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Asap170
Okay over the past few years I came to realize that a lot of non political and normal people like us (well not exactly like us because we have websites) they tend to stick their nose into what the government should do. This really annoys me because if you think you can get the United States out of our debt and our economy crisis don't say how the heck you think and just freaking run for President. And then if you somehow get elected then try your ideas there is a slim chance that it is going to work. So personally I think people need to shut up and do something productive.

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Ankhanu
My thoughts are that this outlook is exceptionally naive.

It's partially correct. If you have ideas, work to have them implemented. Unfortunately, reality is a bitch. If the only way to get ideas put forth is to become president, well, your country is doomed Razz Luckily, bottom-up initiatives can work, if the right efforts are put behind them. You don't need to be president to enact change.

That aside, let's pretend that our idealist with great ideas does manage to get elected to president. There is an awful lot of inertia within governments to resist any actual change. Presidents don't get to make unilateral choices in the government, particularly where major policy changes are concerned, they must be passed by... I can't recall what governmental group it is in your country, but the name of the unit isn't important, it's the fact that many people get the chance to say no along the way. Most politicians like the way things work, it's how they ensure steady cash flowing into their pockets... they're not going to purposely upset the apple cart. Just look at any attempts to socialize health care in your country, or basically make healthcare more accessible (if not actually socialized); it would be a great benefit to the people in general, but would be a major blow to the status quo and the flow of cash within the medical (and related) industries... hence there's so much inertia to change, no matter how beneficial.

Never underestimate the power of a government to resist meaningful change... no matter who's involved.
deanhills
Asap170 wrote:
Okay over the past few years I came to realize that a lot of non political and normal people like us (well not exactly like us because we have websites) they tend to stick their nose into what the government should do.
I would say that it is the duty of every citizen to "stick their nose" into the affairs of their Government. Everyone has a responsibility to participate in Government so that it would be kept on its toes. I don't always think highly of the media, but they play a great role in doing just that. And citizens can also help by doing what they are doing in protests, blogs, commenting in editorials, etc.
loonix
I support small Government for the benefit of the people. What I do not support is big Government for the benefit of the corporations which is what we seem to have atm.

I hear what your saying about running for president. Have you ever tried that? You think any Hu-Man can reach such dizzy heights of perceived power? I will tll you for free that its impossible. The world is ran by certain bloodlines and regardless of your world view, I assure you that your blood is not of the ruling line nor will it ever be. You are a slave. You will always be a slave.

Democracy, what a joke considering the same hidden hand controls all sides.

But go on believing you can make a difference =)
Bluedoll
Asap170 wrote:
just freaking run for President.
This is more of a question, I suppose, as my knowledge of ‘politicks’ is somewhat limited. In America for example, elections are possible and therefore talking about the issues and what the government is doing is actually part of the process (democracy in action) but the average person has voting privileges and is not elected to create change. Though perhaps peaceful demonstration might bring about positive change I kind of agree that people ranting a lot about not liking someone or against government decisions is not really being productive.

I hear this lot when people talk continuously and say they are not liking the current president for example. Is he not your president, elected and in office by the people for the people and does that not mean, he and the elected government should be respected? However, come election time, bring forth the debate and the issues up front and make a lot of noise. Is it then simply a matter of timing?
Ankhanu
Bluedoll wrote:
I hear this lot when people talk continuously and say they are not liking the current president for example. Is he not your president, elected and in office by the people for the people and does that not mean, he and the elected government should be respected? However, come election time, bring forth the debate and the issues up front and make a lot of noise. Is it then simply a matter of timing?


Do you like and respect each Prime Minister we've had? I know I certainly don't and haven't. Our current PM, for example, I feel does not represent me, nor the wishes of the majority of Canadians. I think he supports ideas and policy that are un-Canadian, detrimental to global peace and cooperation, anti-environment (ties in with points one and two, preceding), and is out of touch with the realities of most people's lives... Respecting the PM simply because they are PM is opening the door for a lot of problems... it's essentially supporting short-term dictatorships. It's an appeal to authority for authority's sake.

No. Democracy doesn't work that way. We have a voice throughout the entire process of government and throughout any person/party's reign... no matter how small that voice may be. The right to dissent is absolutely fundamental to real democracy.

Like Dean pointed out, it is each of our responsibility, as democratic citizens, to hold government accountable to the people.
liljp617
I think you're saying the opposite of what is good.
Bluedoll
Ankhanu wrote:
Respecting the PM simply because they are PM is opening the door for a lot of problems... it's essentially supporting short-term dictatorships. It's an appeal to authority for authority's sake.
Truly, that is not really what I meant. Regardless of what policy we favour or who we voted for (I could have voted for the green party or the party next door the guys were having Laughing ) the fact is he is our current prime minster so yes I think he should be respected as he holds office. That does not mean you have to agree with everything. If not who is next, the governor general, should we throw rotten apples at the red men in front his house the ones with the big furry hats? Where does it end? Show little respect for supreme court Judges. Respect is necessary in my mind for all human beings and people in our elected offices are no exception. Yes, there are exceptions – hitlers, dictators, etc.

I do agree with you on democracy and having a voice. If we feel our cause is good and wish to take it somewhere, then I say go for it. That is why we have elections and why people can hang their hat in the lobby. I think the op was talking about something that is not progressive or even very proper opposition. Regardless of who is elected or who is running, some people just like to complain but is that is a negative action to actually changing something?
Ankhanu
I separate the idea of office and the person holding it. I can respect the office of President/Prime Minister and think the person occupying it is beyond contempt. In many regards, I take this separation seriously with Mr. Harper, for example. I respect the office of Prime Minister, but I think that the man who is the Prime Minister is contemptable (as the Common's Committee ruled back in March)... the only reason he's in office is due to our backwards first past the gate form of voting. His draconian views and efforts to destroy governmental accountability and transparency are not worthy of my respect.

The people occupying government office have to earn their respect, just like any other citizen. They're people first, office holder second.
Asap170
deanhills wrote:
Asap170 wrote:
Okay over the past few years I came to realize that a lot of non political and normal people like us (well not exactly like us because we have websites) they tend to stick their nose into what the government should do.
I would say that it is the duty of every citizen to "stick their nose" into the affairs of their Government. Everyone has a responsibility to participate in Government so that it would be kept on its toes. I don't always think highly of the media, but they play a great role in doing just that. And citizens can also help by doing what they are doing in protests, blogs, commenting in editorials, etc.


Well yea we have the ability to overthrow the government if he committed treason. But to say what Barrack Obama (or any president) should do and how to do it it just annoys me. We elected the President for a reason. Let's quit being babies that we made a wrong choice just because he isn't getting as much as he said he would get done as president.
Ankhanu
Asap170 wrote:
Well yea we have the ability to overthrow the government if he committed treason. But to say what Barrack Obama (or any president) should do and how to do it it just annoys me. We elected the President for a reason. Let's quit being babies that we made a wrong choice just because he isn't getting as much as he said he would get done as president.


The reason that we elect an official is to have the nation run according to our principles, isn't it? If our principles aren't being taken into consideration, then our representative isn't doing their job to represent us, no?

Overthrowing a government is a rather extreme approach towards getting things done... extreme to the point of silly (unless there are really serious reasons to do so). You seem to be of the opinion that we elect an official and then just let them do what they like... this is pretty silly, imo. These representatives are supposed answer to the people; it's important to maintain that.
Asap170
Ankhanu wrote:
Asap170 wrote:
Well yea we have the ability to overthrow the government if he committed treason. But to say what Barrack Obama (or any president) should do and how to do it it just annoys me. We elected the President for a reason. Let's quit being babies that we made a wrong choice just because he isn't getting as much as he said he would get done as president.


The reason that we elect an official is to have the nation run according to our principles, isn't it? If our principles aren't being taken into consideration, then our representative isn't doing their job to represent us, no?

Overthrowing a government is a rather extreme approach towards getting things done... extreme to the point of silly (unless there are really serious reasons to do so). You seem to be of the opinion that we elect an official and then just let them do what they like... this is pretty silly, imo. These representatives are supposed answer to the people; it's important to maintain that.


I don't mean elect someone that we let them to do what they like, but I don't know how else to say it but people are saying what we need to do and how to do it. The government knows it but it's hard to pass things cause we are a democracy.
ocalhoun
No matter what kind of government you're governed by, voicing your opinions about how it should be run is never a waste of time.

If your opinion is thoughtful and convincing, people will listen to you, and agree with you. They'll start convincing others, and start pushing for it to be implemented.
In a democracy, these people will vote, and hopefully that vote will result in it being implemented.
In non-democratic countries, the pressure to implement that idea might influence the government to enact it... and if it doesn't, the pressure might finally build up to a point where revolution can happen and that government is overthrown, to be replaced by one that enacts that idea.

In any case, voicing a good idea is worthwhile.
Ankhanu
You said it more succinctly than I've managed Ocalhoun Razz
deanhills
Right! Ocalhoun should really stand for Government! Perhaps President of thern? Very Happy

jmi256
Asap170 wrote:
Okay over the past few years I came to realize that a lot of non political and normal people like us (well not exactly like us because we have websites) they tend to stick their nose into what the government should do. This really annoys me because if you think you can get the United States out of our debt and our economy crisis don't say how the heck you think and just freaking run for President. And then if you somehow get elected then try your ideas there is a slim chance that it is going to work. So personally I think people need to shut up and do something productive.

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?


Those pesky people, with their opinions and rights/freedoms. They should be prohibited from wanting to not be abused by their government and learn to just up and sit down as the Left continues eroding their rights. /sarcasm
ocalhoun
jmi256 wrote:
Asap170 wrote:
Okay over the past few years I came to realize that a lot of non political and normal people like us (well not exactly like us because we have websites) they tend to stick their nose into what the government should do. This really annoys me because if you think you can get the United States out of our debt and our economy crisis don't say how the heck you think and just freaking run for President. And then if you somehow get elected then try your ideas there is a slim chance that it is going to work. So personally I think people need to shut up and do something productive.

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?


Those pesky people, with their opinions and rights/freedoms. They should be prohibited from wanting to not be abused by their government and learn to just up and sit down as the government continues eroding their rights. /sarcasm

Fixed.

The right is far, far from innocent when it comes to eroding rights.
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