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What does the bible say about the end?





Bluedoll
I believe the accurate knowledge of truth comes from the bible. Yes, there are certainly misconceptions and even more certainly nay sawyers claiming to have superior intelligence that use sarcasm like it was candy but I do not pay much attention to this because it is only ignorance at play. The truth is when one wants to seriously understand something it is best to have a multitude of sources certainly but only one source for spiritual understanding is really required. I most certainly have faith in what we need to know can be based only on the bible.

It is no secret, the end, is being talked about considerably in our society and much of it is false. The truth about the end, Armageddon or the last days can be found in the bible for those that wish to know the truth. The end is a spiritual war and on earth we will most certainly feel it religiously.

Quote:
2 Peter 3:3-4 (GOD’S WORD Translation)
First, you must understand this: In the last days people who follow their own desires will appear. These disrespectful people will ridicule God’s promise by saying, “What’s happened to his promise to return? Ever since our ancestors died, everything continues as it did from the beginning of the world.”

2 Timothy 3:1-4 (GOD’S WORD Translation)
You must understand this: In the last days there will be violent periods of time. People will be selfish and love money. They will brag, be arrogant, and use abusive language. They will curse their parents, show no gratitude, have no respect for what is holy, and lack normal affection for their families. They will refuse to make peace with anyone. They will be slanderous, lack self-control, be brutal, and have no love for what is good. They will be traitors. They will be reckless and conceited. They will love pleasure rather than God.


There is a force in the world today that is negative regarding the messages we can read from the bible. The reason for this might be many but the bible does say satan is involved. God is a force for good but just like Newton’s law in science there is a force in the opposite direction. The bible clearly defines what the end is and it gives a clear message that there will be a positive change in spirituality that will bring good things to the world despite the negativity against good.
saratdear
Bluedoll wrote:
I believe the accurate knowledge of truth comes from the bible.

Why would the Bible be any more true about the end of the world than what my religion says, i.e Hinduism?
Bluedoll
saratdear wrote:
Bluedoll wrote:
I believe the accurate knowledge of truth comes from the bible.

Why would the Bible be any more true about the end of the world than what my religion says, i.e Hinduism?
This is an excellent question and I will be honest and say that I know very so very little of Hinduism but think it would make a very good thread.

Unlike someone that takes delight in attacking and denouncing other peoples faith, I only want to show respect for anyone’s religion, so if I write something here that is not correct, please, have no hesitation to indicate it.

The answer to your question regarding why the bible is a source of truth is not an answer of why this book is right but this one is wrong. No. God gives nourishment. As the source, God provides and has provided the bible but I will not say that God does not do anything other than providing the bible, no of course not.

As I understand this, Sikhs consider the Granth as a spiritual guide for all mankind. Its hymns and teachings are called Gurbani or "Word of the guru" and sometimes Guru ki bani or "Word of God". I believe that the bible is the word of God but in saying this I do not mean that the Guru ki bani is not. I believe God can display his work in many places, for that matter, even in nature and we can learn and find a spiritual connection in everything created by God.

Because Sikh's life is to seek union with God then who am I to question what God inspires?

For me the bible is a source of understanding and a connection to God because these words have been given to me, for you, I can only assume though we may have different beliefs (all peoples do) and we do share as well similar values.
saratdear
To be frank, I don't know what any holy book in Hinduism says about the end of the world (or whether it mentions it at all) Smile

Different people may have different beliefs but what I think is that all of us worship the same God by different names. To say one religion or the other is more true is impossible.
Bluedoll
saratdear wrote:
To be frank, I don't know what any holy book in Hinduism says about the end of the world (or whether it mentions it at all) Smile

Different people may have different beliefs but what I think is that all of us worship the same God by different names. To say one religion or the other is more true is impossible.
I agree, disputing over religion is unproductive. So you understand what I mean I am not associating any religion to the thread, just the bible. I am also not thinking as more true or less true but as true or untrue though we can think in either way.
As for the topic ‘the end’ we hear a lot about this from all different sources like from the movies from Hollywood for example or as predictions for the earth by writers. It is not only the religions of the world that do talk about it. Some of what we can hear is false or fatalistic. God provides us with hope and security.
deanhills
saratdear wrote:
Different people may have different beliefs but what I think is that all of us worship the same God by different names. To say one religion or the other is more true is impossible.
Hmmm .... I'm not so sure that is correct. I think even among Christians different people have a completely different perspective of God. Some see God with human attributes, others see God as completely omnipotent, etc. etc.

I do agree however that there can be a common denominator among religions where someone who is an Islamist may have the same view of God as someone who is a Christian. I've bumped into a few Islamists who believe that we are praying to one and the same God. I like discussions like these where Islamists cite similarities with Christianity, as that is focusing on what we share in common. Always a nice feeling when there is a bonding opportunity between different cultures and religions.
Ankhanu
I notice a lot of the end times prophecies relate to increasing violence and conflict... and people point to today's conflicts as evidence that things are getting out of hand. But, what about the fact that violence, war and conflict are actually declining? How does this fit in with the doomsday prophecies?



Both vids are the same idea, but one's much shorter than the other Wink

deanhills wrote:
I do agree however that there can be a common denominator among religions where someone who is an Islamist may have the same view of God as someone who is a Christian. I've bumped into a few Islamists who believe that we are praying to one and the same God.


I find this VERY interesting; the last sentence in the quote in particular.
I was under the impression that people of the Abrahamic religions, whether the originals (Jews), revisionists (Christians), or further revisionists (Muslims/Islamics), realized that they were all working with the same god under different names and personalities. That there is a disconnect between these groups and the fact that they share a god figure is really interesting. I wonder where this comes from? They're all working from the same original story of God and recognize one another's prophets (to greater or lesser degree)... how could one not recognize that YEHWEH, God/The Lord/Jehova/Allah/etc. are the same idea with different interpretations? In all cases, they're referring back to the same being that spoke to Abraham...

Yeah, there are a lot of similarities among all the religions, Abrahamic and otherwise, and they can lead to some interesting chats. The vast differences are also a source of good discussion.
Bluedoll
It is not described in the bible as doomsday unless someone has put this spin on it. Also remember that war and conflict is relating to a religious war in this thread and not a war conducted by men. This is also, what the bible is referring to when it talks about ‘last days’. However, warfare carried on by men is always possible and war is talked about frequently in the bible. For this discussion I want to focus on the topic concerning biblical aspects.

The bible does say that a steady decline in war that will lead to peace but it is a false peace until a massive eruption. My own personal reflection on this and my personal hope is mankind might be spared all the hostilities from physical war when a final spiritual war takes place but this might not be the case. Crying or Very sad

Quote:
1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
About the times and the seasons brothers, you do not need anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know very well that the Day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. When they say, "Peace and security," then sudden destruction comes on them, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

The thief here by the way of illustration not an actual person. Think of this as you were sleeping when things are quiet in the night and something happened without you being actually aware of it. – “like a thief in the night”
Ankhanu
The scenes that Revelations, etc. describe some pretty terrible scenes... but that's an interesting perspective. Thanks for it. It's not one I've really encountered before and is some food for thought.

Bluedoll wrote:
Also remember that war and conflict is relating to a religious war in this thread and not a war conducted by men.


This one, I'm pretty curious about. Are you willing to elaborate on this? i.e. if not a war of men, is it to be conducted by angels/demons; directly by God vs. Satan, something else?
Bluedoll
Sad These are my personal thoughts. Mankind is arrogant. Everything that happens in the universe men seem to think it is about them. They once believed the world was flat well today I think a lot of men feel that the earth is the center of the universe and everything revolves around it. Every purpose, every act, every decision that gets made has to do with them, because of them. This is not to say that mankind is not cared for by God but in connection with the universe, not very important if you use the word in this context. Yes, this is an event for angels although the world will certainly reflect a change. The bible was written by men for men and the words it holds are inspired by God and angels for our benefit. We know it is difficult for us to understand all the world events as they unfold, so it stands to reason even more difficult to understand a heavenly abode...
Quote:
Luke 12:29-31 (GOD’S WORD Translation)

“Don’t concern yourself about what you will eat or drink, and quit worrying about these things. Everyone in the world is concerned about these things, but your Father knows you need them. Rather, be concerned about his kingdom. Then these things will be provided for you.


...the things that concern us are the things on earth where we exist. There can be better world conditions (for all of mankind) than we now experience if religion was less a burden and more of a blessing. The end is all about change and it will give us a better understanding of our spirituality. Smile
deanhills
You've got good points Bluedoll. We are indeed arrogant. And we do have this idea that we are the centre of the universe. Whereas we don't even amount to a grain in the sand.
Bikerman
Err...scientists know fine well that we are pretty insignificant - it was science that showed us just HOW insignificant.
It is religion that places mankind centre-stage, not science. It is the Christian who believes that the whole universe was created by their God as a home for us.
How arrogant and self-centred is THAT ?
Bluedoll
deanhills wrote:
You've got good points Bluedoll. We are indeed arrogant. And we do have this idea that we are the centre of the universe. Whereas we don't even amount to a grain in the sand.
Thank you Dean, I appreciate it and encouraged. As for the points themself I could never credit for them (bible) as it is the work of our loving God that gives us so much even though we do not deserve it. Even mankind I think, here only because of creation has and will continue to have attention because of love. Very Happy
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
Err...scientists know fine well that we are pretty insignificant - it was science that showed us just HOW insignificant.
It is religion that places mankind centre-stage, not science. It is the Christian who believes that the whole universe was created by their God as a home for us.
How arrogant and self-centred is THAT ?
As far as I know quite a large percentage of scientists are also religious. So perhaps your theory is not really that solid?
Bikerman
deanhills wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
Err...scientists know fine well that we are pretty insignificant - it was science that showed us just HOW insignificant.
It is religion that places mankind centre-stage, not science. It is the Christian who believes that the whole universe was created by their God as a home for us.
How arrogant and self-centred is THAT ?
As far as I know quite a large percentage of scientists are also religious. So perhaps your theory is not really that solid?

Quite a large percentage? This is covered in the sticky in the p&r forum. If scientists who are also religious choose to believe Christian doctrine then that is not their science speaking. Science is quite clear about our position in the universe.
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
deanhills wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
Err...scientists know fine well that we are pretty insignificant - it was science that showed us just HOW insignificant.
It is religion that places mankind centre-stage, not science. It is the Christian who believes that the whole universe was created by their God as a home for us.
How arrogant and self-centred is THAT ?
As far as I know quite a large percentage of scientists are also religious. So perhaps your theory is not really that solid?

Quite a large percentage? This is covered in the sticky in the p&r forum. If scientists who are also religious choose to believe Christian doctrine then that is not their science speaking. Science is quite clear about our position in the universe.
Well then there has to be a pretty BIG conflict in a guy who is a scientist as well as religious. Unless you are making a religion out of science? Twisted Evil
dan751
deanhills wrote:
Well then there has to be a pretty BIG conflict in a guy who is a scientist as well as religious. Unless you are making a religion out of science? Twisted Evil

Isn't that called Scientology? Could be of the same title, but not the same as the current Scientology. Wink
deanhills
dan751 wrote:
deanhills wrote:
Well then there has to be a pretty BIG conflict in a guy who is a scientist as well as religious. Unless you are making a religion out of science? Twisted Evil

Isn't that called Scientology? Could be of the same title, but not the same as the current Scientology. Wink
Oh right .... I've completely forgotten about scientology ..... that does give some food for thought Think Laughing
Bluedoll
Although it may be interesting, that scientology (start a post about scientology?) has a belief that humans have hidden abilities which can be unlocked regarding their spirituality, I would like to bring this topic back on track if permitted.

This topic is not another atheist versus Christian, or science versus religion debate in which we have become so programmed to accept as the only subject available to us. The purpose of the thread is to provide another perspective as to what we have become the standard in the forum. What this is referring is there were posts in the past, that have started topics for the purpose of discussing ‘the end of the world”. These post have usually brought two kinds of posts, either a suggestion that a catastrophe is underway or a complete ridicule of the suggestion that the anyone believing in such a thing is a mental case and not to be taken seriously.

What is the ‘end’? What does it mean? Why should we take this seriously? Are we involved? How will this effect or not affect mankind? ...are a few questions that might be applied to the op. Please, keep in mind that the op is considering what the bible states.
Bikerman
deanhills wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
deanhills wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
Err...scientists know fine well that we are pretty insignificant - it was science that showed us just HOW insignificant.
It is religion that places mankind centre-stage, not science. It is the Christian who believes that the whole universe was created by their God as a home for us.
How arrogant and self-centred is THAT ?
As far as I know quite a large percentage of scientists are also religious. So perhaps your theory is not really that solid?

Quite a large percentage? This is covered in the sticky in the p&r forum. If scientists who are also religious choose to believe Christian doctrine then that is not their science speaking. Science is quite clear about our position in the universe.
Well then there has to be a pretty BIG conflict in a guy who is a scientist as well as religious. Unless you are making a religion out of science? Twisted Evil

Complete non-sequitur. A person can be a Deist and a scientist with no conflict at all. It is only when the religion concerned makes specific statements about the universe that can be tested that a possible conflict arises - so any scientist who is, for example, a creationist certainly DOES have a big conflict.

This is, of course, entirely irrelevant to the point, which was that thinking we are important is not a scientific view but it IS most certainly a religious view. According to most religions, the whole point of the universe is US. For example, in Christian theology the universe is put here simply for the benefit of Adam and Eve.
Bluedoll said
Quote:
Mankind is arrogant. Everything that happens in the universe men seem to think it is about them.
Anyone who adopts a purely rationalist viewpoint CANNOT think this, it is only religion which preaches that Mankind is special, and our place in the universe is central. Science says rather the opposite.
Bluedoll
@Deanhills
I suggest starting another thread if you would wish to discuss making a religion out of science. I do agree with your comment but I want to remind you again that this thread is not what science says about the universe but what the bible says about “the end” and what this means. I hope Jack, sorry, I meant Dean, Laughing that you know this thread is open for a discussion on the truths in the bible.



Quote:
Ephesians 1:19-21 (Contemporary English Version)
I want you to know about the great and mighty power that God has for us followers. It is the same wonderful power he used when he raised Christ from death and let him sit at his right side in heaven. There Christ rules over all forces, authorities, powers, and rulers. He rules over all beings in this world and will rule in the future world as well.

Ephesians 1:19-21 (Amplified Bible)
And [so that you can know and understand] what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us who believe, as demonstrated in the working of His mighty strength,
Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His [own] right hand in the heavenly [places],
Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named [above every title that can be conferred], not only in this age and in this world, but also in the age and the world which are to come.

Ephesians 1:19-21 (Good News Translation)
and how very great is his power at work in us who believe. This power working in us is the same as the mighty strength which he used when he raised Christ from death and seated him at his right side in the heavenly world. Christ rules there above all heavenly rulers, authorities, powers, and lords; he has a title superior to all titles of authority in this world and in the next.

Ephesians 1:19-21 (New International Version)
and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
Complete non-sequitur. A person can be a Deist and a scientist with no conflict at all. It is only when the religion concerned makes specific statements about the universe that can be tested that a possible conflict arises - so any scientist who is, for example, a creationist certainly DOES have a big conflict.
Not the ones I know. And just as well, because otherwise we would have had seriously conflicted scientists around.
Bikerman wrote:
In Christian theology the universe is put here simply for the benefit of Adam and Eve.
Not all Christians believe that.
Bluedoll wrote:
@Deanhills
I suggest starting another thread if you would wish to discuss making a religion out of science. I do agree with your comment but I want to remind you again that this thread is not what science says about the universe but what the bible says about “the end” and what this means. I hope Jack, sorry, I meant Dean, Laughing that you know this thread is open for a discussion on the truths in the bible.
Thanks for the tip!

By the way, I'm not sure what the quotes below have to do with the topic. I thought the topic was about the end and the quotes are not about the end. Maybe you could explain what this end is about? As the quotes below are referring to a hereafter. Not an ending of anything. Smile

Quote:
Ephesians 1:19-21 (Contemporary English Version)
I want you to know about the great and mighty power that God has for us followers. It is the same wonderful power he used when he raised Christ from death and let him sit at his right side in heaven. There Christ rules over all forces, authorities, powers, and rulers. He rules over all beings in this world and will rule in the future world as well.

Ephesians 1:19-21 (Amplified Bible)
And [so that you can know and understand] what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us who believe, as demonstrated in the working of His mighty strength,
Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His [own] right hand in the heavenly [places],
Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named [above every title that can be conferred], not only in this age and in this world, but also in the age and the world which are to come.

Ephesians 1:19-21 (Good News Translation)
and how very great is his power at work in us who believe. This power working in us is the same as the mighty strength which he used when he raised Christ from death and seated him at his right side in the heavenly world. Christ rules there above all heavenly rulers, authorities, powers, and lords; he has a title superior to all titles of authority in this world and in the next.

Ephesians 1:19-21 (New International Version)
and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.
Bluedoll
deanhills wrote:
Thanks for the tip!

By the way, I'm not sure what the quotes below have to do with the topic. I thought the topic was about the end and the quotes are not about the end. Maybe you could explain what this end is about? As the quotes below are referring to a hereafter. Not an ending of anything.
Now that could mean to some people, the hereafter, yes. The bible does talk to many about many things. Keep in mind the prayer to “let your kingdom come”.

All through the bible there is talk about Christ’s return, God’s kingdom and an end to all the horrible things that afflict mankind such as war. The end is a promise by God to bring his blessing to mankind like making an end of war and a beginning of real peace.

It is not just a story. There is of course an opposition to peace and a message of peace. The bible does gives a promise which will be fulfilled by God. Turning our back on God is a bad choice but it is a choice each person can make.
dan751
What I understand from the Bible's message of the end is that God is going to bring an end to all the evil, pain and suffering in the world. In other words, I think of it like a new beginning.
Bikerman
Depends which bit you read:
Quote:
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2 Peter 3
That sounds pretty final....
deanhills
dan751 wrote:
What I understand from the Bible's message of the end is that God is going to bring an end to all the evil, pain and suffering in the world. In other words, I think of it like a new beginning.
Welcome back! First I was apprehensive entering the "Lion's Den" (I've been pausing most of the day), and then I saw your Avatar ..... ! OK, I can breathe more freely now.

I recall Ocalhoun saying something similar in a 2012 type thread (can't remember exactly where), that everyone is thinking in terms of endings as a dooms day kind of thing, whereas it could be the beginning of something truly great.

Very Happy
Bikerman
So what is the biblical source for this? Or is it just some personal wish?
dan751
Thanks deanhills, has been a little while. I enjoy these little discussions we all have. Smile Breathe easily my friend.

Bikerman wrote:
Depends which bit you read:
Quote:
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2 Peter 3
That sounds pretty final....

Definitely does sound pretty final, for the earth and the stars as we know it. It doesn't necessarily mean that people (rather their spirits) are going anywhere/coming to an end. And so does this sound pretty final:
Revelation 21:4-5 wrote:
New International Version (©1984)
4.He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." 5.He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

That's my proof right there that it's more than just a personal wish, rather, a promise. The way I see it, the Bible's foretelling of the end, is a 2 fold message: Yes, there will be a great final war, in which there will be much destruction, possibly even the end of the physical universe, and on the other hand, there will the start something great and wonderful. Sounds like a new beginning to me, and a beautiful one at that. Smile
Bikerman
A war in which 75% of humanity is killed. Sounds absolutely horrendous to me....
dan751
Bikerman wrote:
A war in which 75% of humanity is killed. Sounds absolutely horrendous to me....

And yet, with God, anything is possible, including defeating death. Which he proved with Christ's resurrection..
Still sound horrendous?
loremar
I find poisoning people for 5 months signs of being very psychopathic and malevolent. Why does he have to that? Why not just put them straight to hell?
Bikerman
dan751 wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
A war in which 75% of humanity is killed. Sounds absolutely horrendous to me....

And yet, with God, anything is possible, including defeating death. Which he proved with Christ's resurrection..
Still sound horrendous?
Of course it does. Do you think Jesus ENJOYED being crucified? He begged for it not to happen, remember?
dan751
Bikerman wrote:
dan751 wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
A war in which 75% of humanity is killed. Sounds absolutely horrendous to me....

And yet, with God, anything is possible, including defeating death. Which he proved with Christ's resurrection..
Still sound horrendous?
Of course it does. Do you think Jesus ENJOYED being crucified? He begged for it not to happen, remember?

You're missing my point. Is it because you don't wish to see it?

Yes it's horrible that Jesus had to be crucified. I do remember him begging for it not to happen, to the point he was sweating blood. God told him that it had to be, do you think God really wanted to let it happen? Would you really want something like that to happen to one of your children? No, and neither did God. God told Jesus there's a reason for needing it to happen. And so it happened. And afterwards, Jesus was resurrected, something beautiful if you ask me. As it proves that resurrection is possible, even IF 75% of humanity is killed.
With ANY sort of gain, there must be a loss. You can't just sit on your couch waiting for money to start falling like rain, you have sacrifice many more hours into your job to get that bigger pay.
Bluedoll
I was thinking about this and how I feel. Do you notice how topics get robbed so quickly of their original intent? If you look at the Bikerman, lormar, Ankhanu, posts in this thread they only seem to be posting in this thread to either argue and/or provide very negative attitudes and thoughts about the end of the world.
My thoughts about what goes on here relates to something that is perhaps difficult to explain and understand but I will try. If you just look no further than say this little forum thread, can you see how it has gone.

Quote:
There is a force in the world today that is negative regarding the messages we can read from the bible. The reason for this might be many but the bible does say satan is involved. God is a force for good but just like Newton’s law in science there is a force in the opposite direction. The bible clearly defines what the end is and it gives a clear message that there will be a positive change in spirituality that will bring good things to the world despite the negativity against good. - the op


In relating to the op and the posts that follow it, it is obvious to see just where the negativity is coming from. What I mean specifically is a message (declaration, post, public exchange, published work) of positive goodness was robbed and replaced by another negative ugly message. I am only showing you, the reader, how the intent of an original message of hope and well being, can be quickly robbed of its meaning and replaced with a very negitive one.


______________________



Now, here is a more universal thought - - - as the good message of the bible is converted to ugliness here in this tiny little forum, on a much larger scale so will the world see ugliness produced by the negativity of the people in it.
Yes, I can agree not all is good in the world and any transition will bring painful results before good ones. I just think everyone should know where the negitivity comes from.
dan751
@Bluedoll:
I completely agree. It's really sad when I see the scientific community bash and attempt to find negativity in a hopeful message.
While the Bible sets out a warning for anyone who isn't concerned about God and what he has planned (a negative message) and yet equally wonderful promise for those who seek Him (a positive message).
catscratches
Ankhanu wrote:
I notice a lot of the end times prophecies relate to increasing violence and conflict... and people point to today's conflicts as evidence that things are getting out of hand. But, what about the fact that violence, war and conflict are actually declining? How does this fit in with the doomsday prophecies?
Wow, look at all that negativity! Why can't you just find solace in the hopeful message that violence and conflict will increase, Ankhanu?

Damn the scientific community for making us understand the world and aiding us with technological achievements that improve the quality of our lives. Surely, there is only a negative side to science, the negative side of clearing up confusions and delusions whereas the Bible at least has a positive side to it: blind faith.
deanhills
catscratches wrote:
Surely, there is only a negative side to science, the negative side of clearing up confusions and delusions whereas the Bible at least has a positive side to it: blind faith.
Surely science is just a tool and the theories and findings are determined by how people are applying the tool, not the tool itself? Whose confusion are you talking about however? Not those of faith. Only those who are using science as a tool to clear up their own confusion. But does it really clear up their confusion? How could a book of fables based on word by mouth stories over the centuries be analyzed scientifically and how could that serve to clear up "whose" confusion?

Furthermore, who says theists don't believe in science as a tool themselves? Why make science some kind of exclusive tool of "intelligence" restricted to non-theists? The majority of scientists in the world are theists. The majority of theists believe in progress that science has brought about. A vast majority of Christians don't take the Bible literally.
Bikerman
deanhills wrote:
The majority of scientists in the world are theists. The majority of theists believe in progress that science has brought about. A vast majority of Christians don't take the Bible literally.
What is your evidence for that claim? The US is the most religious country in the developed west.
Quote:
Many studies have been conducted in the United States and have generally found that scientists are less likely to believe in God than are the rest of the population. Precise definitions and statistics vary, but generally about 1/3 are atheists, 1/3 agnostic, and 1/3 have some belief in God (although some might be deistic, for example)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_between_religion_and_science
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
deanhills wrote:
The majority of scientists in the world are theists. The majority of theists believe in progress that science has brought about. A vast majority of Christians don't take the Bible literally.
What is your evidence for that claim? The US is the most religious country in the developed west.
Quote:
Many studies have been conducted in the United States and have generally found that scientists are less likely to believe in God than are the rest of the population. Precise definitions and statistics vary, but generally about 1/3 are atheists, 1/3 agnostic, and 1/3 have some belief in God (although some might be deistic, for example)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_between_religion_and_science
Nonsense! We've just discussed a "scientific" study about academics in another thread where it was found that the majority of the academics are religious.
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-126769.html

Here is some more research that comes to the conclusion that religiosity among Professors at Universities is underestimated:
http://religion.ssrc.org/reforum/Gross_Simmons.pdf

And more research questioning the general notion that there is a difference in religiosity between scientists and the rest of the population:
Comparison of religiosity levels between scientists and non-scientists by O'Connor, Arthur L., Jr., Ph.D., Walden University, 2010 , 180 pages; AAT 3398975
Bluedoll
catscratches wrote:
Ankhanu wrote:
I notice a lot of the end times prophecies relate to increasing violence and conflict... and people point to today's conflicts as evidence that things are getting out of hand. But, what about the fact that violence, war and conflict are actually declining? How does this fit in with the doomsday prophecies?
Wow, look at all that negativity! Why can't you just find solace in the hopeful message that violence and conflict will increase, Ankhanu?

Damn the scientific community for making us understand the world and aiding us with technological achievements that improve the quality of our lives. Surely, there is only a negative side to science, the negative side of clearing up confusions and delusions whereas the Bible at least has a positive side to it: blind faith.
Only a fool would throw a word around like that in a thread about “the end of the world.” and peaceful condition, you say?

Quote:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. - 1 Thessalonians 5:3 (King James Version)

Look to a scientific nuclear detonation and then you will be blinded.
It is not blind faith to believe in God. Negative and positives do exist everywhere, indeed they do. I am more interested in what the bible does say and not what the scientific community doth say about this topic. Tools do get used by men and there will be little you will be able to do about this I think, by calling on a community. Perhaps we would do better to call out for a much larger authority without an over inflated ego?
Quote:
And now, my friends, good-bye! Strive for perfection; listen to my appeals; agree with one another; live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.
Greet one another with the kiss of peace. - 2 Corinthians 13:11-13 (Good News Translation)


I am more interested in what God will see in a positive future than any worldly religion, interest group or any community might have because I have more trust in God than any other.
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