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Do subliminal messages really work?





HalfBloodPrince
So I found a couple of programs that basically flash phrases on your screen every few milliseconds and apparently burn the statements into your subconscious. Of course most of them were for Windows and a few for OS X so I ran a Windows one under WINE. Basically you select the "categories" you want to enable, and statements relating to it blaze across the screen so quickly and faintly you stop noticing it after a minute or two. Things like "You're young as ever!", "Life is good!", "Do it now!", "I don't need to smoke!", "Talk to her today!", etc.

Do these things work? If they really burn the concepts into your mind this would be very helpful for tests and exams too...
Bikerman
HalfBloodPrince wrote:
So I found a couple of programs that basically flash phrases on your screen every few milliseconds and apparently burn the statements into your subconscious. Of course most of them were for Windows and a few for OS X so I ran a Windows one under WINE. Basically you select the "categories" you want to enable, and statements relating to it blaze across the screen so quickly and faintly you stop noticing it after a minute or two. Things like "You're young as ever!", "Life is good!", "Do it now!", "I don't need to smoke!", "Talk to her today!", etc.

Do these things work? If they really burn the concepts into your mind this would be very helpful for tests and exams too...


They have some effect, yes.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070308121938.htm
Magicman
Subliminal images have some effect apparently but movies and TV are at too slow a frame rate for images to be completely subliminal. Most people will consciously process any single frame flash in that media.
Bikerman
Are you sure?
PAL is 60fps - well beyond vision persistence - you could flash images on alternate frames (PAL uses 2 frame per picture giving 25 frames per second in total).
Afaceinthematrix
Well, in many places, subliminal messages are slowed down some to the point to where they're not really subliminal. The reason is that if they are slow enough, as suggested above, then they're legally not subliminal messages. However, they may have some of the effect of subliminal messages.

However, it is not really subliminal messaging that is the complete legal problem - it is subliminal advertising. I am not sure what the laws are in the U.K., but after doing a quick google search, I see that subliminal advertising is illegal there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6427951.stm

Here is a Youtube video about subliminal advertising in the U.K.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AOH06foqmU

It may be foolish to post that Youtube video because I have not actually watched it myself (so I feel bad posting it), but it came up when I did my quick google search and thought that someone else may want to watch it (I have no desire to...)
ProfessorY91
Interesting articles/studies. I'm going to go down a completely different track and suggest that subliminal messaging is merely training your subconscious thoughts to influence your conscious decisions. In this regard, exposing yourself to subliminal messaging can be viewed as conditioning the mind to make certain decisions over others. I believe it is comparable to listening to taped lectures or music as you fall asleep, and while sleeping, so that it is better ingrained in your mind when you wake up.
deanhills
The act of actually setting those message up to run on your computer so that you can be exposed to positive messages, must already make that person receptive and open to the suggestions that have been selected?

I can see that that could have a positive affect, but perhaps something like "I am a millionnaire" would have to be reinforced as well with analysing what it would take to be a millionnaire, and emulating the behaviour of a millionnaire. For example, choose a role model, and make a study of exactly what he did in order to be a millionnaire, so in addition to the suggestions, the person would "think" millionnaire as well.
Bikerman
ProfessorY91 wrote:
Interesting articles/studies. I'm going to go down a completely different track and suggest that subliminal messaging is merely training your subconscious thoughts to influence your conscious decisions. In this regard, exposing yourself to subliminal messaging can be viewed as conditioning the mind to make certain decisions over others. I believe it is comparable to listening to taped lectures or music as you fall asleep, and while sleeping, so that it is better ingrained in your mind when you wake up.
But that cannot be correct since a major feature of sumliminal advertising is the lack of conscious perception. We experience things which we are not conscious of every nano-secod. - events either too fast for us to recognise, too weird for the conscious mind to register, too informationally 'loaded/dense' to be able o process more than a simplification ... etc.
In that environment how could you possibly 'train' the subconscious using some flick-screens? Surely those would be swamped by everything else we are suibliminal of.....
Ghost900
I have heard that at one point movie theaters would add some subliminal images to the movies to get people to buy popcorn or Pepsi from them, not sure if it is true or not.

If it is true then they must work to some degree. Our mind seems to process things that we not even believe we have seen.
Bikerman
I heard that people used to wear garlick to ward against vampires. If that is true then it must work to some degree...
(see the problem there?)
ProfessorY91
Bikerman wrote:
But that cannot be correct since a major feature of sumliminal advertising is the lack of conscious perception. We experience things which we are not conscious of every nano-secod. - events either too fast for us to recognise, too weird for the conscious mind to register, too informationally 'loaded/dense' to be able o process more than a simplification ... etc. In that environment how could you possibly 'train' the subconscious using some flick-screens? Surely those would be swamped by everything else we are suibliminal of.....


I concede the point, however, I still think we should take into contention the number of exposures, the significance of different exposures, and how well each subliminal event is stored in our memory. I would argue that every nano-second's subliminal exposure does indeed affect us to a certain degree. The length of exposure and the content (whether or not we are concerned with a particular issue), control whether or not the mind is 'trained'. I would say that repeated exposure or subliminal events that are borderline conscious still predispose us towards particular decisions.
Bikerman
Yes, I wouldn't wish to argue that point - I think it is entirely possible that repeated exposure to a particular type of subliminal message could 'sway' your conscious decision making as well as your unconscious...
apple
Practice makes permanent. I think yes.
Aredon
Now if we can just find a way to use it for some sort of learning! Perhaps we could learn like the matrix, but with a screen instead of a painful plug.

On second thought, maybe we shouldn't screw around with how the brain works. We have a tendency to break stuff.
Shadowninja7194
Of course this really works. Its like studying for a test...the more you read, see, hear something. The more chance you are going to remember that phrase or quote.

Just think, this is how Obama got elected XD
Nameless
NyenAlso, give me money.oso
deanhills
I was thinking about all the violence in the movies, even in trailers of movies and wonder how much that can be responsible as subliminal messages, especially for people who may be more prone to violence than others. With so much violence on a regular basis, it almost looks "normal" after a while.
Josso
See: political speeches
Bikerman
deanhills wrote:
I was thinking about all the violence in the movies, even in trailers of movies and wonder how much that can be responsible as subliminal messages, especially for people who may be more prone to violence than others. With so much violence on a regular basis, it almost looks "normal" after a while.
By definition is it not subliminal and mixing the two concepts up is not particularly useful. Subliminal means 'below the threshold of conscious perception'.
You are talking about an entirely different effect known as de-sensitising.
pll
I think that they have some effects because in the 60 or the 70s here in my country there was some of them during movies.

The human eye (and the brain) can see something like 24 images / second. During these years they were passing some ads/images (I think the company '' pepsi '' did some, as I heard) at a rate that the eyes could not see.

I heard a story that in a Cinema they were making pop corns and pepsi ads during a movie (but the eye could not see it because they were passing them too fast, but repeatedly) and that by doing this they were boosting popcorns and pepsi sales.

Now it's not legal to do such a thing, but it once was... and it seemed to work, so I think that yes, subliminal messages can have some effects on the brain. Idea
iman
oh yes, that works. Its the tool of many TV advertisements.
Bikerman
iman wrote:
oh yes, that works. Its the tool of many TV advertisements.

Really? So which ones would that be then?
Arty
Not only do they work, but they are used everywhere.

It's just not the same way as they are portrayed on TV.
paul_indo
Arty wrote:
Not only do they work, but they are used everywhere.

It's just not the same way as they are portrayed on TV.


This sounds interesting.

Can you give any links which give information about this?
Bikerman
Subliminal advertising is illegal in many countries. Wiki has a (small) list of cases where it has been used, or it is suspected it was used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_stimuli
Aredon
I could be wrong but I believe they used subliminal flashes to get the BTK strangler to call the police a while back. I seem to recall when they were originally after him they tried subliminal frames. I'll see if i can find the old video.

Edit:
Quote:
In 1978, Wichita, Kansas TV station KAKE-TV received special permission from the police to place a subliminal message in a report on the BTK Killer (Bind, Torture, Kill) in an effort to get him to turn himself in. The subliminal message included the text "Now call the chief", as well as a pair of glasses. The glasses were included because when BTK murdered Nancy Fox, there was a pair of glasses lying upside down on her dresser; police felt that seeing the glasses might stir up remorse in the killer. The attempt was unsuccessful, and police reported no increased volume of calls afterward.[30]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_stimuli

Can't find the video clip, but I remember it being on the news.
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
Subliminal advertising is illegal in many countries. Wiki has a (small) list of cases where it has been used, or it is suspected it was used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_stimuli
Thanks for the link, it provided very interesting reading. I thought all advertising contained subliminal stimuli, so I would imagine that the subliminal advertising that is illegal depends on case to case? They would only be illegal if people complained, and it is then prosecuted in the courts? So in essence one can get OK subliminal stimuli and not so OK subliminal stimuli?
Bikerman
Err..no.
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
Err..no.
I thought this comment by Indi in the Religion Forum would be quite relevant here:
Quote:
Uh huh? And what exactly are you basing that judgment on?
Smile
Bikerman
On the fact that film and tv program/advert making is a collaborative and highly professional business. On the fact that it is illegal to use subliminal adverts. On the fact that most professionals perfer to be legal in their work. On the fact that more often than not any output will be archived and available for years, so any chance of not being noticed is slim to non. On the fact that fairly extensive studies have been and are being done by students and professionals all over the place and yet we don't see many, if any, examples of such advertising - and it would be pretty easy to spot with modern digital equipment.
On that, and the basis that since the efficacy is questionable, why would anyone risk going to jail for it?
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
On the fact that film and tv program/advert making is a collaborative and highly professional business. On the fact that it is illegal to use subliminal adverts. On the fact that most professionals perfer to be legal in their work. On the fact that more often than not any output will be archived and available for years, so any chance of not being noticed is slim to non. On the fact that fairly extensive studies have been and are being done by students and professionals all over the place and yet we don't see many, if any, examples of such advertising - and it would be pretty easy to spot with modern digital equipment.
On that, and the basis that since the efficacy is questionable, why would anyone risk going to jail for it?
OK, but would one not be able to class all advertising under subliminal? Like for example crackle and the pop of ice and tinkle for Coke. Or someone relishing a piece of chocolate or ice creame. Those "subliminal" messages can really be very bad for obese people who are trying to loose weight. Or people who need to stop drinking coffee. So perhaps for the average person may not have an effect, but for certain groups of people may be harmful? Maybe all advertising should then be illegal as they all contain a measure of subliminal messages?
Bikerman
You still don't seem to have understood what subliminal means - I've explained it in detail already, and it isn't cracking ice or people enjoying a snack...
deanhills
Advertising works on subliminal messages. Nothing wrong with my understanding of what it means. "All stimuli below the threshold of sensory perception or outside the range of conscious awareness." They use it in a positive way as well with affirmations, etc. in psychology or people who want to get rid of addictions. Advertising is also a form of affirmation messages, and a lot of that is subliminal.

This article contains a number of examples of subliminal messages:
http://www.eruptingmind.com/what-are-subliminal-messages/
Bikerman
So if you understand what it means then why did you say
Quote:
Like for example crackle and the pop of ice and tinkle for Coke. Or someone relishing a piece of chocolate or ice creame.

Neither of those are subliminal....
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
So if you understand what it means then why did you say
Quote:
Like for example crackle and the pop of ice and tinkle for Coke. Or someone relishing a piece of chocolate or ice creame.

Neither of those are subliminal....
You mean the Coke company did not do research into that ad and then thought that would get people to buy their product? The message does not work subconsciously? Think we differ on how we see subliminal messages. Messages are not only visual, but can be stimuli.
Bikerman
<self censored>
Can you hear the ice crack? Can you see the person enjoying the snack?
If yes then not subliminal.
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
<self censored>
Can you hear the ice crack? Can you see the person enjoying the snack?
If yes then not subliminal.
I thought that would be stimuli? If repeated after a while, one conjures up the image of thirst, coke, cool, quenching. If the person enjoying the snack is repeated, such as a Mac Hamburger, if repeated, one would only need one flash of that person eating, to savour the whole experience of eating a Mac.

On the ads I see here, they are doing exactly that. Have a longer advertisement, then a "flash" one of about two or three seconds on a repeated basis.
Bikerman
I can't make it any easier to understand - my dog could understand this I'm sure. If the signal is perceptible then it isn't subliminal. What part of that is giving you a problem?
HalfBloodPrince
Bikerman wrote:
I can't make it any easier to understand - my dog could understand this I'm sure. If the signal is perceptible then it isn't subliminal. What part of that is giving you a problem?

I think what he means is if you don't realize that you can plainly perceive it then that makes it subliminal (not that I agree, that's what he means I think).
Bikerman
I'm just saying what the word subliminal actually means and what subliminal advertising actually is. He might believe the moon is made of cheese and the Pope is a pelican for all I know...
I'll repeat it for the third time - subliminal advertising uses visual or audible stimuli that are below the threshold of perception - ie they cannot be consciously perceived by the observer.
What Dean is talking about is something else entirely and nothing to do with subliminal advertising. Dean is describing 'normal' advertising practice - suggestion, repetition, association, which are all conscious responses to perceived stimuli - a completely different thing. I have explained this already, but Dean obviously prefers his own definitions to the correct ones....and then he trots-off into some completely irrelevant sarcastic remark about Coke....
Insanity
They probably work to at least some extent. This extent is very variable though.
Bikerman
Insanity wrote:
They probably work to at least some extent. This extent is very variable though.
And what do you base that on?
deanhills
Bikerman wrote:
....and then he trots-off into some completely irrelevant sarcastic remark about Coke....
No, I was not being sarcastic. I was being perfectly serious.

Bikerman wrote:
I can't make it any easier to understand - my dog could understand this I'm sure. If the signal is perceptible then it isn't subliminal. What part of that is giving you a problem?
We are blessed with more than one sensory ability. We can also hear .... on a subliminal level. Think about it out of the box, maybe you will get there. This is a definition of what subliminal means:
Quote:
Subliminal messaging is the use of either words, images or sounds which are embedded into a form of media. Visual subliminal messages are flashed faster than the eye can see, and sound based subliminal messages are played at a frequency beyond the range of human hearing, and are commonly available in cd or mp3 format. You will not hear or see these subliminal messages, but they will still be processed by your unconscious mind.
Bikerman
Which is exactly what I said and exactly what you didn't say.
It is not perceptible - you cannot hear or see the message. So I repeat, if you can hear the ice or see the snack being eaten IT IS NOT SUBLIMINAL. Get it?
PS - if you read my postings you will see that I included audible as well as visual....
There is a difference between thinking out of the box and being an idiot....
LittleBlackKitten
Yes, I would argue, they do indeed work. Just look at the progression difference between, say, people who listen to christian music from 1960 to today, and those who listen/listened to rock/metal/pop from 1960 to today. The first hasn't really changed much, yet the second has gone from puffy pants and poodle skirts to black everything and devil horns...
deanhills
LittleBlackKitten wrote:
Yes, I would argue, they do indeed work. Just look at the progression difference between, say, people who listen to christian music from 1960 to today, and those who listen/listened to rock/metal/pop from 1960 to today. The first hasn't really changed much, yet the second has gone from puffy pants and poodle skirts to black everything and devil horns...
I would have thought that the preference for any specific music would be a manifestation of the character and personal likes and dislikes of a person rather than the other way round. Music may have a subtle influence, however, it is usually who we are that make us like different kinds of music.

But yes, thinking about it, maybe you do have a point, if one listens to certain music repeatedly, whether one is aware of the music or not, perhaps the tone of the music as well as words could work through to our subconscious. Quite a number of taxis and buses in the UAE for example play Muslim Prayers on tape. I was wondering whether even with not knowing the words, that some of the tone could filter through to the subconscious and have an effect that one is not really aware off.
soljarag
the only way for them to fully work, is if you do not know they are working....

If you knew they were working, then they would not be subliminal messages

You maybe going through your day and hear hundreds of subliminal messages... but you have no idea its going on....

this post may even have a subliminal message in it!
raaeft1
I have been using subliminal software off and on.Sometimes, it works and sometimes it does not.
It has been my personal experience that one must use such software for some time and then stop using it for a few months. And then again repeat the cycle. Then it is more effective.
sonicdruid
The answer is; why would subliminal advertising be band if it was not effective.I can tell you that magazines are filled with subliminal advertising, Disney movies are loaded with sexual subliminal s.
For your information check out this link http://subliminalmanipulation.blogspot.com/. to me this confirms that subliminal s work in a extremely powerful way, other wise they wouldn't go to all this effort. Idea
Bikerman
sonicdruid wrote:
The answer is; why would subliminal advertising be band if it was not effective.I can tell you that magazines are filled with subliminal advertising, Disney movies are loaded with sexual subliminal s.
For your information check out this link http://subliminalmanipulation.blogspot.com/. to me this confirms that subliminal s work in a extremely powerful way, other wise they wouldn't go to all this effort. Idea

I think there is still some confusion here about what exactly subiminal advertising is. Magazines cannot carry subliminal advertising because it isn't possible in printed format. Subliminal advertising involves inserting frames into moving images, or audio, that are beneath the threashold of perception - ie you are not conscious of having 'seen' or 'heard' the frames and would swear, if asked, that you hadn't. Even though you do not consciously 'register' the frames, there is considerable evidence that they DO have an effect on you, but the evidence also points to the fact that the effect is temporary and has little or no long-term influence on behaviour.

Neither do Disney films contain subliminal adverts. What I think you are talking about is something different - suggestion.
PEGGIE
i am replying to HalfBloodprince on his question regarding Subliminal Messages, whether they really work. I am not an Expert, but one of his Statements, i believe is wrong. he said that certain Statements flash on a screen, he said, ''I dON'T NEED TO SMOKE"as an example of a Statementn that may flash on a screen. i don't believe a Good Sublminal company would EVER use that Staement. From what i understand, Your SubConcsciousn mind does NOT pick up on NEGATIVE words, so a Statement, such as "I DON'T need to smoke"Would actually be picked up as "I NEED to smoke, or the same could be said for the Statement "I'm NOT going to Overeat, the Subconscious mind interpretrs that as "I AM going to Overeat." I learned that a long time ago in a class om learning Self Hypnosis. You learn to do AFFIRMATIONS , that are positive Statements that yiu say to yourself, or write down, or even jjust think tko yourself, your Subconscious mind does NOt pick up on NEGATIVE Words, so i would think the same logic would apply to Subliminal Messages. i know they are different from Self hypnosis, but i beleive there are similarities,l thank you, Peggy
blessflow
Has anyone used subliminal360 by Inspire3?

I am interested in using that software.

Was interested if anyone owned the software
and was willing to share or do a group buy.
spinout
Hm, subliminal messages not working in the printed form?
I do believe it works fine in the printed form.

usually superman uses clumsy karate...

get the message Smile
monyms
for more information about subliminal messages and success go to http://www.monyms.ir
Very Happy Very Happy
BigGeek
Bikerman wrote:
sonicdruid wrote:
The answer is; why would subliminal advertising be band if it was not effective.I can tell you that magazines are filled with subliminal advertising, Disney movies are loaded with sexual subliminal s.
For your information check out this link http://subliminalmanipulation.blogspot.com/. to me this confirms that subliminal s work in a extremely powerful way, other wise they wouldn't go to all this effort. Idea

I think there is still some confusion here about what exactly subiminal advertising is. Magazines cannot carry subliminal advertising because it isn't possible in printed format. Subliminal advertising involves inserting frames into moving images, or audio, that are beneath the threashold of perception - ie you are not conscious of having 'seen' or 'heard' the frames and would swear, if asked, that you hadn't. Even though you do not consciously 'register' the frames, there is considerable evidence that they DO have an effect on you, but the evidence also points to the fact that the effect is temporary and has little or no long-term influence on behaviour.

Neither do Disney films contain subliminal adverts. What I think you are talking about is something different - suggestion.


You are correct in a strict definition of subliminal and that the hidden words in advertising are suggestions rather than subliminal messages. The one thing that I was wondering after reading that blogspot page was - WOW was that a subliminal messages? OR a Subliminal Suggesting. Reason I asked myself that question is because I had that exact poster of Farrah Fawcett on my wall for three years when I was in High School and never once saw where it said "Sex" in her hair - I was not conscious or aware of it! Just now reading that blog page having it pointed out to me was shocking - WOW I never saw that before!

So what I think they are saying is that if you look at a picture and do not consciously see something - then it would be considered subliminal! Although it no longer becomes subliminal after you have it pointed out and can consciously see it! Not sure if that is a correct use of subliminal - but hey I spent my entire life unconscious of the "Sex" message in that poster! Now that I see it I can't help but ask myself if the author was right about that message in the poster as to why it was so damn popular in the 70's - Honestly - almost every guy I knew had that poster of Farrah Fawcett!

Makes me wonder if Christy Brinkley would have been more popular if Sports Illustrated had airbrushed in unnoticeable sex messages in their photos of her in bikinis back in the 70's?

Just a thought? Cause she was much hotter than Farrah and her posters were no where near as popular!!
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