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the universe has it's end or are we not genius enough





baboosaa
every thing in this world has it's end. If it starts then it must end and so does our universe. Every single second we pass it's expanding and one day will come in far future that everything will expand even us.
[\b]
the whole universe is made up of matters and matters are made up of elements; these elements are made up of atoms and atoms are made up of proton,electron and neutron. As the universe keeps on expanding first of all matter becomes apart and they start to move away from each other and then after certain limit and time of expansion starts the destruction i.e. atoms starts to expand. This is really a sad as all the things in universe will start to destroy.
But we happen to be the most capable living thing on earth to save earth with brain capacity of 1850 cc and so many historical records of extraordinary successes then won't our siblings or our type will be able to stop this? Who knows what can happen?
With rapidly developing computer tech and emergence of new master minds it's hard to predict what can happen.
[b]In to days world anything can happen,miracle or disaster, if you believe or are strong enough to believe.
Bikerman
baboosaa wrote:
every thing in this world has it's end. If it starts then it must end
Why? Which law of logic or physics tells you that?
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the whole universe is made up of matters and matters are made up of elements; these elements are made up of atoms and atoms are made up of proton,electron and neutron. As the universe keeps on expanding first of all matter becomes apart and they start to move away from each other and then after certain limit and time of expansion starts the destruction i.e. atoms starts to expand
Ahh...the 'big rip' theory.

* There is also a Science Fiction story on this theme in the excellent Brian Aldiss novel 'Galaxies like Grains of Sand'
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This is really a sad as all the things in universe will start to destroy.
But we happen to be the most capable living thing on earth to save earth with brain capacity of 1850 cc and so many historical records of extraordinary successes then won't our siblings or our type will be able to stop this? Who knows what can happen?
Err...siblings? I think you probably mean descendants. Cranial capacity in humans varies - 1850cc is right at the top end of the scale. Normally the range is specified as 1250cc-1850cc
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With rapidly developing computer tech and emergence of new master minds it's hard to predict what can happen. In to days world anything can happen,miracle or disaster, if you believe or are strong enough to believe.
I don't think it has much to do with belief. Disasters tend to happen whether or not you believe in them
baboosaa
Thank u for Ur comment.
Newton said "If there is action then there is reaction." In the same way if something in earth goes up it must come down. It never means the even though the lifespan of tree is unlimited it will grow to the top of the sky. I t must stop. And no matter how big is universe it is bound by the same rule.As you know every one of us live as if we are never going to die and die as if we have never lived this is not a surprise to me that you believe the universe would be same for ever has only start but not ending.
They say that when scientist after study of universe in the light of the theory of relativity told Einstien that universe is expanding then he told them "well your math is right but your theory is wrong."
And i think that your son or daughter is your siblings and your son's daughter or son also siblings. If in course of time evolution sky rockets and whole new species like human may pop up then last generation of human could possibly be called descendant but it still remains siblings of parent generation. And we all believe in some thing. I am not saying even though you believe in god all day and when you have to cross a road then you still look both ways but i m saying about the that forces us to believe our self and our capabilities not just what others say...
Bikerman
baboosaa wrote:
Thank u for Ur comment.
Newton said "If there is action then there is reaction." In the same way if something in earth goes up it must come down.
No, that is simply wrong. Throw something hard enough and it won't come down at all.
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It never means the even though the lifespan of tree is unlimited it will grow to the top of the sky. It must stop.
The tree has several constraing factors which do not apply to the universe as a whole.
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And no matter how big is universe it is bound by the same rule
Why?
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As you know every one of us live as if we are never going to die and die as if we have never lived this is not a surprise to me that you believe the universe would be same for ever has only start but not ending.
Did I say I believed that? I don't think so. I said that it is not logically ruled out.
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They say that when scientist after study of universe in the light of the theory of relativity told Einstien that universe is expanding then he told them "well your math is right but your theory is wrong."
No, that is mixed up. Einstein himself didn't like the expansing universe so he stuck a constant into his equation - called the cosmological constant - in order to keep it uniform. Later it turned out that the theory predicted expansion anyway.
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And i think that your son or daughter is your siblings
No, they are your children. Siblings are bothers and sisters.
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and your son's daughter or son also siblings.
Nope..see above. These would be grandchildren (or descendants).
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If in course of time evolution sky rockets and whole new species like human may pop up then last generation of human could possibly be called descendant but it still remains siblings of parent generation.
Nope...see above - these would be descendants.....trust me on this...
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And we all believe in some thing. I am not saying even though you believe in god all day and when you have to cross a road then you still look both ways but i m saying about the that forces us to believe our self and our capabilities not just what others say...
It depends what you mean by 'believe'. If you mean 'despite evidence' then no, we don't have to believe anything.
HalfBloodPrince
You do realize that the sun's red dwarf cycle is going to destroy all life on Earth (if it hasn't been destroyed by then) within the next ~5 billion years. Considering that a single asteroid impact could more or less wipe out any and all technological and scientific progress we've made in the last couple thousand years (which is really almost all the progress there is, farming and beyond), we don't need to worry about what's going to happen to the Universe in hundreds of quintillions of years...
baboosaa
if u believe in your capacity then you won't let that disaster to occur. Even though a tree may not be a universe it can symbolize a universe. Both of them have various similarities. And even though Einstien kept cosmological constant it was just a name to it to satisfy his desire. it simply doesnt make other variables constant. And a long journey begins with a short first step so i think we must worry about its expansion.
ocalhoun
baboosaa wrote:
so i think we must worry about its expansion.

No need to worry about it.
I guarantee that a more immediate problem will relieve you of facing that crisis.
_AVG_
Ah ... the classic clash of philosophy and science. If you have such rigid philosophical beliefs then you shouldn't let them interfere with physics ... I've learned that the hard way.

Remember what Einstein did ... he believed in something (that the universe was infinite and static) so he added a Cosmological Constant to his equations which he later on described as "his biggest blunder".

Now, as far as the fate of the Universe is concerned, it all depends on determining the current density of the Universe. According to this simplistic theory, it is only if the density of the Universe is less than a Critical Density that it will have an end i.e. we would say the Universe is CLOSED. If its density exceeds the Critical Density, the Universe would be OPEN i.e. we would experience expansion forever. If the density is exactly the Critical Density, the Universe will be FLAT i.e. it will expand forever but asymptotically.

Well, this is indeed a very simple theory but it's the one that's taught in High Schools. If you bring in the problems (such as measuring the mass of the universe, the density of the universe and the critical density) as well as the presence of Dark Energy and Dark Matter etc. then it's a bit more realistic but much more complex. I don't understand why but that's the case with most things.
HalfBloodPrince
Again: the earth, our sun, any potential planets we may inhabit in the coming ages, our solar system, and our galaxy will cease to exist long before the Universe ends.
baboosaa
philosophy gave birth to science and i hope it's effect will be eternal. The other problems like destruction of sun our solar sys would be solved more easily but how could that massive problem be solve is in time's hand.
Bikerman
_AVG_ wrote:
If the density is exactly the Critical Density, the Universe will be FLAT i.e. it will expand forever but asymptotically.
There is also the 'rip' theory..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip
which is an expansion on the 'continue expanding' possibility...
_AVG_
Bikerman wrote:
_AVG_ wrote:
If the density is exactly the Critical Density, the Universe will be FLAT i.e. it will expand forever but asymptotically.
There is also the 'rip' theory..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip
which is an expansion on the 'continue expanding' possibility...


Wow. That's fascinating Razz

I went through the Wikipedia page and in fact encountered a couple of questions in my own head:
1.) What is the origin of this mathematical model and does it have any associated empirical results?
2.) Even if subatomic particles are in fact ripped apart due to expansion, does that mean the universe will COMPLETELY end? It would certainly end as we see it but ... BUT ... as far String Theory, M-Theory, etc. are concerned (which I confess I don't have a complete understanding of as yet) would that in fact isolate the so called "strings"? Another point is that it would eventually lead to a shower of mesons, wouldn't it, due to quark confinement?

Again, very interesting, isn't it?
Bikerman
I think the idea surfaced some time ago - what happens if the speed of expansion was such that it stretches opposite ends of an atom away from each other at velocity v : particularly as v approaches c.
The 'prediction' rests on an exponential increase in dark energy - which is pretty much what you get with spherical expansion - a nice r cubed. Any exponentially rising quantity must eventually rise to effective infinity and a feature of such rises is the rapid acceleration towards the end. If the expansion of space is indeed caused by the energy of empty space then that is increasing on the cube.....
metalfreek
I think there is some good prediction on fate of the universe. SW hawkings explained the fate of the universe in his book "A brief History of time." There are two possibilities
1. The universe will continue to expand at this rate
2. The universe will expand for some time and then it will shrink and come to a point and its called big crunch. (opposite of big bang) These another big bang is possible.
Bikerman
No, Hawing's book is 20 years out of date (more, really).
Hawking was working on faulty data - since the book was written we have learned that expansion is accelerating - Hawking, like most people, assumed it would be slowing down.
metalfreek
Bikerman wrote:
No, Hawing's book is 20 years out of date (more, really).
Hawking was working on faulty data - since the book was written we have learned that expansion is accelerating - Hawking, like most people, assumed it would be slowing down.


Thanks for the update Bikerman. I appreciate it. BTW can I get a site where I can read about the latest theory on expanding universe?
LittleBlackKitten
I believe in the string theory, personally. Only, I like to see it more as a loaf of bread theory, and the devine breadmaker in a bread shop. SORT OF like the MIB marble theory, only on a much much broader scale.

And, touching on the universe thing, think of it like this. Take some soft whipped eggs, and put it in a mug. Flip it over onto the counter with use of some cardboard to keep the eggs in place. Now, take away both. At first, the eggs are going to flow out slowly, collapsing in on it's own weight across the counter/floor/surface you let them go on. Then, as the outward movement is shoved outward by the eggs themselves and them wanting to flow out at the same rate, the outer rim is going to push out faster than the center, until the eggs are at a sort of "critical mass" and cease moving altogether, and just sits there, because it doesn't have the speed, strength, force, or momentum to keep moving BECAUSE of it's own weight. The eggs molecular structure will remain the same, and they will be nonetheless moving exactly as they had been all along, even IF the egg mass is stationary.

This being said, I believe once the universe spreads out enough, it will just stop expanding, while the rest of the universe, planets, stars, moons, ect, are none the different.
Bikerman
I can't see how that analogy is useful. To be more accurate the eggs would have to flow slowly at first and then faster. That, of course, is not what would happen, but that IS what is happening to the universe - expansion is speeding up.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=expanding-universe-slows-then-speeds

Now, if this is correct it can be explained by reference to 'dark energy' or 'quintessence'. That is, 'empty' space contains a repulsive/expansive force - an anti-gravity if you like. That causes it to 'stretch'.
On earth this expansion is more than matched by gravity pulling everything together, so we don't see it. Even the gravity of nearby galaxies (the local group) is sufficient to swamp the expansive force. When you get into very deep intergalactic space, however, gravity is close to zero, and the expansive force takes over - space stretches. It follows that this will speed up over time, because the amount of empty space also increases.
LittleBlackKitten
I'm trying to say it will begin to slow down, then stop altogether. And actually, I did say they start slow then speed up....thanks for reading my last post oh so clearly......
Bikerman
LittleBlackKitten wrote:
I'm trying to say it will begin to slow down, then stop altogether. And actually, I did say they start slow then speed up....thanks for reading my last post oh so clearly......

I did read it but I don't think you read mine.
a) It won't slow down at all, read my posting again
b) Your analysis of your experiment is wrong. It cannot speed up since the potential energy is greatest at the start and decreases with time. The only way the eggs could start slow and speed up is with some change in the composition of the mixture. That is why I said 'to be more accurate...'.
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Then, as the outward movement is shoved outward by the eggs themselves
That makes no sense either semantically or logically. You don't 'shove' movement. Movement is produced by the shove.
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the outer rim is going to push out faster than the center
The centre is not going to move at all if the distribution is even...
LittleBlackKitten
I said soft whipped eggs. Try it; you'll see I'm right.
Starrfoxx
I'm not worried about the end of the universe. Chances are I'll be gone before then. Shocked
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