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"The educated elite"-who are they?





chasbeen
Never before has so much information been available as we now have the web, a huge resource.
I believe that there are some unofficial geniuses out there with no formal degree but have minds so full of information they actually have a superior knowledge about certain subjects than people with degrees.

One result of this might be that people in the future turn up to sit their finals without any formal university education.

Do you think this could happen and in what other areas can you see it affecting the educated elite?

"The educated elite"-who are they?
Bikerman
The internet is good for developing a general knowledge, but it is still pretty poor for developing deep knowledge. There is too much nonsense and misinformation which makes filtering skills vital. I would say that the internet has the potential to develop filtering 'geniuses' who can filter good information from bad almost instinctively - that itself is a fantastic skill.
As far as comparing with graduates - certainly I think that is true and I'll use myself as an example. I believe (perhaps mistakenly, but I think not) that I have as much knowledge in physics as the average physics graduate. Why do I believe this? Well I help to run a forum for scientists and those interested in science and I am in frequent long and deep conversation with working physicists - some with Doctorates and other post-grad qualifications and expertise. I used to find it surprising to be correcting physics graduates, but now it has become almost routine.
This isn't an ego trip - it has taken me much longer than the normal 3 years to gain the knowledge in physics that I now have, so it isn't some particular genius on my part, and it isn't a particularly efficient way of gaining expertise, but it certainly supports your thesis, at least in part.
chasbeen
C

And (like traditional specialists in their fields) some of these self taught internet specialists actually add to areas of these accepted disciplins of study.

For example a mathematics expert actually discovering new theorems.

Also maybe consider some emulation facilities that are becoming more powerful.

Mathematics tries to emulate reality and now with readily available computing power the previously recognised educated elite are recieving
new shadow members.

These shadow members don't have the recognised qualifications but what if they start breaking new ground that actually results in new discoveries.

Also are there new subjects of study being created?

A list of broad subjects might be.

Science and Mathematics
Economics
Psychology

However Economics and Psychology are actually related to Science and Mathematics.

"The educated elite"-who are they?
Bikerman
The educated elite used to be those who went to prep school, then on to Eton/Harrow junior school, Rugby or other boarding school and straight into Oxford/Cambridge university to read classics. From there they would either go into business with Daddy or go into the Civil service on a fast-track.
I'm betting that if I surveyed the top 100 Mandarins (top civil servants) then 70 plus percent will be from that route....
watersoul
Bikerman wrote:
The educated elite used to be those who went to prep school, then on to Eton/Harrow junior school, Rugby or other boarding school and straight into Oxford/Cambridge university to read classics. From there they would either go into business with Daddy or go into the Civil service on a fast-track.
I'm betting that if I surveyed the top 100 Mandarins (top civil servants) then 70 plus percent will be from that route....


I won't disagree with that, my son won his place at the top performing school (by results) for many miles around, after much hard work and studying. That said, he will still have to fight for everything he gets in life because unfortunately for him I'm not part of any "old boys network" of riches and money.

I would still say he's in a position of educational elitism compared to the other schools he could have gone to - the science lab's are of university standard, the teachers are of top quality, and some of his classmates travel an hour by train to get to this school in preference to what's local to them. Other parents are helicopter pilots, architects, and even a couple of doctors, but this selective state school still has results that beat the fee paying private scools.

It costs me an arm and a leg to ensure he "has everything everyone else has", but if his education is given a kick start by studying where he does, it will always be worth it. And if he reaches some great heights in the future it will be solely through his own hard work so he can look at any Eton student in the eye and be proud of what he achieved without the luxuries/benefits of dad's contacts.
Bikerman
I would never scorn a parent who put their child through the best education they could afford - I'm a teacher Smile
I do regret that we have public schools (and even more that we have church schools) since I was and am a supporter of comprehensive education and it is my opinion that having an 'opt out' allows the middle and upper-middle classes to ignore what goes on in state schools because they have no direct investment in them. I am pretty sure that if all kids went to comprehensives then those parents would be driving up standards as hard as they could.
But I am not going to criticise any parent who takes the option of public school education for their child, socialist or not (unless they are a politician who has made speaches and adopted public positions that parents should send their children to state schools, mentioning no names *cough* Diane Abbot, Ruth Kelly.
watersoul
Same here, it angers me that per capita, more money is actually spent in my son's school than the under performing comp's locally.
I was always dead against this having come from a comprehensive school background myself. How on earth can it be right that we lump the most advantaged kids together (parental input as well as financial security) but spend less on the disadvanted many. It isn't right, but when it came to the 11+ and my son's success, I as a parent could feel nothing but happiness for him getting the best route available.
I still wish the system was different, but of course as most parents probably do, I focus rather selfishly on the best for my own child.
Bikerman
And I might well do the same if I had kids. I think most parents would and I'm not dogmatic or hypocritical enough to criticise them for it (I would have done in my youth - I was a member of the Socialist Workers Party and fancied myself as a marxist revolutionary....Smile )
watersoul
Bikerman wrote:
...and fancied myself as a marxist revolutionary....Smile )


Lol, same here for me in the days BC (before child), but when it came down to it, I just ended up swallowing all my indignant pride and running with the best bits available in the imperfect system we have at present.

...such a sell-out!! Embarassed
Bikerman
What I don't get is that kids nowadays DON'T become radical left-wing trots or marxists. Most of my students are more right-wing than me - that is scarey. Everyone under the age of 25 should be a marxist, or at least a hard-line socialist. Then you have room to move to the right as you age. Where these young buggers will end up doesn't bear thinking about - to the right of Norman Tebbit but slightly to the left of Ghengis Khan, I suspect Smile
watersoul
Bikerman wrote:
What I don't get is that kids nowadays DON'T become radical left-wing trots or marxists...


MTV, Jackass, Dirty Sanchez and other shallow distractions.
My lad totally understands it, and being in the rugby teams (school & town) he luckily has the physical presence to be able to be confident enough to express this socialist belief of "help fellow man" without being called gay or whatever.
Some views will always be nicer than others, and maybe the true "educated elite" are the ones who see the deeper side of our world without necessarily being taught it first at an educational establishment?
Bikerman
watersoul wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
What I don't get is that kids nowadays DON'T become radical left-wing trots or marxists...


MTV, Jackass, Dirty Sanchez and other shallow distractions.
My lad totally understands it, and being in the rugby teams (school & town) he luckily has the physical presence to be able to be confident enough to express this socialist belief of "help fellow man" without being called gay or whatever.
Some views will always be nicer than others, and maybe the true "educated elite" are the ones who see the deeper side of our world without necessarily being taught it first at an educational establishment?

There is something in that methinks...I wouldn't want to support it entirely, but certainly a kernel of truth...
watersoul
Bikerman wrote:
watersoul wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
What I don't get is that kids nowadays DON'T become radical left-wing trots or marxists...


MTV, Jackass, Dirty Sanchez and other shallow distractions.
My lad totally understands it, and being in the rugby teams (school & town) he luckily has the physical presence to be able to be confident enough to express this socialist belief of "help fellow man" without being called gay or whatever.
Some views will always be nicer than others, and maybe the true "educated elite" are the ones who see the deeper side of our world without necessarily being taught it first at an educational establishment?

There is something in that methinks...I wouldn't want to support it entirely, but certainly a kernel of truth...


...perhaps just an acorn of truth with tree aspirations Smile lol
adri
Bikerman wrote:
What I don't get is that kids nowadays DON'T become radical left-wing trots or marxists. Most of my students are more right-wing than me - that is scarey. Everyone under the age of 25 should be a marxist, or at least a hard-line socialist. Then you have room to move to the right as you age. Where these young buggers will end up doesn't bear thinking about - to the right of Norman Tebbit but slightly to the left of Ghengis Khan, I suspect Smile


Well I was like that (=right-wing) when I was fourteen-sixteen (you can even see this in my old frihost posts where I referred to be a Flemish person, where as now I would call myself a Belgian :p ). But when you learn to understand the history of all the problems nowadays (in my country and of the world), your vision changes and new political ideas develop. Smile I now situate myself almost in the middle but more to left than to the right.


adri :p
bukaida
The children of today are much matured and realistic( Read Materialistic) than those 15-20 Yrs ago. They are very particular about their demands. Also they are much informative ( not intelligent) due to various media available.
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