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Michigan Republicans seek to dis-incorporate city official





Navigator
Title shortened for space reasons, the original is:

Michigan Republicans seek power to dis-incorporate whole cities, dismiss elected officials

I don't live in Michigan but this is definitely scary.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/225659-Michigan-Republicans-seek-power-to-dis-incorporate-whole-cities-dismiss-elected-officials
ocalhoun
Odd. I would have thought that they (or the county governments) already had that power...
Shouldn't the people who incorporated a town be able to also un-incorporate the town?

It could obviously be abused, but what power can't?
Navigator
ocalhoun wrote:
Odd. I would have thought that they (or the county governments) already had that power...
Shouldn't the people who incorporated a town be able to also un-incorporate the town?

It could obviously be abused, but what power can't?


An elected official can be dismissed for a variety of reasons, but I don't think they can be just by the decision of a single man, thats not how democracy works.

Here is a Rachel Maddow commentary on the issue, very enlightening

http://www.politicususa.com/en/rachel-maddow-michigan
Voodoocat
Does the government's sovereign immunity extend to bankruptcy? If so, then the munipalities should already be protected from insolvency. Of course, telling your debtors to kiss your sovereign butt and then turning around and asking to borrow money might be awkward Laughing
handfleisch
Navigator wrote:
Title shortened for space reasons, the original is:

Michigan Republicans seek power to dis-incorporate whole cities, dismiss elected officials

I don't live in Michigan but this is definitely scary.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/225659-Michigan-Republicans-seek-power-to-dis-incorporate-whole-cities-dismiss-elected-officials


Thanks for posting this. The bill is being called "financial martial law". While the country is distracted by the civil war in Libya and the tsunami and possible nuclear meltdown in Japan, the newly elected Republicans declare an emergency and give themselves the power to dissolve elected governments under them and to declare union powers null and void. At least the Republicans are showing their true colors, which will help in the growing democracy movement in this country that started in Wisconsin. 100,000 protested against the Republicans in Madison last weekend -- bigger than any Tea Party rally, even the one in Washington DC -- and recall efforts are starting to throw these newly elected extremists out of office as soon as possible.
Navigator
handfleisch wrote:
Navigator wrote:
Title shortened for space reasons, the original is:

Michigan Republicans seek power to dis-incorporate whole cities, dismiss elected officials

I don't live in Michigan but this is definitely scary.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/225659-Michigan-Republicans-seek-power-to-dis-incorporate-whole-cities-dismiss-elected-officials


Thanks for posting this. The bill is being called "financial martial law". While the country is distracted by the civil war in Libya and the tsunami and possible nuclear meltdown in Japan, the newly elected Republicans declare an emergency and give themselves the power to dissolve elected governments under them and to declare union powers null and void. At least the Republicans are showing their true colors, which will help in the growing democracy movement in this country that started in Wisconsin. 100,000 protested against the Republicans in Madison last weekend -- bigger than any Tea Party rally, even the one in Washington DC -- and recall efforts are starting to throw these newly elected extremists out of office as soon as possible.


Yeah, situation in Wisconsin is quite amazing too, but in a positive way, people defending their rights straight on the street and in peaceful ways. Here is a Michael Moore video at a rally which is very inspiring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgNuSEZ8CDw
Navigator
UPDATE:

Quote:
Detroit - The Michigan House gave final approval on Tuesday to granting state-appointed emergency managers broad powers to break labor deals with failing schools an cities, and the plan is expected to be signed into law. New Republican Governor Rick Snyder, who is expected to sign the draft law soon, asked for the plan to extend the powers of emergency managers appointed to save failing programs. Detroit Public Schools, the state's largest district, has been under emergency management for two years. House members voted 62-48 to approve an amended version of the bill Senators passed last week. Several Democratic attempts to change the bill were rejected before the final vote. Last week, hundreds of pro-union demonstrators had jammed the Capitol in Lansing from the rotunda to the floors above to protest the plan in a scene similar to the weeks of opposition raised by workers at the Wisconsin Capitol in Madison.


http://www.sott.net/articles/show/225908-U-S-State-of-Michigan-set-to-allow-voiding-of-union-contracts
jmi256
Navigator wrote:
Yeah, situation in Wisconsin is quite amazing too, but in a positive way, people defending their rights straight on the street and in peaceful ways.


Peaceful? Really? Special interests and violent unions stopping the democratic process by any means necessary, including violence, is “peaceful”? And some would have you believe the worst things these people do is order bad food for their meetings. Liar Just goes to show you the willful ignorance of the Left. Here’s an example of their “peaceful” protest:

Quote:
Capitol Chaos: Lawmakers Get Death Threats


MADISON - The State Department of Justice confirms that it is investigating several death threats against a number of lawmakers in response to the legislature's move to strip employees of many collective bargaining rights.

Among the threats the Justice Department is investigationg is one that was emailed to Republican Senators Wednesday night. Newsradio 620 WTMJ has obtained that email.

The following is the unedited email:

Quote:
Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks. Please explain to them that this is because if we get rid of you and your families then it will save the rights of 300,000 people and also be able to close the deficit that you have created. I hope you have a good time in hell. Read below for more information on possible scenarios in which you will die.

WE want to make this perfectly clear. Because of your actions today and in the past couple of weeks I and the group of people that are working with me have decided that we've had enough. We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die. We have tried many other ways of dealing with your corruption but you have taken things too far and we will not stand for it any longer. So, this is how it's going to happen: I as well as many others know where you and your family live, it's a matter of public records.

We have all planned to assult you by arriving at your house and putting a nice little bullet in your head.
However, we decided that we wouldn't leave it there. We also have decided that this may not be enough to send the message to you since you are so "high" on Koch and have decided that you are now going to single handedly make this a dictatorship instead of a demorcratic process. So we have also built several bombs that we have placed in various locations around the areas in which we know that you frequent.

This includes, your house, your car, the state capitol, and well I won't tell you all of them because that's just no fun. Since we know that you are not smart enough to figure out why this is happening to you we have decided to make it perfectly clear to you. If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will "get rid of" (in which I mean kill) you. Please understand that this does not include the heroic Rep. Senator that risked everything to go aganist what you and your goonies wanted him to do. We feel that it's worth our lives to do this, because we would be saving the lives of 300,000 people. Please make your peace with God as soon as possible and say goodbye to your loved ones we will not wait any longer. YOU WILL DIE!!!!

Source = http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/117732923.html


And the typical lefty temper tantrum continues. In other words, the Left has fallen back on their typical mantra of “Do what we say!! Or else!!!”


Quote:
18 Republican senators from Wisconsin report getting death threats after passing bill to end collective bargaining for most public workers


SHEBOYGAN — State Sens. Joe Leibham and Glenn Grothman said they are among as many as 18 Republican senators who received a death threat following their votes to eliminate most collective bargaining powers for public workers.

The threat was sent in an e-mail late Wednesday with the subject, "Death threat!!!! Bomb!!!!" according to a copy of the letter released by Grothman's office. The e-mail also was addressed to Sen. Pam Galloway, R-Wausau.

Grothman, R-West Bend, said the e-mail is the latest example of "a new height in incivility." He said in recent weeks he has received obscene phone calls at all hours of the night, been jostled at the Capitol and has been shouted down during interviews.

"This is another example of the anger which is being spewed by the government unions," Grothman said. "This has been all about intimidating … Republican legislators into bowing to the public unions, and it has only steeled our resolve."

Grothman said he is hesitant to completely disregard the threat given the volatile atmosphere in Madison. A note shoved under his door Wednesday night said, "The only good Republican is a dead Republican."

With Democratic senators out of state, Republican senators late Wednesday separated the collective bargaining elements from Gov. Scott Walker's budget repair bill. Republicans voted 18-1 to eliminate collective bargaining for public workers in Wisconsin aside from some wage negotiations. Leibham and Grothman supported the measure.

Leibham, of Sheboygan, said the threat came to him via e-mail as well, and his staff contacted police at the Capitol and in Madison.

The letter tells lawmakers to "make your peace with God as soon as possible and say goodbye to your loved ones," warning they will be killed "due to your actions in the last eight weeks."

The letter, which is signed, says the writer is working with a group of people and knows where the legislators live. It says legislators may be shot in their homes or killed with bombs placed at locations they frequent.

"We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die," the letter reads. "If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will 'get rid of' (in which I mean kill) you."

Leibham said that even with the vehement protests, the democratic process is working just the way it's supposed to during the budget debate.

"We debate bills, a vote has taken place, and now the public has the right to hold me accountable either favorably or negatively for that vote," he said. "Not through threats or other means, it's through the election process. I'm just hoping for the protesters' sake and for legislators' sake it's being done in a safe way because it's been getting a little bit intense from a safety standpoint. I don't want anybody … to get themselves hurt or injured as they passionately protest."

Source = http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20110311/WDH0101/303110067/Multimedia-18-GOP-senators-report-getting-death-threats?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
Navigator
jmi256 wrote:
Navigator wrote:
Yeah, situation in Wisconsin is quite amazing too, but in a positive way, people defending their rights straight on the street and in peaceful ways.


Peaceful? Really? Special interests and violent unions stopping the democratic process by any means necessary, including violence, is “peaceful”? And some would have you believe the worst things these people do is order bad food for their meetings. Liar Just goes to show you the willful ignorance of the Left. Here’s an example of their “peaceful” protest:

Quote:
Capitol Chaos: Lawmakers Get Death Threats


MADISON - The State Department of Justice confirms that it is investigating several death threats against a number of lawmakers in response to the legislature's move to strip employees of many collective bargaining rights.

Among the threats the Justice Department is investigationg is one that was emailed to Republican Senators Wednesday night. Newsradio 620 WTMJ has obtained that email.

The following is the unedited email:

Quote:
Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks. Please explain to them that this is because if we get rid of you and your families then it will save the rights of 300,000 people and also be able to close the deficit that you have created. I hope you have a good time in hell. Read below for more information on possible scenarios in which you will die.

WE want to make this perfectly clear. Because of your actions today and in the past couple of weeks I and the group of people that are working with me have decided that we've had enough. We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die. We have tried many other ways of dealing with your corruption but you have taken things too far and we will not stand for it any longer. So, this is how it's going to happen: I as well as many others know where you and your family live, it's a matter of public records.

We have all planned to assult you by arriving at your house and putting a nice little bullet in your head.
However, we decided that we wouldn't leave it there. We also have decided that this may not be enough to send the message to you since you are so "high" on Koch and have decided that you are now going to single handedly make this a dictatorship instead of a demorcratic process. So we have also built several bombs that we have placed in various locations around the areas in which we know that you frequent.

This includes, your house, your car, the state capitol, and well I won't tell you all of them because that's just no fun. Since we know that you are not smart enough to figure out why this is happening to you we have decided to make it perfectly clear to you. If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will "get rid of" (in which I mean kill) you. Please understand that this does not include the heroic Rep. Senator that risked everything to go aganist what you and your goonies wanted him to do. We feel that it's worth our lives to do this, because we would be saving the lives of 300,000 people. Please make your peace with God as soon as possible and say goodbye to your loved ones we will not wait any longer. YOU WILL DIE!!!!

Source = http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/117732923.html


And the typical lefty temper tantrum continues. In other words, the Left has fallen back on their typical mantra of “Do what we say!! Or else!!!”


Quote:
18 Republican senators from Wisconsin report getting death threats after passing bill to end collective bargaining for most public workers


SHEBOYGAN — State Sens. Joe Leibham and Glenn Grothman said they are among as many as 18 Republican senators who received a death threat following their votes to eliminate most collective bargaining powers for public workers.

The threat was sent in an e-mail late Wednesday with the subject, "Death threat!!!! Bomb!!!!" according to a copy of the letter released by Grothman's office. The e-mail also was addressed to Sen. Pam Galloway, R-Wausau.

Grothman, R-West Bend, said the e-mail is the latest example of "a new height in incivility." He said in recent weeks he has received obscene phone calls at all hours of the night, been jostled at the Capitol and has been shouted down during interviews.

"This is another example of the anger which is being spewed by the government unions," Grothman said. "This has been all about intimidating … Republican legislators into bowing to the public unions, and it has only steeled our resolve."

Grothman said he is hesitant to completely disregard the threat given the volatile atmosphere in Madison. A note shoved under his door Wednesday night said, "The only good Republican is a dead Republican."

With Democratic senators out of state, Republican senators late Wednesday separated the collective bargaining elements from Gov. Scott Walker's budget repair bill. Republicans voted 18-1 to eliminate collective bargaining for public workers in Wisconsin aside from some wage negotiations. Leibham and Grothman supported the measure.

Leibham, of Sheboygan, said the threat came to him via e-mail as well, and his staff contacted police at the Capitol and in Madison.

The letter tells lawmakers to "make your peace with God as soon as possible and say goodbye to your loved ones," warning they will be killed "due to your actions in the last eight weeks."

The letter, which is signed, says the writer is working with a group of people and knows where the legislators live. It says legislators may be shot in their homes or killed with bombs placed at locations they frequent.

"We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die," the letter reads. "If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will 'get rid of' (in which I mean kill) you."

Leibham said that even with the vehement protests, the democratic process is working just the way it's supposed to during the budget debate.

"We debate bills, a vote has taken place, and now the public has the right to hold me accountable either favorably or negatively for that vote," he said. "Not through threats or other means, it's through the election process. I'm just hoping for the protesters' sake and for legislators' sake it's being done in a safe way because it's been getting a little bit intense from a safety standpoint. I don't want anybody … to get themselves hurt or injured as they passionately protest."

Source = http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20110311/WDH0101/303110067/Multimedia-18-GOP-senators-report-getting-death-threats?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE


You are aware that when I say protests I say people on the street, don't you?
handfleisch
Navigator wrote:

jmi256 wrote:


You are aware that when I say protests I say people on the street, don't you?


Nav, there's not much point in debating the reports from Planet jmi256, except maybe for laughs or for practice analyzing logical fallacies and propaganda. This post is typical of his black-is-white logic, which the anti-democratic forces in Wisconsin and around the country would like us to believe: The peaceful protests were not peaceful because some anonymous emails were sent that were not peaceful. In fact, according to his own sources, it's ONE SINGLE EMAIL sent to different people. JMI can't come up with more than that, but then he uses this to blab about "violent unions stopping the democratic process by any means necessary, including violence, is 'peaceful'?" This is tinfoil hat territory. We don't need to waste time on such nonsense.
deanhills
Sounds a bit extreme, but if some of the municipalities are bankrupt, this could be a solution. What would the alternatives be? Are there funds available to bale them out?
jmi256
These guys below? Yeah I’m talking about them. Pretty nice bunch. Rolling Eyes


















handfleisch
jmi256 wrote:
These guys below? Yeah I’m talking about them. Pretty nice bunch.

Required reading:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
Navigator
handfleisch wrote:
Navigator wrote:

jmi256 wrote:


You are aware that when I say protests I say people on the street, don't you?


Nav, there's not much point in debating the reports from Planet jmi256, except maybe for laughs or for practice analyzing logical fallacies and propaganda. This post is typical of his black-is-white logic, which the anti-democratic forces in Wisconsin and around the country would like us to believe: The peaceful protests were not peaceful because some anonymous emails were sent that were not peaceful. In fact, according to his own sources, it's ONE SINGLE EMAIL sent to different people. JMI can't come up with more than that, but then he uses this to blab about "violent unions stopping the democratic process by any means necessary, including violence, is 'peaceful'?" This is tinfoil hat territory. We don't need to waste time on such nonsense.


Absolutely, thanks handfleisch.
deanhills
handfleisch wrote:
Nav, there's not much point in debating the reports from Planet jmi256, except maybe for laughs or for practice analyzing logical fallacies and propaganda. This post is typical of his black-is-white logic, which the anti-democratic forces in Wisconsin and around the country would like us to believe: The peaceful protests were not peaceful because some anonymous emails were sent that were not peaceful. In fact, according to his own sources, it's ONE SINGLE EMAIL sent to different people. JMI can't come up with more than that, but then he uses this to blab about "violent unions stopping the democratic process by any means necessary, including violence, is 'peaceful'?" This is tinfoil hat territory. We don't need to waste time on such nonsense.
So are you then supporting the position of Navigator's that the protests in Wisconsin had been peaceful entirely? As that would be a departure from your OP post in your "From Egypt to Wisconsin" thread where you tried to connect the "peaceful demonstrations" up with the situation in Egypt. Navigator made a statement of peaceful demonstration in Wisconsin, and that statement was challenged by jmi. If one reads your OP in the "From Egypt to Wisconsin" thread, then I would say you agree with jmi that the protests had not been peaceful. Perhaps Navigator, if he has not already done that, should study the "From Egypt to Wisconsin" thread in order to get an accurate picture of your and jmi's positions with regard to the Wisconsin protests. I don't think they are the same as Navigator's at all.
Navigator
deanhills wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
Nav, there's not much point in debating the reports from Planet jmi256, except maybe for laughs or for practice analyzing logical fallacies and propaganda. This post is typical of his black-is-white logic, which the anti-democratic forces in Wisconsin and around the country would like us to believe: The peaceful protests were not peaceful because some anonymous emails were sent that were not peaceful. In fact, according to his own sources, it's ONE SINGLE EMAIL sent to different people. JMI can't come up with more than that, but then he uses this to blab about "violent unions stopping the democratic process by any means necessary, including violence, is 'peaceful'?" This is tinfoil hat territory. We don't need to waste time on such nonsense.
So are you then supporting the position of Navigator's that the protests in Wisconsin had been peaceful entirely? As that would be a departure from your OP post in your "From Egypt to Wisconsin" thread where you tried to connect the "peaceful demonstrations" up with the situation in Egypt. Navigator made a statement of peaceful demonstration in Wisconsin, and that statement was challenged by jmi. If one reads your OP in the "From Egypt to Wisconsin" thread, then I would say you agree with jmi that the protests had not been peaceful. Perhaps Navigator, if he has not already done that, should study the "From Egypt to Wisconsin" thread in order to get an accurate picture of your and jmi's positions with regard to the Wisconsin protests. I don't think they are the same as Navigator's at all.


Oh I wasn't aware of that thread, looks like a preliminary read before posting here again.
handfleisch
Navigator wrote:
deanhills wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
Nav, there's not much point in debating the reports from Planet jmi256, except maybe for laughs or for practice analyzing logical fallacies and propaganda. This post is typical of his black-is-white logic, which the anti-democratic forces in Wisconsin and around the country would like us to believe: The peaceful protests were not peaceful because some anonymous emails were sent that were not peaceful. In fact, according to his own sources, it's ONE SINGLE EMAIL sent to different people. JMI can't come up with more than that, but then he uses this to blab about "violent unions stopping the democratic process by any means necessary, including violence, is 'peaceful'?" This is tinfoil hat territory. We don't need to waste time on such nonsense.
So are you then supporting the position of Navigator's that the protests in Wisconsin had been peaceful entirely? As that would be a departure from your OP post in your "From Egypt to Wisconsin" thread where you tried to connect the "peaceful demonstrations" up with the situation in Egypt. Navigator made a statement of peaceful demonstration in Wisconsin, and that statement was challenged by jmi. If one reads your OP in the "From Egypt to Wisconsin" thread, then I would say you agree with jmi that the protests had not been peaceful. Perhaps Navigator, if he has not already done that, should study the "From Egypt to Wisconsin" thread in order to get an accurate picture of your and jmi's positions with regard to the Wisconsin protests. I don't think they are the same as Navigator's at all.


Oh I wasn't aware of that thread, looks like a preliminary read before posting here again.


I think this separate thread is fine, since it's sort of Michigan's sinister new GOP governor's anti-democracy actions, while the other is Wisconsin's sinister new GOP governor and his similar action (even though the two threads overlap in terms of the nationwide protests and recall efforts by the new democracy movement in the USA). About Deanhill's bizarre post, he has clear problems with words, meanings, concepts and basic rationality. Why he thinks that I said the Wisconsin protests are not peaceful is known only to him and I'd rather keep it that way.
Navigator
Now that I have read that thread, I see no reason for a heated debate guys. The things happening in Michigan and Wisconsin go beyond a public vs private employees or a matter of taking strong action to stop a financial crisis. Its clearly a matter of shock doctrine, I think.
deanhills
Navigator wrote:
Now that I have read that thread, I see no reason for a heated debate guys. The things happening in Michigan and Wisconsin go beyond a public vs private employees or a matter of taking strong action to stop a financial crisis. Its clearly a matter of shock doctrine, I think.
Interesting show. Sort of gets me back to Sept11 as that was a shock therapy of gigantic proportions. And now something similar is happening with the nuclear reactor crisis in Japan. Competitors with a vested interest in the nuclear reactors failing are working hard at maximizing their gains while this crisis is lasting. The Shock Doctrine Show is right however, the shock will wear off eventually. And when that happens, the shoe may move to the other foot, like Bush went from being popular to probably the most unpopular President ever in the history of the United States.

In this particular example, I don't think it can be compared with Egypt, Setp11 or any other natural disaster. The closest to a comparison one can get is that people are unemployed, and probably in a shocked state as a result, so now would be the opportunity for States to put through unpopular legislation to sort out the Unions. In the case of Wisconsin, the Unions did not allow the State to get away with it, without hearing the workers protest. In the case of Michigan, where legislation is being considered for putting up Municipalities to the highest bidder, would be interesting to see how that will be faring. In the end however, hopefully those who are in a state of shock will get over their shock, and if things are still bad economy wise, wonder whether this could result in a civil revolution?
gandalfthegrey
The Republicans are slowly turning into fascists.
deanhills
gandalfthegrey wrote:
The Republicans are slowly turning into fascists.
Wow! Isn't that a bit stereotyping? Also, fascists can be found almost in any political party.

Having said that though, I would be interested to know why you think Republicans are slowly turning into fascists? Smile
ocalhoun
deanhills wrote:
gandalfthegrey wrote:
The Republicans are slowly turning into fascists.
Wow! Isn't that a bit stereotyping? Also, fascists can be found almost in any political party.

Having said that though, I would be interested to know why you think Republicans are slowly turning into fascists? Smile


To be fair, if you look at the kinds of things they've been doing lately...




--I'm still hoping that as both left and right wings become more authoritarian, a third anti-authoritarian party will emerge.
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
--I'm still hoping that as both left and right wings become more authoritarian, a third anti-authoritarian party will emerge.
Let me guess .... would that be the Libertarians? Twisted Evil
ocalhoun
deanhills wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
--I'm still hoping that as both left and right wings become more authoritarian, a third anti-authoritarian party will emerge.
Let me guess .... would that be the Libertarians? Twisted Evil


Depends on the definition of libertarian you use.

Too many right-wingers calling themselves libertarians these days.
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
Too many right-wingers calling themselves libertarians these days.
OK. then probably you would have to start your own party? That I'm sure will be a huge improvement, but can't imagine you would want to be a politician, which brings one to an important question. People who are much better qualified to be leaders in Government, not being interested in the job. If one looks around the globe, I don't see much talent as far as "leaders" are concerned. Do you? Would that ever change? Looks as though really good leaders only seem to surface during real crises such as during war, and then soon after war, they seem to vanish into industry or other pursuits, rather than staying on in politics.
ocalhoun
deanhills wrote:
Looks as though really good leaders only seem to surface during real crises such as during war, and then soon after war, they seem to vanish into industry or other pursuits, rather than staying on in politics.

Or, perhaps (popular) wars serve to make the leader during that time more popular, and causes them to be remembered as 'great'... When the same leader may have been thought mediocre, or even hated, had he led in a time of peace.
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
Or, perhaps (popular) wars serve to make the leader during that time more popular, and causes them to be remembered as 'great'... When the same leader may have been thought mediocre, or even hated, had he led in a time of peace.
Good point, I can't argue with that. Smile Wars seem to force people to act in the moment, be more alive and take chances that they may not take during peace time.
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