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Orson Scott Card





GW_Addict
Wow - no mention of Orson Scott Card anywhere on this list. Thats amazing. I have an entire shelf dedicated to Card and nobody else. By far the best series written by Card is the "Enders" series, including the parallel "Bean" series. These books are riveting and thought-inspiring.

If you have never read a book by Orson Scott Card, pick up a copy of 'Enders Game' and read it. That will clinch it for you. :)
mirzapirza
Well actually.. http://www.frihost.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3471&highlight=card Razz

Yeah, Ender's game was a fun read..
GW_Addict
AHA! Wonder how I missed that.....

Thanks!
rip8fan1
A few notes about Orson Scott Card:

Ender's Game celebrates 20 Years, in 2005!!

Ender's Game is 'STILL' slated to be a movie!!

I went to an Orson Scott Card Signing, and he has one of the strangest autographs of anybody that I have autographs for!!!

Don't forget his many other books - I like the Alvin Maker series also!
lycadia
I really prefered Ender's Shadow to Ender's Game. I think part of it is that I just love Bean more than Ender. I'm such a chick like that. If I empathize with a character, it improves my whole opinion of the story. Besides, I think his exploration of Bean's psyche and background might have been a little deeper than he gave to Ender in Ender's Game. Both are wonderful though and retelling the same time period from two perspectives was wonderful and no doubt required great skill. Still, like many others have mentioned, I don't really like Mr. Card or his beliefs and politics. I've also been told by people who have met him that he can be rude and high handed toward his fans which I find particularly lamentable in a fan-intensive and to some extent fan-driven genre like Sci Fi.

I've read parts of the second and third books after Ender's Game, but found them a bit dry and detached. I still intend to finish them at some point though.

Please tell me, when you refer to the Bean series, do you mean there are sequels to Ender's Shadow? If so, what are the titles? I don't know if I've heard of them and I'd be wildly interested in them!

Thank you!
rip8fan1
Ender Wiggin series contains:
1. Ender's Game
2. Speaker for the Dead
3. Xenocide
4. Children of the Mind


Also don't forget about the 'Homecoming' series of five books.

Check out more about OSC at:

http://www.hatrack.com/
lycadia
rip8fan1 wrote:


Check out more about OSC at:

http://www.hatrack.com/


Thank you So much for that link! I hadn't realized there was a sequel to Ender's Shadow available. That's going on my christmas list posthaste!
LeviticusMky
Orson Scott Card was one of my first real encounters with GOOD Sci-Fi.

He's what led me to writers like Frank Herbert and even Tolkein.

I got into him directly off the Hitchhiker's guide, which was a bit of a well needed shock.
mike1reynolds
I read 7th Son of a 7th Son, and the sequal (I can't remember it's name). It was about an alternate history of early America and the childhood of a sort of messiah. The first book is really good, it focuses on chracters with profound psychic/telepathic abilities which I thought was highly unusual. Sort of like Julian May's Metaconcert series. The second book was written as an after thought, due to fan demand; it is rather morbid and doesn't seem as well thought out.
GW_Addict
Yes, OSC is unique for sure. In terms of Bean vs. Ender, I dont think I could pick which is my favorite, as each character is so unique. I really love Bean though, and for those of you who have read the latest (Shadow of the Giant) you will be happy to hear OSC leaves the possabilities open for future 'Bean'. I think the biggest difference is that one (Ender) has people skills and genius, and the other jsut has more genius and less people skills (Bean) - at least at the start of the books. :)

As for the Alvin Maker series, here are the books in that:
- The Seventh Son (x2 - Original and Second Cover), Book 1
- Red Prophet, Book 2
- Prentice Alvin, Book 3
- Alvin Journeyman, Book 4
- Heartfire, Book 5
- The Crystal City, Book 6

Some other good Card is the homecoming series:
- The Memory of Earth
- The Call of Earth
- Earthfall
- Earthborn
- The Ships of Earth
randyttp
Yeah Enders Game is fantastic (as I just posted in another thread). But seriously did anyone else feel cheaped or let down by the ending? I thought it was so weak. But other then that the story is great and so are the characters. I was really captivated and read the whole book in no time.
The whole mock battles in the anit-gravity room are excellent. I wish they had stuff like that in real life. Sounds like a blast. Cheers to the Ender fans.
Necrucifer
I like Bean's story better. It has a better, more realistic feel to it all. Though the last book, Shadow of the Giant, made me kind of sad. I love Bean and everything around Bean. I've even been writing a little fan-fic around Bean's story.
lycadia
Necrucifer wrote:
I like Bean's story better. It has a better, more realistic feel to it all. Though the last book, Shadow of the Giant, made me kind of sad. I love Bean and everything around Bean. I've even been writing a little fan-fic around Bean's story.


If you finish it and post it online somewhere, PM me a link, if you would? I don't think I've ever seen a Bean fanfic and I'm curious. *chuckles* I really am a sucker for fanfic, even if I don't really write any. It can be so interesting, seeing another readers take on a favorite or least favorite character.
GW_Addict
Count me in on that link for the post - I love reading most anything from or about Card. :)
tsukiyuuki
Off-topic-- OMG!! A Gundam Wing fan! YAY!

On-topic-- Orson Scott Card is such a fantastic writer. ^_^ I have to admit, my favourite of his series' is definitely "The Tales of Alvin Maker" because I'm a huge sucker for folklore and legend and that sort of thing. Those books sucked me right in and kept me there. And I don't want to leave. Very Happy
leftofcenter
Quote:
Please tell me, when you refer to the Bean series, do you mean there are sequels to Ender's Shadow? If so, what are the titles? I don't know if I've heard of them and I'd be wildly interested in them!


1. Ender's Shadow
2. Shadow of the Hedgemon
3. Shadow Puppets

There is supposedly supposed to be a 4th one, but I don't know if it ever came out! I haven't read Shadow of the Hedgemon, but I have read Shadow Puppets *stupid high school library* They are excellent and awesome, and you liked Petra, she plays a much larger role in the later books. And now I'm going to shut up before I give away any spoilers. Wink
benwhite
I enjoyed both Bean and Ender's stories and didn't particularly prefer one over the other. But Beans story to me is certainly less realistic. An infant surviving against odds from birth before he could speak and overcoming other personalities at age 2 is a bit harder to swallow than Ender's upbringing. The series itself gets worse over its course, at least by general consensus. The first two novels were the strongest.
GW_Addict
leftofcenter wrote:
Quote:
Please tell me, when you refer to the Bean series, do you mean there are sequels to Ender's Shadow? If so, what are the titles? I don't know if I've heard of them and I'd be wildly interested in them!


1. Ender's Shadow
2. Shadow of the Hedgemon
3. Shadow Puppets

There is supposedly supposed to be a 4th one, but I don't know if it ever came out! I haven't read Shadow of the Hedgemon, but I have read Shadow Puppets *stupid high school library* They are excellent and awesome, and you liked Petra, she plays a much larger role in the later books. And now I'm going to shut up before I give away any spoilers. :wink:


The fourth one is called "Shadow of the Giant" and (as all of Cards books are) is a great read.

Also, while on the topic of other books, there are two out there not on the list above. One is 'Enchantment' (which I just picked up but have not yet read) and the other is a compilation of short stories all written by OSC.

It's title is "Maps in a Mirror – The Short Fiction of Orson Scott Card."

It too is a must read for card fans.

Now, if they would just hurry up with the Enders Game movie..... :)
tsukiyuuki
They're making one of OSC's books into a movie? OMG! *fangirls* I can't wait!

I really wish they'd make a movie of something from his "Tales of Alvin Maker" too. *sighs*
Enderwiggin
If it isnt obvious, Ender's Game is my favorite book, Or, My favorite Line of books, I also liked the homecoming series, or whatever you'd call it... I keep hearing of the Ender's Game movie, but I really get the feeling its not happening.... The movies of books usually arent anywhere near as good anyways... But I do hope it comes, Speaking of Enders game, I am going to go re read it now.... Damn addictive books Razz
GW_Addict
Enderwiggin wrote:
If it isnt obvious, Ender's Game is my favorite book, Or, My favorite Line of books, I also liked the homecoming series, or whatever you'd call it... I keep hearing of the Ender's Game movie, but I really get the feeling its not happening.... The movies of books usually arent anywhere near as good anyways... But I do hope it comes, Speaking of Enders game, I am going to go re read it now.... Damn addictive books :P


I guess it depends on who they get to produce and direct the movie, but you are correct in that Hollywood just cannot do most books justice.

Nobody can deny a true fan with a name like that.

Your name says it all...... :)
randyttp
I have been hearing asbout that movie for years and years. I first heard it was going to be with sean connery. I thought that wouldve been cool. But yeah it has been pushed back about, what, 7years now.. DANG, I would say its probably never gonna happen.


I would like to see them try a legend of zelda movie before the enders game.
Link would be a total hardass.
randyttp
I have been hearing asbout that movie for years and years. I first heard it was going to be with sean connery. I thought that wouldve been cool. But yeah it has been pushed back about, what, 7years now.. DANG, I would say its probably never gonna happen.


I would like to see them try a legend of zelda movie before the enders game.
Link would be a total hardass.
jockmcgonzo
for me the ender and bean series were brilliant and Ender's game was my first read of OSC thought it was amazing ran through it in a day. then afterwards tried to find else what else of his were out there sped through the whole 'enderverse' then found the Alvin Maker series which were a delight to read.

haven't read any of the homecoming series yet as got hooked on Ringworld before i could start. can anyone tell me how favourably they compare with 'enderverse' and maker series?
GW_Addict
jockmcgonzo wrote:
for me the ender and bean series were brilliant and Ender's game was my first read of OSC thought it was amazing ran through it in a day. then afterwards tried to find else what else of his were out there sped through the whole 'enderverse' then found the Alvin Maker series which were a delight to read.

haven't read any of the homecoming series yet as got hooked on Ringworld before i could start. can anyone tell me how favourably they compare with 'enderverse' and maker series?


I think it is safe to say that anything written by OSC is a good read :)
jockmcgonzo
GW_Addict wrote:
I think it is safe to say that anything written by OSC is a good read Smile


It's a good point Very Happy
Tasa
I loved the Ender story. It was great I have not yet read the Bean shot off but I have heard great things about it.

My favorite series of Card's is Homecoming one I would suggest everyone read.

Of course my favorite book written by Card is "SongMaster" It is huge but you get so sucked into it, I read it in one night.

I have also heard good things about his women of the bible series.
GW_Addict
Tasa wrote:
I loved the Ender story. It was great I have not yet read the Bean shot off but I have heard great things about it.

My favorite series of Card's is Homecoming one I would suggest everyone read.

Of course my favorite book written by Card is "SongMaster" It is huge but you get so sucked into it, I read it in one night.

I have also heard good things about his women of the bible series.


Songmaster? I have never heard of this one - and here I considered myself a hardcore OSC fan! What’s this book about? Is it a stand-alone book, or is it part of a series?

Please tell!!! :)))
benwhite
Songmaster is a standalone book. Amazon says that, "Card here offers the tale of Ansset, a young boy whose perfect singing voice has the power of amplifying people's emotions, making him both a potential healer and destroyer."

Got 4 stars out of 5 in 48 reviews. Written back in 1988; the paperback is around 350 pages.
dorebase2006
Is it good ? I've never heard this name ever ! I'll find this at bookstore but can you tell me something about this ? What's it about ?
Garnet
The Ender series left an impact on me for months after. I too prefered Bean - for some reason when I look back on them Bean's the one who appeared to have more of a personality even though he's pretty cold. I wasn't crazy about Shadow of the Hedgemon, since it seemed to be stretchin things a tad. I'm having a hard time imagining how Hollywood could possibly do Ender's Game justice. I mean part of the charm was that everyone was likeable but also very distant. We only got to see what they were like because we could see how they view the world.

The battle room was a really cool idea. I want one.
Enderwiggin
Garnet wrote:
The Ender series left an impact on me for months after. I too prefered Bean - for some reason when I look back on them Bean's the one who appeared to have more of a personality even though he's pretty cold. I wasn't crazy about Shadow of the Hedgemon, since it seemed to be stretchin things a tad. I'm having a hard time imagining how Hollywood could possibly do Ender's Game justice. I mean part of the charm was that everyone was likeable but also very distant. We only got to see what they were like because we could see how they view the world.

The battle room was a really cool idea. I want one.


LOL, I want a battle room too, but the cost would probably be insanely high, probably in the millions or billions of dollars Neutral Neutral

Part of what made Ender's game good is the fact that it is a book, a book can never be truly captured on the screen unless its the kind of onipotent that sees all but doesnt know all... and I REALLY dont think Ender's game fits that category, Its more or less just knowing what Ender knows, with small views into Conolel Graff's doings...
GW_Addict
benwhite wrote:
Songmaster is a standalone book. Amazon says that, "Card here offers the tale of Ansset, a young boy whose perfect singing voice has the power of amplifying people's emotions, making him both a potential healer and destroyer."

Got 4 stars out of 5 in 48 reviews. Written back in 1988; the paperback is around 350 pages.


I am on my may to buy this now.... I still cannot believe I had never heard of this book before! (And here I am calling myself a die-hard OSC fan! :)))
Mason11987
dorebase2006 wrote:
Is it good ? I've never heard this name ever ! I'll find this at bookstore but can you tell me something about this ? What's it about ?


I seriously recommend the Ender's Game Series: Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind. They are incredible books.

All of them are very deep, but Ender's game is more lighthearded although that's really relative given the kind of things that go on in the book which of course I will not share here. But compared to the others it is probably the most lighthearted book. It is about a kind named Ender Wiggin and his ability to supercede others in this training program for children in space. There is so much more to it. But I don't want to ruin anything for you.

Speaker for the Dead is an awesome addition, I can't really tell you much about it, but what's on the back cover Smile. It involves a new thing called Speaking for the Dead which is when a person tells what someones life TRULY was and they don't sugarcoat it basically, there is a lot more to it, but I don't want to say much more. The main plot involves a woman, and her children, adn the discovery of a new primitive sapient race on a different planet. There is a lot more philosophical intrigue in this one then action. But it's not devoid of action either. It's hard to tell you more without ruining anything. But you don't necessarily need to read ender's game to get the most out of it. The author explains most (if not all) references to things in Ender's Game so that you woudln't need to read it in order to read this (although I'd recommened it)

Xenocide extends on Speaker for the dead, and shouldn't be read without reading speaker for the dead first.

Children of the Mind basically concludes the Ender Saga, but again, I can't say more without ruining the previous books, you will love it when you get to this though. The Technical Sci-Fi gets QUITE deep in this one though, and some parts need a few read throughs to get the most out of it.

I think Xenocide was one of the better onces, then Children of the mind, but they wouldn't have been anything with the plot built up through speaker for the dead and the references back to Ender's game throughout the story are enough that I'd say just start at the first one and read through (I actually did that earlier this year, read them all in 2 weeks, then read the Shadow series (below) in the next couple weeks.), they will hold your attention if you like sci-fi.

Ender's Shadow is a side-plot to Ender's Game. It follows a child nick-named Bean, who eventually meets Ender in Ender's Game. But this shows his struggle to get to a position of greatness just as Ender did. Reading Ender's Shadow puts a whole new spin on Ender's Game especially once you read about Ender and Bean's conversations in one book, then in the other. They think completly different, but also incredibly similar. It's pretty amazing really. Bean is probably my favorite character due to the fact that he is incredibly intelligent. This book (and the next 3) also completly detail a large time gap within Ender's Game. When you read Ender's game, you'll know what I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if you wanted to read Ender's Game, then the whole Shadow series before reading the rest of the Ender Series.

I can't really elaborate on the other 3 books in the Shadow series without destroying part of Ender's Shadow's or Ender's Game's plot. But it is based on earth, and actually only minimal sci-fi. The most sci-fi thing is the fact that there is an international space station (as in Ender's Game), and some references to near-future biology and really smart kids. They are nonetheless awesome reads for anyone sci-fi or not and describe a POSSIBLE not-to-distant future.

The 3 books are Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, and Shadow of the Giant. Do read them

There is supposedly a book that is called Shadows in flight which is going to come out in the near future which describes a connection between the two series and clears up the several plot-lines left over from shadow of the giant. But I haven't heard much about it. That hatrack link above has info though.
GW_Addict
Wow - that was a long (but very well written!) overview. :))))
GW_Addict
So - feeling guilty at calling myself a die-hard OSC fan and having never heard of his book 'Songmaster', I payed a visit to Barnes and Nobles last night and (in addition to Songmaster) picked up two (yes two!) more books of his that I have never read.

One was 'Hart's Hope' and the other was 'Treason'.

Obviously I have not read these two yet, so I thought I would ask this audience - how are they? :)
corridor_writers
As a writer and avid reader, I must say that I whole-heartedly agree with the views in this forum. Orson Scott Card is indeed a remarkable writer.

One of a kind in my opinion (even though I do not own and have not read every one of his books like GW_Addict. Smile
GW_Addict
corridor_writers wrote:
As a writer and avid reader, I must say that I whole-heartedly agree with the views in this forum. Orson Scott Card is indeed a remarkable writer.

One of a kind in my opinion (even though I do not own and have not read every one of his books like GW_Addict. :)


lol - there is always time! A couple hundred (or thousand) ;) bucks at Amazon.com and your set!
Camel
I have read only 'Enders Game'.
It was great Cool
TheGreatDalmuti
GW_Addict wrote:
So - feeling guilty at calling myself a die-hard OSC fan and having never heard of his book 'Songmaster', I payed a visit to Barnes and Nobles last night and (in addition to Songmaster) picked up two (yes two!) more books of his that I have never read.

One was 'Hart's Hope' and the other was 'Treason'.

Obviously I have not read these two yet, so I thought I would ask this audience - how are they? :)

Here's for GW_Addict: Card's got quite a few other books other than the Ender, Alvin, and Homecoming series. A lot of his older writing, especially his short stories (collected in "Maps in the Mirror" one and two) aren't nearly as engaging in my opinion. Two of his GREAT stand-alones (apart from Songmaster, Hart's Hope, and Treason) are:

Enchantment. This is a retelling of Sleeping Beauty- Card style. Very inventive, using lots of Russian folklore and modern times... Fun.

Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus. This was a real coming-out-of-nowhere GREAT read. It essentially asks the age-old question of what would happen if people could go back in time in order to change the past. Card spins that by asking, "What if it's already happened?"

Pastwatch in particular is hard to come by. If you can find it, it'll be worth it.
lycadia
I've just finished the first book and while, as a woman, a few aspects of it were a touch off putting, I'd still recommend it. Can anyone give me a run down of the rest of them and tell me if they stay about the same, or change signifigantly. Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow for example, are a lot different then Shadow of the Hedgemon, ect, though they're all good in different ways.
I could google them and get the backtext, but I'm looking for more a brief review. Should I track them down or no?
Thanks in advance for any help!
Lycadia.
corridor_writers
lycadia wrote:
I've just finished the first book and while, as a woman, a few aspects of it were a touch off putting, I'd still recommend it. Can anyone give me a run down of the rest of them and tell me if they stay about the same, or change signifigantly. Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow for example, are a lot different then Shadow of the Hedgemon, ect, though they're all good in different ways.
I could google them and get the backtext, but I'm looking for more a brief review. Should I track them down or no?
Thanks in advance for any help!
Lycadia.


Which first book have you finished? Enders Game? If so, this is the perfect OSC book to start with. I would then recomend you keep going and reading the rest of the books in this and the "Bean" series.

If you want brief revews of every book he has written...well, I don't know that I have that much time, but you can check out his web site at: http://www.hatrack.com/ - where he is also advertising a new book of his called "Ultimate Iron Man".

Anybody read this new ones yet?

Also, sounds like I need to keep an eye open for Pastwatch Smile
GW_Addict
Awesome, thanks for the recommend TheGreatDalmuti.

I will look for Pastwatch and Maps in the Mirror 2! I had no idea there was a sequel!

While I agree some of this books are much, much better than others, I have not yet ever read anything of his that I did not like.

That, and I am a little OCD - have to collect them all. Smile
Game Fortress
His newest novel "Magic Street" was okay, but I liked the Ender's Game books alot better. There was too much shakespear background knowledge needed to appreciate "Magic Street"
corridor_writers
I have not read a handful of his stand-alone books, but must agree with GW_Addict that I have not yet read anything of his I did not like. Still, I must admit some of his work is better than others. Sounds like Magic Street may be one of those 'others'.
ignitionnight
Enders Game was great, but I never was a fan of anything that followed it. Speaker for the dead was ok, but I hated Xenocide. I didn't bother reading anything past that.
corridor_writers
ignitionnight wrote:
Enders Game was great, but I never was a fan of anything that followed it. Speaker for the dead was ok, but I hated Xenocide. I didn't bother reading anything past that.


If this is the case then may I wholeheartedly recommend that you read the Bean series (starting with Enders Shadow) then. While I love all of his writing, these are the only books that I rank at the same level as Enders Game (though it is still the top. Smile
GW_Addict
corridor_writers wrote:
ignitionnight wrote:
Enders Game was great, but I never was a fan of anything that followed it. Speaker for the dead was ok, but I hated Xenocide. I didn't bother reading anything past that.


If this is the case then may I wholeheartedly recommend that you read the Bean series (starting with Enders Shadow) then. While I love all of his writing, these are the only books that I rank at the same level as Enders Game (though it is still the top. :)


Yes, yes yes....what corridor_writers said. Don't give up on his stuff until you have read the Bean series. If you doubt this, read some of the posts above. I think the feelings on this subject are pretty much unanimous.
evanc88
GW_Addict wrote:
corridor_writers wrote:
ignitionnight wrote:
Enders Game was great, but I never was a fan of anything that followed it. Speaker for the dead was ok, but I hated Xenocide. I didn't bother reading anything past that.


If this is the case then may I wholeheartedly recommend that you read the Bean series (starting with Enders Shadow) then. While I love all of his writing, these are the only books that I rank at the same level as Enders Game (though it is still the top. Smile


Yes, yes yes....what corridor_writers said. Don't give up on his stuff until you have read the Bean series. If you doubt this, read some of the posts above. I think the feelings on this subject are pretty much unanimous.


No kidding. Bean was a harsh little punk in his first book but the rest of the Shadow series is amazing. Shadow Puppets, I guess, is my favorite. He just seems to have so much more personality than Ender. I guess it's understandable, seeing as Ender had so much pressure on him and then had to deal with xenocide and everything. <3 Bean and Petra, though.
Pensuke
I remember reading Ender's Game and at first I groaned at the length of it.

But I later learned to enjoy the book. I'm not sure what I liked about it; it might've been the theme or just that the length was a good length. Nothing boring and old seems to happen to Ender a bit, and he goes through very adult things for an eight-year-old or so.
corridor_writers
My son has picked up Enders game and has now read it twice. He is a bit of a genius himself, and really enjoys the book. I can see how the book would help to show kids that if you put your mind to something, not matter how impossible the task, you can succeed. I know that I thought that - even as an adult.
GW_Addict
Definately a great book for all ages.
GW_Addict
OK, well perhaps not really young kids. Teens and adults I guess. There are certainly some dark pieces of that book (and the whole Ender and Bean series) that you would not want young kids dwelling on. But I still think that there are lessons, morals, and an overwhelming positive features to these books.

Most of Cards works are this way. Almost everything has a positive twist to it. (I say almost. There are a couple of his works that are rather negative - especially his short stories.)
corridor_writers
GW_Addict wrote:
OK, well perhaps not really young kids. Teens and adults I guess. There are certainly some dark pieces of that book (and the whole Ender and Bean series) that you would not want young kids dwelling on. But I still think that there are lessons, morals, and an overwhelming positive features to these books.

Most of Cards works are this way. Almost everything has a positive twist to it. (I say almost. There are a couple of his works that are rather negative - especially his short stories.)


Glad to see you tempered your last post with this follow-up one. You must remember that Ender kills a couple of kids, even before he commits genocide (though granted the first were in self defense and the latter unknowingly, but still....)

However, there are some very positive lessons that can be taken from almost all of his stories, for sure.

I have to say almost because I have recently read a short story of his entitles "Freeway Games" that left me shocked - mostly by the fact that Card could even write something like this!

For those who have not read this, let me just say - DONT. As Card is an Mormon, I am surprised that he was not excommunicated for this particular work.
GW_Addict
corridor_writers wrote:

For those who have not read this, let me just say - DONT. As Card is an Mormon, I am surprised that he was not excommunicated for this particular work.


Yea - I read this in his "Maps in a Mirror" short story compilation (which had some other rather unusual stories in it as well) and was absolutely dumfounded by the nature of it. OSC must really be secure in his career to publish that one. I think if I were him I would have buried that one away and pretend that I never wrote it.
viceless
as far as a movie goes. i think the only way to do the "Ender's Game" Series any justice, it must be animated. I watch plenty of anime and I know that there are more than enough talented animators in Japan to get something like this off the ground. not that US animators aren't talented enough, its just that there have only been two US cartoons that everyone agrees looked amazing, 1) Power Puff Girls, and 2) Teen Titans, and one was drawn in a classic anime style...

and yeah the books are a great read for anyone into sci-fi. having read all of ender's game series, i must say i was disappointed with children of the mind, but it was still a worthwhile read, and i appreciate greatly the time Card put into this series.
corridor_writers
viceless wrote:
as far as a movie goes. i think the only way to do the "Ender's Game" Series any justice, it must be animated. I watch plenty of anime and I know that there are more than enough talented animators in Japan to get something like this off the ground. not that US animators aren't talented enough, its just that there have only been two US cartoons that everyone agrees looked amazing, 1) Power Puff Girls, and 2) Teen Titans, and one was drawn in a classic anime style...

and yeah the books are a great read for anyone into sci-fi. having read all of ender's game series, i must say i was disappointed with children of the mind, but it was still a worthwhile read, and i appreciate greatly the time Card put into this series.


So, I am guessing Power Puff Girls were the ones done in classic Anime style? ouch - I’m sorry, but the idea of Ender flying around in his Zero-G Suit with blazing lines of color behind him (like those that follow the power puff girls around) just does not appeal. Sorry, I have to disagree. Real actors, with plenty of special effects is the way that this one will work, not as a kids cartoon.
evanc88
I'd really hate to see the books turned into movies. I think it'd cheapen it. There's... really no way to animate or film the battle room for example, without screwing it up. I think everyone kind of has their own perfect version of it in their head, so to see one person's idea of it (or even OSC's) I think would ruin it for a lot of people.

I've never read Freeway Games. Why is it so bad?
viceless
considering how they made "mormon" comments im assuming its either graphic or sexual.

anyways i still think strongly that an anime made by real anime artists, not teen titan artists... would do extremely well.

doesnt anyone else watch anime? come on, there are plenty of great animators i would trust wholly to turn this book into a movie.
lycadia
corridor_writers wrote:
lycadia wrote:
I've just finished the first book and while, as a woman, a few aspects of it were a touch off putting, I'd still recommend it. Can anyone give me a run down of the rest of them and tell me if they stay about the same, or change signifigantly. Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow for example, are a lot different then Shadow of the Hedgemon, ect, though they're all good in different ways.
I could google them and get the backtext, but I'm looking for more a brief review. Should I track them down or no?
Thanks in advance for any help!
Lycadia.


Which first book have you finished? Enders Game? If so, this is the perfect OSC book to start with. I would then recomend you keep going and reading the rest of the books in this and the "Bean" series.

If you want brief revews of every book he has written...well, I don't know that I have that much time, but you can check out his web site at: http://www.hatrack.com/ - where he is also advertising a new book of his called "Ultimate Iron Man".

Anybody read this new ones yet?

Also, sounds like I need to keep an eye open for Pastwatch Smile


I was refering to the first book of the Homecoming Series, that's why I changed the subject line. I suppose I need to stop doing that and be more clear in the post itself. Those subject lines are easy to miss. In any case, I picked up a paperback 3 in 1 of the Homecoming Series recently, so while I haven't read the rest yet, I will sooner of later. Nice to see this thread is still going, though slowly.

Since conversation has now moved to the idea of a movie, I think I'd rather see it as a well done live action movie then animated. Unfortunately, no one in America takes animated (be it drawn or fully CGI) movies seriously at the moment and as much as I personally feel Ender's Game is acceptable for many preteen or young adult readers, I don't think it would make a good kids movies and I fear if it were to be done in animation, they would tone it down for the kiddie set.

I think it would be best served -if it were going to be done at all- by live action with mostly or all unknown actors and a lot of wirework for the zero G scenes and a good bit of CGI. But that's just my opinion.
corridor_writers
First, to "evanc88" who asked - "I've never read Freeway Games. Why is it so bad?"

In short it is a short story about a youth who literally "get's off" on killing people on the freeway. And while this sort of story would fit perfectly well into a Stephen King or Eric Van Lustbager book, it is really not Card's style, as as such caught me very much off-guard.

And I agree wholeheartedly with lycadia. Making this a movie would be tough, especially (as evanc88 pointed out) as so many people have their own concept of what the book "looked" like (and directors all too often impose their own beliefs into the screen) it is actually still possible, with very careful attention being paid to both the actors and the copious amounts of CGI that would be needed.

And yes, I have seen some very well done animation (the Final Fantasy movie for example) but still agree with lycadia that it needs to be with real people, augmented by CGI.
evanc88
Eesh, that doesn't sound like Card, you're right.

And about the movie: I'm almost completely with you on the fact that it needs to have real actors--but, more recently, have you watched Pirates of the Caribbean 2? The character of Davy Jones was completely, 100% animated and it was amazing. I'd have faith in an animated movie, but the money it would cost to do that is unthinkable.
GW_Addict
evanc88 wrote:
Eesh, that doesn't sound like Card, you're right.

And about the movie: I'm almost completely with you on the fact that it needs to have real actors--but, more recently, have you watched Pirates of the Caribbean 2? The character of Davy Jones was completely, 100% animated and it was amazing. I'd have faith in an animated movie, but the money it would cost to do that is unthinkable.


Yup, I agree with both of you. If the movie had a great cast, and a HUGE budget for special effects and animation/CGI I think they could pull it off nicely.

And yes, there are animated movies out there that show that this could be purely animated as well, but real people make any movies more ‘real’, and Enders game is a very ‘real’ human story.

Hopefully I am not the only one who thinks this way, and some rich director goes out and does this!
corridor_writers
GW_Addict wrote:
evanc88 wrote:
Eesh, that doesn't sound like Card, you're right.

And about the movie: I'm almost completely with you on the fact that it needs to have real actors--but, more recently, have you watched Pirates of the Caribbean 2? The character of Davy Jones was completely, 100% animated and it was amazing. I'd have faith in an animated movie, but the money it would cost to do that is unthinkable.


Yup, I agree with both of you. If the movie had a great cast, and a HUGE budget for special effects and animation/CGI I think they could pull it off nicely.

And yes, there are animated movies out there that show that this could be purely animated as well, but real people make any movies more ‘real’, and Enders game is a very ‘real’ human story.

Hopefully I am not the only one who thinks this way, and some rich director goes out and does this!


Yea, after seeing pirates I can see this.... Like GW_Addict says, If the movie had a great cast, and a HUGE budget for special effects and animation/CGI I think they could pull it off nicely.

So...now all we have to do is wait for somebody to pick up the movie rights to this and do it. If we are lucky it will be somebody like Steven Spealberg or Peter Jackman. Smile

We can but hope....
lycadia
[quote="GW_Addict"]
evanc88 wrote:
Enders game is a very ‘real’ human story.

Hopefully I am not the only one who thinks this way, and some rich director goes out and does this!


I think that that's the hardest part for me about telling people about Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow... People want to think about it as a sci-fi adventure story... And it works wonderfully on that level.
But on a much much deeper and more profound level, I think it's about morality and the nature of childhood and society's tampering and reactions to both.

The first time I read Ender's Game, I was captivated by Ender and Bean. The second time I read Ender's Game, I was captivated as much by the other children. By the third time, I was really disturbed by the setting itself. The background. A world where children were genetically engineered or selectively bred to be taken away and taught to fight and kill, where the innocence of children was used to make them into weapons and... having read about the child - soldiers kidnapped, trained and used in many guerrilla wars in the third world, I was almost heart broken to find I'd been telling myself that nations like mine wouldn't do that to children because it wouldn't be effective, even if the moral issue would probably not stop them if they thought they could get away with it... Then realizing that the same things happen to children in the real world on a regular basis.

At which point I thought maybe it wasn't such a great book for older kids and young adults. On the other hand, maybe they'll have the same experiance I did... First as an exciting engrossing story, then later, as something thoughtprovoking and intellectually unsettling. We should be unsettled by books sometimes, I believe.
corridor_writers
[quote="lycadia"]
GW_Addict wrote:
evanc88 wrote:
Enders game is a very ‘real’ human story.

Hopefully I am not the only one who thinks this way, and some rich director goes out and does this!


I think that that's the hardest part for me about telling people about Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow... People want to think about it as a sci-fi adventure story... And it works wonderfully on that level.
But on a much much deeper and more profound level, I think it's about morality and the nature of childhood and society's tampering and reactions to both.

The first time I read Ender's Game, I was captivated by Ender and Bean. The second time I read Ender's Game, I was captivated as much by the other children. By the third time, I was really disturbed by the setting itself. The background. A world where children were genetically engineered or selectively bred to be taken away and taught to fight and kill, where the innocence of children was used to make them into weapons and... having read about the child - soldiers kidnapped, trained and used in many guerrilla wars in the third world, I was almost heart broken to find I'd been telling myself that nations like mine wouldn't do that to children because it wouldn't be effective, even if the moral issue would probably not stop them if they thought they could get away with it... Then realizing that the same things happen to children in the real world on a regular basis.

At which point I thought maybe it wasn't such a great book for older kids and young adults. On the other hand, maybe they'll have the same experiance I did... First as an exciting engrossing story, then later, as something thoughtprovoking and intellectually unsettling. We should be unsettled by books sometimes, I believe.


Yes, I agree, and well said! I have read the book numerous times (it is definitely one that can be read over and over and over) and have seen the various elements come out in it each time. Another credit to Orson Scott Cards brilliance is that as you read the other books, they not only grow these perceptions and expand on them, but they will actually change how you perceive things the next time you go back and read Enders game.

I can remember the first time I read the book. I wanted to be Ender. The last time around I though “no way”. The same with Bean.

In a nut-shell I don’t know of any other writer who can be so far into the cutting edge of sci-fi, and yet relate on such a close human level.
I_Luv_Bean624
My favorite character is Bean, there for I love Ender's Shadow. I do however, Love Ender's Game too. I really do not like the sequals to Ender's Game (ex:Speaker for the Dead). I have also read Shadow of the Hegemon, and the first half of Shadow of the Giant. Sadly, neither my school of public libary has Shadow Puppets! I reall,y hope to find it, though!
JoseRizal
Speaker for the Dead was one of the best sci-fi novels i've read. since then i started looking for more books from Orson Scott Card.
another author i like is David Brin.
I_Luv_Bean624
I have nothing against Speaker for the Dead as a book itself, Ii just did not enjoy it as much as the I did some of the other ones.
corridor_writers
I_Luv_Bean624 wrote:
My favorite character is Bean, there for I love Ender's Shadow. I do however, Love Ender's Game too. I really do not like the sequals to Ender's Game (ex:Speaker for the Dead). I have also read Shadow of the Hegemon, and the first half of Shadow of the Giant. Sadly, neither my school of public libary has Shadow Puppets! I reall,y hope to find it, though!


Getting Cards book from a Library is something I decided I could not do. Instead, I have puchased them all. Smile

You can always do what I did and go to Amazon.com and just purchase them - they are definately worth owning. Smile))
corridor_writers
Any of you Orson Scott card fans seen the new book he just published called 'Empire'?

Here is the synopsis of the book from his site:
http://www.hatrack.com/osc/books/empire/empire.shtml

"The American Empire has grown too fast, and the fault lines at home are stressed to the breaking point. The war of words between Right and Left has collapsed into a shooting war, though most people just want to be left alone.

The battle rages between the high-technology weapons on one side and militia foot soldiers on the other, devastating the cities and overrunning the countryside. But the vast majority, who only want the killing to stop and the nation to return to more peaceful days, have technology, weapons, and strategic geniuses of their own.

When the American dream shatters into violence, who can hold the people and the government together? And which side will you be on?"

Can't wait to read it!!!
gossamerassylum
Yes, I absolutely love ender's game and anything else Orson Scott Card. He is one of my favorite sci/fi authors. speaking of sci/fi, has anyone here read the book Timescape? That is another one of my favorite sci/fi books ever.
corridor_writers
gossamerassylum wrote:
Yes, I absolutely love ender's game and anything else Orson Scott Card. He is one of my favorite sci/fi authors. speaking of sci/fi, has anyone here read the book Timescape? That is another one of my favorite sci/fi books ever.


I have not read Timescape yet. Who writes that one?
corridor_writers
I am guessing that you are referring to the one written by Gregory Benford?

Again - I have not read this, so I cannot give it my vote one way or the other. Smile

http://www.amazon.com/Timescape-Gregory-Benford/dp/0553297090/sr=1-1/qid=1168372535/ref=pd_bbs_1/105-2876095-6653229?ie=UTF8&s=books
corridor_writers
Anybody on this oh-so-quite post read Wyrms? I just read it, and even though it was a best-seller in 1987 (you would not believe how hard it was to procure this book) it is still an absolutely amazing read. Card has this wonderful ability to dig deep into the dymanics of a person and a culture, and make another world's culture so real and so dynamic that you think he is writing about an existing world.

So.....at the risk that I am going senile and just sitting on this post talking to myself...........

What do you all think?
evanc88
I gobbled up all of the Ender related books like food. I've bought and been offered a few other Card books but have never gotten around to reading them. The motivation isn't there, though I don't know why. Ender and his story is so engaging (Bean, also) that I wouldn't care who wrote the book, I'd read it. But Card's prose isn't.... it really isn't all that impressive, in my opinion, and as such I feel no pressing desire to read anything more by him too soon.
corridor_writers
evanc88 wrote:
I gobbled up all of the Ender related books like food. I've bought and been offered a few other Card books but have never gotten around to reading them. The motivation isn't there, though I don't know why. Ender and his story is so engaging (Bean, also) that I wouldn't care who wrote the book, I'd read it. But Card's prose isn't.... it really isn't all that impressive, in my opinion, and as such I feel no pressing desire to read anything more by him too soon.


I fully agree that the Ender and Bean series are his best ever. That said though, I do enjoy his other works....just not as much. Smile
TomGrey
I've read quite a bit of OSC, and had been active on 'his' forum (as Tigger / OldTigger), but too busy blogging, now.

The latest Alvin Maker book, 6th now (too lazy to get it from other room), is The Crystal City. It's fine, but there's a sparkle Card often has that this book doesn't quite achieve. Seventh Son is the first of the series, and great; another "fantistic child" book, a bit similar to Ender, a bit like Ender's Shadow (Bean).

I actually enjoyed the Shadow Puppets series more than "Children of the Mind". Lots of prodigies.

An early prodigy story he wrote was Songmaster.

Too bad this thread is so quiet. I think I read Wyrms, but it wasn't so memorable; but I can't be sure. Don't have a copy now. The Homecoming series starts out very strong, and the end has some really interesting ideas.
evanc88
A lot of Card's stuff is basically steeped in concept. Conceptually, it's amazing. It's just, sometimes, he can't pull it off.
TomGrey
What do you think are Card's most amazing concepts?

For me, what OSC can't quite get right is the amazing child prodigy growing up into an adult with a reasonable amazing adult life.

His Alvin Maker (alternative Jesus?) character is particularly interesting, but Card allows Alvin to not know what to do with himself quite a bit -- this IS getting the child to adult bit much more right than Ender, or Bean.
evanc88
Mostly, I meant the Ender and Bean series, as well as Alvin Maker. Alvin Maker is amazing conceptually but so hard to get through, for me. You're right, though. You get these child prodigy storylines and they are so unsatisfying as adults. Bean was easy and acceptable, however, because he barely grew up. Ender was just a disappointing adult.
missdixy
I mostly like Ender's Game & Ender's Shadow. I don't care very much for the rest of his stuff though...
corridor_writers
TomGrey wrote:
What do you think are Card's most amazing concepts?
....


I would have to say that in addition to his ‘Child Prodigy’ theme, a LOT of cards works have a religious theme or overtone to them (as he is a religious person). I am sure that even the ones that don’t seem like they have religious overtones in them do somewhere.

I for one am OK with this, as he is one of the few fiction writers I have ever read from that can not bury his work under the religious content.

This ties back to the question of what his amazing concepts are. If you read enough of his work (and I think I have read almost everything of his at some point), you note that not only does he have a hankering for writing about the ‘growth’ of children, but that he ties these into this own personal religious ideas and beliefs as well.

As an example. The last book I just read of his was ‘Magic Street’. This book is a fantastic view of things we have heard and taken for granted for years (it is based on the battle between good and evil, with plenty of religious overtones, but written around a black community and Shakespeare!). Needless to say, it was a brilliant piece of work. And in terms of getting his child prodigy to make the leap to adulthood in a believable way, I think he also achieved this brilliantly.
corridor_writers
I am working through Empire now (so far, very good book). Has anybody read his newest one "A War of Gifts." I just noticed he had published another one, but don't yet know what it is about.
corridor_writers
WOOT!!!! I jsut read that "A War of Gifts" is an Ender story. (It says it right on the cover....duh!)

I can't believe I missed this. Shame on me....

So...has anybody read this yet? Any reviews? Smile
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