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Astral Projection





dan751
Astral Projection is technically an Out of Body experience. I'm currently reading a book on the subject, the book states that when we sleep we do it automatically, and, something that I find quite funny, cute and rather cool in concept, that families (including pets) astral project together, exploring either the physical realm (such as other parts of the planet/universe), or perhaps other dimensions. I find it really interesting that it is also very possible for us to do this on a conscious level.

What are your thoughts, experiences, and opinions? Smile

//To the scientific community. I ask that you not make posts regarding to confirm nor deny the existence and possibility of Astral Projection. Thank you.
deanhills
I do believe it is real. I just think that we've become so much desensitized as human beings that we are completely out of touch with the aura part of ourselves. I really know very little about this topic, however am open to learning and when I do have a chance would like to study it properly.
dan751
I completely agree. We have become desensitized to a lot of our potential.
Here is some more information about the topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

And here is the book I'm reading on the subject. It not only explains a lot about it, but also contains lessons on how to achieve it:
http://www.amazon.com/Astral-Dynamics-Out-Body-Experiences/dp/1571746161
loremar
I have not experienced astral projection. But if a soul is separate from the body I don't think that the soul is conscious neither the body is. That's only what I think.
deanhills
dan751 wrote:
I completely agree. We have become desensitized to a lot of our potential.
Here is some more information about the topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

And here is the book I'm reading on the subject. It not only explains a lot about it, but also contains lessons on how to achieve it:
http://www.amazon.com/Astral-Dynamics-Out-Body-Experiences/dp/1571746161
Thanks for the reference. I've got to buy some computer books that have been suggested by Adri, so will add it with those. Maybe I need to make a date for this tomorrow. I've been horrible with procrastinating over Internet purchases. Twisted Evil
Bluedoll
I think a lot goes on when we are dreaming and we sometimes only remember a small portion of our dreams. I find the images of dreams can be very inspiring but often not very realistic. Is not this acceptable though and certainly fine as dreams do not have to be concerned with anything outside dreams, in fact the more they are not like our daily routine and our reality, the better, as they seem to be more expressive that way and also sometimes make more of an impression. I have a deep respect for other domains because I can relate in these mysteries to our own personal spiritual part of ourselves, which is available to us if we want it.

For me, spiritual beliefs are an important consideration for these topics. As we explore, we should approach it respectfully. We have become less sensitive in modern times perhaps and do become less sensitive as we go about our busy life and it may be a shame if we never explore. On the other hand being insensitive can be a good thing as well if we do not have any reasonable respect for which we involve ourselves with. I think the entire book of revelation was a dream with profound imaginary. Very powerful.

If prayer is something like astral projection, what could be worse than a disrespectful prayer, so to prevent such a thing from happening, having any kind of fundamental belief based on respect and love will prevent us from abusing our privileges, if we seek to journey in that direction. In the end, even if we do not seek anything beyond our physical bodies, we are only travelers for a time.

Smile
deanhills
Bluedoll wrote:
If prayer is something like astral projection, what could be worse than a disrespectful prayer, so to prevent such a thing from happening, having any kind of fundamental belief based on respect and love will prevent us from abusing our privileges, if we seek to journey in that direction. In the end, even if we do not seek anything beyond our physical bodies, we are only travelers for a time. Smile
I'm not really sure what astral projection is. I think I have an idea, but need to study more about the subject before I can comment on it. I've just purchased the book Dan suggested from Amazon, so will wait "patiently" to receive it (probably will take three weeks or so to get to me).
Ankhanu
dan751 wrote:
Astral Projection is technically an Out of Body experience. I'm currently reading a book on the subject, the book states that when we sleep we do it automatically, and, something that I find quite funny, cute and rather cool in concept, that families (including pets) astral project together, exploring either the physical realm (such as other parts of the planet/universe), or perhaps other dimensions. I find it really interesting that it is also very possible for us to do this on a conscious level.

What are your thoughts, experiences, and opinions? Smile

//To the scientific community. I ask that you not make posts regarding to confirm nor deny the existence and possibility of Astral Projection. Thank you.


Astral projection was a pretty hot topic back in the days I was exploring occult/new age/pagan religion/spirituality. In essence, it's a visualization exercise in which one mentally separates from the limitations of the body... does that mean that one actually does separate from one's body? I don't really think so, and many practitioners likewise don't think so (some, of course think they're genuinely flying away on the astral plane, but some don't). It's a mental exercise.

In many ways, astral projection is a lot like meditation, and, more often than not, practitioners make use of mediation as a base from which to project. In this sense, yeah, most practitioners do it on a conscious level. Many tie it in with concepts like lucid dreaming as well, in which the conscious mind can influence the dreaming mind. In this idea, they can control their dreams and thereby take their consciousness on a little voyage.

Are these genuine external experiences, or completely internal to the practitioner's mind? Personally I think they're entirely internal, but there are, obviously, those who take it very seriously and believe that the projections are experiences happening outside of the body, interacting with outside agents. I'm not sure there's much to this, aside from wishful thinking and/or self-delusion... but, it can be an interesting experience nonetheless.
dan751
@deanhills: When you get it... Happy reading!! Very Happy

@Bluedoll: I completely agree. As it's a spiritually based topic, it definitely must be approached with the respect that it deserves.
It is my understanding and belief that when we dream, our minds are reflecting on things that have happened throughout the day, problems that have not been yet solved in our lives and, through astral projection, travel back to the spirit realm to talk to other spirits or do whatever else they do there to help us move forward in our lives and continue to grow/evolve spiritually.


@Ankhanu: I appreciate your comments. This thread is intended for those who consider it very real part of spirituality and wish to discuss it as such. Smile
In a manner of speaking, it is a visualization exercise. Does one actually separate from their body? .... No. We ourselves cannot actually separate from our bodies until death (the "snapping of the silver cord", as it were). To my understanding and belief, when one astral projects, they're not actually leaving they're body. Rather, either through meditation or while sleeping, we "generate" an astral double, the mind splits into multiple parts (physical mind/body, etheric body [aka energy body like an aura], and astral double) all part of the greater whole, the Higher Self (it's who one really is, the more complete/more knowing self [with all the memories/experiences and etc of past lives and whatnot]). It is the astral double that is able to leave the body since it is light enough to do so.
I know you might be thinking "mind splitting, higher self... what is this guy on?"
This book I have been reading, the information within it, is SOOOO warpped/mind-bending... that it ACTUALLY makes sense. It's a really perplexing and interesting read. Smile
While it's true that a lucid dreamer can influence what they dream about. When one astral projects, if they presume something in advance (in other words, not taking the experience as it comes without presumptions), it will have a direct influence/impact of what the projector experiences.
Ankhanu
dan751 wrote:
@Ankhanu: I appreciate your comments. This thread is intended for those who consider it very real part of spirituality and wish to discuss it as such. Smile

I really hope this isn't the dismissal that it looks like it is Razz
If it's only for practitioners and those who definitely believe, you may as well say the same to dean and bluedoll, as it's not currently something that they're believers in or practice either.

Yes, I'm currently rationalist... have I always been? Not entirely, no.

dan751 wrote:
In a manner of speaking, it is a visualization exercise. Does one actually separate from their body? .... No. We ourselves cannot actually separate from our bodies until death (the "snapping of the silver cord", as it were). To my understanding and belief, when one astral projects, they're not actually leaving they're body. Rather, either through meditation or while sleeping, we "generate" an astral double, the mind splits into multiple parts (physical mind/body, etheric body [aka energy body like an aura], and astral double) all part of the greater whole, the Higher Self (it's who one really is, the more complete/more knowing self [with all the memories/experiences and etc of past lives and whatnot]). It is the astral double that is able to leave the body since it is light enough to do so.

There are several hypotheses/beliefs concerning just what goes on with the spirit or consciousness during projection. Of course, it's impossible to know which might be right, and, indeed, none may be. What you're describing really isn't all that different from what I'd mentioned, granted, with more detail. Where I said consciousness, you're saying astral double, for example.

It might be noted, as well, that not everyone who practices astral projection believes in reincarnation either. They might take some issue with the idea of interacting with a level of themselves that recalls past lives Wink

dan751 wrote:
I know you might be thinking "mind splitting, higher self... what is this guy on?"
This book I have been reading, the information within it, is SOOOO warpped/mind-bending... that it ACTUALLY makes sense. It's a really perplexing and interesting read. Smile

Nope, like I said, I've explored these paths in the past... I'm sure nothing you can present to me in terms of "how can people believe that?!?" I haven't already encountered from other new-agers/pagans. Spend a couple years in those circles and you encounter a lot of beliefs and stances of varying degrees of reasonable to wacky.

dan751 wrote:
While it's true that a lucid dreamer can influence what they dream about. When one astral projects, if they presume something in advance (in other words, not taking the experience as it comes without presumptions), it will have a direct influence/impact of what the projector experiences.

I'm not sure what the point is here... are you saying that when one is astral projecting that one should not attempt to steer/influence the experience? 'Cause if you are, that goes against what many practitioners explicitly do to expand their horizons, as it were. Part of the point in some circles, is to project with purpose, and to learn what comes through that intentional exploration.
The way you've cast this paragraph seems to imply that astral projection should be passive, otherwise the experience is, in essence, false.

It could be that you're saying that sometimes the act of pursuing an experience can push it away; you can't try to become spiritually centered, for example, you have to let go and allow that to come to you... in which case, yeah, sometimes that's true... but sometimes you have to make an effort to go deeper than what is passively offered at the surface. A little nudge can go a long way.
dan751
@Ankhanu: It's not the dismissal it seems like. I'm open to anyone discussing it. Basically what I meant, it's my hope that some practitioners would participate too, though, I get the feeling it may be a while (if ever) that some practitioners do.

It is true that not everyone who practices astral projection does believe in reincarnation. I'm guessing you've spoken with some? They do (probably), I'm sure believe that the three parts I mentioned (physical mind/body, etheric body and astral body) are all part of some whole, to each their own, either their Higher Self or their own body or whatever it may be.

I appreciate you not considering me a whack-job for my beliefs and theories. I'm guessing you heard of such far stranger than mine?

I'll explain what I mean in steering/influencing:
The book I'm reading actually gave me an example to which I based my statement on:
"A little test one can do for astral projection and memory recall, shuffle a deck of cards, not look at any of them and place one card on a window sill with the value facing the outside. Try not to guess what the value of the card is, if you're thinking of the card might be, when you project, you'll probably see the card value you're guessing rather than what the value really is. Then go back to your room, induce projection. While projecting, go over to the card on the window sill and see what it says. Then, go back to into your body while screaming what the card says (yes it says something like that about yelling the card value as you go back in). When you're back in your body, get up and go to the card and see if you got it right."
Although it's not word for word to the book, that's as close as I can remember.
The italicized text is where I was basing my statement on.
In other words, if one is thinking they know exactly what to expect at any time, it will be counter-productive.
It basically points out the difference between projecting with intention and projecting with a set idea in mind. Having a set idea in mind when attempting to project will, in it's own right, influence and falsify parts of the experience.
So, I'm not saying that one should not try to steer/influence the experience, rather don't cheat one's self of a proper experience. Razz
I agree that projecting should done with purpose, to learn and expand horizons. It's my belief as well.

The act of astral projecting is, in itself, an effort of going deeper than what is passively offered on the surface. Very Happy
Bikerman
I'm trying to be good and not say anything scientific, but COME ON...I have no problem with people saying it is a spiritual experience, trains the mind - or whatever they like. When people say they can actually project outside their body for real, however ....that is different.
Think of the power if this actually worked. You would have Chinese 'projectors' looking at US secrets and vica versa. For that reason the US spent billions on this type of reported phenomena during the 60s - 80s. They gave it up because 'it dunt work'.
Ankhanu
dan751 wrote:
@Ankhanu: It's not the dismissal it seems like.

Phew! I was almost offended! Smile
dan751 wrote:
... it's my hope that some practitioners would participate too, though, I get the feeling it may be a while (if ever) that some practitioners do.

Yeah, I haven't seen many people here on Frih who really seem to fit the bill. There are only a couple I've noticed with leanings towards this sort of spiritualism, and they don't seem to practice this.

dan751 wrote:
It is true that not everyone who practices astral projection does believe in reincarnation. I'm guessing you've spoken with some? They do (probably), I'm sure believe that the three parts I mentioned (physical mind/body, etheric body and astral body) are all part of some whole, to each their own, either their Higher Self or their own body or whatever it may be.

I appreciate you not considering me a whack-job for my beliefs and theories. I'm guessing you heard of such far stranger than mine?

I have Razz I'd frequented a rather busy pagan IRC channel on Dalnet from about 1996-2003ish (and still pop by from time to time), and even ran it for 2 of those years... I've encountered a lot of different beliefs and different takes on the same beliefs.
No, not everyone makes use of the three-part idea. In fact many simply recognize two components, the physical body and the astral/spirit/conscious self. Many don't differentiate this aspect of their "self" from those "deeper" aspects of being, rather, they (sometimes) view the connection to the physical self as a limiting factor in their spiritual growth and/or awareness; it imposes certain perspectives, or prevents the opening of certain doors... There are other concepts as well; as with anything spiritual, no two beliefs/takes on the concept are the same. As there's nothing tangible to deal with, one view is about as likely as another.

dan751 wrote:
The italicized text is where I was basing my statement on.

Gotcha.
That's basic self-bias and that manifests in many areas of life... it's part of why double blind studies are preferred in research. It's also why we subjectively believe that there are patterns when objectively we are not, it sets up a system of confirmation biasing. This is essentially suggesting releasing subjective expectations and making impartial judgments/observations. It's good advice, really, in a very general sense, even, not just for this particular practice.
dan751
I understand where you're coming Bikerman.
And while I do hold fast to saying that it's a spiritual experience, and as such, if the wrong intentions are there such as observing government secrets or be a peeping tom, it won't work.
I'm going to snip a Question/Answer post from someone who promotes astral projection:
Abhi wrote:
Someone mailed me the other day telling me that he had a crush on this “steamy chic” (that was the exact phrase he used), and asking me that if he learned how to Astral Project, would he be able visit her while she was in her bedroom or bathroom?

I have already replied to this person, and if he is reading it again, this will be a refresher…
Theoretically speaking, while you are in the Astral, you can visit anyone, wherever they are. So the easy answer to this question is YES.

But…


If the intentions are not right, or if your thoughts are carnal, before you could even tune into the physical plane, you would get tuned into the not-so-friendly lower astral planes.

The Astral plane does not have a law governing the moral aspects of your intentions, but it does have a law that says “Like attracts like”.

So, if the vibrations of your intentions are very low (lustful, fear, anger, hatred, or any other negative emotion) you will get attracted to the lower levels of the astral planes, where there are entities whose vibrations will match that of yours…

…And let me tell you, although even in the lower astral planes, no entity can harm you physically, the experiences there are not something to get excited about!

Visiting someone consciously, whenever you want, requires a lot of desire, purity of thoughts and emotional bonding. And for that you need to be an experienced Projector. And if you are an experienced Projector, you would already know that although Astral Projection can be fun, there are much more important things to do there for your own growth, than invading someone’s privacy just for fun.

So whenever you project, always have the purest of thoughts and intentions. This will project you into the higher astral realms, which are full of fun, beauty, excitement, and of course, learning.
(Taken from: http://astralprojectnow.com/astralblog/?p=211)


So, in other words, if you're doing it for the wrong reasons, good luck getting anywhere with it. Which is why it didn't work for the US government, nor any other government attempting the same thing.
Please, let's not make this a heated debate. Smile

@Ankhanu
To each their own, if some wish to see only two parts, that's completely their choice. Smile

Good to know about the double blind studies.
Bikerman
I won't get heated. But I think you should think about this a bit more. The US government were doing it for the best of reasons - self protection. The subjects they used were very patriotic and were certainly not doing it for selfish or crass reasons.
dan751
Have you looked into the motives behind a lot of the US governments actions?
911, for example, a plane flying into a building wouldn't have caused the bottom of the building exploding first. But, this is besides the point. I don't wish to go off topic further.

Astral Projection is more for the betterment of self, I think. Although, it can certainly be used for the betterment of others as well.
Even if for self protection, something obviously prevented the subjects and US government from succeeding and seeing results. Because of this, I don't think the US government's intentions were good ones.
If the US government and subjects were using it to, let's say find the best spots in China to drop care packages, it probably would've worked. Wink
But in that case, wouldn't a simple phone call to the Chinese government suffice? Razz
Bikerman
LOL....so it's like other psychic phenomena - it doesn't work when anyone sceptical is looking..
We have people who can supposedly leave their bodies, but only if nobody is around who could act as a credible witness. If such a person tries to measure it, the astral energy source detects their scepticism and stops working even though the person themselves is devout. This is quite odd, given that they are normally surrounded by people who are sceptical, but that doesn't seem to effect it, as long as those people don't actually take an interest and look.

Clearly these phenomena must be electromagnetically sensitive, and the sceptic must be acting as a spread-spectrum broadcast source which interferes with the phenomenon. Since this only tends to happen when the sceptic is looking, it is likely that the broadcast originates from the eyes.
This is exciting stuff - it offers the possibility of longer transmission of astral bodies. The problem with the existing system is that it is baseband and therefore limited in range. If we can introduce a modulated carrier wave then much greater distances can be achieved.
What I suggest is that a sceptic should be tied in a position where they can see the astral planer. This will produce a broad-spectrum unfocussed interference. If we then modulate the sceptic so that the eyes open and close at a fixed time interval then we can generate a coherent carrier wave which should interact with the astral presence and boost the range.
What we need, therefore, is a couple of sharp sticks and someone with a good sense of timing to poke the sceptic at regular intervals in the eyes, forcing them to close and open regularly, thus generating the carrier wave.....
dan751
@Bikerman: Yes, it's very much like other psychic phenomena, doesn't work if someone is trying to disprove/exploit it. It's my belief that astral projection and psychic abilities are spiritual in nature. The spirit realm is not something that cannot be measured, proven or disproved. And, therefore, the same applies with astral projection or psychic abilities.
Whether or not one believes a spirit realm exists, is entirely dependent on their own opinions.
However, that doesn't mean that the skeptic may not be curious, speculate or wonder about such matters.

Astral projection occurs with eyes remaining closed. There is also an unlimited distance to which one can travel during AP.

I like your theory on poking someone with two sticks. It amused me. Very Happy
Bikerman
dan751 wrote:
@Bikerman: Yes, it's very much like other psychic phenomena, doesn't work if someone is trying to disprove/exploit it. It's my belief that astral projection and psychic abilities are spiritual in nature. The spirit realm is not something that cannot be measured, proven or disproved. And, therefore, the same applies with astral projection or psychic abilities.
I think you may have put an extra 'not' in here and it is important for the meaning. I think you mean that it cannot be measured, rather than the opposite. Is that right?
You see if that IS right then it is a major major problem. Every perception is a measurement. When you look at something you are measuring it. I don't mean that you are applying a tape measure, or a scale - in physics a 'measurement' is any non-reversible interaction.
Take the example of looking at the card on the astral plane. That is a measurement. If you can tell what card it is, you have measured it. Moreover, if you can tell what card it is, then you can relate that measurement to the sceptic.
In fact this has been done many times, and the results recorded. Those results show that the person CAN tell what the card is - about 1 time in 52 on average. This compares nicely with my own psychic ability. I can also tell what the card is - about 1 time in 52 on average.
dan751
Yes, I did mean that it's not able to be measured. I guess, that with the card test, is a measurement, in a manner of speaking. I prefer to see it as a test of self-capability, however. Proving to one's self that one can accomplish AP.
What I meant by it not being able to be measured is not by scientific or electromagnetic means. It's not something physical, and therefore can't be measured as such.
Anyways, back on topic. Anything to share from studying the subject? Smile Different beliefs on how it's accomplished or anything of the like? Smile
Bikerman
Certainly.
Various studies show that meditation can produce abnormal blood flow in the brain such that some areas are 'lit-up' and other areas suppressed (I'm talking mainly about the frontal and temporal lobes & the amygdala). We know from other studies that the mind can take conscious control of various 'automatic' physiological processes - heart-rate, body temperature regulation etc, so this is no great surprise.
With different blood flow in the brain one experiences different mental states - again this is well known and well documented.
So what we have is a person changing the blood flow in the brain and, as a result, inducing abnormal mental states. This would make the experience entirely subjective with no 'external' component, since it is entirely a mental construct - a state of mind.
GuidanceReader
I spent MANY, MANY years *trying* to astral project, following just about every single 'theory' for doing so that I could find, and still to this day have not been able to do what is generally accepted as Astral projection (leaving the body and travelling in this world to other places).

However, this year, I have come to a new conclusion on what I think Astral projection may be - and that is not as a travelling outside my body but of the consciousness travelling in other areas/dimensions.

I have had experiences during meditation, that another person on the other side of the world has been able to confirm for me.

I still need to do more to it to test the theory out and be convinced it's more than coincidence/good guessing on their part.
deanhills
Darn! I did buy a book by Robert Bruce on "Astral Dynamics" and "Lucid Dreaming". When I did this at the time of this thread, I scanned the contents of the book quickly and never got to studying it, which is what is needed. Will make a more concerted effort, thanks for jogging my memory Guidance. My interest is in lucid dreaming as I think it has great possibilities to train the mind to be more in touch with one's sub conscious mind. Some sports champions are using lucid dreaming as a technique to improve their sports.

So the kind of traveling I'm interested in is more within than astral, although some times it could be the same thing. I.e. have the appearance of an outside body experience, when it is actually about training the mind to stay awake when dreaming.

You may have read them already, but here is a link to some interesting articles about Lucid Dreaming:
http://lucidity.com/

Watch out for articles by Dr. Stephen LaBerge and Alan Worsley.
GuidanceReader
I very much agree, and am open to, the thought that the other dimensions/worlds travelled could well be aspects of your own brain and thought. I would like to explore more how two individuals can interact on that level though. I personally have had anecdotal evidence that proves to me that it is possible, but as this is not scientifically proven, I can not say it is more than a matter of suggestion. That being said though, I still wonder how that matter of suggestion can influence our journey's within?
emedeiros
I don't know if it's really possible do project yourself like that, but I assure that the physical sensations and the dreams you experience while trying are awesome.
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