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Zeitgist Movement





mk12327
I just watched a documentary titled "Zeitgist Addendum", which explains the monetary system we are all currently in and how it is all nothing but a big scam.

Initially, i could not find the most suitable place to put this topic as it covers Economics, Politics and even Religion. Finally, i decided to just leave it in General Chat.

Basically, it explains how the monetary system work on a system of debt and money. In a nutshell, "money" is constantly being created out of thin air and that deficit and inflation is already built in within the system. We are always in debt, and thus forced to work endlessly to "earn" money. It is as though a form of modern slavery. Total sustainability and abundance is not something that the big economic players want to happen, because these 2 ideas simply conflicts with PROFITS. By having sustainability and abundance, there will not be demand, and therefore no one to "consume" the supply they produce. One good example is the closing down of oil rigs so as to ensure the price of oil remain profitable for them. In the first place, do we really need fossil fuels? If we all use renewable energy, these fuel companies will go bust, and i'm sure they would not like that to happen.

One of the reasons i bring this up in Frihost forums is that Frihost on itself is a good example of how we humans can work together and reform this flawed monetary system.
ocalhoun
So the solution is what? Go to a gold-based (or other commodity based) currency, and drastically reduce use of debt?
mk12327
Other than your suggestions, maybe barter trade? Honestly, it is so abstract i am unable to suggest an exact solution to it. Though i'm sure something has to be done to improve the current social situation. We are all in this "survival of the fittest" society where people simply exploit others to their own interests. Only the people at the top gets the best and control over others. It is like the typical "the rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer" saying.

I was just discussing this issue with a friend of mine last night and she was suggesting to me that the problem does not lie in the monetary system, but within the fundamentals of human character. Her theory is that most humans are greedy and selfish by nature and even if we reform the society, we will still end up with something that others will exploit.

We ended up without a solution again, though quite a fair bit of pros and cons was brought forward.
Afaceinthematrix
We have to work constantly to produce. Our economy would fail if we weren't producing. Yeah money isn't real, but you have to have someway to measure production. The gold standard won't work and then you do realize that if we bartered and traded, our economy would collapse even more? We need debt.... So how many years are you going to grow corn on your personal farm to trade someone for their car so that you can have both? Oh wait, we won't have cars because people have to work endlessly to produce those...

So what system (that will actually work) do you suggest using to fix this current system? Because I can't really think of a better way. It isn't a scam. Money is created (at a reasonable rate) so that we can have something to measure our production with and see how much goods someone can trade for their production... Don't think of it as a scam. Think of money as a middle man. I produced x amount of cars and so I deserve y amount of other goods or services. How do I claim those other goods or services? Well I essentially have money to show that I earned them...
Jinx
Money must be:

1. Scarce
2. Durable
3. Portable
4. Of Value

Like gold coins... everyone agrees that gold has value, it's certainly scarce, it's durable, and, in small units like coins, portable.

The problem with our currency is that it has no intrinsic value - it's just paper! It's only worth something as long as the people backing it (our government) has the resources to back it up. Our paper used to be backed up by gold, and so was worth something as a symbol of the gold that backed it. Now it's fiat currency - it only has value because those of us using it agree that it has value. Since we are losing confidence in the ability of the government to back up the currency it is losing value.

It's becoming less scarce because the Federal Reserve Bank keeps creating more out of thin air, which is also causing it to loose value.

We need to move our economic basis over to a unit of exchange that is backed by a hard commodity, like gold or silver, before the Fed drives us into a state of hyperinflation by it's continued creation of more money at the behest of a government that doesn't seem to understand to concept of financial responsibility.

If you doubt that the Fed creates money from nothing, I recommend you read The Creature from Jekyl Island. It will scare the socks off you. It's not about a fictional monster, but about the back room deals and shady politics that created the central reserve bank that is slowly killing our country's economy for the enrichment of fat-cat bankers and politicians.

In the mean time, if you're worried about financial collapse (and I think you should be) invest in silver dimes, silver dollars, whiskey and cigarettes, ammo, pins and sewing needles, tinned meat, and other trade goods for barter for when the excrement hits the whirling blades.
ocalhoun
mk12327 wrote:

I was just discussing this issue with a friend of mine last night and she was suggesting to me that the problem does not lie in the monetary system, but within the fundamentals of human character. Her theory is that most humans are greedy and selfish by nature and even if we reform the society, we will still end up with something that others will exploit.


That's quite a lot more accurate.
Even in a barter-only economy, there will still be exploiters and the exploited, perhaps even more so then.

Economic reform may well fix economic problems, but don't count on it fixing any other kind of problems.
Arty
That's why you invest in gold. Gold never loses its value. Gold is power.
hunnyhiteshseth
I think it is not the whole system at fault but the irresponsible government which ,as you put it, "create money out of thin air". If Fed or government just stick to replacing the currency which goes bad or at maximum creating currency to meet 'growth demand' then this system can work absolutely fine.
eday2010
I mke money, I spend money, I save money. I have no problem with that. I don't care that the $20 bill in my hand is arbitrary and oonly worth $20 because that is what the national bank says it is worth by printing 20 on it. I would rather have that than heavy gold coins or trading livestock.
iman
hey now. If you want to change the monetary system, the you'll be calling off the banking system, and you'll go back to the old days where banks are just for money storage. So we're gonna demolish the system because it gives everyone debts? This is like removing the internet because it spreads porn. Isn't this movement kinda like opposing technology?
ocalhoun
iman wrote:
Isn't this movement kinda like opposing technology?

Kinda, but not quite, as I'm not sure a system of financial organization could be called technology.
eday2010
The banking system only "gives" people debt when those people let it. You can financial institutions and not incur any debt. If you know how to save, manage, and invest your money, you can avoid debt pretty easily.
Parkour_Jarrod
Easiest way to fix it - stop making things to buy...

All we need in life is food, water, shelter/warmth.

Food - hunt, grow, fish.
Water - Go to a river.
Shelter - make a shelter with branches and leaves or find a cave.
Warmth - Fire.

Yeah i know we can't do the cave thing at the moment, because we are OVER-populated, so we kill of a few billion people... easy Twisted Evil
Parkour_Jarrod
ocalhoun wrote:
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:

Shelter - make a shelter with branches and leaves or find a cave.

Rolling Eyes

Can I at least make a log cabin or a tepee?
(Though actually, where I live I could find a nice cave, no problem.)


If you wanted Razz, but all im saying is that, we live in a complicated world and them complain because it complicated, so we make it more complicated by creating complicated things to simplify it causing more complications...

Basically, we need to live in a simpler era...
ocalhoun
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:

Shelter - make a shelter with branches and leaves or find a cave.

Rolling Eyes

Can I at least make a log cabin or a tepee?
(Though actually, where I live I could find a nice cave, no problem.)
deanhills
ocalhoun wrote:
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:

Shelter - make a shelter with branches and leaves or find a cave.

Rolling Eyes

Can I at least make a log cabin or a tepee?
(Though actually, where I live I could find a nice cave, no problem.)
Are there people in South Dekota who actually live in caves, and how safe would it be? I actually see a time in the future when people will occupy caves like that, and the caves divvied up into property, or is that a bit far-fetched?
ocalhoun
deanhills wrote:
ocalhoun wrote:
Parkour_Jarrod wrote:

Shelter - make a shelter with branches and leaves or find a cave.

Rolling Eyes

Can I at least make a log cabin or a tepee?
(Though actually, where I live I could find a nice cave, no problem.)
Are there people in South Dekota who actually live in caves, and how safe would it be? I actually see a time in the future when people will occupy caves like that, and the caves divvied up into property, or is that a bit far-fetched?

No, I've never heard of anybody living in caves around here, though there are plenty to go around.
(I have heard of people close by going 'back in time' - building a log cabin from scratch and mostly living off the land- something I wouldn't really mind doing either.)

The caves are not as dangerous as they're made out to be (what is?), they've been there a very, very long time, it's unlikely that they should collapse any time soon.
There are also many old mine shafts in the area though... those are very dangerous; they were often unsafe even when brand new.
Josso
Seen 1 and 2, interesting stuff - was like joining the dots up for me honestly
guissmo
I've heard about this movie, I think it's an awesome new perspective for us. Very Happy
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