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What is rape? And rape and politicians ...





deanhills
I always thought rape was an expression of rage and an essentially violent act. So when Julian Assange was accused of rape, I had an immediate worst case scenario in my head. Once I learned the "facts" however, it did not qualify as rape, more like non-consensual sex, but that is probably for the Swedish to sort out. But in Israel, probably rape is rape as we know it. What spurred this posting was that a former President of Israel got convicted of rape. Wonder how long everyone knew about it before they came forward, and why they only came forward now and for what reason?

The rape was in 1998, almost 14 years ago, and then there were lesser charges of sexual harassment at work from 2000 to 2007. But why now, and not then and who is to gain most out of this misfortune? Could not have been easy for the rape victims, who must have gone on with their lives, just to have it all torn apart again.

Interesting that the article also focused on other politicians' white collar crimes and list the conviction of rape along with those? Perhaps there is still this erroneous perception that rape is just a matter of a little robust sex, and not a serious crime of violence. To think that a guy like that could serve in the highest office of the country boggles the mind.
Quote:
The conviction was the latest in a series of high-profile cases against Israeli officials.

Former Israeli Finance Minister Avraham Hirchson is currently in prison after being convicted of embezzling more than $600,000 from a workers union. Former Justice Minister Haim Ramon was convicted in March 2007 of forcibly kissing a female soldier. Former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is currently standing trial on corruption charges.

Source: Yahoo!News
Bikerman
Rape is simply unlawful sex without the consent of the victim.
It is true that decades ago any rape charge was expected to involve physical force - and the victim was often criticised, or the charges dropped, for not putting up a fight. That began to change in the 1970s however, and by the mid 1990s pretty much all Western legal systems had adopted a much more sensible definition which did not require a woman (and the vast majority of rape victims are, of course, women) to risk their life by fighting back.
If you have sex with someone when they are asleep, drunk, or otherwise incapable of giving proper consent then it is rape - and it has been for at least a decade in most countries in the west.
In the US and UK the prosecution can establish lack of consent by showing that there was a verbal refusal or a verbal objection to the sexual act - ie if the victim simply says no, or stop, even during the act, then to continue is to rape. That has been the case in both countries since at least 2002 to my certain knowledge.
As for being asleep, I quote California law on this:
Quote:
...is considered rape if....
..The victim is at the time unconscious of the nature of the act, and this is known or reasonably should be known to the accused. A victim under this circumstance is incapable of resisting due to being:
* Unconscious
* Asleep*
* Unaware or not cognizant of the act
* Unaware or not cognizant of the act because of the perpetrator's fraud
* Unaware of the act because of the perpetrator's false representation of the act as serving a professional purpose

California law also states that "any sexual penetration, however, slight, is sufficient to complete the crime."

http://www.ucsd.edu/current-students/student-life/health-safety/campus-safety/personal/sexual-violence.html

(I'm not familiar enough with other states to say if they all have similar provision, but here in the UK we do).

* This is actually a potential problem for some of us (without going into any details - let's just say that some women actually enjoy being awakened with 'physical intimacy'). The key, of course, is knowing your partner well enough to know what is OK and what is not.
toasterintheoven
as taken from Palaniuk's Choke: "Rape is about power. It is not romantic. Do not fall in love with me. Do not kiss me on the mouth. Do not expect to linger after the act. Do not ask to use my bathroom."
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:

It is true that decades ago any rape charge was expected to involve physical force - and the victim was often criticised, or the charges dropped, for not putting up a fight. That began to change in the 1970s however, and by the mid 1990s pretty much all Western legal systems had adopted a much more sensible definition which did not require a woman (and the vast majority of rape victims are, of course, women) to risk their life by fighting back.

The drawback, though, is that it makes false accusations very easy.
I knew a military girl who had consensual sex and then cried rape... three times with three different men.
The first two men were discharged from the military and sent to jail... But the third time, people finally got wise to her, and she was prosecuted for filing false reports.
The first two got their lives very messed up when they did nothing wrong, while even the third one was seriously inconvenienced, greatly delaying his training and career for the long court case.
Bikerman
LOL - tell me about it. I'm a male teacher who teaches students aged 16 plus...I'm VERY aware that an accusation from a female (or male) student would possibly end my career, even if groundless. When accusations are made in such cases, the teacher is immediately suspended and sent home pending the investigation - regardless of the credibility of the accusation. I know one person (I'll call PS) who it happened to (he was a colleague, not a friend - we were only on nodding terms). A 14 yr old girl told her mum he had groped her in a classroom. The mother complained to the head, PS was immediately suspended and it took 4 months for the various enquiries to reach a conclusion - that being that the allegation could not be substantiated but neither could it be shown to be false. He left the school and teaching, and took a job in a warehouse. It was about 12 months afterwards that the girl admitted to a friend that she had made the story up. The friend reported it to the headmaster and PS was finally exonerated - much too late to change anything.
Afaceinthematrix
ocalhoun wrote:

The drawback, though, is that it makes false accusations very easy.
I knew a military girl who had consensual sex and then cried rape... three times with three different men.
The first two men were discharged from the military and sent to jail... But the third time, people finally got wise to her, and she was prosecuted for filing false reports.
The first two got their lives very messed up when they did nothing wrong, while even the third one was seriously inconvenienced, greatly delaying his training and career for the long court case.


Maybe I should start drawing out contracts that I can have her sign before the act. Hell, I already have one contract out with a girl stating that if we have sexual intercourse, and the condom breaks and she gets pregnant, that she will get an abortion (I never ever want kids) under the condition that I pay for it. So maybe I should get out another contract with any woman that I sleep with stating that she is consenting to sexual activity.

Bikerman wrote:
* This is actually a potential problem for some of us (without going into any details - let's just say that some women actually enjoy being awakened with 'physical intimacy'). The key, of course, is knowing your partner well enough to know what is OK and what is not.


Again, some sort of contract is a good idea. I know women (without getting into detail) that are like that too. If she signs a contract saying that on some given night I may do that and that she consents to me doing that, then will my ass be covered?

Bikerman wrote:
LOL - tell me about it. I'm a male teacher who teaches students aged 16 plus...I'm VERY aware that an accusation from a female (or male) student would possibly end my career, even if groundless. When accusations are made in such cases, the teacher is immediately suspended and sent home pending the investigation - regardless of the credibility of the accusation. I know one person (I'll call PS) who it happened to (he was a colleague, not a friend - we were only on nodding terms). A 14 yr old girl told her mum he had groped her in a classroom. The mother complained to the head, PS was immediately suspended and it took 4 months for the various enquiries to reach a conclusion - that being that the allegation could not be substantiated but neither could it be shown to be false. He left the school and teaching, and took a job in a warehouse. It was about 12 months afterwards that the girl admitted to a friend that she had made the story up. The friend reported it to the headmaster and PS was finally exonerated - much too late to change anything.


That's why, if I was a teacher, any extra tutoring would be done outside of my classroom and in a wide-open public space. Many teachers that I had in high school would tell students who need extra help to stop by their classroom after school. I would tell the student to meet me at the library (where you have the librarian and other pupils as witnesses) for extra studying... Or, if allowed by the school, I would ask them to go to the room where teachers hang out during their lunch or after school so that other teachers could be witnesses. I would simply avoid teaching students one-on-one like the plague. Maybe, if I really trusted a student, I would have them in a classroom alone. But, for the most part, I would avoid that.
deanhills
I sympathize with that teacher. Must have been like a Kafka thriller to be involved in a situation like that. If I were him, I would definitely look for damages just so as to discourage any other girls from doing the same thing. When that happened to him, it was not only about him, but any other male teacher who could easily face the same experience. It has to be a horrendous experience when one is not guilty and accused of rape. But by the same token it is not very easy for genuine rape victims to come forward, especially those who are in relationships with the offenders or are being intimidated by offenders (especially offenders who are in positions of power) to keep quiet about it. And when they do come forward it must cling like a stigma to them too. Their friends feel uncomfortable and start to shun them, their husbands/boyfriends may feel uncomfortable and they eventually get divorced/separated, the whole family gets torn apart, they may not do as well on their jobs as they used to, and may even lose their jobs, and they are put in positions where they have to relive the whole thing over again when they are medically examined and then later shredded to bits by a defense attorney in court.

Afaceinthematrix wrote:
Maybe, if I really trusted a student, I would have them in a classroom alone. But, for the most part, I would avoid that.
Even if one trusted a student, it would probably still be better to not be alone with them, as other students can start spreading malicious rumours and that can easily lead to a complaint by a parent. Also some students may not be sincere in really needing help, and if that should eventually become a problem, it could easily come back to the teacher that he should have known better as he had been encouraging the student. Probably better to announce the timing that a teacher could be available for outside consultation right at the beginning, and that helping just one student at a time may not be viable, it would need to be more than say three students at a time? For doing outside teaching, rather train the stronger students in the class to tutor their fellow students.
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