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Question about this forum





Afaceinthematrix
This is the description of the forum:

Forum for religious topics, like a (dis)belief in one or more gods. Please note that the discussion is limited to the beliefs of the first post of the topic.

So does that mean that the challenging and debate (about religion and faith) has to stay in the philosophy and religion forum and that this is a section just to pat each other on the back for having the same belief? Example:

1: I believe in God!
2: Sweet! So do I?
3: Wait, we're talking about the Christian god, right?
1: Yup!
3: Sweet, dudes! I believe in God, too.
4: I don't think any god exists
1: THERE IS A GOD! And you're off topic because we can only talk about my god in this forum!

I can see how there can be some sort of discussion here, but it won't be often. I guess that various Christians can discuss their interpretations on the Bible but when an atheist comes in and tries to talk about their interpretation (which will be on topic, I assume, as long as they don't mention their atheism), there will likely be problems and then people will start to complain again... Let's just see how it works...
LittleBlackKitten
The idea is basically that those who want to converse about faith/religion without the attack, judgement, challenge, and overall "you're wrong" ness that happens over in the other forum, can come in here and talk about whatever they believe in. If they are open to and are willing to take the challenges that atheists believe, then they can post over in the Philosophy and Religion board.

Bondings, correct me if I am wrong here but it seems that even athiests can post an athiestic board in Faith and not have to worry about Christians going "You're wrong" and even those who question faith altogether can come in to Faith and post something, and those who want to interact about that topic in a positive light CAN. It's just a lower-key non-judgmental non-attacking place to talk about things with like-minded members of the Forum without feeling attacked - and that INCLUDES athiests and theologians.
Bondings
Yes, it's pretty much like LittleBlackKitten mentioned. It also includes atheists indeed. The forum is also in a testing phase.

I'll be making a featured discussion to clarify things and most likely also a sticky in each forum.
ocalhoun
Afaceinthematrix wrote:

So does that mean that the challenging and debate (about religion and faith) has to stay in the philosophy and religion forum and that this is a section just to pat each other on the back for having the same belief? Example:

1: I believe in God!
2: Sweet! So do I?
3: Wait, we're talking about the Christian god, right?
1: Yup!
3: Sweet, dudes! I believe in God, too.
4: I don't think any god exists
1: THERE IS A GOD! And you're off topic because we can only talk about my god in this forum!


It doesn't have to be all 'patting on the back'...
It's just meant to get rid of the red in discussions like the following:

1: Does God pre-determine who will be saved or not, or is every person able to make his own choice?
2: The scripture says here that it is pre-determined <quote>
1: But what about when Jeebus said ________?
3: 1 is right, it makes no sense for it to be pre-determined because...
4: None of this matters because God doesn't exist and nobody gets saved.
1: But God DOES exist!
4: No, he doesn't
3: Can we get back on topic?
1: Of course he exists, where do you think the universe came from?
3: I has a sad.
Bluedoll
The section name is faith. Can we define faith? At least from a “this is what this section is about” definition.
Faith is . . .
a religious belief
a belief in something without proof

Perhaps the key element for this section might be a belief without proof. That is what faith is, any faith. In philosophy/religion section discussion is based on you need to ‘proof it” to be taken seriously.
Would it be correct to say this means if a belief is stated in the first post discussion can take place without a calling for (unreasonable) proof and respect given to the topic.

discussion example

C- There is a God that cares about this section.
A- What makes you think this?
C -It says in the bible at Luke 1 _____
r -Nonsense, that book is a conspiracy and a fabrication. Can you proof it isn’t? (not ok)
A -That verse might mean something else _____ (is not anything like the above)

_____________________________


In regards to a versus c, I suppose it would be correct to say if the topic is about Creation then someone posting under that topic “there is no god you moron” would be restricted and similarly a topic about Evolution then someone posting under that topic “you need to shut up about this lie” is also restricted. - seems fair

@Afaceinthematrix
It will be interesting to see if the Atheist is treated better in the faith section than the Christian in the p/r section.

@ocalhoun
1: But what about when Jeebus said ________? who be jeebuster you be talkin' bout there?
Rolling Eyes
liljp617
It will be interesting to see what use comes of this, when the requisite is: "...meaning that no heavy discussions and arguments are allowed." There doesn't seem to be that much room for interesting conversation.
ocalhoun
Bluedoll wrote:

@ocalhoun
1: But what about when Jeebus said ________? who be jeebuster you be talkin' bout there?
Rolling Eyes

The one and only son of Ceiling Cat of course!
Bluedoll
@ocalhoun
Well can sure see what this is going to be like!
Da Rossa
Lets see it working. Don't create the expectation that this is going to ruin.
Bluedoll
Da Rossa wrote:
Lets see it working. Don't create the expectation that this is going to ruin.
I am seeing it working.
In the very first post, a question and already Jesus Christ whom some hold as a blessing is disrespected.
Depicted as a funny man and called a funny little name “ceiling cat”. It does set the stage for more fun ridicule. Next will come the rocks, thorns and nails driven in.
c'tair
Always the optimist, Bluedoll Razz .
Da Rossa
Let's Jesus guide this forum! Smile
Bluedoll
c'tair wrote:
Always the optimist, Bluedoll Razz .
You are reading me and that is ok.

If you want to know how I feel I will tell you. It is pessimistic, yes because I believe there are some members that are not open to any change. I think some can not have reasonable discussions on subjects on faith that would require mutual respect because they are incapable of doing so. They can only accept a heavy debate or a sarcastic put down style discussions with little respect.

I do like hearing all points of view in a serious discussion but without funny or not so funny razz remarks but then that is only one opinion of what a discussion could be like?

As I said before, if people by posting differently than what they have been used to doing does happen, it proves me wrong about this and I could only be happy with it. So yeah, for now I am pessimistic.

@Da Rossa
Smile
Bikerman
If you mean me then relax. I am just as bound by the meaning and spirit of the TOS as everyone else - more so as a moderator.
I will respect the spirit as well as the literal description of the new forum if/when I post.
Afaceinthematrix
Bluedoll wrote:
I am seeing it working.
In the very first post, a question and already Jesus Christ whom some hold as a blessing is disrespected.
Depicted as a funny man and called a funny little name “ceiling cat”. It does set the stage for more fun ridicule. Next will come the rocks, thorns and nails driven in.


Well, I am the original poster and so I can say that Jesus is a little piece of crap that deserves to be disrespected. Now ocalhoun's "disrespect" is completely justified because he is posting in my thread and I am under that opinion of Jesus. I despise that I am daily related to Jesus by various ignorant fools who think that Jesus would have actually looked like the picture that ocalhoun posted. And even if he did, then it's not like I'm not only person with long hair and a beard on this planet... And my beard long enough to braid (which I sometimes do) yet that Jesus has a trimmed beard!

Quote:
If you want to know how I feel I will tell you. It is pessimistic, yes because I believe there are some members that are not open to any change. I think some can not have reasonable discussions on subjects on faith that would require mutual respect because they are incapable of doing so. They can only accept a heavy debate or a sarcastic put down style discussions with little respect.


You're failing to explain to me why all positions should be respected. I don't respect the opinions of most people because not only do I find them to be wrong, but often I find them to be dangerous, immoral, or something else. If you're under the opinion, for instance, that Creationism should be taught in schools, then I definitely will not respect your opinion because I find it to be dangerous to our educational system which affects us all. If you're under the opinion that the god of the Abrahamaic religion exists and you worship him, then I think you're immoral for worshiping a mass murderer. If you're under the opinion that drugs should be illegal, then I think you're immoral because you don't believe in freedom. So you really do not have to respect everyone's opinion...

That is probably why I won't post much here... I'll follow the rules, which will probably force me to not post here much. I only started this topic so that everyone (including me) would have an understanding of the rules...
Bluedoll
@Afaceinthematrix
Since the original post was a question about the forum section in general and not really about any specific religious view then discussing . .?

If the topic was = Jesus is a ______.
Posting dialogue to that topic something contrasting might be permissable,
but always would have to maintain the view of the original posted topic.
I might not agree with it.
I believe it means, I would have to respect the view/opinion of the original post in regards to the topic.

_________

I am actually not saying any of the things you mentioned including that all positions should be respected but that respect needs to be given to the topic or there will be no distinction.

I believe there is room for some discussion within a viewpoint and expressing that in a respectful manner with an eye to the original post is possible.
I interpet by reading your post you think every discussion that is not inline with your opinion must be disrespected!
In my opinion, this is only a lack in the ability to express.
ocalhoun
Bluedoll wrote:
@Afaceinthematrix
Since the original post was a question about the forum section in general and not really about any specific religious view then discussing . .?

Therefore, there is no restriction on religious discussion within this particular topic. ^.^

(I already knew that Afaceinthematrix was most certainly not a devout Christian; I would not have posted the same way otherwise, given the restrictions inherent in this forum.)

Though an argument could be made for saying that you couldn't completely contradict the original post's ideas about how the forum works ...
ocalhoun
Da Rossa wrote:
There's nothing for people like him in here. It's even a waste of time.

I see where this is headed, and it ain't pretty.

This is not a 'religious people only' and 'respect God' forum.
The no-debating-against-first-post rule is about preventing 'trolls' from completely derailing various topics with off-topic theist vs. atheist debate.

*heads off to start an atheist topic within this forum*
Da Rossa
Even about an eventual atheist topic. I don't think he's going to take it seriously. My opinion, but I know it's irrelevant.
Vrythramax
Da Rossa wrote:
Even about an eventual atheist topic. I don't think he's going to take it seriously. My opinion, but I know it's irrelevant.


Does everyone here know what "Flamebait" is??

We are all entitled to our opinions, but we also have to admit that diplomacy (not to mention Frihost Rules) dictates that sometimes we should keep our opinions to ourselves.
Bluedoll
Afaceinthematrix wrote:
So does that mean that the challenging and debate (about religion and faith) has to stay in the philosophy

Ultimately this all comes down to 2 things. How this section is monitored and how this section will be defined by members.
Perhaps challenging and heavy debate styles about any topic should go to the philosophy section.

These are questions for members:

Why do some members persist in wanting every section in the whole forum for debate?

And put a stop to any discussions from occurring in any section on the forum?

If this section (which has not been defined yet) turns out to be for an approach to discussion only,
What is wrong with that for any member?

Afaceinthematrix wrote:

I can see how there can be some sort of discussion here, but it won't be often. I guess that various Christians can discuss their interpretations on the Bible but when an atheist comes in and tries to talk about their interpretation . . and then people will start to complain again... Let's just see how it works...


Other questions:

If a section is developed for discussion only and not debate?
And an atheist viewpoint is discussed in a non-debate manner does it lessen the viewpoint?

Shame on you Or must it be always be fiery debates from all sides? (of all belief's)
Bondings
This topic is heading into heavy debate itself and since it isn't allowed, I'm closing this topic now.

I think the question about the forum intent/purpose has been answered. I think ocalhoun has worded it the best:
ocalhoun wrote:
This is not a 'religious people only' and 'respect God' forum.
The no-debating-against-first-post rule is about preventing 'trolls' from completely derailing various topics with off-topic theist vs. atheist debate.
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