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The evil of atheism





Ankhanu
Avoiding doing work that I actually need to do, I was once again poking around youtube. I came across a video favorited by a user I follow that was uploaded yesterday; the video is a short personal essay about atheism that touches on several key points that I've seen mirrored in many, many other modern faithless atheists. The author is clearly spoken and touches upon some of the richness of experience within a naturalistic framework, and the preposterousness of inserting the need for deities.



While I do recognize the lack of any form of cohesiveness, organization or other common themes withing "atheism" (It really isn't an "ism"), the content of the video does seem pretty relevant to a general modern atheist mindset and may help some of our theist friends here understand that we're not all angry with God, that we're not sad and living lives lacking fulfillment, wonder, joy or even reverence.
SonLight
Thank you for sharing that. It is indeed a wonderful and awe-inspiring world we live in (even though some parts of it are also ugly [edit: the world, not the video]). I see many of the same sights and share many of the same thoughts described in this excellent video.

I do imagine my life is richer because (I think) I have free will. Some of my co-religionists do believe there is no such thing as free will however. I like to be impressed by the "why" questions as well as the "how". I think our human nature wants to find its place in the universe. I have found my peace with the universe and my relationship to it; according to this video many atheists have found theirs also.
deanhills
@Ankhanu. I’d be very curious to know what your objective is with naming the topic of the discussion “The Evil of Atheism”? When the subject of the YouTube show is “Atheism”.

SonLight's post is great, it says it as it really is. When I see YouTube shows by Hitchens I get a sense of something really great as well, they inspire and motivate me. I don't get a sense of evil at all. That can only be in the eye of the beholder.
SonLight
@Dean, I understand the OP to have an implied question mark, something like "Is Atheism evil?". I like the video a lot, as it certainly shows the positive side of Atheism. It is an assumption of most theists that atheists have serious trouble finding meaning in life.

Certainly the majority of people on Earth find great comfort in some kind of religious belief. From an atheistic point of view, this can be considered a weakness -- only the strong can handle reality without hallucinogens. One Atheist (unfortunately one of the evil ones) called religion "The Opiate of the Masses".

I recommend reading Neitzsche's "Also Sprach Zarathustra" if you want to see a sample of the type of strength involved.
liljp617
SonLight wrote:
One Atheist (unfortunately one of the evil ones) called religion "The Opiate of the Masses".


Who might you be referring to?
Bikerman
Why would Marx be evil? He was a philosopher of tremendous importance. Aren't you simply blaming him for things that happened in his name, long after his death?
Afaceinthematrix
I've been following Adromedoswake for about three years. I discovered him back in 2008 - around the same time I found Thunderf00t, The Amazing Atheist, and a bunch of other people. I used to be quite active in the youtube atheist community but barely watch videos these days because I both lost interest and I don't have much time these days. I'm in my early 20's and I've been an atheist for about 4 years. So back then, it was newer, fresher, and people like Adromedoswake and Thunderf00t really helped me feel comfortable with my new philosophical ideas. However, four years later, it has basically just become a normal part of my life and I couldn't imagine believing in a deity anymore. It just seems natural not to. I think that's what really made me lose interest in religion (which is why I rarely post in philosophy and religion anymore).

On another note, I love how he talks about how you do not need religion to be moral. It always pisses me off when people say otherwise. In one of the related videos, there's a video about an atheist who raised money for a church that was vandelized in the name of the flying spaghetti monster. He said that an atheist made the rest of atheists look bad and so he wanted to correct it. They also interviewed the pastor of that church and he seemed pretty cool. He agreed that you get both good atheists and bad atheists in the same way that you get good Christians and bad Christians. That statement made me respect him quite a bit...
deanhills
SonLight wrote:
I recommend reading Neitzsche's "Also Sprach Zarathustra" if you want to see a sample of the type of strength involved.
Thanks for the tip. I had a look at "Also Sprach Zarathustra" years ago as part of a course in German literature, but need to refresh my mind on it. Wonder what my impressions would be of it today. One thing I find is that some of the meaning in German completely changes in English. I'm going to try and find a German text just for the fun of it to see whether I can still read German! And then maybe read it in English too.
Very Happy
Bluedoll
Quote:
@Ankhanu. I’d be very curious to know what your objective is with naming the topic of the discussion “The Evil of Atheism”? When the subject of the YouTube show is “Atheism”. - Deanhills


I have to ask this same question myself. Could it be that Ankhanu feels a sarcastic urge to leave the atheism camp and therefore is considering it evil despite a promotional video? What happens in that case? Is it called x communication? The x people? Is there an atheist pope that waves a stick in the air and says, “be gone, you, that goes to the other side!”

Quote:
On another note, I love how he talks about how you do not need religion to be moral. It always pisses me off when people say otherwise. - Afaceinthematrix
Who says you need religion to be moral? I know I never have. Have I? I suppose there are a lot of people that say a lot of things about everything including something like that. I do not think it is true though. I would never put someone down because of their belief. If I suggested they were doing something immoral it would be based on their actions or something terrible they saying. I might describe someone as a bad little boy with a dirty little mouth but is that immoral? In any case, I think people are people and should be credited for what they achieve and what they say. Whether they are atheists or Christians or Jewish or lawyers, yes even lawyers, they are human beings after all. Atheism on the other hand is a thing, a completely different thing than say science? You think maybe ankhanu is right and it is actually evil as he might be suggesting?

Laughing



One serious question for the thread, on, the preposterousness of insisting there is a need for ______??? Does atheism ever say anything besides there is a counter claim against something else? I mean what does it actually say, 'anything' itself or about itself? I do not mean a particular person but the identicalness of atheism. That might be more effective at judging atheism rather than judging people. We can always find good and bad people everywhere but things can be discussed with impartiality.
Afaceinthematrix
Bluedoll wrote:
Who says you need religion to be moral? I know I never have. Have I?


I don't know if you have which is why I didn't mention your name. But quite a few people have and it is a popular misconception... VERY popular misconception...
Ankhanu
SonLight wrote:
Thank you for sharing that. It is indeed a wonderful and awe-inspiring world we live in (even though some parts of it are also ugly [edit: the world, not the video]). I see many of the same sights and share many of the same thoughts described in this excellent video.

Glad you enjoyed it.
Ya know, in many ways, even the ugly within the world has its own beauty. It kind of depends on how you look at it.

SonLight wrote:
I have found my peace with the universe and my relationship to it; according to this video many atheists have found theirs also.

Indeed so! Peace is, ultimately, a personal endeavour. Religion often does, but need not apply.

deanhills wrote:
@Ankhanu. I’d be very curious to know what your objective is with naming the topic of the discussion “The Evil of Atheism”? When the subject of the YouTube show is “Atheism”.

Seems like a clear use of irony to me. Given the context of the actual post, and the perspective of the reader/viewer I suppose it could either be chuckle-worthy, or provocative.

Afaceinthematrix wrote:
I've been following Adromedoswake for about three years. I discovered him back in 2008 - around the same time I found Thunderf00t, The Amazing Atheist, and a bunch of other people. I used to be quite active in the youtube atheist community but barely watch videos these days because I both lost interest and I don't have much time these days. I'm in my early 20's and I've been an atheist for about 4 years. So back then, it was newer, fresher, and people like Adromedoswake and Thunderf00t really helped me feel comfortable with my new philosophical ideas. However, four years later, it has basically just become a normal part of my life and I couldn't imagine believing in a deity anymore. It just seems natural not to. I think that's what really made me lose interest in religion (which is why I rarely post in philosophy and religion anymore).

This is actually the first thing I've seen from him. I became atheist in my pre-teens, toyed with neo-paganism and other spiritual avenues in my teens and early twenties and returned back to the atheist home base several years ago, but only recently (in the past year) bothered watching videos on it on youtube. Now they appear in my recommended feed all the time Razz

Afaceinthematrix wrote:
On another note, I love how he talks about how you do not need religion to be moral. It always pisses me off when people say otherwise. In one of the related videos, there's a video about an atheist who raised money for a church that was vandelized in the name of the flying spaghetti monster. He said that an atheist made the rest of atheists look bad and so he wanted to correct it. They also interviewed the pastor of that church and he seemed pretty cool. He agreed that you get both good atheists and bad atheists in the same way that you get good Christians and bad Christians. That statement made me respect him quite a bit...

Yeah, the morality from on high thing is an interesting one... especially when you actually look at the moral guides that the divine sources actually provide. Often they are utterly vile, we just ignore those bits in modern times and pay attention to the more humanistic values presented and pretend that that's all there is.
That pastor seems to have his head on straight, that's great to see Smile I've encountered a couple like him through the years, and they're fascinating people with interesting perspectives.
dan751
Hehe, I like Dane Cooks theory on atheism, I think this is hilarious! :



The atheist in the video reminds me far too much of someone I know on frihost.
Hello_World
Nice you tube videos.

Including dans one. Wow that is the first time I have ever heard a funny Christian skit. It is so funny because it is so true. Cudos for it lol.

http://youtu.be/HhGuXCuDb1U

that is how I feel on athiesm and life...
gandalfthegrey
I don't think entitling your post 'The Evils of Atheism' reflects the Christian love you proclaim to have for others. You can engage in a discussion about atheism without resorting to such a lack of respect for others and their beliefs.

Don't you realize Ankhanu that Fundamentalist/Conservative Christians attitudes, beliefs and behaviours only drive people away from Christianity?


Ankhanu
gandalfthegrey wrote:
I don't think entitling your post 'The Evils of Atheism' reflects the Christian love you proclaim to have for others. You can engage in a discussion about atheism without resorting to such a lack of respect for others and their beliefs.

Don't you realize Ankhanu that Fundamentalist/Conservative Christians attitudes, beliefs and behaviours only drive people away from Christianity?


...




...




...



... What?!?
loremar
@Ankhanu. I didn't know you're a devout Christian. loooool.
Ankhanu
This... this changes everything.
lightwate
This might be off-topic, (i hope not) but I don't get why atheists want other people to share in their beliefs. I mean, I understand Christians spreading the word, because they believe in wanting others be saved too. But what's there to lose someone you know is not an Atheist?
Ankhanu
Rationality?
I really don't mind people holding beliefs, in general, but I really do hold rational thought in high regard. I also like consistency to a certain degree, i.e. using the same standards of rationality that you do to most aspects of life to the questions of origins and the nature of reality. There ARE rational religious people, lots of them, but they rarely apply their rationality or skepticism to the questions of their religion... it's a kinda interesting paradigm, but can also lead down some dangerous paths.
Peterssidan
Ankhanu, Great video, much better than I expected. Before I read the whole topic I was a bit unsure weather you was a atheist or not. Your avatar even have two crosses so it's not strange that people thinks you are a Christian. You dress like the other side and make them look stupid. That's a dirty trick Wink

lightwate wrote:
This might be off-topic, (i hope not) but I don't get why atheists want other people to share in their beliefs. I mean, I understand Christians spreading the word, because they believe in wanting others be saved too. But what's there to lose someone you know is not an Atheist?

Most of all I feel it's wrong that people don't believe in the truth. It also feels wrong that people get trapped in religion and their way of life against their will. I can imagine it's not easy for some people that don't have strong belief to actually say that when his whole family is Christians. Even harder with some other religions. I also feel the danger that religion will affect laws and that way affect me.
I think it's natural for people to try to convert other people to their way of life. I have noticed this with myself and other people. In the computer world it can be about the what operating systems to use, programs, programming languages and what the best way to format your code is.
I'm not saying it's a good thing to convert people. I'm just saying it's easily happens that way.
deanhills
Peterssidan wrote:
I'm not saying it's a good thing to convert people. I'm just saying it's easily happens that way.
Good point. Persuading someone to a point of view that they feel forced to follow, or compromise on. I think behind it all is the need for power and control over others.

Microsoft would be a good example. Large Institutions may be forced to upgrade to the next operating system, change all of their hard ware, install the latest MS Office, even when they don't really need to.
Ankhanu
Peterssidan wrote:
Ankhanu, Great video, much better than I expected

Likewise. I don't tend to expect very much from these sorts of videos, but this one was pretty decent.

Peterssidan wrote:
Before I read the whole topic I was a bit unsure weather you was a atheist or not. Your avatar even have two crosses so it's not strange that people thinks you are a Christian. You dress like the other side and make them look stupid. That's a dirty trick Wink


That's actually a modified ankh (Eqyptian symbol of life and immortality); though it does include Christian iconography within it too (e.g. the vertical part rising into the loop forming a cross within the ankh). It's a sect symbol from the roleplaying game Vampire the Masquerade, which does make heavy use of adapted Biblical mythos within the setting and story.
Peterssidan
Interesting, so that's where your name comes from. What's the meaning of the anu part of your name?
Ankhanu
It's a name I made up around 1996 to use as an IRC nickname. I phonetically combined "ankh" and "inconnu" into "Ankhanu" (Ank ah-new); Ankh - symbol of the life essence/immortality, inconnu - French meaning hidden or shrouded... I suppose the name could be read to mean "hidden life" or something similar (but it is completely invented Razz )
bukaida
By defination "One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods" is an atheist.
However it doesnot make anyone evil simply because he doesnot believe in god. It is not simple binary logic-- Either you are on God's side or You are on Evil side.
Ankhanu
bukaida wrote:
By defination "One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods" is an atheist.
However it doesnot make anyone evil simply because he doesnot believe in god. It is not simple binary logic-- Either you are on God's side or You are on Evil side.


Certain FriHost forum users believe it is,indeed binary... But I ink you've missed the point of the thread.
AdmiralCrunch
Bikerman wrote:
Why would Marx be evil? He was a philosopher of tremendous importance. Aren't you simply blaming him for things that happened in his name, long after his death?


Are you kidding me ?!?!?!?!?!
Read his bullcrap!!! Marx was one of the first who officially said, theres a need for a genocide !!!!

His wohle bullshit was about his these, you have to kill the leading 10% of the society.. best teachers, best doctors, best lawyers, best scientist, etc.. just then you'll be able to form a new society...

Marx an Engels were big bastards and you can be sure they burn in hell!
AdmiralCrunch
Atheists are not evel per'se .. but atheism is... because it's destructive
ocalhoun
AdmiralCrunch wrote:
but atheism is... because it's destructive

How so?
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