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do you support Obama?





Cliffer
i wanna know in US or in your own country,do you like Obama to be the president?do you support him?
menino
I do like Obama, even though, he has not lived up to his promises and expectations, because of the way he came up. He did study hard, and has helped people, and I think he is a nice guy.
Its probably his administration as well that has a hand in the current state of things, and its not his fault that the economic crisis happened in the first place.

India and Indians in general do support him, and does like him, even before his visit to India a few weeks ago.

Now that I know more about Mccain, and if Palin is not anywhere in the republican candidacy, I would now support McCain, as he has some realistic goals set in mind.

But I'm glad that there was an opportunity for a black president to be part of the US, otherwise it would have created other controversies and backlashes.
jwellsy
What does this have to do with world news?
PGe-tips
I do support Obama ... was indeed time for a change
deanhills
jwellsy wrote:
What does this have to do with world news?
Well, for people who are not from the United States perhaps, it would come under the heading of "World News"? Smile

I'm not a great fan of Obama's, however have a strong feeling he is going to get a second presidency. As I don't see anyone else in either the Democratic and Republican Party that could be any real competition for him. I wonder where the real leaders of the United States are presently? Perhaps they just don't want to do politics?
gverutes
I support him over the tea party...that's for certain.
watersoul
I don't think any leader truly "leads" in the sense we understand because the machinery of government is so much bigger than the individual who is in power for a short elected term.
I remember watching a live interview with a former prime minister, just hours after Cameron became prime minister of the UK this year. The ex-PM was asked (paraphrase) "what changes can we expect now he's finally got the job?" to which the ex-PM actually laughed and replied (paraphrase again) "Lets wait until he's been security briefed before we can answer that!"

The inference was clearly that there are issues in security cleared circles that even elected MP's cannot consider so to me this implied a more controlled form of elected freedom to what we imagine is the case.

I don't know obviously, but I myself have been involved in lower level deceptive work when in the civil service. I spent many hours destroying files prior to the time Britain passed the "freedom of information act" which allowed citizens access to information the state holds on them.
If my lower level actions indicated anything to me, it was that the higher levels must carry out much more deceptive work, and the whole governmental machine we know is simply whatever it wants us to think it is.

Obama the man may well be good, but his good hands will be tied to a big extent by the government machine that is bigger than him.

*edit*
I signed the Official Secrets Act before doing any of that so I guess if "the state" wanted, I could be in trouble for this post, I'll run with the risk though, there are far more "risks to the state" than me! lol

*2nd edit*
Prosecuting Cases Where Public Servants Have Disclosed Confidential Information
Quote:
The maximum penalty under the Act is 2 years' imprisonment. Prosecutions for offences under the 1989 Act require the prior consent of the Attorney General except for offences contrary to section 4(2) where the consent of the DPP is required.
ocalhoun
deanhills wrote:
jwellsy wrote:
What does this have to do with world news?
Well, for people who are not from the United States perhaps, it would come under the heading of "World News"? Smile

Well, that justifies the 'world'... but how do you satisfy the 'news' part?
agbor
I have have this great feeling for obama and when it came to election time their are things we must consider in voting leaders anywhere in the world.

I voted for obama for these reasons:

1. He is very intelligent.

2. He has this brave looks.

3. He is black.

4. He is the right man.

5. He can deliver.

Am so happy he finally won.
ocalhoun
agbor wrote:

I voted for obama for these reasons:

1. He is very intelligent.

2. He has this brave looks.

3. He is black.

4. He is the right man.

5. He can deliver.


I notice that none of these 5 things has anything to do with Obama's actual positions and policies on any issue.
Numbers 2 and 3 are particularly troubling criteria to choose a leader by.

Democracy is doomed.
*sad*
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:

Democracy is doomed.
*sad*
Agreed, but as it stands, can one really say the US has a democratic system of governing? Since this is going off topic and maybe a very interesting question, I thought I should start a new thread on this.
standready
ocalhoun wrote:
agbor wrote:

I voted for obama for these reasons:

1. He is very intelligent.

2. He has this brave looks.

3. He is black.

4. He is the right man.

5. He can deliver.


I notice that none of these 5 things has anything to do with Obama's actual positions and policies on any issue.
Numbers 2 and 3 are particularly troubling criteria to choose a leader by.

Democracy is doomed.
*sad*


Thank you, ocalhoun. Very well said. I had remained silent for lack of appropriate wording.
bojanmilojkovic77
I dont support Obama.
Segun3d
menino wrote:
I do like Obama, even though, he has not lived up to his promises and expectations, because of the way he came up. He did study hard, and has helped people, and I think he is a nice guy.
Its probably his administration as well that has a hand in the current state of things, and its not his fault that the economic crisis happened in the first place.

India and Indians in general do support him, and does like him, even before his visit to India a few weeks ago.

Now that I know more about Mccain, and if Palin is not anywhere in the republican candidacy, I would now support McCain, as he has some realistic goals set in mind.

But I'm glad that there was an opportunity for a black president to be part of the US, otherwise it would have created other controversies and backlashes.
Very Happy obama is a man of dreams and can stand the test of time,the first real american president to emerg from africa
achowles
UK

I certainly would have voted for him over McCain. But when it comes down to it he's a pretty average politician at a time when America needs a truly fantastic one. But I don't think that finding a fantastic leader is going to prove easy, if it's at all possible.

When it comes down to it I'd call him by far the best option out of a choice of some very poor options. If he's seriously going to be running against Palin of all people in 2012 then that's only going to be all the more true. I don't think Americans need to be in a position where they're remembering Bush fondly.
deanhills
achowles wrote:
UK

I certainly would have voted for him over McCain. But when it comes down to it he's a pretty average politician at a time when America needs a truly fantastic one. But I don't think that finding a fantastic leader is going to prove easy, if it's at all possible.

When it comes down to it I'd call him by far the best option out of a choice of some very poor options. If he's seriously going to be running against Palin of all people in 2012 then that's only going to be all the more true. I don't think Americans need to be in a position where they're remembering Bush fondly.
Exactly my take on it too. You put it very well. I was also thinking that having such mediocre politicians standing for the highest office cannot be an inspiration for those who would have been better candidates. Maybe it is a political system that just sucks badly, such as making such a public spectacle out of every election. One has to have an almost 100% clean background including members of the family. One also has to present oneself in a marketing way making a bit of a joke out of it all. Almost like a circus at time. Has to be really stressful whereas those better candidates could do much better in private enterprise or in NGOs.
achowles
deanhills wrote:
Exactly my take on it too. You put it very well. I was also thinking that having such mediocre politicians standing for the highest office cannot be an inspiration for those who would have been better candidates. Maybe it is a political system that just sucks badly, such as making such a public spectacle out of every election. One has to have an almost 100% clean background including members of the family. One also has to present oneself in a marketing way making a bit of a joke out of it all. Almost like a circus at time. Has to be really stressful whereas those better candidates could do much better in private enterprise or in NGOs.


I'd also argue that the two party system and sheer ton weight of money needed to buy the... sorry, fund the election campaign are also very constrictive when it comes to potential candidates.

As for having a clean background, Bush has nothing of the sort. His drink and drugs binging was legendary (some of his more embarrassing videos are from that period). But luckily for him the whole Christian convert stunt was bought by the voters hook, line and sinker.
ocalhoun
achowles wrote:
But luckily for him the whole Christian convert stunt was bought by the voters hook, line and sinker.

Hmm... Perhaps with a similar stunt I could actually get into politics... Twisted Evil
achowles
ocalhoun wrote:
Hmm... Perhaps with a similar stunt I could actually get into politics... Twisted Evil


Religion has long been used as a means of political control. But I don't know if I could maintain that level of deception while under constant public scrutiny.

If you manage it then please use your powers for good, won't you? FREE COOKIES FOR ALL!
deanhills
achowles wrote:
As for having a clean background, Bush has nothing of the sort. His drink and drugs binging was legendary (some of his more embarrassing videos are from that period). But luckily for him the whole Christian convert stunt was bought by the voters hook, line and sinker.
Are you sure however that that was what got him in though? Wasn't it his family's connections in the oil and gas industries?
achowles
deanhills wrote:
Are you sure however that that was what got him in though? Wasn't it his family's connections in the oil and gas industries?


Without a doubt that's what got him his candidacy. His brother, Jeb being Florida's governor at the time of all those votes going missing? Oh, that's just a coincidence. After all, at the time Jeb Bush was all in Lee L Mercer's house with disease (56).
Cliffer
i made this investigation here for Obama,i hope he can read all of your threads.and if he gives me money and let my life happy,i will support him.
ocalhoun
Cliffer wrote:
i made this investigation here for Obama,i hope he can read all of your threads.and if he gives me money and let my life happy,i will support him.

Personally, I demand more of a leader... such as acting for the benefit of everyone, and the group as a whole... not just benefiting me personally.
(That's just me though, you do what you want.)
Cliffer
ocalhoun wrote:
Cliffer wrote:
i made this investigation here for Obama,i hope he can read all of your threads.and if he gives me money and let my life happy,i will support him.

Personally, I demand more of a leader... such as acting for the benefit of everyone, and the group as a whole... not just benefiting me personally.
(That's just me though, you do what you want.)


yes yes,benefit of everyone! no people,no country.
Voodoocat
Support him? No way. He seems to be in over his head. Our economy is still struggling, the housing market is still down and unemployment has not budged. Oh yeah, our national debt has skyrocketed over the last two years.
deanhills
Voodoocat wrote:
Support him? No way. He seems to be in over his head. Our economy is still struggling, the housing market is still down and unemployment has not budged. Oh yeah, our national debt has skyrocketed over the last two years.
Isn't that how people perceived Bush too but of course using other reasons of why they did not like him, yet come the second election, he won by a clear majority? What is it that when a President is obviously not highly regarded, he still gets to make it to a second term?
Voodoocat
Quote:
What is it that when a President is obviously not highly regarded, he still gets to make it to a second term?


I don't care about a president's popularity; I am concerned about their ability to achieve the goals that I am interested in: strong national defense, limited spending, individual responsibility and a strong belief in the constitution.

A great example:

President Lincoln, inarguably one of our greatest presidents, was also one of the least popular. Nowadays we might find this unbelievable, but remember the times.

Quote:
Lincoln had won the 1860 election in November with 39.8 percent of the popular vote. This absurdly low total was partly due to the fact that four candidates were on the ballot, but it remains the poorest showing by any winning presidential candidate in American history


http://www.civilwar.org/hallowed-ground-magazine/unpopular-mr-lincoln.html

If the choice is between doing what is right and being popular, always choose doing right.
deanhills
Voodoocat wrote:
Quote:
What is it that when a President is obviously not highly regarded, he still gets to make it to a second term?


I don't care about a president's popularity; I am concerned about their ability to achieve the goals that I am interested in: strong national defense, limited spending, individual responsibility and a strong belief in the constitution.

A great example:

President Lincoln, inarguably one of our greatest presidents, was also one of the least popular. Nowadays we might find this unbelievable, but remember the times.

Quote:
Lincoln had won the 1860 election in November with 39.8 percent of the popular vote. This absurdly low total was partly due to the fact that four candidates were on the ballot, but it remains the poorest showing by any winning presidential candidate in American history


http://www.civilwar.org/hallowed-ground-magazine/unpopular-mr-lincoln.html

If the choice is between doing what is right and being popular, always choose doing right.
OK, but being unpopular is probably also not an indication of an effective President? How would you rate Obama for example?
ocalhoun
Voodoocat wrote:

President Lincoln, inarguably one of our greatest presidents, was also one of the least popular. Nowadays we might find this unbelievable, but remember the times.

Inarguably, eh?
I'll argue it. When your administration is so bad that half the country violently revolts against it, I'd say you're not one of the greatest ever.

A great president would have made (temporary) concessions to avert war, rather than fanning the flames in order to consolidate federal power.

Many say that Bush was the worst president ever for starting two small unnecessary wars, and yet they say Lincoln was great for encouraging an unnecessary war that is still the bloodiest in US history.

/rant over
Dialogist
Agbor's post was great. Very Happy I wanted him in because I wanted Dubya out but I don't necessarily like him in. He looks good and he's charismatic and charming but "change" has turned into "meh". I could criticize the man in greater depth concerning health care, economy and foreign activities but honestly? The alternative is Sarah Palin.
Voodoocat
Quote:
A great president would have made (temporary) concessions to avert war,


I'm sorry, but you are completely and horribly wrong. To continue enslaving mankind is one of the foulest acts of evil possible. If you believe that "temporary" concessions should have been allowed, when do these "temporary" concessions end? After ten years? What if the South still threatened war? A hundred years? What if the South again threatened war? Should we condone slavery today if the South threatens war?

Your arguement to continue slavery for any reason is completely reprehensible and shameful.

Please don't respond with "the Civil War was not fought only over slavery" cliche. Of course it was not, however, slavery was a major economic and political factor in secession.

Shame, shame, shame.
Dialogist
deanhills wrote:
What is it that when a President is obviously not highly regarded, he still gets to make it to a second term?


*removed dead link*
deanhills
@dialogist ..... I looked up the Website, but not so sure what you mean?
ocalhoun
When I said 'make concessions' I meant things like compensating former slave owners for the loss of property... Or perhaps such as 'leading by example'; freeing the Northern slaves first. (Instead of the whole 'we order you to free your slaves, but we're going to keep ours' thing.)
Making concessions doesn't mean you have to abandon your mission, just that you could be more tactful and accommodating in your efforts.

Voodoocat wrote:

Your arguement to continue slavery for any reason is completely reprehensible and shameful.

Let's see,
Option A: Allow 3.9 million* people remain enslaved.
Option B: Fight a war that kills 6.1 million**.
(Option C: Use diplomacy and sooner or later free the 3.9 million slaves without a bloody war.)

Completely reprehensible and shameful to choose A, hm?
Slavery sucks, but war is worse.


*3.9 million slaves in the Southern states. The 1.7 million slaves in the Northern states could presumably be freed without a war.
** Some estimates put the number as high as 7 million, but I used the confirmed figure of 6.1 million.
Dialogist
deanhills wrote:
@dialogist ..... I looked up the Website, but not so sure what you mean?


Sorry, I hotlinked somebody's image I guess.

It was this:

http://disorden.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/obama-do-this.jpg

I was just suggesting that his popularity owes more to Denzel Washington than George Washington. But this is the world we live in.
menino
deanhills wrote:
achowles wrote:
UK

I certainly would have voted for him over McCain. But when it comes down to it he's a pretty average politician at a time when America needs a truly fantastic one. But I don't think that finding a fantastic leader is going to prove easy, if it's at all possible.

When it comes down to it I'd call him by far the best option out of a choice of some very poor options. If he's seriously going to be running against Palin of all people in 2012 then that's only going to be all the more true. I don't think Americans need to be in a position where they're remembering Bush fondly.
Exactly my take on it too. You put it very well. I was also thinking that having such mediocre politicians standing for the highest office cannot be an inspiration for those who would have been better candidates. Maybe it is a political system that just sucks badly, such as making such a public spectacle out of every election. One has to have an almost 100% clean background including members of the family. One also has to present oneself in a marketing way making a bit of a joke out of it all. Almost like a circus at time. Has to be really stressful whereas those better candidates could do much better in private enterprise or in NGOs.


I agree with achowles where he is an average president, where MORE needs to be done by him, and which was expected by almost everyone.
At least he is average, and not a terrible president, and right now his popularity is also weakening, in the polls.
But Obama seems to handle himself quite fairly during interviews, and is quite confident and composed.

The other thing to consider, is that if Obama was not elected this time, people would never know how good or bad he was, and there would always be speculation, and racial tentions.
Its a good thing that he did become president, and I do believe that the economy is taking shape, and he had a part to play in it, albeit not all were good decisions.
Still.... he had his chance, and I think next term elections will fruit a better president with better leadership.

I still do like Obama, but not as much as I did when he was first elected.
deanhills
menino wrote:
I still do like Obama, but not as much as I did when he was first elected.
I don't dislike Obama. I don't think anyone can really dislike him as he is almost too polite and very courteous. I was never really in favour of him when he was elected, but in absence of better choices he was the better one of the two candidates.
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