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Democrats, Tactics and Bin Laden





jmlworld
Now, even people who were living under a rock know that Bin Laden is dead. The people in the United States celebrated and danced. Now the danger is gone, right? Now the United States are going to withdraw their troops in Iraq and Afghan, right?

...wait, there's something Americans (the people, not the government) missed here.

First, let me tell you that the whole story is hoax. It's a timely dishonest scheme run by the same people who claimed that they didn't exactly know and couldn't prevent the 9/11 attacks.

Bin Laden was killed or dead long, long ago

Yes, it was long ago since he released his routine video type. The monarchy of Saudi Arabia noticed that Osama bin Laden died of typhoid in Pakistan in 2006. The French Secret Service also were known that he's dead and L'Est Republicain, a French daily tabloid sniffed and leaked the news only the concerned bodies to deny it. I cannot find the link and Google is currently overwhelmed by Obama and his last leak, but I'm sure you heard it. But you can read this BBC story on Jacques Chirac ordering an inquiry into the leak.

Evidence that Obama lied

Obama said that the body is in the custody of the US military (source ->) and we were waiting to witness the photos of the body on TV's or via the official website of the White House, or may be somehow in Obama's personal blog. But what? They Buried him in the sea in **cough** an Islamic way**cough** (source ->).

There is a clumsy photo floating on the Internet. From Twitter to Facebook, etc... But you know, God Save Photoshop. The Pentagon themselves said the photo is a forgery. Wait until their clever photoshoppers create a better one.

Do you remember the day they captured Sadam. His hairy head conquering the whole media outlets available and that public domain short video everybody was copying and pasting all over the internet. Now, why not the same?

I don't know what people in the US and Canada believe, but I've gone through blogs run by people in the Middle East, Far East Asia, Africans and few Europeans and most of them believe that this is a bogus story run by the democrats to secure their reign in the White House.

Obama is automatically reelected, and the democrats are watching the celebrations of clueless civilians while rubbing their fingers with glee.

So, Bin Laden is (allegedly) killed, what's next?
Bikerman
So, let's assume this conspiracy theory is correct.
The US launch a politically dodgy strike into Pakistan, blow up a helicopter, engage in a protracted fire-fight with - err, maybe themselves? They do this KNOWING that there are bound to be reprisals - in fact this is what they want because it gives them an excuse to keep up the terrorist alert and keep the population jumpy.* The democrats manage to plan and execute this without any dissident or republican knowledge or witnesses, as cover for the fact that OBL was killed some time ago. They are confident that nobody will think it is a hoax and no later evidence will arise to contradict the story.
They bury the body at sea (Muslim law says the body should be buried within 24 hours and I doubt the US would want OBLs body on 'home' turf) to hide the evidence.
The French (that well known best-friend of the US) know this is a hoax but will not say so because....err....maybe the US has threatened to embargo cheese?


err, right....

* This is the only part that would make any sense to me, and I cannot seriously believe that they would have chosen this as the best way to do it.
handfleisch
Navigator
Bikerman wrote:
So, let's assume this conspiracy theory is correct.
The US launch a politically dodgy strike into Pakistan, blow up a helicopter, engage in a protracted fire-fight with - err, maybe themselves? They do this KNOWING that there are bound to be reprisals - in fact this is what they want because it gives them an excuse to keep up the terrorist alert and keep the population jumpy.* The democrats manage to plan and execute this without any dissident or republican knowledge or witnesses, as cover for the fact that OBL was killed some time ago. They are confident that nobody will think it is a hoax and no later evidence will arise to contradict the story.
They bury the body at sea (Muslim law says the body should be buried within 24 hours and I doubt the US would want OBLs body on 'home' turf) to hide the evidence.
The French (that well known best-friend of the US) know this is a hoax but will not say so because....err....maybe the US has threatened to embargo cheese?


err, right....

* This is the only part that would make any sense to me, and I cannot seriously believe that they would have chosen this as the best way to do it.


Not only the french, pretty much everyone in the intelligence community know this as it is a small town. I don't think there are bipartisan struggles as pointed within the intelligence community, if dems and reps are playing ball is because they don't mess with the top dogs, or else.
tazone
do we have proof that what they say happened

no, thats the us government


they said they would bring him to justice and he died

they say he died but his body is buried at sea and remains unconfirmed

they gave us a picture which already was stated that it wasnt a real photo

why wont they prove anything
truespeed
Conspiracy theorists will believe anything but the truth.
Bikerman
Navigator wrote:
Not only the french, pretty much everyone in the intelligence community know this as it is a small town. I don't think there are bipartisan struggles as pointed within the intelligence community, if dems and reps are playing ball is because they don't mess with the top dogs, or else.
Ridiculous. The notion that republicans would shy away from this is bizarre. Obama would be in prison within the day and it is quite likely there would be talk of killing him. I can't imagine how angry the US population would be if they found out they had been conned on this - but I know it is a number greater than u27*. What is more, the Democrats would be unelectable for a generation - they wouldn't have any 'top dogs' to worry about.
As for foreign powers knowing - that would give them almost complete control over Obama. Anything they wanted - all they would need to say is 'a troublesome back-bencher has found out and is threatening to blab unless x,y,z.
It is fantasy.

* u27 is a transfinite non-commutative number. u is the amount of anger an average person would feel if they were late for work because their house caught fire, got the sack for lateness and, on the way to the car-park, they found the car has been nicked. U27 has no fixed value, but it is clearly VERY angry.
ocalhoun
jmlworld wrote:
a French daily tabloid

When you're citing tabloids as sources, you know it's time to take a step back and re-evaluate.

Bikerman wrote:

* u27 is a transfinite non-commutative number. u is the amount of anger an average person would feel if they were late for work because their house caught fire, got the sack for lateness and, on the way to the car-park, they found the car has been nicked. U27 has no fixed value, but it is clearly VERY angry.

Very nice. ^.^



Now, is the burial at sea slightly suspicious? Yes. There are, however, plausible reasons why this was chosen.
Surely somebody thought to document this, and if the conspiracy theorists become too troublesome, I suspect that this documentation will be made public.



To be fair, your conspiracy theory about it is not the worst I've seen lately.
(The worst I've seen revolved around the 'fact' that this occurred on May 1st... Problem is, while it was announced in the US on May 1st, due to time zone differences, it actually happened on May 2nd, local time.)
jmlworld
ocalhoun wrote:
Surely somebody thought to document this, and if the conspiracy theorists become too troublesome, I suspect that this documentation will be made public.


There are loads of photoshoppers out there in the US. But I don't know if any of these photoshoppers were ever allowed to work for the government. You know, it could take them 2-3 hours to visualize the groundbreaking story.

Anyway, I'm not thrilled by this. Although the democrats are the savviest in graphics and such thing, it took years to get a copy of Obama's birth certificate Wink
deanhills
truespeed wrote:
Conspiracy theorists will believe anything but the truth.
I agree. This is a true statement. But am really curious to know what the truth is. For example. Tonight I learned that they had confiscated plenty of hard drives and computers from Bin Laden's compound. So I would imagine there would have been up to date photos of Bin Laden in those? Yet here we get the exact same photos dating from the nineties. Saddam Hussein I believed AND we got up to date photos of him. That was credible. But Bin Laden's facts so far have been very sketchy.

ocalhoun wrote:
Now, is the burial at sea slightly suspicious? Yes. There are, however, plausible reasons why this was chosen.
Surely somebody thought to document this, and if the conspiracy theorists become too troublesome, I suspect that this documentation will be made public.
I certainly hope so, as that would make great sense to me. Including some up to date photos as well.
jmlworld
deanhills wrote:
[...]am really curious to know what the truth is. For example. Tonight I learned that they had confiscated plenty of hard drives and computers from Bin Laden's compound. So I would imagine there would have been up to date photos of Bin Laden in those? Yet here we get the exact same photos dating from the nineties. Saddam Hussein I believed AND we got up to date photos of him. That was credible. But Bin Laden's facts so far have been very sketchy.


That's why I'm suspicious that there's something very serious going in the background.

The US government said that OBL resisted against the comrades who did the operation. One official said that Bin Laden used a weapon to resist, but he didn't tell what type of weapon. But today, I was listening to VOA (Voice of America) radio and they say that Osama was not armed at all.

So why kill him while he was not armed. Why not take him to a criminal court, let him face the justice and then do whatever you want on him from torture to setting him on fire or anything else the US deem necessary to serve the 9/11 justice?

Mankind is at a loss to the following questions:

- Did they really kill OBL?
- Did he blow up himself as an act of martyrdom?
- Was OBL really alive as late as April 30 2011?
- Did they discover his grave and took the credit of killing him?
- If they really killed him, why did they bury him in a sea?
- Why didn't they bring any evidence?
- Was Pakistan aware of this raid?
- Will they now leave other peoples' countries for God's sake?
- Who's the next Bin Laden? Gaddafi? Hassan Nasrullah? Or my neighborhood Mullah?
- Which one of Syria, Iran and Lebanon is the next target?
- When will Iran start messing with the Arab monarchs?
- Is Obama really American?
- Was Fidel Castro right that Bin Laden was a CIA agent?
- Are the Democrats more genius than the Republicans?
- How much money did they spend hunting Bin Laden?
deanhills
jmlworld wrote:
- Did they really kill OBL?

Al Qaeda is of the opinion they did kill OBL, so I think that is sufficient authentication for me
jmlworld wrote:
- Did he blow up himself as an act of martyrdom?
Does not sound very plausible to me. There probably would have been a hole where the compound would have been. Twisted Evil
jmlworld wrote:
- Was OBL really alive as late as April 30 2011?
I had been doubtful whether he had ever really existed to the powerful extent that he apparently had. But I do believe that he had been killed as per Obama's version. I don't think he had been that active however for the six years that he had been living in Pakistan, if indeed he had been there for six years. That part I still need some evidence for as I can't believe that a terrorist would stay that long in one place.
jmlworld wrote:
- Did they discover his grave and took the credit of killing him?
That sounds a bit conspiratorial to me.
jmlworld wrote:
- If they really killed him, why did they bury him in a sea?
That has me puzzled too. Other than possibly that that was neutral ground. If they had buried him in Pakistan Pakistan would have been in trouble, etc. etc.
jmlworld wrote:
- Why didn't they bring any evidence?
Good question. That has me puzzled too.
jmlworld wrote:
- Was Pakistan aware of this raid?
Depends who you are talking about, as I'm almost certain that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing in Pakistan. Maybe some of the Military could have known he was hiding out where he was. That would have made some sense to me. And then perhaps he got sold out by them as well? Maybe after six years of "retirement" he did not have enough money to keep them happy? Money seems to always have the ability to get people's cooperation. Twisted Evil
jmlworld wrote:
- Will they now leave other peoples' countries for God's sake?
Not so sure what you mean with this question?
jmlworld wrote:
- Who's the next Bin Laden? Gaddafi? Hassan Nasrullah? Or my neighborhood Mullah?
Good question. Bin Laden's greatest marketing ally had to have been the West. I'm almost certain they gave him power that he could have had at one time, but most certainly not at the time of his death. For me he has always been more of an icon rather than a live person.
jmlworld wrote:
- Which one of Syria, Iran and Lebanon is the next target?
Excellent question. Do you think Israel may already be in the know? Twisted Evil
jmlworld wrote:
- When will Iran start messing with the Arab monarchs?
Which ones?
jmlworld wrote:
- Is Obama really American?
Definitely. He speaks the lingo and walks the talk. I don't need to see a Birth Certificate as for me he is his own best evidence.
jmlworld wrote:
- Was Fidel Castro right that Bin Laden was a CIA agent?
This is a new one to me. I would have thought that as a politician and with all the books Obama had written that he would have been too busy to have been working for the CIA as well.
jmlworld wrote:
- Are the Democrats more genius than the Republicans?
For me there is little difference, but right now the Democrats are much better sorted out than the Republicans are. The Republicans are suffering through an identity crisis and lack good Presidential nominees. Whenever I think Palin, my eyes start to roll involuntarily. McCain really needs to retire as well. The Republicans are badly in need of someone young and vibrant to the equivalent of Obama, except maybe younger than Obama.
jmlworld wrote:
- How much money did they spend hunting Bin Laden?
I don't think the presence in the Middle East has been exclusively focused on hunting Bin Laden. If it had, he would have been dead many years ago. Twisted Evil
jwellsy
The reports that I heard was that hey knew where he was for nine months before taking the action.
Nine months ago Obama was not in full campaign mode like he is now.
catscratches
deanhills wrote:

jmlworld wrote:
- If they really killed him, why did they bury him in a sea?
That has me puzzled too. Other than possibly that that was neutral ground. If they had buried him in Pakistan Pakistan would have been in trouble, etc. etc.
They wanted to avoid his burial place becoming a pilgrimage for sympathizers. Though the mansion in which he was killed has become pretty much just that...
ocalhoun
jwellsy wrote:
The reports that I heard was that hey knew where he was for nine months before taking the action.
Nine months ago Obama was not in full campaign mode like he is now.

Even if true, this is not necessarily damning.
It may have taken time to confirm the information without tipping them off, and it also may have taken time to plan and prepare for the operation. May have taken additional time to discreetly get tacit permission from the right places within the Pakistani military.
liljp617
Was the team of SEALs trained for this specific mission nine months ago?
deanhills
jwellsy wrote:
The reports that I heard was that hey knew where he was for nine months before taking the action.
Nine months ago Obama was not in full campaign mode like he is now.
Right, and if it is really true that Bin Laden has been hiding out there for six years, then that makes it even more significant. I'd really like to know how long they've known he was there, if he was there. As that still does not make sense to me, that a fugitive terrorist would be living in the same place for six years. Sort of boggles my mind completely. d'oh!

ocalhoun wrote:
jwellsy wrote:
The reports that I heard was that hey knew where he was for nine months before taking the action.
Nine months ago Obama was not in full campaign mode like he is now.

Even if true, this is not necessarily damning.
It may have taken time to confirm the information without tipping them off, and it also may have taken time to plan and prepare for the operation. May have taken additional time to discreetly get tacit permission from the right places within the Pakistani military.
There are just too many if's for a rational mind to contemplate. I find it completely strange that rational people would say they need evidence for the existence of a deity, and then take everything that Obama says at face value, without the delivery of non-conflicting, unambiguous evidence.

To me logically, if Bin Laden had been there for six years, and the US had only known about it for nine months before they did their hit, then how challenging has this been anyway? In that time they could have easily trained a child to be a pea shooter and sent him/her into the compound over a period of time to shoot Bin Laden. Yet the seals had to be trained for nine months? I'm sure the attack was real, but then if we think back to Iraq and the weapons of mass destruction scenario, it has the same ring of absence of truth in it.
jmlworld
deanhills wrote:
I'm sure the attack was real, but then if we think back to Iraq and the weapons of mass destruction scenario, it has the same ring of absence of truth in it.


Besides, the timing of this incident is strange. As Jwellsy pointed out above, Obama was not in full campaign mode at that time. Also this has come few days after the proofing of his birth certificate.

If it's true that Osama Bin Laden lived there for many years, then the whole intelligence system of the United States is nothing, but a part-time joke.
deanhills
jmlworld wrote:
If it's true that Osama Bin Laden lived there for many years, then the whole intelligence system of the United States is nothing, but a part-time joke.
I'd prefer to think it is very much focused and calculated. There is always a master plan. For example, why did it take so long to apprehend Saddam Hussein? Was that perhaps at the point when he was no longer useful as leader of Iraq? Ditto Bin Laden? Maybe they discovered Bin Laden was no longer useful in his own organization and there is technically a new leader. His capture would give them at least a photo opportunity to cash in on the "excellence" of the military, rather than wait until Bin Laden has been ousted by Al Qaeda?
tech
Quote:
If they really killed him, why did they bury him in a sea?


I heard that the US buried him in the sea, because they tink it would get a pilgrimage site for the members of the al-Qaida. (if in the sea it can't get any)
deanhills
tech wrote:
I heard that the US buried him in the sea, because they tink it would get a pilgrimage site for the members of the al-Qaida. (if in the sea it can't get any)
Wise move. But was he really buried at sea though? Is there documentary evidence for it? We are told he has, but don't people usually ask for documentary proof first? Twisted Evil
ocalhoun
deanhills wrote:
Wise move. But was he really buried at sea though? Is there documentary evidence for it? We are told he has, but don't people usually ask for documentary proof first? Twisted Evil

... And in response to your request, the government releases a video of a short funeral, and then a coffin being dumped into the sea. ^.^

That would convince the conspiracy theorists for sure!



Really, his own network has confirmed that he is dead, what other proof do you need?
(Unless you think that they are conspiring with the US government...)
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
Really, his own network has confirmed that he is dead, what other proof do you need?
(Unless you think that they are conspiring with the US government...)
You got it wrong Ocalhoun. If you read a number of my postings, I conceded that he was dead at the time when Al Qaeda accepted it, a couple of weeks ago. If you read my posting above, I said there was no proof of his burial at sea. In other words there is no proof of how his body was disposed off.
jmlworld
ocalhoun wrote:
Really, his own network has confirmed that he is dead, what other proof do you need?


Really? And who said that they were exactly the real Al-Qaeda? The U.S. could do anything possible to to prove their hype.

Oh, and are there really some notable Al-Qaeda members? I thought they're anonymous individuals scattered across the globe.

tech wrote:
...because they tink it would get a pilgrimage site for the members of the al-Qaida.


They're clueless about the Islamic background of Osama Bin Laden and his followers. He belongs to Wahabi or Salafi branch which strictly forbids making shrines on graves or even visiting the cemetery.

Even the Qur'an and the Hadiths forbid making shrines on graves. Shi'a are the only known Muslim groups who build shrines on cemeteries, and anybody who has a common sense knows the difference between Al-Qaeda and Shi'a Muslims.

Edit: and here is the minimalistic Islamic funeral: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_funeral#Burial

deanhills wrote:
Is there documentary evidence for it? We are told he has, but don't people usually ask for documentary proof first?


Even if they show a video documentary, they'll show a well-covered coffin and few solders giving a tribute to the unknown thing inside the coffin, then the coffin gets dumped into the sea, while nobody ever knows what was inside that coffin.
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