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Political Activism





Afaceinthematrix
I would like to start a thread about political activism because I am seeking advice. Has anyone here ever led to the change in some policy/law in their country/town/state/etc.? The reason that I am asking is because I am worried that there may, very soon, be a new law in my area that would be extremely unjust and that would greatly affect me. I will provide a little background.

I am under the extremely small belief that any law that restricts freedom and prevents people from doing activities that affect nobody else is immoral and unjust. The mere fact that prostitution is illegal in the United States absolutely disgusts me. Why wouldn't I be able to pay a consenting adult money to do an activity that I like? The only reason that prostitution is illegal is because some people feel that sex is immoral and so they're going to push their beliefs onto everyone else. These people are extremely selfish and immoral. If I go to buy a prostitute, then I am hurting nobody else and I am not causing any danger to society.

The same can be said about drugs. Drugs need to be legal. If I am sitting at home using some drug then I am not hurting anyone but myself and so there is no justification for arresting me. Drugs are only illegal because some people wanted to push their ideals onto everyone else and these people are bossy jerks that wish to boss around everyone else and tell them what to do.

This brings up the legal status of a drug that I actually use. I do not use very many drugs. I used to drink but I haven't drank in weeks and I'm down to just a few beers a month (I do not even drink hard liquor any more). I do not smoke tobacco. I'll never touch marijuana again (I hate that stuff; it makes me antisocial and so I just end up sitting in a corner by myself, giggling at nothing and eating french fries - pretty boring). The one drug that I use is Salvia divinorum. I do not use it very often - once every few months. However, it is a wonderful drug.

Salvia has not been found to have any long term effects. However, very few scientific studies have been done on it. It is for that reason that I rarely touch the drug. If it was found to be harmful, then I'll feel better knowing that I didn't use it very often. It was also, until about a week ago, fairly unknown. Many people that I knew had never heard of the drug when I'd tell them that I used it. The reason that I would smoke Salvia is that it is a powerful drug when it comes to mediation. It really puts you in another place and helps you reflect upon yourself. If used in moderation, I believe that it can be a positive aspect in your life. However, moderation is the key.

One reason why not many people know about it and even fewer people have tried it is that it is extremely unpopular. I have known about two dozen people who have tried it and I only know one person, besides myself, who actually likes it. I believe that the reason why everyone who tries it seems to hate it is that marijuana is so popular so they smoke it like it's marijuana. However, this is terrible. Marijuana is a party drug - Salvia is not. Salvia needs to be smoked in a very quiet setting - I usually have no noise except for some soft classical music in the background. Salvia must also be smoked in a very dark setting. I usually take a really huge bong hit, cut the lights, lie down, shut my eyes, and then when it's been about twenty seconds, my "sitter" will tell me to blow the smoke out and then I'll drift off into my dream world...

But now, Salvia has been all over the news. I recently posted about this in another thread in the "Discuss World News" section. Miley Cyrus got caught smoking Salvia on a video! Not only did she do this wrong (it was a party setting, she didn't clear the bong, and she didn't hold the smoke in for the necessary twenty to thirty seconds), but everyone saw this. This, of course, caused an outrage among parent groups - mostly because Miley Cyrus is a kid's role model and a Disney star. What are these parents goings to do? Instead of watching their children to insure that they don't use Salvia, they're going to butt into my personal life (they want to hurt me because they can't be parents even though they made the choice to have kids! Great, I always wanted to do someone else's parenting for them) and get my therapeutic drug banned. Salvia is currently illegal in 15 U.S. states and in many countries. The reason that I am worried about it becoming banned in California is because there are already parent groups in my state capitol actively trying to get this banned! What makes matters worse is that just a few years ago (before 2004), Salvia was not banned in any U.S. state! Therefore, it seems that it's just a matter of time before it's banned in California (there are already a few more states considering the ban).

The fact that any drug, or prostitution, or gambling, etc. are banned really bother me on principle. However, I do not use marijuana, cocaine, or any of those drugs. Furthermore, I wouldn't visit prostitutes or gamble even if they were legal. So while they annoy me on principle, they do not really effect me. This, however, really hits home. If Salvia is banned, then my freedom will directly be hurt and I will no longer be able to, as a consenting adult, use a substance that I use in moderation and with responsibility (I do not use it in public) in order to mediate.

Does anyone have experience in political activism? I would really like advice on how to prevent Salvia from becoming illegal in California (or really anywhere else). Most people do not understand Salvia because, if they've used it, they've most likely not used it in a way that can produce the desirable effects that I, and my one friend who enjoys it, receive...

Edit: If anyone is reading this and thinking, "Why did he include all that unnecessary information on Salvia and why he likes it," my answer is simple: I wanted to really build up the magnitude of this problem. If I had simply asked, "What's the best way to stop an unjust law from passing" and then someone asked what law I wanted to stop and I answered, "I want Salvia to stay legal," then I may have lost credibility because I may have just been seen as some stupid druggie or if the person reading has used Salvia and hated it, I'd get a response with, "Why would you want to keep that terrible stuff legal?" Therefore, I felt that it was best to adequately explain how I use it, why I use it (mediation), the benefits, and common misconceptions. I think it gives me more credibility and it will (at least I hope) help this conversation be more productive.
deanhills
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
Edit: If anyone is reading this and thinking, "Why did he include all that unnecessary information on Salvia and why he likes it," my answer is simple: I wanted to really build up the magnitude of this problem. If I had simply asked, "What's the best way to stop an unjust law from passing" and then someone asked what law I wanted to stop and I answered, "I want Salvia to stay legal," then I may have lost credibility because I may have just been seen as some stupid druggie or if the person reading has used Salvia and hated it, I'd get a response with, "Why would you want to keep that terrible stuff legal?" Therefore, I felt that it was best to adequately explain how I use it, why I use it (mediation), the benefits, and common misconceptions. I think it gives me more credibility and it will (at least I hope) help this conversation be more productive.
I thought it was a wonderful essay Matrix, and exceptionally well written. After one or two paragraphs you had me completely curious and interested. If I had been living in the States I would have immediately asked you where can one get Salvia? Sounds like something that artists or writers would like to use as well, but obviously in the self-disciplined way you described. I would have wanted to try it out as well, as it obviously does have great benefits as listed in the Website below. Perhaps you have already researched it?:
http://www.sagewisdom.org/

The author of the Website, Daniel Siebert, sounds like a guy who would be able to point you in the right direction:
http://www.sagewisdom.org/danielsiebert.html
I would be interested in the drug from the following point of view and am quoting this from the above sagewisdom Website:
Quote:
Salvia divinorum is an extraordinary herb used in shamanism, divination, healing, meditation, and the exploration of consciousness.
It should always be used in a thoughtful, intelligent manner, and only by responsible adults that are of sound mind and clear intent.

The Sagewisdom Website lists organizations that you can check up on as well that look like the ones that may lead you to action contacts. I thought one of the organizations: the Center for Cognitive Liberty & Ethics would be what you may be interested in. It has a Salvia Divinorum Action Center, however I don't know how up to date it is.
ocalhoun
Well, I'm sorry, but you have two powerful enemies:

1: "Think of teh CHILDREN!!1!" types. As you mentioned, parents who can't parent for themselves, and want the state to do it. They are extremely difficult to defeat, because no lawmaker wants to be 'against the children'.

2: The war on drugs is profitable. Banning another drug gives them more reason to arrest more people, and more importantly confiscate everything 'drug related' they have (to include any car used to transport them --no matter who owns it-- and any money the 'dealer' may have). In addition to that, they get more federal grants for shiny new tactical police equipment (which they will use to make commando raids on non-violent suspected drug possessors). In some cases, there may even be a corrupt kick-back system if prisons get money per inmate.

Now, consider that your average politician cares about two things:
1- His image (for reelection)
2- Money (often also for reelection)

One of the many things he does not care about is: your freedom.
Your only real chance is to provide a better image boost, or provide more money than the competition... Which I doubt you can.


(Cynical much? A bit, yes. It's the futility of causes like yours that gives me sympathy for the militant/terrorist anarchist.)
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
(Cynical much? A bit, yes. It's the futility of causes like yours that gives me sympathy for the militant/terrorist anarchist.)
I don't see a cause like this as necessarily futile. If all people thought political activism were futile, then the United States may never have happened, as its existence started with a jolly good revolution. The only way to real change is political activism based on genuine and sincere passion, that Matrix seems to have in abundance, so if he can find the right organization I genuinely believe it could make a difference. It may not always be plain sailing in a straight line, but provided the organization is consistent, focused and stays the course it could make a great difference. I don't think Matrix is in a minority here. Max Keiser in the Keiser Report on Russia Today had an interview with someone who did a tour of some of the important cities in the US and discovered that most people in their twenties and thirties had become completely disinterested in the present Government as it is, and wanted something new of their own. The Government has become totally disconnected from people and its political system completely dysfunctional, with too much legislation and too onerous and complicated. So hopefully change is in the offing. I believe that that would be the politically responsible thing to do. To choose action rather than cynicism.

PS: I can't remember the exact Keiser Report as that specific report was in August or July this year but here is a link for the RT Keiser Reports:
http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/
Afaceinthematrix
deanhills wrote:
After one or two paragraphs you had me completely curious and interested. If I had been living in the States I would have immediately asked you where can one get Salvia?


Salvia may be legal in the UAE - I do not know. You can probably easily find that out. In the U.S. you can order it online and purchase it in most smoke shops. From what I understand, hookah is popular in your part of the world. So go to a local smoke shop that sells hookah and ask them if they have Salvia. If it's illegal, it probably isn't worth the risk to attempt to have it shipped to you. However, if you decide to smoke it ever, then be extremely careful and really do your research. Make sure you have a quiet and dark setting where there's nothing around that can hurt you. Have a sitter. Use a bong (they work far better than pipes). Also make sure that you're in a mood for deep meditation after your experience (which will last about five minutes or so) is over.

Quote:
Well, I'm sorry, but you have two powerful enemies:

1: "Think of teh CHILDREN!!1!" types. As you mentioned, parents who can't parent for themselves, and want the state to do it. They are extremely difficult to defeat, because no lawmaker wants to be 'against the children'.


Of course it's the children! They really do ruin everything. One of my arch enemies is the FCC. I truly believe that their main intention is restricting our freedom of speech. You cannot say a whole list of words on the radio and television, you cannot show porn, and there are many other things that are also banned. This disgusts me because it's a direct violation of freedom of speech. Every person that I've ever argued with has had the same response when defending their disgusting behavior. "What if a child is watching television or listening to the radio and comes across this?" Well too damn bad! Their parents need to be watching their children instead of using TV as a cheap babysitter. And if they are not a position to be able to, then they shouldn't have had children. I purposely do not have children and never will. My reasoning is simple - I hate kids and I do not want to be a parent. However, this damn government is essentially making me be a parent by cutting off my potential porn and swear words for the sake of doing the parenting for other people. This already pisses me off, so just imagine my furry if they cut off my Salvia.

Quote:
2: The war on drugs is profitable. Banning another drug gives them more reason to arrest more people, and more importantly confiscate everything 'drug related' they have (to include any car used to transport them --no matter who owns it-- and any money the 'dealer' may have). In addition to that, they get more federal grants for shiny new tactical police equipment (which they will use to make commando raids on non-violent suspected drug possessors). In some cases, there may even be a corrupt kick-back system if prisons get money per inmate.


Oh of course! I wish I could opt out of a huge percentage of my taxes with the return of opting out of a huge amount of their bullshit legislation. I really do not care if there's a drug user next door to me. I won't phone the police anyways as long as there are no other crimes that could effect me being done.

Quote:
Now, consider that your average politician cares about two things:
1- His image (for reelection)
2- Money (often also for reelection)

One of the many things he does not care about is: your freedom.
Your only real chance is to provide a better image boost, or provide more money than the competition... Which I doubt you can.


I always wonder why we keep electing these morons into office. Then I remember that it's because most of the U.S. population is just like this. Just look at the misery of Prop 19 (legalizing marijuana for recreational use in CA) that failed in early November. I definitely voted yes for freedom in the same way that I voted no for discrimination during prop 8 (gay marriage) a couple of years ago.


Quote:
(Cynical much? A bit, yes. It's the futility of causes like yours that gives me sympathy for the militant/terrorist anarchist.)


Yes, it's cynical. I cannot support any act of violence but I would definitely wouldn't cry if quite a few of these politicians dropped dead since they're committing major atrocities (restricting freedom) towards humanity...

Quote:
Max Keiser in the Keiser Report on Russia Today had an interview with someone who did a tour of some of the important cities in the US and discovered that most people in their twenties and thirties had become completely disinterested in the present Government as it is, and wanted something new of their own. The Government has become totally disconnected from people and its political system completely dysfunctional, with too much legislation and too onerous and complicated


I don't think this is anything new... The government, for the most part, has always been ran by old people that cannot relate to young people. In the 80's you had Tipper Gore trying to get rock music banned. Every generation is just a new story. I hope that soon we'll move on a path more towards freedom. If I had the money, I'd be in D.C. picketing right now.
deanhills
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
So go to a local smoke shop that sells hookah and ask them if they have Salvia.
Thanks for that tip. I know exactly where to look for it.
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
]If I had the money, I'd be in D.C. picketing right now.
I'm sure if you are really serious and passionate about it that you could make the if into a when. You probably would need to do some presentations first to get some fire going, probably put it on a DVD and who knows, if Julian Assange can get Bianca Jagger to sponsor him I'm sure Jane Fonda can sponsor you, but she probably would want to see a proposal and presentation in place first. Smile
ocalhoun
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
just imagine my furry if they cut off my Salvia.

*imagining your furry*

*wait... did I read that wrong?*
*nope! definitely says furry*
^.^
Afaceinthematrix
Perhaps I should have said, "fury" instead. I would post a picture of what my fury would be like, but I do not think that it would be allowed here. I had a picture of Jesus (who I'm unfortunately told that I look like on a daily basis) giving the finger.

I completely expected Prop 19 to not pass. I knew that there were too many people who do not believe in freedom (who I think should die because there are other people dying to protect the freedom that they're trying to take away from everyone else) voting and I knew that they would vote against it. So even though I expected it, I was extremely angry (I through my phone against the wall and shouted swear words; then I found out that enough idiots voted for Jerry Brown to elect him, then I was about ten times more angry). So if Salvia, which (up until recently) I did not expect to be banned, got banned, then things would break.

The fact that we should have freedom is a no-brainer to me. This "War on Drugs" is a failure and is unconstitutional. It really needs to stop. I've had it with it.

I've been protesting other things lately in a very subtle way. "In God We Trust" should not be on our money - it's unconstitutional. So lately I've been taking every single $1, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100 bill that I've been able to get my name on and crossing out the "God" and writing "Satan" instead. Should "In Satan We Trust" be on our money? Of course not (for the same reason that "In God We Trust" shouldn't)! But, to me, it's a far stronger protest than just crossing out the "God." Crossing out the "God" will just piss people off. Writing "Satan" will really press the message to people coming across my notes. It made me happy when I was at a local mall recently and in the change, I received one of my own bills! I am pretty sure that it was mine because the handwriting matched. But even if it wasn't, then I would be more happy because maybe people who receive my old money as change are joining in!
deanhills
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
I've been protesting other things lately in a very subtle way. "In God We Trust" should not be on our money - it's unconstitutional. So lately I've been taking every single $1, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100 bill that I've been able to get my name on and crossing out the "God" and writing "Satan" instead. Should "In Satan We Trust" be on our money? Of course not (for the same reason that "In God We Trust" shouldn't)! But, to me, it's a far stronger protest than just crossing out the "God." Crossing out the "God" will just piss people off. Writing "Satan" will really press the message to people coming across my notes. It made me happy when I was at a local mall recently and in the change, I received one of my own bills! I am pretty sure that it was mine because the handwriting matched. But even if it wasn't, then I would be more happy because maybe people who receive my old money as change are joining in!
Are you sure that is subtle however? As isn't it against the law?
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1865847
I'm all for subtle political activism. Defacing bills to me is acting a little less than intelligent. Why not invest that energy rather in joining the right forces to make the change that you are aiming at in a savvy and legal way instead?
Afaceinthematrix
deanhills wrote:
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
I've been protesting other things lately in a very subtle way. "In God We Trust" should not be on our money - it's unconstitutional. So lately I've been taking every single $1, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100 bill that I've been able to get my name on and crossing out the "God" and writing "Satan" instead. Should "In Satan We Trust" be on our money? Of course not (for the same reason that "In God We Trust" shouldn't)! But, to me, it's a far stronger protest than just crossing out the "God." Crossing out the "God" will just piss people off. Writing "Satan" will really press the message to people coming across my notes. It made me happy when I was at a local mall recently and in the change, I received one of my own bills! I am pretty sure that it was mine because the handwriting matched. But even if it wasn't, then I would be more happy because maybe people who receive my old money as change are joining in!
Are you sure that is subtle however? As isn't it against the law?
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1865847
I'm all for subtle political activism. Defacing bills to me is acting a little less than intelligent. Why not invest that energy rather in joining the right forces to make the change that you are aiming at in a savvy and legal way instead?


Of course it's illegal. However, there's zero chance of getting caught (how would they ever know that it was me who wrote on the bill... I get handed bills all of the time and I could have gotten those in my change somewhere else). Furthermore, it's civil disobedience. If something is unjust, then do not follow it.

And this is a great way to fight it because it directly takes care of the problem. "In God We Trust" simply should not be on our money and so I take it off - simple as that. Plus, if enough people start doing this then it will actually truly make some sort of stance and get people to understand that they can no longer shove their own religion down everyone's throat.

Laws are there to keep order and protect the people's rights. However, when the laws are restricting people's rights then there is a problem. Not defacing money is a good law that has (for the most part) a positive economic cause for everyone, but in this case, it's protecting something which is unjust. And, like I said, I'm tackling the thing right at the root (taking the "In God We Trust" off my money).
deanhills
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
"In God We Trust" simply should not be on our money and so I take it off - simple as that. Plus, if enough people start doing this then it will actually truly make some sort of stance and get people to understand that they can no longer shove their own religion down everyone's throat.
I'm not telling you what to do, as that is your own choice and responsibility of course. I just pointed out that it was against the law. But having said that can't help wonder whether that would be against the will of a majority of people of the US who would like the wording to remain as well? Has a study been made in that regard? As there could be others who are as perfectly convinced as you are in the opposite that it is OK to have it in the bills. I think there is nothing wrong to protest against the wording as that is your right to do along "freedom of speech" lines, but defacing bills is probably not a very constructive way of going about the problem. How many people really read money bills anyway? Do they really care?
watersoul
deanhills wrote:
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
"In God We Trust" simply should not be on our money and so I take it off - simple as that. Plus, if enough people start doing this then it will actually truly make some sort of stance and get people to understand that they can no longer shove their own religion down everyone's throat.
I'm not telling you what to do, as that is your own choice and responsibility of course. I just pointed out that it was against the law. But having said that can't help wonder whether that would be against the will of a majority of people of the US who would like the wording to remain as well? Has a study been made in that regard? As there could be others who are as perfectly convinced as you are in the opposite that it is OK to have it in the bills. I think there is nothing wrong to protest against the wording as that is your right to do along "freedom of speech" lines, but defacing bills is probably not a very constructive way of going about the problem. How many people really read money bills anyway? Do they really care?


I'm with Matrix on the money thing, it's a perfectly legitimate peaceful form of protest in my opinion.
As a coincidence I have often scribbled or X'd the queens face with permanent marker pen on British notes. I'm absolutely against a monarchy having even the symbolic status of head of state when my own son, for example, cannot aspire to the position due to 'accident of birth'.
OK, it's illegal here as well, but I'd be happy to go to court as a test case, if only to have my protesting views officially recorded.
Afaceinthematrix
deanhills wrote:
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
"In God We Trust" simply should not be on our money and so I take it off - simple as that. Plus, if enough people start doing this then it will actually truly make some sort of stance and get people to understand that they can no longer shove their own religion down everyone's throat.
I'm not telling you what to do, as that is your own choice and responsibility of course. I just pointed out that it was against the law. But having said that can't help wonder whether that would be against the will of a majority of people of the US who would like the wording to remain as well? Has a study been made in that regard? As there could be others who are as perfectly convinced as you are in the opposite that it is OK to have it in the bills. I think there is nothing wrong to protest against the wording as that is your right to do along "freedom of speech" lines, but defacing bills is probably not a very constructive way of going about the problem. How many people really read money bills anyway? Do they really care?


I don't care if the majority of people want the words on the money - it is still wrong. It is still forcing the idea of a belief onto people. It is still going against separation of church and state. Essentially, it is against our constitution. In fact, our money didn't even start that way. It was added on quite recently. So even if most people want it, it is still wrong and it needs to be taken off.

And also, I do not care about breaking a law that is protecting something immoral. I will break that law so that I can make a good social change. If I got taken to court, I would tell the judge the same thing. If somebody puts "In God We Trust" on my money then I see no valid reason why I shouldn't be allowed to put "In Satan We Trust" on there. I'm essentially doing nothing different.

@watersoul: Keep fighting, brother! I'm also against monarchies like that. I'm actually against anything that can be considered a birthright. Nobody should have privileges just because of how they were born - even if that privilege is just a figurehead.
ocalhoun
deanhills wrote:
But having said that can't help wonder whether that would be against the will of a majority of people of the US who would like the wording to remain as well?

The will of the majority does not equate to moral correctness.
"Tyranny of the majority" ... Ever heard of it?

If every single citizen except for one wanted it on the money, that one would be enough reason to not have it.
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
deanhills wrote:
But having said that can't help wonder whether that would be against the will of a majority of people of the US who would like the wording to remain as well?

The will of the majority does not equate to moral correctness.
"Tyranny of the majority" ... Ever heard of it?

If every single citizen except for one wanted it on the money, that one would be enough reason to not have it.
I have no problem with that. I think I also said as much. Activate away to make changes that are necessary. But breaking the law by defacing bills is probably not a good way of making those changes. Not many people take note of people's scribbles on bank notes anyway. I am sure there must be others who feel as strongly about the writing on the Bills, as much as those feeling strongly about Salvia divinorum not being banned. Probably better to join forces, as originally suggested by Matrix and then to tackle the problem legally at its source as an empowered group of savvy agitators.
watersoul
deanhills wrote:
[...] But breaking the law by defacing bills is probably not a good way of making those changes.[...]

The 'law' is the issue here though and whether we deem the law to be the absolute decider in moral or ethical issues.
Should I agree just solely because the law says a particular thing is correct or not?
Quote:
It is an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British monarch upside down.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article2251280.ece (I do that every time and usually draw a nice moustache or comedy glasses on her face as well)

As another example, some old local legislation which has never been repealed in my area also decrees that a man cannot bathe in the sea within 100 yards of a woman - does that mean it's correct?

I agree with you Dean, that if someone wants to 'win over' mainstream conservative type folk then a campaign has by default got to be squeeky clean with no law breaking at all. I do wonder though, when was the last major social change ever won anywhere through totally compliant and submissive citizen behaviour?
deanhills
watersoul wrote:
deanhills wrote:
[...] But breaking the law by defacing bills is probably not a good way of making those changes.[...]

The 'law' is the issue here though and whether we deem the law to be the absolute decider in moral or ethical issues.
Should I agree just solely because the law says a particular thing is correct or not?
For me the point is not about the law, but the actual defacing of Bills. I just don't see the sense of it. I for example hate it when people paint graffiti on public walls. I don't mind the artistic ones that are tastefully done as an expression of art, but those spray paint jobs with really bad language, and obscene drawings are messy. I also don't mind if people do the odd bit of calculation on their currency bills. Sometimes looks interesting. But trying to make a point by defacing what is there is about the same for me as messy graffiti.

I haven't heard about people playing with postage stamps. Do those letters actually get delivered especially since the postal services are called Royal Mail? Twisted Evil Anyway, I'm not too partial to having royalties for postage stamps. I far rather prefer brightly coloured fish, birds or insects. Perhaps also some abstract art. I also like postage stamps that aren't your traditional square shapes. Why not make them round or triangular for example?
watersoul
deanhills wrote:
For me the point is not about the law, but the actual defacing of Bills.

That's fair enough and I get where you're coming from now, it's less about the law and more about what you find visually acceptable?
Cool, but as long as a bank note is 'mine' and 'bought n paid for' through X many hours of my labour then that note in my opinion becomes my property. If someone else chooses not to accept my note in payment, again thats fair enough, you won't see me complaining. As long as that piece of paper is something I legally own though I can do whatever I want with it...I just can't necessarily convince someone else to accept it as a means of payment.

deanhills wrote:
I haven't heard about people playing with postage stamps. Do those letters actually get delivered especially since the postal services are called Royal Mail?

Yep, never had an undelivered letter so far, how could an automated system discriminate between a standard stamp and an anti-royalist defaced version? - of course I'm careful to make sure the 'stamp' itself is still recognisable by a machine though! Smile
ocalhoun
watersoul wrote:
deanhills wrote:
For me the point is not about the law, but the actual defacing of Bills.

That's fair enough and I get where you're coming from now, it's less about the law and more about what you find visually acceptable?
Cool, but as long as a bank note is 'mine' and 'bought n paid for' through X many hours of my labour then that note in my opinion becomes my property.

Not entirely sure about that... It may be technically government property acting as a representation of property that's yours.

It is a fine way of using civil disobedience to protest though.
(Though it would be better to try to get Satanist decorations in a courthouse or other government building; that way you're protesting the unjust law by breaking the unjust law, rather than breaking an unrelated law as the money defacing does.)
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
Though it would be better to try to get Satanist decorations in a courthouse or other government building;
Laughing Laughing Now this is a good one! Particularly in a courthouse. How would one do it though .... Twisted Evil
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