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Pray for..





Dementei
Israel.
Thanks.

(This should start up a good thread, ja?)
coolclay
I pray for the world everyday, and Israel is part of said world so yes, I already have! But thanks for asking.
deanhills
Israel is in better shape than the majority of countries in the world. It's done a good job of looking after itself for a long time now. If any praying is needed, I'd probably use some of it for praying for the United States. Hell has no fury like terrorists scorned and if nothing else managed to do it, killing Bin Laden most certainly helped it along in a major way. And then there is the little matter of an economy that seems to be limping really badly yet the Federal Government still keeps on spending money as though there's no tomorrow. The guys living around the polluted Gulf, have just been about forgotten after BP has messed up badly.

I'd also pray for the Maldives as it may be in the process of disappearing completely due to the rising levels of the ocean. Japan certainly needs much more praying than Israel does. Not only has it been devastated by natural disasters, but apparently there is a good possibility of another major earthquake striking Tokyo shortly. I guess Sudan can do with some praying too. Looks as though it is standing on the brink of a major civil war. Not to mention the civil unrest in a large number of Arab countries. If one really studies the world picture, Israel seems to be in good shape - relatively speaking.

Anyway, I'd love to hear the reasons why Dementei seems to think Israel has to be singled out for special prayers.
ocalhoun
I'd agree with Deanhills on this one.
I think there are plenty of countries out there that need help a lot more than Israel does.

North Korea, Somalia, Afghanistan, to name a few.
Ankhanu
Why? Does God work by popular opinion?

The Doors - The Soft Parade wrote:
When I was back there in seminary school
There was a person there
Who put forth the proposition
That you can petition the Lord with prayer
Petition the lord with prayer
Petition the lord with prayer
You cannot petition the lord with prayer!


Being omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, I think God would be well aware of the plights of all peoples around the globe, including Israelites.

Even when I believed in God, I didn't understand the idea of praying for someone/something. God knows everything, so already knows the situations, God knows what's in your heart, so the prayer is just repetition of what is known... what's prayer supposed to accomplish?
jmlworld
Dementei wrote:
Israel.
Thanks.

(This should start up a good thread, ja?)


Let's pray for Iran instead. Let's hope they emerge as the strongest and most powerful Muslim country and let's hope they get their turn in the Middle East. Wink
Dementei
deanhills wrote:

Anyway, I'd love to hear the reasons why Dementei seems to think Israel has to be singled out for special prayers.


Well as a firm believer in the Bible, Israel is the key to ..well pretty much everything for the future, their situation is as it is written and it's getting quite close to (as everyone else says) the Rapture. Especially with the whole idea of Israel going back to the 67 borderlines, in turn East Jerusalem including all the Holy sites would be destroyed the day that happens.. that would be historical, well living right now in these times is historical.

But anyway, Israel as we all know is cornered in every direction by people who want them gone from the face of the Earth.. there's so much hate for the Jews it's not even funny, what is funny though is that the things that are of God are the ones that get the most hate, as Jews being God's people. Israel has like no allies left either, they aren't defenseless, but I do see another outbreak of war between them and Palestine or any other surrounding country coming.

And one last thing to mention is that without Israel I am pretty sure the U.S. would fall in turn, as Israel stands as the last pedestal of Democracy, then after that happens bring on the New World Order, the Antichrist (Obama, lol), destruction, pain, agony, fight for survival, well.. better to just say apocalypse. With the only thing keeping Satan from completely reigning over the Earth gone (Christians), all hell will be sure to break loose globally, even more so than now and it's getting worse every day and week.

I think we all need to read over Revelation again, all the answers are in that book, all of them..

Also Ankhanu, you have 1337 posts, keep it that way Razz
And that's awesome coolclay, prepare your family and friends.
deanhills
Dementei wrote:
But anyway, Israel as we all know is cornered in every direction by people who want them gone from the face of the Earth.. there's so much hate for the Jews it's not even funny, what is funny though is that the things that are of God are the ones that get the most hate, as Jews being God's people. Israel has like no allies left either, they aren't defenseless, but I do see another outbreak of war between them and Palestine or any other surrounding country coming.
I'm not so sure I can agree with you on this one. At one point the hate had been a unifying factor among Arab countries, but right now they have so many other things on their mind, Israel seems to be on the back burner. Some of the Arab countries are also clamping down on accepting Palestinian "refugees".

Dementei wrote:
And one last thing to mention is that without Israel I am pretty sure the U.S. would fall in turn, as Israel stands as the last pedestal of Democracy, then after that happens bring on the New World Order, the Antichrist (Obama, lol), destruction, pain, agony, fight for survival, well.. better to just say apocalypse. With the only thing keeping Satan from completely reigning over the Earth gone (Christians), all hell will be sure to break loose globally, even more so than now and it's getting worse every day and week.
This sounds like crazy talk Dementei. In spite of Obama's "talk", there is still a very close bond between the Jewish in the US and Israel that speaks very loudly in terms of funding. There are many wealthy Jewish as well as influential Jewish in US business and Government. When Obama was on his Presidential Campaign in 2008, he made a great effort to curry favour with Jewish communities in the US. I also don't see Obama as an antichrist. I don't know where that talk comes from. The President can never be more than the Political System of the United States, so in essence most of what he does is "checked" by the system he is President in. He does have choices that he can make, but is surrounded by plenty of advisors. Then there is of course the media that has its cameras trained on every move he makes.

Dementei wrote:
I think we all need to read over Revelation again, all the answers are in that book, all of them.. And that's awesome coolclay, prepare your family and friends.
It is the Chapter I never read. It is so ambiguous and dark that one could easily come up with a treasure trove of dooms day messages.
deanhills
jmlworld wrote:
Dementei wrote:
Israel.
Thanks.

(This should start up a good thread, ja?)


Let's pray for Iran instead. Let's hope they emerge as the strongest and most powerful Muslim country and let's hope they get their turn in the Middle East. Wink
Iran could well turn out one of the greatest threats yet for the world, particularly from a nuclear power point of view. Here are some interesting views by Christopher Hitchens who regards Iran as an axis power:
jmlworld
deanhills wrote:
Iran could well turn out one of the greatest threats yet for the world, particularly from a nuclear power point of view. Here are some interesting views by Christopher Hitchens who regards Iran as an axis power:


They're in the process of being an axis power, but still they need 20-30 more years (without wars) to prepare themselves and they could be the next big thing.

What they need though is someone as tough as Ahmadinejad but with less arrogance in their next elections. The problem with Ahmadinejad is that he sometimes say things without a second thought; see his famous sentence "World without Israel".

Anyway, I'm cheering for Iran. You know, I sometimes feel for USSR. They miserably failed but in their era, NATO were not as dared as they're today.
Dementei
Well deanhills, it's become a crazy world we live in with change being so constant.. and so to reply to your post Israel is definitely not on the backburner (in reality it's what is holding back the Muslims from conquering the whole Middle East/Europe = caliphate + sharia law), Obama and many other leaders are looking forward to the New World Order (already printing global currency), and Revelation is probably the most important chapter to read especially in the times we live in today. We may be in fact be the people to experience the end times, history is being made everyday. And to deny that we aren't coming close to the end, well.. just look around you we are crumbling to pieces, with Christ out of mind the world is self-destructing.
ocalhoun
Dementei wrote:
Obama and many other leaders are looking forward to the New World Order (already printing global currency),

[citation needed]





... And for all this 'the end of the world is nigh' talk... Didn't we just recently have a good lesson about that?
liljp617
Dementei wrote:
Well deanhills, it's become a crazy world we live in with change being so constant.. and so to reply to your post Israel is definitely not on the backburner (in reality it's what is holding back the Muslims from conquering the whole Middle East/Europe = caliphate + sharia law), Obama and many other leaders are looking forward to the New World Order (already printing global currency), and Revelation is probably the most important chapter to read especially in the times we live in today. We may be in fact be the people to experience the end times, history is being made everyday. And to deny that we aren't coming close to the end, well.. just look around you we are crumbling to pieces, with Christ out of mind the world is self-destructing.


Troll or....?
Dementei
I don't think I have to talk for myself, the worlds' issues speak for themselves, it's common sense more than anything. Deny what you want, our lives are going to change.. and if you want answers just look on Google, watch the news, or listen to the radio.. all I am really saying here is to wake up and prepare for the worst, whatever happens to Israel will effect the entire world. And Harold Camping's predictions are pretty contradicting to the Bible, as no one knows when Christ is coming back, not even Jesus himself.. again that is in Revelation.
truespeed
Dementei wrote:
I don't think I have to talk for myself, the worlds' issues speak for themselves, it's common sense more than anything. Deny what you want, our lives are going to change.. and if you want answers just look on Google, watch the news, or listen to the radio.. all I am really saying here is to wake up and prepare for the worst, whatever happens to Israel will effect the entire world. And Harold Camping's predictions are pretty contradicting to the Bible, as no one knows when Christ is coming back, not even Jesus himself.. again that is in Revelation.


People have been saying this for hundreds of years,mostly those of a biblical persuasion,quoting revelations. Its probably best to not get your world view from a book.

The world today is not that different from the world of Jesus's time before and after,its just when we kill each other now we do it with bigger weapons.

Cheer up eh. Smile
menino
Praying for the world is what I do also, and it is in dire need of it.

Israel cannot be singled out, as deanhills had mentioned, it has defended itself quite well from the surrounding nations, ... so far.

Revelations doesn't talk about Israel only - it talks about the whole world, and thats what needs praying for - each and everyone in the world.

Not everyone here believes in the Bible or Christianity, and leaves one to debate or argue about your points in the Bible.

The world has been spiraling downwards since a long time now, for about more than 500 years, if you actually look at history - the wars that took place, the plagues, famines, killings, civil wars, sufferings, etc, but rather than try to change everyone, perhaps you should start with yourself, and not do it because of Revelations, but because it is in your heart and mind to do it.

Still... pray for me as well as the rest of us, Dementei. Smile
Dementei
menino wrote:
Praying for the world is what I do also, and it is in dire need of it.

Israel cannot be singled out, as deanhills had mentioned, it has defended itself quite well from the surrounding nations, ... so far.

Revelations doesn't talk about Israel only - it talks about the whole world, and thats what needs praying for - each and everyone in the world.

Not everyone here believes in the Bible or Christianity, and leaves one to debate or argue about your points in the Bible.

The world has been spiraling downwards since a long time now, for about more than 500 years, if you actually look at history - the wars that took place, the plagues, famines, killings, civil wars, sufferings, etc, but rather than try to change everyone, perhaps you should start with yourself, and not do it because of Revelations, but because it is in your heart and mind to do it.

Still... pray for me as well as the rest of us, Dementei. Smile


Yes Israel has defended itself well, but if they were to be stripped of the West Bank then well it just makes it a whole lot harder to defend.. and plus East Jerusalem as I said before I can't stress it anymore, will be destroyed.



I'm not trying to change anyone, it's more of a warning of the obvious.. if you can't see the signs at hand, even the natural disasters, then you may be in some sort of denial plainly.
I'm not saying to freak out and worry about the end for the rest of your life, but I'd like to let people know before anymore prophecy is fulfilled. This is a wake up call.. on a forum thread, not that it's going to do much besides add to my points balance..

And lastly I do pray and hope for the world and all you guys, but I also pray for Christ's return as well, to take us away from all the pain to come. I am not praying through fear of pain but because I'm ready for Christ and I know many many more who are too. Are you?
loonix
Ankhanu wrote:
Why? Does God work by popular opinion?


The idea that God is sitting around counting prayers =)

GOD wrote:
Hmm 10 million prayers today for Israel and 12.5 million prayers for Palestine, guess I'll have to smite Jerusalem today...
Bikerman
Personally I think that anyone who 'prays for Christ's return' is basically immoral. Most of the population of the world do NOT believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and therefore praying for his return is effectively praying for the murder of over 4 billion people.

You may be anxious to meet your 'maker' but I think that praying for many of us to be cast into eternal torment is a bit much.
Quote:
Just as the weeds are collected and burned up with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let anyone with ears listen!

If you are so anxious to end it, take up some ultra-dangerous sport, such as base jumping, and leave the rest of us out of your prayers please.
jwellsy
I stand with courage in support of Israel!
Bikerman
errr..What courage is needed to support Israel?
Dementei
Ah yes the notorious Bikerman.. I have nothing to say to you bro.. besides the following:

If you knew the Bible, Christ's return as in the Rapture is saving those who believe in Him, then comes the seven year tribulation period of which those who were left behind still have their choice to believe and repent. I don't want anyone to be cast into hell, neither does God, so.. you can't say stuff like that Razz

Not to get down on a personal level, but I think you just don't understand the love of Jesus, that's what I get from what you say imo, which is another reason why you bash on Christ and Israel and anything with God.
Ankhanu
Ankhanu wrote:
... God knows everything, so already knows the situations, God knows what's in your heart, so the prayer is just repetition of what is known... what's prayer supposed to accomplish?


Still wondering about this Razz

Dementei wrote:
I don't want anyone to be cast into hell, neither does God, so.. you can't say stuff like that Razz


God doesn't want to... but will... It makes the rules and judgements, and is the one that cast folk into hell. If he didn't want to, he doesn't have to do it... he can change the rules; he's changed them before.

If God didn't want people to suffer, it'd prevent it.
truespeed
Dementei wrote:


Yes Israel has defended itself well, but if they were to be stripped of the West Bank then well it just makes it a whole lot harder to defend.. and plus East Jerusalem as I said before I can't stress it anymore, will be destroyed.



I'm not trying to change anyone, it's more of a warning of the obvious.. if you can't see the signs at hand, even the natural disasters, then you may be in some sort of denial plainly.
I'm not saying to freak out and worry about the end for the rest of your life, but I'd like to let people know before anymore prophecy is fulfilled. This is a wake up call.. on a forum thread, not that it's going to do much besides add to my points balance..

And lastly I do pray and hope for the world and all you guys, but I also pray for Christ's return as well, to take us away from all the pain to come. I am not praying through fear of pain but because I'm ready for Christ and I know many many more who are too. Are you?


Basing your opinion that the world will soon end on the current political situation and the unrest in the middle east is well and fine,but to then include natural disasters an early warning sign of Gods wrath perhaps?

In fact theres nothing obvious in anything you say,the only obvious thing is that you have been brainwashed by a 2000 year old book into believing your special and will survive any end of world scenario,because if the shit does hit the fan for what ever reason,bible readers will die along with the rest of us,and that includes you,there will be no jesus on his white charger coming to save you.
jmlworld
Dementei wrote:
If you knew the Bible, Christ's return as in the Rapture is saving those who believe in Him, then comes the seven year tribulation period of which those who were left behind still have their choice to believe and repent. I don't want anyone to be cast into hell, neither does God, so.. you can't say stuff like that Razz


Err... So do you think Jesus will betray other people from other religions who believed in Jesus, but not as a God?

Muslims for example, do not believe that Jesus is a God, or a son of God, but they believe that he's a prophet, a man like us, a slave of God and a son of woman like our women.

Quote:
He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel.

Quran chapter 43 (Ornaments Of Gold), verse 59


So my friend, in your argument, do you think that Jesus will send the Christians to heaven and the rest of the world to hell because they didn't recognize him as a God?

And what about Israelis? You're strong believer in the Bible as it seems and I thought that Christians believe that it was Israelis who killed Jesus, so do you think he will take his revenge on his second coming? Isn't it crazy to pray for the exact people who killed your Lord for no reason?

Ah, and I didn't want to offend you in case you see my points sickening. Wink
Bikerman
Dementei wrote:
Ah yes the notorious Bikerman.. I have nothing to say to you bro.. besides the following:

If you knew the Bible,
Oh I do, I assure you. Want to see?
Quote:
Christ's return as in the Rapture is saving those who believe in Him, then comes the seven year tribulation period of which those who were left behind still have their choice to believe and repent. I don't want anyone to be cast into hell, neither does God, so.. you can't say stuff like that Razz
The seven year tribulation is contained nowhere in the bible. Talk of tribulation, in Micah, has no timescale and neither has the central prophecy in Deuteronomy. Strike one.
The prediction is largely drawn from Deuteronomy 4:29-39 and then intertwined with the stuff from the Mad Prophet in Revelations. If one wishes to take Deut. literally then one is damned anyway, since Deuteronomy contains many laws and injunctions which nobody keeps nowadays (or they would be locked-up) - several hundred in fact. Do you kill cheeky children? Strike two.

The notion that any God would offer people 7 years to say 'sorry' or face eternal torment is one of the most barmy ideas of a barmy religion. It is based on complete misunderstanding of the millenialist tradition in early Christianity and the parable-laden nature of the OT. Why would one choose to be moral and good, according to your religion, if one knew that all one had to do was be sorry when the endtimes came? Is it seriously proposed that this is fair or just? Imagine Hitler and Stalin - we're really really sorry. OK, in you come.

How could one NOT believe in a God who made a personal appearance?
Arrant nonsense. Strike 3
Quote:
Not to get down on a personal level, but I think you just don't understand the love of Jesus, that's what I get from what you say imo, which is another reason why you bash on Christ and Israel and anything with God.
On the other hand maybe YOU don't understand the selfish childish and violent nature of the old man Yaweh...who is Jesus isn't he? I 'bash' on Israel because of its illegal and hypocritical behaviour, not because of Judaism - though I am generally against ANY theocracies. I accept Israel has the same rights as any other state AND the same obligations.

I expect the next charge will be that I am anti-semitic as well as anti-religious? The idea that ANY Christian has ANYTHING to say on the subject of 'bashing' Israel is so hypocritical that I'm surprised your keyboard hasn't rejected it in disgust. The Jews were the 'Christ Killers' according to Christianity until very recently. Where do you think anti-semitism originates?
deanhills
Dementei wrote:
Israel is definitely not on the backburner (in reality it's what is holding back the Muslims from conquering the whole Middle East/Europe = caliphate + sharia law)
Wow, Israel would feel very complimented to hear your high estimation of their role in the Middle East. I'm not belittling its role, as yes, it most certainly does have a role to play in evening out the balance of power in that region, but maybe you are overestimating its role just a teeny little bit?

Dementei wrote:
Obama and many other leaders are looking forward to the New World Order (already printing global currency),
Not sure what you mean, which other leaders are you referring to and what would this New World Order be? What global currency are you referring to?

Dementei wrote:
Revelation is probably the most important chapter to read especially in the times we live in today. We may be in fact be the people to experience the end times, history is being made everyday. And to deny that we aren't coming close to the end, well.. just look around you we are crumbling to pieces, with Christ out of mind the world is self-destructing.
Let's say you are right and it is an important chapter. What use would there be in reading it if the die has already been cast? If the inevitable is there and I know I can't do anything about it, it may be much better to let it go, and enjoy the present moment that I have. I'd rather listen to some great music that gives me the "chills" than work my way through Revelations. What point is there to get all upset about something that is dark and foreboding and I can't do anything about anyway? That is of course if you are right.
Dementei
Very Happy I knew I'd get a good thread goin' here, hehe, especially with my outrageous and ridiculous claims, of which probably doesn't make any sense right now.
It's hard to piece it all together logically and soundly, I'm not good in wording my sentences appropriately as I'm sure someone else who knows the topics way more than I do, could do so. But in any case, I don't have time right now to think of replies so I'll be back on here in a couple days. Leave me some more goodies, Bikerman, talkin' to you.. and dean Razz
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
errr..What courage is needed to support Israel?

Given some of Israel's despicable actions, it would take courage to support them.
deanhills
Dementei wrote:
Very Happy I knew I'd get a good thread goin' here, hehe, especially with my outrageous and ridiculous claims, of which probably doesn't make any sense right now.
It's hard to piece it all together logically and soundly, I'm not good in wording my sentences appropriately as I'm sure someone else who knows the topics way more than I do, could do so. But in any case, I don't have time right now to think of replies so I'll be back on here in a couple days. Leave me some more goodies, Bikerman, talkin' to you.. and dean Razz
Great to debate with you Dementei. Maybe when you do some reading, try and stay away from Revelations. Doesn't that Chapter give you nightmares at night? Twisted Evil
Dementei
deanhills wrote:
Dementei wrote:
Very Happy I knew I'd get a good thread goin' here, hehe, especially with my outrageous and ridiculous claims, of which probably doesn't make any sense right now.
It's hard to piece it all together logically and soundly, I'm not good in wording my sentences appropriately as I'm sure someone else who knows the topics way more than I do, could do so. But in any case, I don't have time right now to think of replies so I'll be back on here in a couple days. Leave me some more goodies, Bikerman, talkin' to you.. and dean Razz
Great to debate with you Dementei. Maybe when you do some reading, try and stay away from Revelations. Doesn't that Chapter give you nightmares at night? Twisted Evil


Hey I'm back, yea nice to debate with ya too dean.
There is beauty in Revelation and then there is death and destruction.
Tbh I don't really have any fear of what's to come, maybe for the world of the 'lost' (which isn't exactly right to say), but I think everything is simply just going to be alright. Well more than alright, it's going to be.. well I can't even comprehend what heaven would be like for a thousand years.. the work of God is just unfathomable. But anyway, yea I skimmed through all the posts, Bikerman makes me laugh and dean you are pleasant. Bman is too pro for me, he must be a professor or some sort. Wink

No but really Jews may have killed another Jew, their savior Christ, but they are known as God's people throughout the Old Testament (and they still have more to learn, not sure if they ever will lol) and just as it is written Israel is apart of the end times.
Even Israel becoming a nation is prophecy fulfilled, not that any of this really matters to you guys maybe, but when you believe and trust in God; His word becomes known to you as a guide. And that guide is telling the world to prepare our souls and reach salvation. We are all saved by the blood of Christ, it's just the matter of repentance, all the hard work is done you just have to do your part if you want to see what life is really about. Stay free in Christ (I prefer away from religion - just faith) and simply live. Hallelujah Very Happy
Bikerman
You stay away from religion yet you buy into the Hebrew Bible? If it is just a matter of faith then why Jesus and not Vishnu or Apollo?

Revelations is the ramblings of Mad John of Patmos the hermit. Insofar as it has any meaning it is simply the history of the early Church up to the apocalypse - the fall of the Temple in 70CE,
deanhills
Dementei wrote:
We are all saved by the blood of Christ, it's just the matter of repentance, all the hard work is done you just have to do your part if you want to see what life is really about. Stay free in Christ (I prefer away from religion - just faith) and simply live. Hallelujah Very Happy
Right, but the New Testament has to be an easier read though, it will also get you to worry less about the end of the world. Wink I do think the Middle East has a potential for really serious problems for the rest of the world. Hitchens sees it too. His greatest concern is Iran and the capability of those crazy mullahs to use nuclear power. Israel is important for the balance of power in the Middle East, but Iran I think is the country that I would be the most concerned about from a global safety point of view.
Bikerman
Israel is important for US power, not a 'balance' of power. There is no balance of power in the middle east. Israel does pretty much what it likes and the US backs it up.
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
Israel is important for US power, not a 'balance' of power. There is no balance of power in the middle east. Israel does pretty much what it likes and the US backs it up.
What do you mean with there is no balance of power in the Middle East? Anything the US does is always focused on that. Google it and you will find plenty of information on the subject on the Internet. It is also a common sense topic in the study of foreign policy.
Bikerman
I mean exactly what I said. There is no balance of power. There is one country in the region that has nuclear weapons - that means that any notion of a 'balance' is illigitimate because that country has the power to wipe out the surrounding ones.
The US is not interested in 'balance' of power, it is interested in maintaining Israel as THE regional power. If it were seeking a balance of power then the obvious thing to do would be to give Iran the same nuclear weapons that Israel has. That, after all, is what the US says was responsible for peace after WW2 - mutually assured destruction.

It might be 'common sense' to you. Unfortunately common sense is often neither.
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
I mean exactly what I said. There is no balance of power. There is one country in the region that has nuclear weapons - that means that any notion of a 'balance' is illigitimate because that country has the power to wipe out the surrounding ones.
The US is not interested in 'balance' of power, it is interested in maintaining Israel as THE regional power. If it were seeking a balance of power then the obvious thing to do would be to give Iran the same nuclear weapons that Israel has. That, after all, is what the US says was responsible for peace after WW2 - mutually assured destruction.

It might be 'common sense' to you. Unfortunately common sense is often neither.
It is impossible for there to be no balance of power. If you think Iran has the upper hand the closest you can get is an imbalance of power. The US has not only an investment in Israel, it also has an investment in Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, almost every country in the region. The Middle East consists of more than just Israel and Iran as major players. Saudi Arabia and Egypt are major players as well. And so are China and Russia and some of the large Western countries. Last I heard the US, China and Russia all have nuclear arms. They all have a vested interest in the Middle East and are competing with one another for power in the region.
Bikerman
It isn't 'impossible'
China, Pakistan and Russia are not in the middle east. Every country has interests there, and certainly they support 'proxies' that they thing will best represent their interest. They are not, however, likely to push the button and launch nukes. Israel is quite likely to do so - particularly if they think that there IS a balance of power - ie if Iran DO develop nuclear weapons.
At the moment there is a balance of terror. Israel continues to flout international law, hold-up the peace process and build on occupied land. If there was a balance of power then it could not do so.
Saudi Arabia and Egypt are not major players in their own right. Saudi is a US puppet regime - how long do you think the 'house of Saud' would last without US military backing? Egypt WAS a puppet state - but now that the US puppet-in-chief - Mubarak - has been ousted I don't know how that will play out.
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
It isn't 'impossible'
China, Pakistan and Russia are not in the middle east. Every country has interests there, and certainly they support 'proxies' that they thing will best represent their interest. They are not, however, likely to push the button and launch nukes. Israel is quite likely to do so - particularly if they think that there IS a balance of power - ie if Iran DO develop nuclear weapons.
At the moment there is a balance of terror. Israel continues to flout international law, hold-up the peace process and build on occupied land. If there was a balance of power then it could not do so.
Saudi Arabia and Egypt are not major players in their own right. Saudi is a US puppet regime - how long do you think the 'house of Saud' would last without US military backing? Egypt WAS a puppet state - but now that the US puppet-in-chief - Mubarak - has been ousted I don't know how that will play out.
You don't have to be in the Middle East to be a role player in balance of power in the Middle East. Especially when some of those guys have military bases or agreements with the Middle East countries.
Bikerman
Certainly. The fact remains that the US is the most powerful influence in the region. The notion that it is simply trying to maintain some notional 'balance' of power is mistaken. It is trying to maintain a position which is most favourable to US interests. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, and the Russians and Chinese are doing exactly the same thing - as ALL countries do - but 'balance of power' is a weasel-worded phrase and it is much better to deal with the reality rather than some fiction about 'balance'.
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