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"Drill Baby Drill" vs. BP Oil Spill





handfleisch
Those who chanted "drill baby drill" so idiotically during the election, like Palin and Michael Steele, are very quiet now that the disaster off the coast of New Orleans shows that "spill baby spill" is a possible result, and in terms of our environment, "kill baby kill". Why does it take a wake up call like this anyway? Weren't all the other oil spills in history lessons enough?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wi8aADt9m8
deanhills
handfleisch wrote:
Those who chanted "drill baby drill" so idiotically during the election, like Palin and Michael Steele, are very quiet now that the disaster off the coast of New Orleans shows that "spill baby spill" is a possible result, and in terms of our environment, "kill baby kill". Why does it take a wake up call like this anyway? Weren't all the other oil spills in history lessons enough?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wi8aADt9m8
Totally agreed with you on this one Handfleisch. How on earth was this allowed to happen? Is it complacency, as I am almost certain that there must have been quality assurance rules that have been broken, and not enforced. Especially following the Exxon Valdez disaster, I would have thought that they would have had regular inspections of anything that could remotely threaten the environment.
handfleisch
Photo essay on the slowly developing disastrous results behind the GOP's "drill baby drill" slogan
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/disaster_unfolds_slowly_in_the.html

Moonspider
handfleisch wrote:
Those who chanted "drill baby drill" so idiotically during the election, like Palin and Michael Steele, are very quiet now that the disaster off the coast of New Orleans shows that "spill baby spill" is a possible result, and in terms of our environment, "kill baby kill". Why does it take a wake up call like this anyway? Weren't all the other oil spills in history lessons enough?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wi8aADt9m8


I don't understand what is "idiotic" about drilling. Currently no substitiute exists for crude oil to meet the energy needs for which it provides. Oil demand will go up in the short term. Guaranteed. Therefore, more reserves will need to be found, drilled, and refined. Oil will remain onew of the primary sources of energy for the foreseeable future.

Oil is not a luxury in our civilization. It's a requirement.

Eventually oil demand will decline, not because of regulations or incentives, but because technology will change of its own accord without government influence or intervention even as energy demand continues to grow. It has to do so because oil is a limited resource.

You see this incident as an indictment against the entire industry. I see it as an indictiment against at least the conduct on the rig and possibly against the companies involved.

We don't scream about the evils of airplanes every time 100 or more people die in a crash. We don't demand that all automobile production end even though people get killed every day. We all still drink out of plastic bottles instead of glass bottles even though plastic is not 100% recycable and glass is. We don't stop running all trains because of derailments. Etc.

Using an oil spill like this, as horrific and disastrous as it is, to demonize the entire oil industry is not productive. It's a waste of time because it does nothing to address the issue, which is energy.

Respectfully,
M
handfleisch
Moonspider wrote:
handfleisch wrote:
Those who chanted "drill baby drill" so idiotically during the election, like Palin and Michael Steele, are very quiet now that the disaster off the coast of New Orleans shows that "spill baby spill" is a possible result, and in terms of our environment, "kill baby kill". Why does it take a wake up call like this anyway? Weren't all the other oil spills in history lessons enough?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wi8aADt9m8


I don't understand what is "idiotic" about drilling. Currently no substitiute exists for crude oil to meet the energy needs for which it provides. Oil demand will go up in the short term. Guaranteed. Therefore, more reserves will need to be found, drilled, and refined. Oil will remain onew of the primary sources of energy for the foreseeable future.

Oil is not a luxury in our civilization. It's a requirement.

Eventually oil demand will decline, not because of regulations or incentives, but because technology will change of its own accord without government influence or intervention even as energy demand continues to grow. It has to do so because oil is a limited resource.

You see this incident as an indictment against the entire industry. I see it as an indictiment against at least the conduct on the rig and possibly against the companies involved.

We don't scream about the evils of airplanes every time 100 or more people die in a crash. We don't demand that all automobile production end even though people get killed every day. We all still drink out of plastic bottles instead of glass bottles even though plastic is not 100% recycable and glass is. We don't stop running all trains because of derailments. Etc.

Using an oil spill like this, as horrific and disastrous as it is, to demonize the entire oil industry is not productive. It's a waste of time because it does nothing to address the issue, which is energy.

Respectfully,
M


You either don't read very carefully or you are being intentionally misleading about what I wrote. Nowhere did I demonize the whole industry and don't even know where you got that.

I also didn't say drilling for oil is idiotic, I said chanting that slogan -- and by extension, the idea behind the slogan, which is mindless support for any and all drilling no matter how reckless, in any and all areas, at the expense of investing in alternative energy and ways to cut down on oil consumption -- is idiotic.
deanhills
Politics aside, I still think there is a great need for enforcing environmental regulations in the US. There should be an upgrade in the regulations and inspection of those rigs that can potentially create disasters such as the current one in the Mexican Gulf.

Quote:
Wednesday's hearings by congressional and administration panels laid out a checklist of unseen breakdowns on largely unregulated aspects of well safety that appear to have contributed to the April 20 blowout aboard the Deepwater Horizon: a leaky cement job, a loose hydraulic fitting, a dead battery. Company officials insist what caused the accident is not yet clear.

The trail of problems highlights the reality that, even as the U.S. does more deepwater offshore drilling in a quest for domestic oil, some key safety components are left almost entirely to the discretion of the companies doing the work.


Quote:
Yet industry officials acknowledged a fistful of regulatory and operational gaps: There is no government standard for design or installation of blowout preventers. The federal government doesn't routinely inspect them before they are installed. Their emergency systems usually go untested once they are set on the seafloor at the mouth of the well. The federal government doesn't require a backup.

In one telling exchange Wednesday at a hearing of the Coast Guard and MMS in Kenner, La., Coast Guard Capt. Hung Nguyen asked a regional supervisor of the federal regulatory agency a question about blowout preventers: "It's my understanding that it's designed to industry standard and it's manufactured by the industry, installed by the industry, with no government witnessing or oversight of the construction or installation. Is that correct?"

"That is correct," replied Michael Saucier, the MMS field supervisor for the Gulf.

As gas pushed upward on the Deepwater Horizon, it suddenly ignited from an unknown source and turned the platform into an enormous fireball. Eleven people were killed.

In the following days, workers kept trying to force the blowout preventer to close — without success.

Maddeningly, they lost a day trying to close a ram without realizing it had been replaced by a useless test part.


Yahoo!News
ocalhoun
Instead of derailing this thread, I'll discuss this in another topic.

A sufficient summary though, would be that yes, we should continue drilling, but take extreme care to prevent such accidents. (Not just lip-service either- strictly enforced regulation.)
handfleisch
Sarah Palin said today she would still "drill baby drill" in some official Republican publicity (FOX news).

Meanwhile Obama is not letting BP evade their financial responsibility:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/us/14spill.html?hp
Quote:
Obama Plans to Force BP’s Hand on Oil Spill Fund
By JACKIE CALMES 2:36 PM ET

President Obama will outline plans to force BP to reserve billions of dollars to compensate businesses and individuals for the oil spill.


http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6573FD20100613
Quote:
La./LONDON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama will press BP executives this week to set up an escrow account to pay damage claims by individuals and businesses hurt by the Gulf of Mexico oil spill disaster.

The move comes as Obama, who will address the nation about the spill on Tuesday night, faces questions on his handling of the disaster, which was in its 55th day. Millions of gallons of oil have poured into the Gulf since an April 20 offshore rig blast killed 11 workers and blew out the well.

Obama also will call for an independent panel to administer the payments when he meets Chairman Carl-Henric Svanberg and other BP officials at the White House on Wednesday.
Nemesis234
this is the first major oil spill from a drilling rig, i really dont see why everyone is getting worked up about it. considering there are tens of thousands of oil platforms, and one goes wrong it seems some people consider it to be the end of the world. i bet BP didnt ask for it to go wrong, i bet if they knew of a potential hazard that may cause a leak they would fix it before it blew.

btw exxon valdez was a boat that ran aground, i really dont see the relevance, it spilled oil in completely different circumstances.

i dont see how this is a wake up call anyway, nothing will change, there is no need for it to change, we need oil, we need it now, simple as. it would be stupid to impose new laws on the oil rigs when 99.99% are proving to be reliable at the current requirements.
deanhills
Nemesis234 wrote:
i dont see how this is a wake up call anyway, nothing will change, there is no need for it to change, we need oil, we need it now, simple as. it would be stupid to impose new laws on the oil rigs when 99.99% are proving to be reliable at the current requirements.
Right, we do need oil, but there has to be safeguards to "minimize" environmental damage. The point here is that there are perfectly good safeguards that have been enacted by the US Federal Government, however that they have not been followed. BP was exempted from proper assessment at that deep depth of drilling. I was sympathetic of BP initially, as well as Britain in general, as of course any damage to BP has to affect the economy of Britain in general as well, especially during the current recession. But there has to be a lesson that comes out of this however. Canada immediately picked up on the lesson, and checked out the safety checks in place of its rigs. It obviously places a cost on the oil companies, but I'm sure that cost will be much less, than what it is currently costing BP and those States who are dependent on the Gulf for a large part of their economy.
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