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From Egypt to Wisconsin? Anti-Tea Party Protest in WISCONSIN





handfleisch
Looks like a real Tahrir-square-style Tea Party is happening in Wisconsin as firefighters and working people demonstrate against the new Tea Party Republican governor's plan to strip them of rights they fought and died for 50 years ago. What's next, removing the eight-hour day so employers can demand people work 12 hour shifts?

By the way, where's the Tea Party movement in this, why aren't they supporting the Wisconsin rights demonstrators?



Quote:
MADISON, Wis. -- Thousands of teachers, prison guards and students descended on the Wisconsin Capitol on Wednesday to try to preserve the union rights of public employees in the state that was the first to grant collective bargaining to government workers more than a half-century ago.

The new Republican governor, Scott Walker, is seeking passage of the nation's most aggressive anti-union proposal - a plan that would all but eliminate the bargaining process for most public employees.

Read more: http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/02/15/2273761/wis-gop-poised-to-cut-worker-rights.html#ixzz1EAXJA1N8
ocalhoun
handfleisch wrote:
What's next, removing the eight-hour day so employers can demand people work 12 hour shifts?

Employers?
From what the article said, it only affected a government-worker's union, so only state employees would be at any risk of this.



Also, I don't understand why you're talking about the tea party... The article didn't mention them at all.
deanhills
@Ocalhoun. Handfleisch has always equated the Tea Party with a bunch of unruly hooligans. So this would be probably just the place for them to pitch their tents and bring out their banners. I don't see it happening however, looks as though the Republicans want to show up California with regard to how to deal effectively with the Unions? Would be interesting if they are going to be successful with getting the anti-union bill passed? I like what Governor Scott Walker had to say about it, as he does not seem to be fearful of the demonstrations:
Quote:
Walker said he appreciated the concerns of protesters, but taxpayers "need to be heard as well." Although he said he was open to making changes, he promised not to do anything that would "fundamentally undermine the principles" of the bill.
Good for him!

Source: fresnobee.com
jwellsy
What happened to to all the whining about the lack of civility?
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/02/17/the-historical-illiteracy-of-wisconsin-teachers/


Expecting workers to contribute something towards their own health insurance and retirement is not unreasonable.
deanhills
jwellsy wrote:
Expecting workers to contribute something towards their own health insurance and retirement is not unreasonable.
Completely agreed. Although Obama seems to have a different plan for health insurance. I thought he wanted to make all employers responsible for providing health insurance to their employees?
handfleisch
This has nothing to do with anybody paying their health insurance premiums. It's pure politics, with Republicans taking aim at the last large progressive groups that have any power, in order to give total dominance to the corporate power over elections.

Here's an outline of what's going on in Wisconsin:

A new Republican Governor, Scott Walker, is elected, and Republicans control the state senate. The governor was elected with the support of only three unions, the police, firefighters and the troopers.
The state had a budget surplus.
The governor pushes for tax cuts for businesses, which creates a deficit.
The Governor declares a budget crisis.
Due to the crisis, he tries to cut the rights of state union employees, including their rights to even bargain, a right that was gained 50 years ago. He exempts firefighters, police and troopers.
The public stages mass protests. Firefighters, police and the Super Bowl champion Green Bay Packers announce their support for and join the protests.
The Democrats walk out of the state senate to block any further moves to deny rights to anybody.
The protests go on, the biggest in Wisconsin since the Vietnam War.

It's a pretty clear cut issue. It's Republicans attacking unions because they are the most powerful groups on the progressive side. It's politics, not budget problems.
deanhills
I thought it was a good move to implement tax cuts for business when the economy was in real trouble. At least the money went to people who can create jobs for people. I also think it is a good move to lessen the power of the unions. And perhaps the timing is really great for it, as there is such a shortage of jobs right now. If I had a manufacturing business then I would not want to hire the guy who is carrying the placard in the picture above with a cigarette in his hand. I'd rather employ people who are grateful to have jobs.

By the way Handfleisch, you still have not explained why the Tea Party should be involved?
handfleisch
ocalhoun wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
What's next, removing the eight-hour day so employers can demand people work 12 hour shifts?

Employers?
From what the article said, it only affected a government-worker's union, so only state employees would be at any risk of this.


What do you mean, state employees don't have employers?
Quote:
Also, I don't understand why you're talking about the tea party... The article didn't mention them at all.


First of all the irony that now we have a real grass-roots protest and it's against the Tea Party governor. Second, why aren't the Tea Party groups coming out in support of the protest, isn't this exactly what the Tea Party was supposed to be about, regular people standing up for their rights?

In case anyone says Scott Walker is not Tea Party, here's from his own website:
Quote:

Lots of people who support the Tea Party movement have backed Scott Walker enthusiastically and we appreciate their dedication to helping elect Scott. Scott has been endorsed by the Northwoods Patriots and the Fox Valley Initiative. Also check out this video of Scott Walker speaking at the Washington County Tea Party:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2LF6rmRe0g0J:www.scottwalker.org/blog/2010/09/neumann-misleads-voters-tea-party-endorsement+%22scott+walker%22+tea+party&cd=13&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
jwellsy
handfleisch wrote:
This has nothing to do with anybody paying their health insurance premiums. It's pure politics, with Republicans taking aim at the last large progressive groups that have any power, in order to give total dominance to the corporate power over elections.

Here's an outline of what's going on in Wisconsin:

A new Republican Governor, Scott Walker, is elected, and Republicans control the state senate. The governor was elected with the support of only three unions, the police, firefighters and the troopers.
The state had a budget surplus.
The governor pushes for tax cuts for businesses, which creates a deficit.
The Governor declares a budget crisis.
Due to the crisis, he tries to cut the rights of state union employees, including their rights to even bargain, a right that was gained 50 years ago. He exempts firefighters, police and troopers.
The public stages mass protests. Firefighters, police and the Super Bowl champion Green Bay Packers announce their support for and join the protests.
The Democrats walk out of the state senate to block any further moves to deny rights to anybody.
The protests go on, the biggest in Wisconsin since the Vietnam War.

It's a pretty clear cut issue. It's Republicans attacking unions because they are the most powerful groups on the progressive side. It's politics, not budget problems.


Quote tags and sources?
Voodoocat
Scott Walker and the Wisconsin Repbulicans are attempting to bring Wisconsin State Employee benefits on par with those of many other States.

Quote:
Facing a $137 million budget deficit, he has decided to try to avoid laying off 5,500 state workers by proposing that they contribute 5.8% of their income towards their pensions and 12.6% towards health insurance. That's roughly the national average for public pension payments, and it is less than half the national average of what government workers contribute to health care. Mr. Walker also wants to limit the power of public-employee unions to negotiate contracts and work rules—something that 24 states already limit or ban


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704900004576152172777557748.html

Wisconsin, along with every other State in the Union as well as the Federal government itself, has ran out of money. Pure and simple. Obviously, from the quote above, what Scott Walker is asking for is on par with many other States.

On the other hand, it warms my heart that Wisconsin teachers are so dedicated to their jobs that they walk off the job and ignore the educational needs of their students.

Of course when your average salary is only 50,000 dollars a year (and that is for only working three quarters of the year) I can understand why you can't pay any more for your benefits Rolling Eyes Just think, a two teacher household will earn over $100,000 a year and get their summers off.

Quote:
Geographic location is another significant reason for variation in Wisconsin teaching salaries. Areas that have a higher cost of living often pay correspondingly higher salaries. Below are average annual earnings for secondary school teachers in five of the largest metropolitan areas in the state: (4)

•Green Bay: $55,110
•Kenosha: $68,400
•Madison: $50,770
•Milwaukee: $54,620
•Racine: $49,710


http://www.teacher-world.com/teacher-salary/wisconsin.html[/quote]

Still feel sorry for these "underpaid" teachers?
ocalhoun
handfleisch wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
What's next, removing the eight-hour day so employers can demand people work 12 hour shifts?

Employers?
From what the article said, it only affected a government-worker's union, so only state employees would be at any risk of this.


What do you mean, state employees don't have employers?

No, they don't have employers. They have only 1 employer - the state.
Oddly enough, they already have a vote in how the state treats its workers... Do you really think that the state itself will become an abusive employer?
I thought you loved and trusted the government... ?
handfleisch
ocalhoun wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
What's next, removing the eight-hour day so employers can demand people work 12 hour shifts?

Employers?
From what the article said, it only affected a government-worker's union, so only state employees would be at any risk of this.


What do you mean, state employees don't have employers?

No, they don't have employers. They have only 1 employer - the state.
Oddly enough, they already have a vote in how the state treats its workers... Do you really think that the state itself will become an abusive employer?
I thought you loved and trusted the government... ?

Do you like being a troll, or can you just not help yourself? Only a troll posts things like that last one. Only a troll splits hairs while ignoring the point.

I hesitated before answering above, but decided you might give a more decent answer than the rest of them on the thread. I was wrong. So thanks for making this forum completely useless, the usual playground for Glenn Beck conspiracy theorists, FOX koolaid drinkers, knee jerk right wingers and libertarian fantasylanders.
handfleisch
Voodoocat wrote:
Scott Walker and the Wisconsin Repbulicans are attempting to bring Wisconsin State Employee benefits on par with those of many other States.

Quote:
Facing a $137 million budget deficit, he has decided to try to avoid laying off 5,500 state workers by proposing that they contribute 5.8% of their income towards their pensions and 12.6% towards health insurance. That's roughly the national average for public pension payments, and it is less than half the national average of what government workers contribute to health care. Mr. Walker also wants to limit the power of public-employee unions to negotiate contracts and work rules—something that 24 states already limit or ban


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704900004576152172777557748.html

Wisconsin, along with every other State in the Union as well as the Federal government itself, has ran out of money. Pure and simple. Obviously, from the quote above, what Scott Walker is asking for is on par with many other States.

On the other hand, it warms my heart that Wisconsin teachers are so dedicated to their jobs that they walk off the job and ignore the educational needs of their students.

Of course when your average salary is only 50,000 dollars a year (and that is for only working three quarters of the year) I can understand why you can't pay any more for your benefits :roll: Just think, a two teacher household will earn over $100,000 a year and get their summers off.

Quote:
Geographic location is another significant reason for variation in Wisconsin teaching salaries. Areas that have a higher cost of living often pay correspondingly higher salaries. Below are average annual earnings for secondary school teachers in five of the largest metropolitan areas in the state: (4)

•Green Bay: $55,110
•Kenosha: $68,400
•Madison: $50,770
•Milwaukee: $54,620
•Racine: $49,710


http://www.teacher-world.com/teacher-salary/wisconsin.html

Hi Vood, I'll give you one more chance to deal with some truth, to see if you really care, or if you just love believing/spreading falsehoods.

The oped page of the WSJ is a very bad place to get info. John Fund is a clumsy hack, a Rush Limbaugh co-author. What he doesn't tell you about the Wisconsin deficit is that Governor Walker created the worst of it. Wisconsin was doing quite well compared to other states and had a budget surplus before he cut taxes for businesses and payouts to special interests, many of which benefited the wealthy.

Wisconsin's official, nonpartisan fiscal office reported a surplus for this year before the governor started and says the deficit was created by Walker's actions: http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf

Now ask yourself, why is FOX and so-called Conservatives supporting a governor who is so fiscally irresponsible to create a deficit like that? Why would a Republican governor create a budget crisis and then attack unions and teachers except for reasons of dirty, harmful politics? And why are people like you ready to hate on and blame teachers of all people for this country's budget problems? Why aren't you proud of them sticking up for themselves? Because one clue I can offer you is that teachers are not behind this country's budget crisis!
Quote:

After becoming governor, Walker immediately passed a couple of tax cuts that turned what would have been a budget surplus into a $137 million budget deficit for the current fiscal year.


http://www.onewisconsinnow.org/press/walker-concocts-scoop-and-toss-borrowing-scheme-to-pay-for-140-million-in-special-interest-spending.html
30,000 protesters in Madison! It's Green Bay Packer and Firefighters supporting workers and jobs vs. Neocons supporting the financial elite
ocalhoun
handfleisch wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
What's next, removing the eight-hour day so employers can demand people work 12 hour shifts?

Employers?
From what the article said, it only affected a government-worker's union, so only state employees would be at any risk of this.


What do you mean, state employees don't have employers?

No, they don't have employers. They have only 1 employer - the state.
Oddly enough, they already have a vote in how the state treats its workers... Do you really think that the state itself will become an abusive employer?
I thought you loved and trusted the government... ?

Do you like being a troll, or can you just not help yourself? Only a troll posts things like that last one. Only a troll splits hairs while ignoring the point.

Splitting hairs, eh?
If you need the point given more clearly, here it is:
My point is that state workers don't need a union to fight for their rights/privileges - if any employer should be trusted not to abuse workers, the state itself should be, as the state is accountable to the people in a way no private employer is.
deanhills
handfleisch wrote:
In case anyone says Scott Walker is not Tea Party, here's from his own website:
You seem to be debating yourself on this one handfleisch. Maybe your stereotype description of the Tea Party as being a gang of hooligans was never quite on the number. It was more about lack of efficient Government from a financial point of view. In this case it is about the Unions and perhaps the Tea Party supports the lessening of power of the Unions. They don't want to go in the same direction as California did with its mismanagement of its Unions.
handfleisch
Pizza-solidarity
http://slatest.slate.com/id/2285906/
Quote:
Egyptians Order Pizza for Wisconsin Protesters

In an act of intercontinental solidarity, an Egyptian has ordered a pizza for Wisconsin protesters, reports Politico. The call from Africa is just one of many streaming into the Madison, Wisc., pizza parlor Ian's from all over the world. So far, people from 12 countries and 38 states have rung up looking to help get free pizza to the Wisconsin protesters clustered in the Capitol. On Saturday, Ian's distributed more than 1,000 free slices and sent 300 pizzas to the Capitol. The trend continued on Sunday, as staff member fielded calls from as far away as Turkey, Korea, Finland, China, and Australia. The trend began when a mother of a University of Wisconsin student called in offering to donate $200 to feed the people occupying the Capitol. The pizza chain's postings on Twitter and Facebook soon led to so many donations that they had to shut down on Saturday night.
deanhills
I don't see a link with the Egyptian situation at all. A gift of pizzas does not make a real point to me either, except that the guys who are striking must be deluded they are doing something noble. They are striking ... as simple as that.
handfleisch
Wisconsin protesters chant "Fox lies" during Fox reporter's broadcast

ocalhoun
handfleisch wrote:
chant "Fox lies" during Fox reporter's broadcast

Okay, now that's funny. ^.^
standready
Right or wrong issue does not matter. Democrats in Wisconsin and now Indiana also are sitting a very dangerous precedence. If we don't like what is about to be voted on, RUN! Majority be damned! There is the real "shame".
I expect more out of my elected officials. I expect them to stand up not RUN away and except what happens. If the voters don't like what the elected officials have done, the officials will get voted out of office.
handfleisch
michaelagustin
SOON this tragedy that libya faced this year must be in peaceful and quite end...
gandalfthegrey
The tea party has no direction. Most are right-leaning (and likely to support the governor), but their are many left-leaning libertarians in the Tea Party that would/could/should support the Wisconsin rights protestors. Where are they? Maybe they have already denounced their support for the tea party and are already amongst the crowd.
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