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New Wikileaks releases





Bikerman
Wikileaks released thousands of classified documents concerning the Iraq war a few days ago. Previously they released similar quantities of documents concerning the Afghanistan war.

These new documents seem to prove that, despite many times saying that no casualty figures were kept, the US and UK forces did indeed keep such figures, in considerable detail. They also seem to show new cases of torture and killings by US troops and the Iraq regime it sponsors...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/22/iraq-war-logs-military-leaks
Aredon
Purely disgusting. I have no other word to describe these things. We are moving toward a world of hate and warfare, and it pains me deeply.
deanhills
Aredon wrote:
Purely disgusting. I have no other word to describe these things. We are moving toward a world of hate and warfare, and it pains me deeply.
Hasn't it been there all this time however, for centuries and centuries? Warfare? Cloak and dagger games? A fact of life? The only reason that I like the idea of Wikileaks is that it is keeping the military on their toes. A good sign of that information is being leaked and for them to check up where it is leaking. It also checks behaviour that has gone into excess through misuse of power, that otherwise may not have come to the knowledge of the top management in the Military.
ocalhoun
Though, on the flip side, the leaks present evidence that limited amounts of chemical weapons were found.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/wikileaks-show-wmd-hunt-continued-in-iraq-with-surprising-results/

Not enough to justify the fears being spread before the war, certainly... But not the squeaky-clean, nothing-at-all-there image portrayed by some either.

Finding something like what was mentioned in that article might be what was responsible for the faulty intelligence.
I find it easier to believe that the somewhat paranoid post-9/11 US government overestimated a real -- though small -- threat than to believe that it was a complete fabrication.
Bikerman
Well, we know that Sadam did have chemical weapons and biological weapons at some point - largely because we sold them to him (certainly in the case of biological weapons). It is no great surprise that evidence of such weapons was found. Contrast that, however, with the 'detailed intelligence' showing trucks and factories which were 'certainly' weaponising chemical and biological agents.
The Intelligence was always shaky and the intelligence agencies SAID SO. It was the politicians who turned routine and unconfirmed intelligence reports into hard fact - for obvious reasons.
c'tair
^ Politicians always do that.

And as for the Wikileaks, I'm pretty happy about it. I haven't downloaded this release yet, I haven't even started on the last one, but I have to start soon to get up to date on that.

I think Wikileaks is one of the last few bastions of real journalism - people who want to expose the truth and not create sensationalism in order to sell advertisements in their newspapers or something. Just compare ANY newspaper or journal to Wikileaks and they all seem like mere tabloids.
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
Well, we know that Sadam did have chemical weapons and biological weapons at some point - largely because we sold them to him (certainly in the case of biological weapons). It is no great surprise that evidence of such weapons was found. Contrast that, however, with the 'detailed intelligence' showing trucks and factories which were 'certainly' weaponising chemical and biological agents.
The Intelligence was always shaky and the intelligence agencies SAID SO. It was the politicians who turned routine and unconfirmed intelligence reports into hard fact - for obvious reasons.
BINGO! For once I agree with you Bikerman. Most of the paranoia was founded in that countries like England, the United States and France, knew exactly what weapons of mass destruction the Iraqis were supposed to have because they sold the equipment to them and set it up for them. I believe there was a UN Weapon Inspector Scott Ritter who warned that the armaments embargo that had been imposed on Iraq for decades after that must have taken care of most of the problem:
Quote:
There’s no doubt Iraq hasn’t fully complied with its disarmament obligations as set forth by the Security Council in its resolution. But on the other hand, since 1998 Iraq has been fundamentally disarmed: 90-95% of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction capacity has been verifiably eliminated...

We have to remember that this missing 5-10% doesn’t necessarily constitute a threat... It constitutes bits and pieces of a weapons program which in its totality doesn’t amount to much, but which is still prohibited... We can’t give Iraq a clean bill of health, therefore we can’t close the book on their weapons of mass destruction. But simultaneously, we can’t reasonably talk about Iraqi non-compliance as representing a de-facto retention of a prohibited capacity worthy of war. (page twenty eight)

We eliminated the nuclear program, and for Iraq to have reconstituted it would require undertaking activities that would have been eminently detectable by intelligence services. (page 32)

If Iraq were producing [chemical] weapons today, we’d have proof, pure and simple. (page 37)

[A]s of December 1998 we had no evidence Iraq had retained biological weapons, nor that they were working on any. In fact, we had a lot of evidence to suggest Iraq was in compliance. (page 46)[10]
So maybe with regard to the above, Ocalhoun has it right too. They took it completely out of proportion, but politically probably served a good purpose as well for Bush.
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