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Iran tackles hairstyles for men ....





deanhills
Now this has to be a switch. Moving from laws on what women have to wear in public to suggested culturally appropriate hairstyles for men in Iran. The photo below shows an official explaining the suggested haircuts for men, by the Iran's Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance.
Quote:
The introduction of appropriate hairstyles for men is the latest salvo in Iran's annual modesty campaign which peaks every year at summer time and is aimed at combating any deviation from strict Islamic attire.

Since the 1979 revolution that brought Islamists to power in Iran, authorities have regularly detained young people, male and female, for ‘lack of virtue' in their clothing, hair styles and makeup.

Laws in place since the revolution require women to cover from head-to-toe in loose-fitting overcoats hiding their shape and cover their head with a scarf.

The rules are enforced by police and paramilitaries, who castigate women for showing too much hair, wearing makeup or figure hugging clothing.

Source: GlobeandMail
ocalhoun
Ah, the wonderful face of government control.

Let this be a lesson to anyone who wants greater government involvement.
mengshi200
Not surprise! Chinese big culture revolution lasted decade was same as this situation.
Bikerman
I don't think you can generalise from this particular Islamic theocracy to government in general. European countries have much greater 'government involvement' than the US but I don't notice any government hair inspectors doing the rounds.
deanhills
mengshi200 wrote:
Not surprise! Chinese big culture revolution lasted decade was same as this siuation.
Did they also have rules for hairstyles? I knew they had for dress, but was unaware that there were rules for hairstyles.
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:
I don't think you can generalise from this particular Islamic theocracy to government in general. European countries have much greater 'government involvement' than the US but I don't notice any government hair inspectors doing the rounds.

You aren't to that point yet.
Iran's government exercises much more control over its populace than most European nations do, yes?
Bikerman
ocalhoun wrote:
Bikerman wrote:
I don't think you can generalise from this particular Islamic theocracy to government in general. European countries have much greater 'government involvement' than the US but I don't notice any government hair inspectors doing the rounds.

You aren't to that point yet.
Iran's government exercises much more control over its populace than most European nations do, yes?
But you are looking at it as a continuum with Iran at one extreme and presumably an anarchic state at the other, with Europe somewhere along the line and the US less so. I do not see it like that at all. I see it as a set of alternate paths, not one continuum.
So, Iran's government exercises more control in some areas than a typical European government, and probably less control in others.
ocalhoun
Bikerman wrote:

So, Iran's government exercises more control in some areas than a typical European government, and probably less control in others.

Well yes, there are different paths you can take from one side of the continuum to the other, it isn't one-dimensional.

The further you go down any of those paths though, the closer you get to the end result, total control (or total anarchy).
Bikerman
ocalhoun wrote:
Bikerman wrote:

So, Iran's government exercises more control in some areas than a typical European government, and probably less control in others.

Well yes, there are different paths you can take from one side of the continuum to the other, it isn't one-dimensional.

The further you go down any of those paths though, the closer you get to the end result, total control (or total anarchy).

That is still linear logic.
OK - a government exercises TOTAL control over hairstyle. It specifies the style of cut and the colour.
Otherwise it controls absolutely nothing. Is that 'further down the line' than a European government or not?
mengshi200
no rules, no evidence.more smart.

deanhills wrote:
mengshi200 wrote:
Not surprise! Chinese big culture revolution lasted decade was same as this siuation.
Did they also have rules for hairstyles? I knew they had for dress, but was unaware that there were rules for hairstyles.
Afaceinthematrix
Damn. My hairstyle is not featured here. I guess I would have problems there (because I don't do haircuts).

I get told, on a daily basis (usually by random people on the streets) that I look like this guy (although I don't see the resemblance, except for the hair):



I usually then tell these people that Jesus probably didn't exist and if he did, he would not look like that (or me). Too bad Iran isn't a Christian state, then I would just use the excuse that I am trying to look like Jesus...

Quote:
Ah, the wonderful face of government control.

Let this be a lesson to anyone who wants greater government involvement.


Yes. It is terrible. I think I read recently that Indonesia has dress codes now for people wearing tight pants. I always complain about the U.S. and all their damn drug laws, but I am extremely grateful to live in a country where the regulation is still far less than other places.

Quote:
no rules, no evidence.more smart.


What? I do not understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying that there are no official rules but there are some sort of societal expectations? If you are, then all countries have that because people tend to be judgmental. I get it all of the time. This old man recently came up to me and, in a condescending voice (like I was the scum of this planet), said, "Got enough hair on your head?" I looked at him (as he's balding), and said, "Yeah. You want some?" And then people talk about my "crazy red and black beard that is long and how I'm some young, liberal, hooligan with no future, respect, etc." So people are judgmental but you just have to have the "screw them, they're not worth my time" mentality...
paul_indo
I think they should make rules on how big your nose is allowed to be too.
And, of course, a minimum size too.
truespeed
What about facial hair? Moustache or beard or none?
deanhills
truespeed wrote:
What about facial hair? Moustache or beard or none?
Good question. I saw some facial hair in the photos, and some sideburns, but wonder whether a beard such as Ossama Bin Laden's would be allowed? Smile
mengshi200
China has a popular word now: Hidden Rules or Unspoken rule 。This should help you to understand that situation.
Jinx
Literal Fashion Police? Sheesh...

What's Arabic for Double Plus Ungood?
xintianb
Sounds good.if have rules for hairstyles,It looks good like that.more tidier!!!
ocalhoun
xintianb wrote:
Sounds good.if have rules for hairstyles,It looks good like that.more tidier!!!

Okay...
Now I'm scared.

If ordinary people start thinking like this, we're doomed to an Orwellian future.
c'tair
ocalhoun wrote:
Ah, the wonderful face of government control.

Let this be a lesson to anyone who wants greater government involvement.


Government control can also bring much good for the whole of society, but not when the basis of this control is... religion. Hitler was able to create an almost unstoppable superpower out of war-battered Germany through controlling the people. If he chose an economic war (ie. empowering Germany to out-produce all other countries) I think he would've been successful, but he chose traditional warfare instead.
ocalhoun
c'tair wrote:

Government control can also bring much good for the whole of society,

Oh, it often benefits the society... Usually at the expense of individuals.

5 out of 6 people enjoy gang-rape, after all.
Bikerman
ocalhoun wrote:
c'tair wrote:

Government control can also bring much good for the whole of society,

Oh, it often benefits the society... Usually at the expense of individuals.

5 out of 6 people enjoy gang-rape, after all.

Err...says who?
Afaceinthematrix
c'tair wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
Ah, the wonderful face of government control.

Let this be a lesson to anyone who wants greater government involvement.


Government control can also bring much good for the whole of society, but not when the basis of this control is... religion. Hitler was able to create an almost unstoppable superpower out of war-battered Germany through controlling the people. If he chose an economic war (ie. empowering Germany to out-produce all other countries) I think he would've been successful, but he chose traditional warfare instead.


As long as it doesn't take away anyone's personal freedom...

xintianb wrote:
Sounds good.if have rules for hairstyles,It looks good like that.more tidier!!!


Are you serious? That is one of the most terrible things that I have ever heard. Taking people's freedoms so that the society can look "tidier." I look and dress like a dirtbag and I'm proud of it! More so, I am glad that I have the freedom to have long hair, long beard, wear Slayer t-shirts, wear cut off jeans, and chains on my wallet...

Taking away freedoms so we look "tidier" would be terrible! Besides, name one actual advantage to having a society that looks "tidier." I doubt you'll actually be able to come up with one good reason... Hair and clothes are just a personal preference (unless you're in a "professional setting" and even if you are, then that is your preference... you could choose to work construction instead and dress how you want)...

Bikerman wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
c'tair wrote:

Government control can also bring much good for the whole of society,

Oh, it often benefits the society... Usually at the expense of individuals.

5 out of 6 people enjoy gang-rape, after all.

Err...says who?


Well the only people who can "enjoy gang-rape" or not enjoy it are people who have participated in it, right? Someone who has not participated in has no opinion about the enjoyment level, right?

If 5 out of 6 people who participate in it are the criminals, and 1 out of 6 participants is a victim, then most likely 5 out of 6 people enjoy it. They wouldn't do it if they didn't enjoy it, right?

But Ocalhoun's logic may be slightly flawed because I have a feeling that there are way more than 1 victim per 5 criminals because there are probably a small group of people ruthless enough to engage in it and so they keep doing it to different people bringing the victim level about even with the criminal level...
Bikerman
My own experience tells me that a small minority of males would even consider it and of those most would probably feel guilt rather than any pleasure - in fact I'm willing to bet that most wouldn't even achieve the necessary state (if I can put it that way, without wishing to elaborate further).
Rape is ultimately not about sex - it is about control.
Afaceinthematrix
Well I beg to differ. Here is a link to a Harvard study:
http://www.innovations.harvard.edu/cache/documents/1348/134851.pdf

In the PDF file, it says that the majority of men who commit rape but are not prosecuted are repeat rapists. It also says that the average repeat rapist commits 5.8 rapes. The only downfall to that study is that it is a relatively small pool of people studied. However, I think that it was enough, in this case, to see a trend.

The article also says that the majority of rapists are never brought to justice. I've known that statistic for quite some time and there are many explanations to it, but they aren't necessary to rehash here. What is important is to see that if the majority of rapists are never brought to justice, and the majority of rapists never brought to justice a repeat rapists, then logically many rapists are repeat rapists.

I doubt that repeat rapists would feel the huge amount of remorse that you're referring to because if they did, they would not rape again.

P.S. You said that most would not be able to "get off" because rape isn't about sex - it is about control. What does that have to do with anything? Ocalhoun's point was that many people enjoy gang rape. He didn't say that many people come to the point of orgasm during gang rape. He just said they enjoy it. Why can't they enjoy the control?

And I do realize that this article is referring to a different type of rape (not gang rape), but it is the best thing I found and I think much of it will translate over into gang rape.
ocalhoun
Afaceinthematrix wrote:

And I do realize that this article is referring to a different type of rape (not gang rape), but it is the best thing I found and I think much of it will translate over into gang rape.

^.^
Always funny when people take something so seriously that was meant mainly as a joke.


My point -- besides the humor of it -- was to refute what I quoted, and say that what benefits a society may very well do horrible things to individuals.

If Hitler had won WWII, his actions would have benefited his society as a whole (at least by the measures he would be likely to use). That does NOT justify the horrible things he did to relatively small groups of people within the society... or people outside that society for that matter.

Sacrificing the few to benefit the many can very easily be taken too far -- It's best to avoid going down that road all together.
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