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Obamacare Fiasco





Voodoocat
We all remember how important it was to pass Obamacare, right? "Trust us," said Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, "We know what is best for the country." We were told that the American public did not have to worry about reading the healthcare bill; after all, the details will come out after this great law has been passed.

Now the details are coming out, and it's not pretty.


How about this jewel hidden inside the health care law: all companies that do more than $600 per year of business with another company must send that company AND THE IRS a 1099 form documenting the business transactions.

Quote:
But starting in 2013 they will also have to report the value of goods they buy from a single vendor that total more than $600 annually—including office supplies and the like.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704518904575365223062942574.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

This means that a plumber must send Office Depot a 1099 for their copier paper, and Walmart a 1099 for oil changes! How about their cell phone bill? The company that repaired their photocopier? Or the company that they bought their new computer from. Or.....The list will be endless.

Why is this provision of the healthcare bill now Federal law? Ask your local Democrat. Remember, they told you to trust them and not read the bill. Well we did, and we are getting exactly what we deserve: more big brother from the big Democrats.


Quote:
In a Monday letter, even Democratic Senators Mark Begich (Alaska), Ben Nelson (Nebraska), Jeanne Shaheen (New Hampshire) and Evan Bayh (Indiana) denounce this new "burden" on small businesses and insist that the IRS use its discretion to find "better ways to structure this reporting requirement." In other words, they want regulators to fix one problem among many that all four Senators created by voting for ObamaCare


It's a shame that they did not read the bill in the first place.
handfleisch
Vood, have you ever taken a critical thinking class?
deanhills
@Voodoocat. That is exactly what I so much hate about those whopper hundreds of pages Bills, they get to hide stuff like what you have just mentioned. I'm almost certain there must be many other bits and pieces too, that have NOTHING to do with Health Care Insurance. To me this is Trojan Horse legislation. Slipping in bits and pieces by stealth.
ocalhoun
Voodoocat wrote:

Why is this provision of the healthcare bill now Federal law?


handfleisch wrote:
Vood, have you ever taken a critical thinking class?


Handfleisch is right... The answer is obvious.
It's in the bill because they were desperate to make it 'budget neutral'.
Since the bill costs the government scads of money, they could only do so by increasing revenue, and this is one of the ways they do so.

Yes, it will cut down on tax evasion... But it comes at a price:
1- The bureaucracy involved in filling out and filing the forms will be immense and costly, both to the government and private businesses.
2- The IRS will be forced to expand dramatically if they are to analyze and make use of the massive amounts of new data coming to them.
c'tair
^ But this is increasing the government's involvement in transactions between legal entities? On one side I know that smart, but massive regulation may really help out a country, but if it actually creates one huge bureaucracy then all has been for naught, because the bureaucracy will vacuum up extra funds, manpower and will add to delays, because all forms in the system have to be synchronized. This also opens up a vulnerable point for any "bandits", be it thieves, hackers, con-artists etc.
deanhills
c'tair wrote:
^ But this is increasing the government's involvement in transactions between legal entities? On one side I know that smart, but massive regulation may really help out a country, but if it actually creates one huge bureaucracy then all has been for naught, because the bureaucracy will vacuum up extra funds, manpower and will add to delays, because all forms in the system have to be synchronized. This also opens up a vulnerable point for any "bandits", be it thieves, hackers, con-artists etc.
Well said c'tair. And the more regulations there are, the more interpreting of the regulations would have to be done too, so your small businesses would have to employ expensive laywers and accountants to work through all the legal stuff. Life is about to become just that more complicated. At the same time, lawyers and accountants are good at finding loopholes, as there are bound to be ones. So your larger companies, who can afford those kind of lawyers and accountants will have more ways of hiding their finances. In the end it will obviously be your little person in the street who will have to suffer the most, by trying to figure his/her way through all the regulations, and maybe needing to hire an expensive tax consultant to file taxes. Not to mention the extra cost as already mentioned by c'tair, of implementing and administrating this enormous bureacracy.
Voodoocat
Quote:
Handfleisch is right... The answer is obvious.
It's in the bill because they were desperate to make it 'budget neutral'.


The answer is so obvious that even Democrats are trying to repeal it? The problem is glaring: the 1099 provision is so bad that many Democrats that voted for the bill are trying to get rid of it before it goes into effect!

Remember:

Quote:
In a Monday letter, even Democratic Senators Mark Begich (Alaska), Ben Nelson (Nebraska), Jeanne Shaheen (New Hampshire) and Evan Bayh (Indiana) denounce this new "burden" on small businesses and insist that the IRS use its discretion to find "better ways to structure this reporting requirement." In other words, they want regulators to fix one problem among many that all four Senators created by voting for ObamaCare


The only thing that is obvious about this bill is that it is bad.
handfleisch
Voodoocat wrote:
Quote:
Handfleisch is right... The answer is obvious.
It's in the bill because they were desperate to make it 'budget neutral'.


The answer is so obvious that even Democrats are trying to repeal it? The problem is glaring: the 1099 provision is so bad that many Democrats that voted for the bill are trying to get rid of it before it goes into effect!

Remember:

Quote:
In a Monday letter, even Democratic Senators Mark Begich (Alaska), Ben Nelson (Nebraska), Jeanne Shaheen (New Hampshire) and Evan Bayh (Indiana) denounce this new "burden" on small businesses and insist that the IRS use its discretion to find "better ways to structure this reporting requirement." In other words, they want regulators to fix one problem among many that all four Senators created by voting for ObamaCare


The only thing that is obvious about this bill is that it is bad.


You might want to look up the word "fiasco". One small provision that needs some tweaking in a large bill doesn't fit the definition.

You also might want to try some independent thinking and research. If this provision was an evil plot by Democrats, why would they try to revise it now? Even Republicans admit about the provision that "the IRS says [it] will likely be of little value" , so there's nothing to the money-grab charge.

And if it can be so easily fixed, then what is the big deal? You right wingers look really ridiculous, trying to make scandals where there aren't any. Chicken Little must have been a Republican.

About your charge that the whole bill is bad, it so happens that I will be able to get medical insurance for a pre-existing condition thanks to Obama's historic health care reform, the same way I could get it if I were a citizen of any other civilized country. You're telling me there's something wrong with that? Who are you to tell me that? Why are you right wingers working so hard to block me from the simple, basic human need of affordable health care?
deanhills
handfleisch wrote:
Why are you right wingers working so hard to block me from the simple, basic human need of affordable health care?
As far as I can see, not only right wingers are against the Bill, but also some left wingers. Maybe you need to do some research on that statement. Those critical of the Bill want people to have affordable medical care, they just don't think the Bill is going to take care of that, those with some common sense think that it may make things much more complicated than they already are at an enormous expense that citizens just cannot afford at the moment.
Voodoocat
Quote:
"the IRS says [it] will likely be of little value"


So why is it in the Democratically sponsored and backed bill?

Unfortunately, even if the bill is of "little value" it will place a large burden on the business community:

Quote:
Here are some more effects of this new requirement:

Increased paperwork and administrative burden for every additional 1099 form prepared. Small businesses lack an in-house finance department to track this kind of reporting and that is why complying with the tax code is already 66 percent more expensive for a small business than a large business.
Increased costs incurred for mailing any additional 1099 forms and for hiring outside help to ensure that the business complies with the law.
The law seeks to capture non-compliant corporations, but places the burden on the wrong taxpayer (the compliant small business).

http://www.nfib.com/nfib-on-the-move/nfib-on-the-move-item?cmsid=52139

Quote:
The TAS report expresses concern that the provision will have a very broad reach and that the burdens “may turn out to be disproportionate as compared with any resulting improvement in tax compliance.”

http://www.agd.org/IssuesAdvocacy/AdvocacyNews/NationalLegislative/Default.asp?PubID=1&IssID=1176&ArtID=7932

And the list goes on.
handfleisch
Voodoocat wrote:
Quote:
"the IRS says [it] will likely be of little value"


So why is it in the Democratically sponsored and backed bill?


Most likely, a simple clerical error.

Voodoocat wrote:
Quote:
"the IRS says [it] will likely be of little value"


Unfortunately, even if the bill is of "little value" it will place a large burden on the business community:


Wrong. As I already said but you somehow missed, this is already being fixed so that it is not a burden on small businesses. This is just the latest non-scandal invented by the corporate lobbyists, parroted by their shills.

You didn't answer most of my valid questions and just went on to repeat points that have already been debunked. Could you go back and answer them?

Also, Voodoocat, can I ask you exactly where you first learned of this issue? And don't you feel bad that you were misled, and that you have forwarded misleading info?
ocalhoun
handfleisch wrote:
Voodoocat wrote:
Quote:
"the IRS says [it] will likely be of little value"


So why is it in the Democratically sponsored and backed bill?


Most likely, a simple clerical error.

So they're putting sweeping changes into a largely unrelated bill by 'clerical error' now?

Is it too much to ask that the laws that affect our lives not be changed by random error?
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