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Buddhism - i need a word with someone who really knows it!





D'Artagnan
I find Buddhism quite interesting,
i can understand most of the ideas, just until it hits the spiritual part, i mean am i getting everything wrong?
Bikerman
There is plenty of information on Buddhism on the net.
For example:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/buddhism/
http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/The_Basics_What_the_Buddha_Taught.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/buddhism.htm
deanhills
D'Artagnan wrote:
I find Buddhism quite interesting,
i can understand most of the ideas, just until it hits the spiritual part, i mean am i getting everything wrong?
Which spiritual ideas are puzzling you?
D'Artagnan
Quote:

There is plenty of information on Buddhism on the net.


quite good reads (this one is awesome thanks)but still, nothing like talking face to other human beings!

Quote:
Which spiritual ideas are puzzling you?


Well the ideas related life as a cycle of "suffering" , even appearing in other religions, are much more consistent and the idea that this "suffering" is our very own fault, because we hold to something mondane and fleeting to be happy and cease suffering ...

i whish to understand more, but i can't really shake everything i've seen before about buddhism, for example the explanations about spirits that are given seems to folklorical - i have a hard time accepting everything spiritual as truth, and that animals and pretas explanations are just like deamons which by nature i only can doubt of.

and the rites , thechanting to me they look just like prayer, whish to me is nice but i think is just a way to feel better with yourself , they hold meaning to oneself more then they do good , i don't understand why should for example you ring bells and put statues of buddhas. isn't that the very attachment that makes us suffer?
ocalhoun
D'Artagnan wrote:

Well the ideas related life as a cycle of "suffering" , even appearing in other religions, are much more consistent and the idea that this "suffering" is our very own fault, because we hold to something mondane and fleeting to be happy and cease suffering ...

Well, that's my major disagreement with Buddhism; I don't see life as endless suffering... I rather enjoy it, actually.
D'Artagnan
ocalhoun wrote:
D'Artagnan wrote:

Well the ideas related life as a cycle of "suffering" , even appearing in other religions, are much more consistent and the idea that this "suffering" is our very own fault, because we hold to something mondane and fleeting to be happy and cease suffering ...

Well, that's my major disagreement with Buddhism; I don't see life as endless suffering... I rather enjoy it, actually.


i also thought that whenever i heard of the idea, but you see, its not really suffering , it's the very cyclical nature of life which involves "suffering" in a sense of all unpleasantries there can be and that cant be avoided - and how we are attached to what's physical which makes every suffering much worse...

like people which want badly a car, people don't need cars, but they do want and that desire makes them "suffer", not because they are in pain, but because they would be "happier" with a car.

like we only suffer so much about the dead of a loved one because we are attached to the person and his existance, that's one thing i never understood why religious people are so desperate about death if they think the person will be in heaven or something.

i don't know how can i explain it or if i'm really right?

i think what they mean is, we live in a state were we are wired to think and act in a way to take every pleasures we can that makes us happy, i think the idea here is that happines fleeting and that we are the ones who make it that way
Bikerman
Pretty much.
We desire things, but when we get them we find that the satisfaction is either illusory or very short lived. The desire for material things is therefore a distraction, at best. At worst it drives us to do things which are immoral and/or harmful. Suffering is, in Buddhism, the result of desire, passion, ardour, pursuit of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity, or in short: craving and clinging. When the desire ceases so does the suffering. Because these desires are all for transient things it is inevitable that, even if we attain them, we will loose them again. Desire also includes ideas, the notion of self - all the objects of our perceptions.
deanhills
D'Artagnan wrote:
i also thought that whenever i heard of the idea, but you see, its not really suffering , it's the very cyclical nature of life which involves "suffering" in a sense of all unpleasantries there can be and that cant be avoided - and how we are attached to what's physical which makes every suffering much worse...
I understand it differently. It is more acceptance of life that includes suffering, so that one can appreciate joyful moments. Life is opposites, so one can't just dance on the side of joy, in order to really appreciate joy, one has to know suffering as well.
ocalhoun
D'Artagnan wrote:

like we only suffer so much about the dead of a loved one because we are attached to the person and his existance, that's one thing i never understood why religious people are so desperate about death if they think the person will be in heaven or something.

Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all, right?

Bikerman wrote:
Pretty much.
We desire things, but when we get them we find that the satisfaction is either illusory or very short lived. The desire for material things is therefore a distraction, at best.

Desiring the wrong things does lead to suffering in one way or another.
That doesn't mean that you should throw away all desire though.
The important thing is to look inside yourself and see what it is that you want... not what other people tell you that you want.


...I should stop now, before going further off topic.
Bikerman
ocalhoun wrote:
D'Artagnan wrote:

like we only suffer so much about the dead of a loved one because we are attached to the person and his existance, that's one thing i never understood why religious people are so desperate about death if they think the person will be in heaven or something.

Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all, right?

Bikerman wrote:
Pretty much.
We desire things, but when we get them we find that the satisfaction is either illusory or very short lived. The desire for material things is therefore a distraction, at best.

Desiring the wrong things does lead to suffering in one way or another.
That doesn't mean that you should throw away all desire though.
The important thing is to look inside yourself and see what it is that you want... not what other people tell you that you want.
Well, the Buddhist view is that all craving for material goods or pleasure is negative. It is a 'need' that can never be satisfied, since the object of desire is impermenant and any satiation achieved by 'achieving' in the desire is therefore temporary. This is something most people are familiar with, I contend. Most of us (certainly me) have wanted things really badly, but found when we finally get them that we are disappointed and 'empty'.
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
Most of us (certainly me) have wanted things really badly, but found when we finally get them that we are disappointed and 'empty'.
I can't recall really feeling that way. If I have felt empty at times, then it is usually when I have been separated from life and thinking from the outside in, instead of just living and accepting what comes next. Part of this is being too idealistic at times and setting too high standards for those around me. Now that is a really good setting for being disappointed.

I see Buddhism as asking that one detaches from thinking like this, especially through meditation. The observer becoming the observed and training the mind to stop deluding itself.
watersoul
D'Artagnan wrote:
I find Buddhism quite interesting,
i can understand most of the ideas, just until it hits the spiritual part, i mean am i getting everything wrong?


Have you tried searching for a local group in your area?
I dipped my toe into Buddhism through that route after reading The Buddhist Outlook some years ago.

A quick search got me in touch with a few different Buddhist study groups in my area, and it was helpful listening to others interpretations in a face to face setting. Although I wasn't convinced enough to join any of them, the ability to ask questions and get plain English answers was certainly helpful.
...and everyone I met was very friendly offering fine shared food after the various talks. Good luck.
jeffryjon
Bikerman wrote:
Pretty much.
We desire things, but when we get them we find that the satisfaction is either illusory or very short lived. The desire for material things is therefore a distraction, at best. At worst it drives us to do things which are immoral and/or harmful. Suffering is, in Buddhism, the result of desire, passion, ardour, pursuit of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity, or in short: craving and clinging. When the desire ceases so does the suffering. Because these desires are all for transient things it is inevitable that, even if we attain them, we will loose them again. Desire also includes ideas, the notion of self - all the objects of our perceptions.


Agreed Bikerman. Nothing (metaphorically in a single lifetime and more literal over much longer periods) remains the same and therefore everything is temporal. When we hold onto the idea that we can attain a 'something' and then hold onto it there will be suffering because the pleasure is in the moment. We could include losing people for whom we have great affection in that equation (and that whether or not there's a heaven or other realms). Striving for the goal can be a great adventure, but you'll never get the thrill of seeing the same ball hit the back of the same net once the goal is achieved.
_AVG_
This sounds like an interesting topic so let me add my opinion:

I don't think one should judge a religion or faith by ALL its beliefs and especially by the beliefs of SOME believers. Look up the core tenets and only analyze them, since chances are there are various sects and variations of that faith which believe different things (Buddhism has about 30 sub-sects I believe). So I don't think we should judge a faith by the so called "small beliefs" (in Buddhism, in my opinion, these would be the details about spirits, worlds, metaphysics, cosmology, etc.). One should make the MAIN value judgements based on the core ideas.

As far as my understanding of the core ideas of Buddhism are concerned, they are:
- the 4 noble truths
- the 8 fold path
- the 5 aggregates
- karma and rebirth

The 4 noble truths should be regarded as the most important - in fact, I would go as far to say that these are the 4 axioms of Buddhist philosophy. The 8 fold path is a practical set of rules of how one is to live one's life. The 5 aggregates are the so called 'misconceptions' people have of the self. And karma and rebirth are important but malleable ideas which could be interpreted in various ways depending on which sect one follows.
eclipious
_AVG_ wrote:
This sounds like an interesting topic so let me add my opinion:

I don't think one should judge a religion or faith by ALL its beliefs and especially by the beliefs of SOME believers. Look up the core tenets and only analyze them, since chances are there are various sects and variations of that faith which believe different things (Buddhism has about 30 sub-sects I believe). So I don't think we should judge a faith by the so called "small beliefs" (in Buddhism, in my opinion, these would be the details about spirits, worlds, metaphysics, cosmology, etc.). One should make the MAIN value judgements based on the core ideas.

As far as my understanding of the core ideas of Buddhism are concerned, they are:
- the 4 noble truths
- the 8 fold path
- the 5 aggregates
- karma and rebirth

The 4 noble truths should be regarded as the most important - in fact, I would go as far to say that these are the 4 axioms of Buddhist philosophy. The 8 fold path is a practical set of rules of how one is to live one's life. The 5 aggregates are the so called 'misconceptions' people have of the self. And karma and rebirth are important but malleable ideas which could be interpreted in various ways depending on which sect one follows.


Yes there are definitely differences in everything. As far as Buddhism goes there are many different groups and many different major schools of thought. And I agree in that understanding the core ideas should really matter.

You can follow a specific school to help guide you through that journey but there is no guarantee that the school you follow has the same mentality as you.

I am not a Buddhist nor do I study it rigorously but I do attend events every now and then and read about it for personal benefit because I find certain thoughts and ideas enlightening about it.

I won't discuss specifics as I'm not very knowledgeable on the topics but to me I have learned from Buddhism to let go of ego and desire as it creates suffering upon oneself. I've tried to follow Venerable Master Miao Tsan and his book was interesting http://www.justusethismind.com/ and had a lot of great things that could help in living ones life well.
sanjaya200
its not all about suffering its called Karma,

the good and bad that you do you have to suffer the consequences. that's the main thing. Buddhism is a grate philosophy.

its something that you must read and understand. lot to learn.
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