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Can you be in two places at once?





chasbeen
Taken literally you can. I stood on a border between Switzerland and Germany.
That way I can say I was in 2 places at once.
However there are people who claim to have been conscious and drifted away from their body.
There is supposed to be proof of this as they were able to talk about things they could not have known about.
Has it happened to you or what is your take on of the subject?
Bikerman
You can probably guess my take on it.....show me the evidence - that would be my take Smile
Nameless
My left hand and my right hand are literally occupying different spaces in the air above my laptop.
My body had been sitting in front of my laptop while my mind has been elsewhere.
If you consider cut hair or nails to remain a part of 'you', I've been in two reasonably distant places.
I'm pretty sure none of these count for anything meaningful.
Bikerman
I think we can do even better
The atoms that make-up your left and right hand are comprised of tiny nuclei with electrons surrounding them. Those electrons are popping up hither and yon and are not just in two places at once, they are in an almost infinite number of places at once. This is not speculation, this is measurable.
And yet you still hear people say that they need some 'mystery' in their life, some woo-woo spiritual nonsense. If only they knew a bit of quantum physics.....but they prefer crystals, psychics and omnipotent human-shaped beings - how mundane....the real mystery and beauty is far more fabulous - but you have to study and you can't just make it up....
ocalhoun
Besides the possibilities listed so far, you could also travel back in time* within your own lifetime, which would mean that two different copies of you exist in different places at the same time...


*Generally regarded as a somewhat difficult feat.
Bikerman
Only if Relativity is wrong methinks. I'm not persuaded by the theoretical 'loopholes' that exist in the theory. Travelling forward in time is routine - we do it all the time. Backwards is different. A scientist never says never, but I'm not, so I'm going to say...nah!
Ankhanu
Bikerman wrote:
A scientist never says never, but I'm not, so I'm going to say...nah!


We might not say "never", but we'll certainly and readily say "probably not" if reality seems to point that way Wink
chasbeen
I suppose I meant that you were physically in one place but fully comscious in another space. Where bits fall off or zip off you does not count because the moment that happens the separated matter is no longer "you".
Bikerman
chasbeen wrote:
I suppose I meant that you were physically in one place but fully comscious in another space. Where bits fall off or zip off you does not count because the moment that happens the separated matter is no longer "you".

Wow...that's quite a statement. The bits of matter that are zipping off hither and yon are just about all of the material 'you'. Every electron and quark in your body....
deanhills
chasbeen wrote:
I suppose I meant that you were physically in one place but fully comscious in another space. Where bits fall off or zip off you does not count because the moment that happens the separated matter is no longer "you".
I know what you mean chasbeen. It would probably be difficult to explain if one has not had a personal experience of that. I'm however completely open for an explanation like that. I've heard quite a few people who have had near death experiences mention that but none in my circle, more like what I've read in the press and seen in movies.

From a different point of view I do feel as though I am in two different places. There's my body and there's my mind. Some people are more fully occupied in their bodies when they are active, others are less fully occupied in their bodies when they are in their minds most of the time. Something along the lines of living in the zone or in the moment. There are those who are living it completely and those who think more about it than living it. Bottomline, our thinking can get us in a state of disassociation with out bodies.
loremar
In terms of mind-body dualism, there is a belief where a person can have two or more souls. So it means that you can be in three or more places at the same time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_dualism
shivaghimire
Thinking of other place and sitting in one place didn't mean being a person in two places. Standing in border also doesn't mean of being a man in two places because the name of place and border is named by man, naturally, its a place not different place. So, a man never can be in two places at one time.
pirate
Lol how the hell am i supposed to know, it is something which is most likely impossible and will never happen so im not even going to go into the subject.
Josso
LOL there seems to be a definition issue.

Maybe, if I were able to exist in higher dimensions?? You mean litreally?

The other thing is out of body experiences, which a lot of people do get often when drifting off to sleep for a bit or close to waking up.
sonam
Today I am just go to visit future. My wife didn't see anything abnormal. My body is still sitting on computer. But gmail is ready for my moving and I cannot cheat it.

[link removed - too big for page
Moderator]


Like you can see yesterday (15.7.) is three day ago and today posts are two day ago. Cool

BTW always someone walk with every step is on two different place.

Sonam
cresvale
Is there any evidence? or it's just a joke.
Bikerman
Well, part of the problem is that 'you' is not defined.
What exactly is 'you' or 'me' ? Is it the body? But if it is, then do you become less 'you' if you loose an arm or leg?
Most of us have a picture of 'self' as the thing behind the eyes that watches and pulls the levers of the body - something in the brain but distinct from it. I would call it 'mind' whereas some religious people call it 'soul' or 'life-force'. If this is so then 'you' are a series of electro-chemical signals passing through the switching network which is the brain. If we take this to be true then it is surely possible in principle to 'upload' this into another switching network which is functionally identical to the brain - whether a silicon analogue or some other analogue. At that point would 'you' not exist in 2 places at once?
sonam
Quote:
If this is so then 'you' are a series of electro-chemical signals passing through the switching network which is the brain.


If this is true, we are signals. But, are we are independent signals or community signals? Who sends this signals?

On this point of view we have two ways:
Religious - God sends signals and in that case you cannot exist on two places at once because you haven't control of signals (except this is not God will).

Philosophical - I sends signals but in that case you are not signals (the same like you are not body). False identification. If you send signals then you can exist on two places at once but first you must find out who is this I who have control of all signals. Or shortly "Who am I?"

Sonam
Bikerman
Huh? I don't understand where God comes into this.
We know where the signals originate, how they are transmitted and roughly what they do. Invoking a God figure as the origin makes no more sense than invoking God to explain the mains electricity grid.
spinout
We have the 3 reich rune, or 3 land landmark... that is a stone pile I think. But if you have one foot in sweden, one in Norway and a hand in Finland you still got one limb left to claim you are beeing in three countries at the same time..
speeDemon
Sitting in school, I can experience this quite often... obviously not the kind of thing you're looking for, but still, I can literally miss out each and every thing that the teacher just said, and be thinking about just about anything else, even while I'm looking at the teacher's face.

I think it also has something to do with my senses dulling a bit. I mean, as I wear spectacles, and I know that my eyes don't exactly work perfectly anymore, whenever I look at just about anything, I feel like it's a dream and not real... it's really odd, but it does happen to me a lot. It's kindda like, the only difference for me between a dream and reality would be the fact that in reality, I can see things clearly, with all my senses working sharply, but in a dream, things basically just happen and in a blurry way, you just witness them... I guess I'm a bit off-topic, and most of you reading this are a bit confused, but it's hard to explain. So, coming back to the point, I can easily think about things related to just about anything else, like guitar playing, or something on television, or the future or anything, while staring at my teacher's face... Razz

And as far as out of body experiences go, well I don't think I've ever had any of those as such, but Deja vu is definitely something I experience (freakishly) a lot. I'll be in certain situations and I'd just stop doing everything for a moment, and try to recall any time when I was in that same situation, because I just know somehow that I've been in such a situation before... it scary at times...
mahirh
why not, An electron can be in unlimited places at once thanks to the quantum theory then why cant we. I have proof that quantum theory isnt limited to atoms and subatomic particles here
Bikerman
BAD source. The Daily Mail is not a source I would encourage anyone to use. In this case it looks like they have the gist of the story, but you can never trust the reporting.
Much better to go to a more reliable source for the story:
http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100317/full/news.2010.130.html

As for what this says about large objects being in quantum superposition - not a lot really. They have to cool the paddle down to temperatures where Bose Einstein Condensates start to appear. I can't really see that being possible for something like a human body...
mahirh
Bikerman wrote:

As for what this says about large objects being in quantum superposition - not a lot really. They have to cool the paddle down to temperatures where Bose Einstein Condensates start to appear. I can't really see that being possible for something like a human body...

the topic starter didn't say it has to be alive at all
Bikerman
Yes he did. Read the OP again.
sonam
Bikerman wrote:
Huh? I don't understand where God comes into this.
We know where the signals originate, how they are transmitted and roughly what they do. Invoking a God figure as the origin makes no more sense than invoking God to explain the mains electricity grid.


When I say God I don't think about Christianity, Buddist or any other God. For me God is an super intelligent energy what have control of anything. This energy can create or disturb anything, and of course it is present everywhere.

Neo in Matrix recognize on the end this supreme energy and in this moment he and energy are ones. In that moment Neo can create his body and mind on two places at ones.

Sonam
Bikerman
I don't know how to break this to you, so brace yourself...the Matrix was not based on a real story...it was made up..

'Super intelligent energy' is what we generally call 'woo-woo'.

If this 'energy' is 'everywhere' then it is, by definition 'everything' since there is no space in which anything else to 'be'.
sonam
Quote:
If this 'energy' is 'everywhere' then it is, by definition 'everything' since there is no space in which anything else to 'be'.


This is exactly what I want to say. We are not exist, we (all bodies and all world) are just product of energy. Our mind cannot accept this reality and we think we are body, mind, soul, etc. As long exist any identification with this world it is not at possible to break space and time and exist on two places at once. Only body-mind organism who goes beyond this limitations can product another body and insert it in another place.

Of course everyone when walk is on two places at ones (30-50cm app.) when is both foot at a ground. Wink

Sonam
Bikerman
We're not a 'product' of energy. In one sense we ARE energy - mass and energy are interchangable (e = mc^2).
If you are going to say that we have no real material existence then I'd like to know what I'm actually doing now. I THINK I am reading a book. I can quote parts of the book. Other people who have read this book will agree with me on the subject and broad content.
Is this just delusion? If so it would seem that everyone has common delusions about most of the universe - which seems very odd.
sonam
Quote:
We're not a 'product' of energy. In one sense we ARE energy - mass and energy are interchangable (e = mc^2).


You are right 'product' is wrong term. We are energy.

Quote:
If you are going to say that we have no real material existence then I'd like to know what I'm actually doing now.


Observing.

Sonam
Bikerman
One cannot observe without the means to do so. That means some sensory apparatus.
sonam
Bikerman wrote:
One cannot observe without the means to do so. That means some sensory apparatus.


As long as energy exist and sensory exist. The death body also have sensory. Maybe we cannot see this with our eyes but energy is doing their job and destroy body.

Everything in this cosmos, in every millisecond, is moving and change from one to another state or energy. I believe some body-mind organism can break limitations and get space-less and timeless power. What this body-mind organism need for this I don't know, but I think they need some additional power from somewhere (we can say from woo-woo or God or whatever) and detach from body and mind.

Sonam
Bikerman
This isn't philosophy - it's just a statement of what you believe, with no evidence or reasoning to back it up. It is incoherent nonsense.
sonam
Quote:
This isn't philosophy.


Ok, never mind. If we are going back on topic title I can say from my point of view:
Someone can produce body-mind organism on two different places at once and break time and space limits.

Sonam
Bikerman
sonam wrote:
Quote:
This isn't philosophy.


Ok, never mind. If we are going back on topic title I can say from my point of view:
Someone can produce body-mind organism on two different places at once and break time and space limits.

Sonam
Again this is incoherent. There is no reason to suppose that anyone can do any such thing. No evidence, no reasoning, no logic, just blind assertion....One might as well say 'I believe that the true King of England is a 60ft Spider called Cecil'....
sonam
Quote:
No evidence


I have some evidence and real stories but only for my self. Sorry.

Sonam
Bikerman
Yep, and I've got evidence for Cecil.
When I was a student Cecil appeared to me - I remember it quite distinctly. I'd just had some mushroom soup for my tea and there he was, large as life. He explained that he was the real King of England and is just waiting until the current Queen dies before moving-in to Buck-House. I've even got proof - Cecil knitted me a jumper before he went.
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
Yep, and I've got evidence for Cecil.
When I was a student Cecil appeared to me - I remember it quite distinctly. I'd just had some mushroom soup for my tea and there he was, large as life. He explained that he was the real King of England and is just waiting until the current Queen dies before moving-in to Buck-House. I've even got proof - Cecil knitted me a jumper before he went.

Rolling Eyes
While personal experience usually isn't very good for convincing others of anything, it can be a valid and important type of evidence for one's own personal beliefs.

If the invisible pink unicorn revealed herself to me, it would change my personal beliefs, even if I couldn't possibly prove it to anybody else.
(Though I would tend to doubt my own senses a lot more if I happened to be under the influence of hallucinogens at the time.)
Bikerman
But what I'm saying is that we should question our own experience whenever it is telling us something extraordinary.
I can show you numerous experiments demonstrating just how bad we are at perceiving, remembering and recalling events. Given that we KNOW this to be true, it is rational to question ones own perceptions where they apparently show extraordinary events.
bukaida
According to the law of physics, you cannot. Thats what the basic law of quantum mechanics states(Heisenberg uncertainty principle ). However it doesnot take consideration of human mind as object.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
Bikerman
bukaida wrote:
According to the law of physics, you cannot. Thats what the basic law of quantum mechanics states(Heisenberg uncertainty principle ). However it doesnot take consideration of human mind as object.

The uncertainty principle doesn't say anything about being in two places at one time. In fact quantum physics allows two places at once.
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
Given that we KNOW this to be true, it is rational to question ones own perceptions where they apparently show extraordinary events.

Question, yes, everything should be questioned. -- especially the extraordinary.
Discard automatically, no.
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