about China is its ability to plan. They have a plan to build a city that will be another wonder of the world. Never before has a city been built with such detail and organization. Like another great wall of China but modern, these grand construction projects are simply amazing. What makes China organized is its Governmental structure, I think. Though many people in the world are not agreeing with some policies do you not think it certainly is effective?

Where else in the world can a government tell mothers how many children they are going to have for example. I can see that happening in America or Europe - not! Laughing

Can they build an amazing project like an airporte' certainly, I'm sure. The only challenge to be faced is economics! How do you think China is doing in that department?
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