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What would be needed to create a universal faith in oneself?





jeffryjon
As far as I can see, due to the various beliefs in the my God/your God/No God debate, it would be necessary to develop a system that would invoke faith in oneself without mention of God for this to be successful.

What ideas if any, do you have in attempting to create a common faith in oneself and the ability to develop oneself to the max that each individual would like?

I'm not just referring to back-patting here, but practical steps to enable an individual to become successful and content so the human experience can be one with faith in oneself as a common denominator (successful as defined by each individual of course!!!)
deanhills
This is a difficult one as it is almost equivalent to figuring out who we are versus who others may think we are, or want us to be. Once we get to discover the difference, and if we are gutsy enough to stand up for the difference, perhaps we can then start with real faith in ourselves.
jeffryjon
Yes i can see your point Deanhills, though it seems to me that youngsters can develop a faith in self and some come with it naturally. We could very loosely use your term 'gutsy' to describe this. Examples that may be relevant to a child who in most cases are they have little or no idea who they are and often care very little about what they are in terms of the categories others may place them in.

Even with the above in place, some children have faith that they are capable of being just about anything a human can be, whilst others lack that faith and need a great deal of encouragement at every step from their peers. Both of course, may need guidance to develop their skills.

Looking back to my own childhood, there were subjects in which I flew like a bird and others that seemed very difficult to get the hang of. Equally true in sports and other physical pursuits. Like many kids, I had people telling me to stick with what I do best and leave the rest as I just wasn't cut out to be that sort of person. Others were trying to define the future me for me. Luckily, I had faith in myself and prospered in many areas where my parents/teachers etc had total confidence that I could never succeed. Did I fail in those areas? Yes - and many times - though with perseverance driven by faith in myself, i eventually became successful. I came to realise that by having enough faith in myself, i could become far more successful (as defined by myself) than if I had a lack of that faith. Some of the other kids I remember lacked that faith and of course were destined to fail in some areas because of that lack of faith in self. Even so, we all had the same starting point in the sense that we were as yet undefined in terms of what and who we were.
watersoul
jeffryjon wrote:
Some of the other kids I remember lacked that faith and of course were destined to fail in some areas because of that lack of faith in self. Even so, we all had the same starting point in the sense that we were as yet undefined in terms of what and who we were.


Thats the key point, to me, summed up in your paragraph.
No-one ever has the same starting point in truth. Different parents absolutely promote self-belief differently in every family. Until every person on this planet is ruled by a strong sense of compassion and love to each other, there will be people who lack belief or faith in themself.

Take my comments in your other topic:
watersoul wrote:
Consider the addict who hides from the reality of their chaotic life through drink or drugs. No faith in their own ability to better themself, simply chasing the numbing qualities of whichever substance they use.

Or even the victims of domestic violence, with self confidence shattered by years of verbal attacks and put-downs by a domineering partner. Conditioned into thinking that they are unable to escape and live an independent life without the person who effectively controls them.


Add to this the unemployed person receiving their 400th rejection letter for a job application, the damage to their feelings of self worth etc, the lack of people who care about them in their life? The media daily telling them that without X or Y product they cannot be happy...

Yep, until everyone is universally nice to each other and that focus becomes more important than the materialistic 'worship' of shiny things, I think we'll always have people who lack faith in themselves.

*Edit*
I just remembered an amazing teacher I had in the rough and underfunded comprehensive school I went to in my teens. He told us we can be whatever we want to be and that some things are easier to some people than others, but if we want something badly enough we will get it because we've got the intelligence.
I remember his lessons which just made us think about how we negotiate the social circumstances we faced, removing any doubts about overcoming them. The passionate theme was always 'you can do it' but accepting the reality that it might be a little more of a challenge for some than others.

He was one of my inspirations, but not everyone has the luxury of even one passionately good role model in their childhood. For that reason as well, I struggle to see a universal self belief or faith, there are far too many variables in life.
menino
Some people use religion to invoke thier self esteem and confidence.
But faith in God is useless, without faith in one's self - this is paramount.

I believe also that there are different books and programs out there, to boost self esteem, such as Robin Sharma's books, and also the "Art of Living" programs that are conducted all over the world, advocated by an Indian person name shri shri Ravishankar I think.
deanhills
watersoul wrote:
jeffryjon wrote:
Some of the other kids I remember lacked that faith and of course were destined to fail in some areas because of that lack of faith in self. Even so, we all had the same starting point in the sense that we were as yet undefined in terms of what and who we were.


Thats the key point, to me, summed up in your paragraph.
No-one ever has the same starting point in truth. Different parents absolutely promote self-belief differently in every family. Until every person on this planet is ruled by a strong sense of compassion and love to each other, there will be people who lack belief or faith in themself.
But what about the fact that four children have the exact same parents? And the same circumstances. And you would find two who are super self-confident with lots of faith in self. One is completely lacking in faith and everyone else is always looking out for the one. And the other one sort of in the middle. Environmental factors do play a role, but there are certain qualities that we are born with that play a great role in the faith we have in ourselves.
watersoul
deanhills wrote:
But what about the fact that four children have the exact same parents? And the same circumstances. And you would find two who are super self-confident with lots of faith in self. One is completely lacking in faith and everyone else is always looking out for the one. And the other one sort of in the middle. Environmental factors do play a role, but there are certain qualities that we are born with that play a great role in the faith we have in ourselves.


I totally understand there Dean, speaking as the youngest of 5 children while growing up, I saw the differences between us all.
I still think it was more about nurture and situations shaping us though, pecking order, expected roles and the like. Perhaps a certain amount of the population could struggle with self belief for genetic reasons, but I'd say mostly it's down to conditioning and life experience.
Of course I haven't looked at any research into this nor can I reference any sources, it's just my reasoned opinion.
deanhills
watersoul wrote:
deanhills wrote:
But what about the fact that four children have the exact same parents? And the same circumstances. And you would find two who are super self-confident with lots of faith in self. One is completely lacking in faith and everyone else is always looking out for the one. And the other one sort of in the middle. Environmental factors do play a role, but there are certain qualities that we are born with that play a great role in the faith we have in ourselves.


I totally understand there Dean, speaking as the youngest of 5 children while growing up, I saw the differences between us all.
I still think it was more about nurture and situations shaping us though, pecking order, expected roles and the like. Perhaps a certain amount of the population could struggle with self belief for genetic reasons, but I'd say mostly it's down to conditioning and life experience.
Of course I haven't looked at any research into this nor can I reference any sources, it's just my reasoned opinion.
I see your points and agree with them, but I still believe there are qualities in ourselves that are unique to us to the extent that we may respond to discipline in different ways. One of the four children may be uniquely sensitive and a finely tuned artist and if there would have been need for discipline, a few words would have been enough. Whereas her sister may be a very competitive sports person who has always taken chances with a much greater sense of adventure and getting into regular mischief, she would obviously need a different kind of discipline. So wise parents may deal differently with the two. The one is an artist, the other a sports achiever.
jeffryjon
I like the points raised in the several posts above. There are different starting points and some learn quicker than others (either in specific subject areas or in general), though faith in oneself may be an achievable goal. I'll use some examples below - though first I must emphasize that these cases are not absolute truths - I'm using them purely for the purpose of showing a concept.

We can all learn to walk.

We can all learn to talk.

We can all learn to dress ourselves.

We can all learn to drive a car.

Quite obviously these are all examples of statements that are not true in any absolute sense, and they would need rewording with a great deal more clarity to make them true. That said, is there a potential for the following?

We can all learn to have faith in ourselves.

If so, it would be more than worthwhile developing a methodology to make that a reality.
Bluedoll
We can all learn to get along with each other.
We can all learn to have a relationship.
We can all learn from each others mistakes
On the board, if a poster wants to have faith with the expectation that everything you write will not get challenged may be unrewarding in the end. As far as debate is concerned, I agree for the purpose of interaction it may be necessary to develop a methodology to have some kind of limited success.

In life, for personal development however depending on the part of the human experience is their spirituality. Humans can shut it out in the same way as they can deaden their conscience or their capacity to love. For some the mention of God is a desirable experience and productive in creating a strong faith in themselves (completely) to the max.
deanhills
Bluedoll wrote:
We can all learn to get along with each other.
We can all learn to have a relationship.
We can all learn from each others mistakes
On the board, if a poster wants to have faith with the expectation that everything you write will not get challenged may be unrewarding in the end. As far as debate is concerned, I agree for the purpose of interaction it may be necessary to develop a methodology to have some kind of limited success.

In life, for personal development however depending on the part of the human experience is their spirituality. Humans can shut it out in the same way as they can deaden their conscience or their capacity to love. For some the mention of God is a desirable experience and productive in creating a strong faith in themselves (completely) to the max.
I thought jeffryjon was thinking more along the lines of our own relationship with ourselves, and having faith in ourselves. As of course if we don't have faith in ourselves, that would have a negative impact in our relationships with others in that we won't have faith in them either. How we look at others is often a mirror of our relationship with ourselves.
jeffryjon
deanhills wrote:
I thought jeffryjon was thinking more along the lines of our own relationship with ourselves, and having faith in ourselves. As of course if we don't have faith in ourselves, that would have a negative impact in our relationships with others in that we won't have faith in them either. How we look at others is often a mirror of our relationship with ourselves.


Deanhills you're absolutely on the ball there - that's exactly the sort of thing I was referring to. In my case, the faith in self was further developed after an 'awakening', though I recognize that to be quite rare in percentage terms. It wasn't an awakening to an outside 'God', but I suppose a Christian would say that it was an awakening to 'The Kingdom of God being within me'. Though I've been deliberately avoiding religious/spiritual terminology until now because even I associate with the realization as a knowing without words. I if were to put it into words it would be something like 'The potential to do or be anything in life is within you'. The only problem with that is for me it's just something that spontaneously dawned on me and through time and repeated personal experiments, I found it to stand the test of truth - there was no methodology to the initial realization.

I used the walking/talking/dressing/driving example above because for most of us something 'clicks' and triggers us to realize "I can do that too". We begin to define ourselves as someone with the potential for walking/talking etc. In a family where all our peers are doctors/lawyers/professors/sports people (people who excel in some way), we often see patterns in the children - some put it down to genetics, good schooling etc, though is it because it's easier to have faith in your own potential when a large number of your peers are successful? In my case, that wasn't true and even taking into account I didn't have a very good head-start, I can now stand my own in these and other types of environments. What if anything, can we teach/train into people en-masse to trigger that realization for those with less fortunate backgrounds? In particular with children because on the whole they are not yet self-defined.

Dangers are there I know, in that there 'is/have been' those who'll show others if they convert to some doctrine or another (usually religious/political), but behind that somewhere must be a common trigger that awakens/reawakens the faith in self that will drive us to get the best from life.
deanhills
jeffryjon wrote:
It wasn't an awakening to an outside 'God', but I suppose a Christian would say that it was an awakening to 'The Kingdom of God being within me'. Though I've been deliberately avoiding religious/spiritual terminology until now because even I associate with the realization as a knowing without words.
Agreed on both counts. For me it is all part of one whole in which all things are perfectly connected with one another through spirit.
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